Goblin Squad Member
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With the introduction of a new PoI structure, the Feudal Manor, I think it's time to ask
What do you think would be the use of a manor and it's control of a hex?
(Thanks Areks and Krow!)
1) Since control of territory is the founding motivation of large scale player interaction, I think we can agree that controlling a PoI Hex has great advantages.
2) Historically, a feudal manor was a self sustaining entity and many of which were owned by religious and monastic orders. Many were owned directly by the King. They provided the kingdom with many services, not just military support.
3) In PFO I cam see a feudal manor being the center for a trade organization (or a bandit king), specialist trades (like building siege engines), a source of religious authority (soul bind points), and (of course) Monasteries.
4) That being said, what are the rules for defending the manor after it's built? Can it have NPC guards and a PvP Window? Can it have enhanced defenses to use against character attack (assuming that, like watchtowers, manors can be destroyed by character attack) just as you can buy enhancements for hideouts and settlement buildings?
5) Companies, as centers of Influence can use that as a political tool to wield power. Settlements can manage and enhance Development Indexes as a way to wield power. What can a manor wield as a tool of power?
6) What will be that special something that would distinguish having a manor over having a hideout, an Inn, a watchtower, or a large building in a settlement?
What do you think?
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Goblin Squad Member
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Areks and Krow talk about it in Gobbocast Episode 12. The manor is mentioned in the last blog in the last section called A Place to Call My Own. In the podcast they were discussing notes made at GenCon and in an informal talk after the GW panel at GenGon. The Q&A after the panel is here.
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Goblin Squad Member
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I see. It sounds like it could be a good central hub for those who wish to live in a more rural community. I would imagine watchtowers would serve the function of a military outpost, and inns would be designed to cater for people traveling through / adventurers.
When I think of a feudal manor I think the estate of a noble house, with many laborers underneath them. I think it would be a good central hub for a region with longterm gathering operations such as farms.
This contrasts with settlements which I would view more as a hub for trade, industry, learning, culture etc.
I could see hexes controlled by watchtowers spawning more NPC guards, ones controlled by inns spawning more dungeons and exploration hotspots, and ones controlled by manors having more spots to build farms / more and faster regenerating resources.
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Goblin Squad Member
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Perhaps we could crowd forge these POI structures to have functions similar to settlements, but at a much more limited scale.
Feudal Manor (is. Monestary) could train just Lawful based skills and be limited to 1/10th the training slots of a settlement.
Forts could train just martial skills, also Lawful.
Hideouts could train just Chaotic skills, those associated most with banditry and or theft.
A Tower (Wizard's / Sorcerer's) could be Good, Neutral or Evil (but not Lawful or Chaotic).
Each of the POIs would be limited to just one aspect of alignment, still requiring the need for individuals to visit settlements for the other training that they may need.
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Goblin Squad Member
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Every alignment restriction should make sense. Wizards can be of any alignment so why not their towers?
I would prefer the structures used to claim hexes be more based on the purpose they are being claimed for, and less on the owners alignment.
Personally I feel hideouts should be placeable in any hex regardless of who owns it, and their presence should be difficult to detect, not something that is announced to everyone by having the hex suddenly be claimed without any visible structures. I mean, isn't the point of a hideout being hidden?
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Goblin Squad Member
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Every alignment restriction should make sense. Wizards can be of any alignment so why not their towers?
As long as it is remembered that "can be of any alignment" != "is of any alignment". I suspect a wizards tower full of necrotic goods will be of little use, training or otherwise, to a Good wizard (bet it makes a pretty fire though).
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Goblin Squad Member
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You should check out the podcast Andius... I actually gave you props in it for something you posted. ;)
I think minor facilities within POI's really expand and diversify what can be accomplished with the game. Having to be supported by a settlement, while it may be the best course, may be implausible at times and I am glad that GW sees and is anticipating that.
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Goblin Squad Member
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Every alignment restriction should make sense. Wizards can be of any alignment so why not their towers?
I would prefer the structures used to claim hexes be more based on the purpose they are being claimed for, and less on the owners alignment.
Personally I feel hideouts should be placeable in any hex regardless of who owns it, and their presence should be difficult to detect, not something that is announced to everyone by having the hex suddenly be claimed without any visible structures. I mean, isn't the point of a hideout being hidden?
There was nothing written about hideouts not being hidden. However, there is the possibility that a hideout can be hidden "in plain sight".
"Hey look there is a Bakery". "I can see it gets deliveries of yeast and flour, every week." "I can see and smell the bread leaving its doors every day." "Everyone knows Uncle Tony's". All of us know what he is up to as well.
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Goblin Squad Member
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1. Hideouts are hidden
2. Skill is needed to detect vs skill to hide escalation between the 2.
I think Hideouts must be placeable anywhere - surely that's an instance entrance like a dungeon finding? The reason to be flexible is to keep giving the sniffers the slip, like the quick rusty brown fox (though US foxes are grey aren't they?) So the bandits can continue to raid commerce, take damage eventually when they are sniffed out because they're causing too much damage on a route, overall manage a skilful small profit and plough some of that back into a new hideout elsewhere to begin the process anew and again give the sniffers the slip until they strike again. "El Zorro" = The Fox!
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Goblin Squad Member
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2) Historically, a feudal manor was a self sustaining entity and many of which were owned by religious and monastic orders. Many were owned directly by the King. They provided the kingdom with many services, not just military support.
If The Manor has extra-settlement alliance eg a powerful religious order or other, then it seems more defensible:
1) Removes direct "enemies" of other settlement conflict?
2) Reduces direct "enemies" to the Arch-rival of said organization only?
3) Has a powerful ally to back it up if it's attacked?
Maybe that is the best fit for an independent structure sucking up a valuable POI that is covetted by many other larger groups?
Additionally any settlement that has said religious order having political power in that settlement can also rely on them too?
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Goblin Squad Member
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Every alignment restriction should make sense. Wizards can be of any alignment so why not their towers?
I would prefer the structures used to claim hexes be more based on the purpose they are being claimed for, and less on the owners alignment.
Personally I feel hideouts should be placeable in any hex regardless of who owns it, and their presence should be difficult to detect, not something that is announced to everyone by having the hex suddenly be claimed without any visible structures. I mean, isn't the point of a hideout being hidden?
Alternately, what if each POI had a logical domain(s). These domains offer a place of training, both for and against. To illustrate with a previous example, I said a wizard tower of necrotic goods would not be a place where a Good wizard could find training...however, a wizard tower POI with Death as (one of) its domain(s), would. An evil wizard can find training for Necromancy and a Good wizard can find training for anti-Necromancy magic.
For another example, inns for instance might have the Community Domain, they would be a place to get training with social skills...and anti-social skills.
Expanding this, a POI could be limited further to specific training by issuing it both domain(s) and patron(s). The Inn above could have Community Domain limited by a single Good Patron (the patron would be acquired and kept through rituals/donations). Since there is only a Good patron, the training available would only be Good in nature.
A different inn with a more cosmopolitan atmosphere could work to acquire multiple patrons of different alignments, empowering more training opportunities...they can then sell.
This could be expanded to in-settlement facilities, perhaps making the "donation/ritual" easier and cheaper to facilitate in a town of like alignment. Gaining and keeping a Good aligned patron for your forge is much easier in a Good town than in an Evil one. This could provide a possible counterbalance to the financial benefits to Neutral settlements.
Anyways, just tossing out ideas. The concept of domains already exists in PF and technically everything is suppose to fall under a domain. New domains could even be added as the devs are able. Acquiring domains and patrons...and keeping those patrons just seems like a sandbox tool mechanic that would add ongoing content.
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Goblin Squad Member
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1. Hideouts are hidden
2. Skill is needed to detect vs skill to hide escalation between the 2.I think Hideouts must be placeable anywhere - surely that's an instance entrance like a dungeon finding? The reason to be flexible is to keep giving the sniffers the slip, like the quick rusty brown fox (though US foxes are grey aren't they?) So the bandits can continue to raid commerce, take damage eventually when they are sniffed out because they're causing too much damage on a route, overall manage a skilful small profit and plough some of that back into a new hideout elsewhere to begin the process anew and again give the sniffers the slip until they strike again. "El Zorro" = The Fox!
Agreed. I think a hideout enterance should be placeable anywhere you character can stand that has enough solid land under it to build one in. That could be in the back room of a bakery, the shadows of a dark alley, deep within the woods, or right in the middle of an enemy fort.
They should only be detectable when standing almost directly ontop of them. So unless you are actually dumb enough to build your hideout in an area people will be walking over all the time, the best way to find a hideout will be trailing someone back to it, or at least identifying the general area it's occupants are coming from.
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Goblin Squad Member
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It would be nice for a settlement to allow a company to run a farm, or a ranch (for breeding horses, goats, sheep, or other herd animal), an orchard, a lumber mill, a grist mill, a fish pond, a glass factory, a tailor/weaver shop, a stone quarry, a copper mine or iron mine and the associated smelter, a gem mine and a gem cutting operation, a spice and herb farm and a shop that processes the yield. Any of those things would be a great function for a small company to operate. It opens all sorts of possibilities for small to medium sized groups.
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Goblin Squad Member
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| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
It would be nice for a settlement to allow a company to run a farm, or a ranch (for breeding horses, goats, sheep, or other herd animal), an orchard, a lumber mill, a grist mill, a fish pond, a glass factory, a tailor/weaver shop, a stone quarry, a copper mine or iron mine and the associated smelter, a gem mine and a gem cutting operation, a spice and herb farm and a shop that processes the yield. Any of those things would be a great function for a small company to operate. It opens all sorts of possibilities for small to medium sized groups.
All this. I think this excites me more than PvP atm. It's the functional 'mundane' (to borrow an idea I saw elsewhere) that gives life to the exciting stuff *disembodied head flies through the air*.
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Goblin Squad Member
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I think this excites me more than PvP atm.
I couldn't agree more.
It was quite an eye-opener going back to some of my earliest posts recently and seeing clearly that the single most important thing that grabbed my attention about PFO was the way that non-consensual PvP was going to add meaning to all the other things that we want to do in-game, and that Ryan was serious about including systems to discourage the kind of misbehavior that has turned so many people off to other non-consensual PvP games.