Have other players control someone's summoned monster. Give the fighter a dire tiger to play with along with his own character.
Have each summoned creature automatically roll average damage? To save on damage rolls?
This seems more like something the players need to work on than you IMO. Perhaps you could encourage them to think ahead about what they intend to do with the summoned creatures. Plan out attacks so that when the turn comes around they know exactly what they're going to do and can push through it.
Play a different RPG. Seriously, the only game out there slower than 3rd edition D&D is 4th edition D&D.
Well, and the game which shall not be named.
Well, and the game which shall not be named.
Ponyfinder?
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Ponyfinder?
Well, and the game which shall not be named.
There's an easy fix to this, assuming you trust the players that are summoning the monsters. Have them decide on their actions and roll their stuff ahead of time.
That way when it comes to Summoner Bob's turn, he can tell you his 3 tigers attacked A, A, and B, respectively, and rolled X, Y, and Z. Once you tell him which ones hit, he can then tell you how much damage they dealt.
With players you trust, this can speed things up tremendously. At the end of our last campaign when we were 20th-level I did all the math for damage ahead of time, then just rolled my much-easier-to-calculate hit roll on my turn. If I hit, I then had the damage already worked out.
Obviously if one or more of your players is sketchy, this is not a viable option.
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I had a gm who got so fed up with long turns that he started breaking out a sand timer. Know what you're doing ahead of time and you get one minute to execute it. It encouraged players to know the rules for their characters and think ahead.
Average damage is a good time saving option, I often use it with monsters when I DM an encounter with lots of monsters.
Ban the spell except in exceptional circumstance like summoning a djinni. It's a boredom inducer. Make each player just control one thing in the game, their character.
Play a different RPG. Seriously, the only game out there slower than 3rd edition D&D is 4th edition D&D.
Well, and the game which shall not be named.
You've obviously never played Hero System. Combats there can go on for hours, with just the PCs vs one BBEG.
I've listened to a six hour, two-session superhero brawl. It did have 17 supers each with unique powers going at it though.
But yeah, have them pre roll, or multi roll with average damage might help.
Our rule is when you summon a creature, you get the standard one in the book so there is no need to roll hit points etc.
The summoner app is really handy, btw.
Talk to them about it. They've probably noticed the slowdown as well.
Options:
-summons do average damage
-summons must have printed stats
-summons all do the same thing (per each caster)
-summons are all the same creature
Sorry, RL issues.
More options:
-all summons after the first one will aid the first one
-d20 rolls for summoned creatures are done in advance. Just roll a list of numbers and apply them in order
-tell PCs what the AC of monsters is, so they know if they hit.
-have directing summons take a move action from the summoner. Otherwise, they just keep doing what they were doing.
I have a summoning druid that I intend to use. I'm going to use color coded dice and have the stats ready to go, so I know exactly what I'm adding. ALso, I'm using the summoner app because it makes life so much easier.
Play a different RPG. Seriously, the only game out there slower than 3rd edition D&D is 4th edition D&D.
Well, and the game which shall not be named.
You've obviously never played Hero System. Combats there can go on for hours, with just the PCs vs one BBEG.
Ugh, I like to forget the Hero System, and it doesn't have the same comedic sting as...that other game.
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Gurps melees with high skill fighters can degenerate pretty quickly into endless parry fests where no one can hit anything. But yeah, the more minis you add to a table the slower the table goes in general.
Some things that help:
preprinted summons stat blocks, so people don't have to flip through the book looking them up.
roll to hit and damage together. (here is where color coded dice come in.)
Share the summons around the group.
Could it be that they are summoning a lot of low level (and thus low effect) monsters to fight for them to minimize their risk? It would mean that the monsters take for ever to end combat because they don't do much each round, but the BBEG has to kill them off one a round while the heros pepper him from range. In this case start throwing things at them that do area damage. Show them that this is not as viable an attack as they would like.
I have a party that loves to summon monsters. In our last combat there were 10 summoned creatures running around the combat at the end of the fight.I don't mind that the spell is powerful - I'm not looking for ways to nerf the spell or reduce its effectiveness. I'm looking for ways to speed up combat.
I hate that the players spend so much time rolling dice and moving their monsters around. It just feels like it takes too long.
Please - give me a way to speed up our combats.
Do your players feel it takes too long? If not, and this is how they're having fun, this may simply be a situation in which you just have to accept that's that style of play for the table. If there are some players who feel the same way you do, you should step in and hash this out with them all and come up with a mutually agreed upon balance. The solution might be handing off summoned monsters to non-summoning characters so everyone has some to play. It might be simplifying the tactical choices of the summoned monsters so there's less careful grid maneuvering. In any event, you need buy-in from everybody, not just impose a solution of your own.
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This is weird to me, because I thought it was the gm's job to do all the rolling. My understanding as, beyond telling them "kill this" you had no control.
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First off - thank you for the advice.
The players don't feel like combat is taking too long, in fact they keep arguing that the combats are shorter since the enemies die faster.
I think having each subsequent monster aid the first, and requiring a move action to direct each creature after the first might make things faster as long as the players were pre-rolling their attacks.
Thanks again -
Blaze
Lol, it seems you don't really have a problem. The players just want enemies that don't die that fast. Also, all those summons make lovely fireball targets.
Just use more powerful enemies. Preferably ones that have protection from good/law/chaos up so the summons can't approach them.
Seriously, how did no one already suggest that?
This is weird to me, because I thought it was the gm's job to do all the rolling. My understanding as, beyond telling them "kill this" you had no control.
That is a legitimate way of playing it, but most GMs delegate the task to the summoner. It's easier and gives the players more to do. The GM can always overrule the summoner from making a summoned animal behave too intelligently.
** spoiler omitted **Ponyfinder?
Well, and the game which shall not be named.
And Roll Master. Painfully slow. But deadly;)
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Preferably ones that have protection from good/law/chaos up so the summons can't approach them.
Seriously, how did no one already suggest that?
This.
Simply have the enemies use a first level spell which will not let summoned creatures touch them.
Or Communal Prot from Good/Evil/etc which will protect the entire monster group... for the price of a second level spell slot.
Imo, he easiest solution to summoned monsters..
1) let the players control their actions.
2) the summoner must have all creatures he wants to summon for that game, on index cards ( all relevant stats ) so as to minimize all looking thru books
3) make sure to talk to them beforehand, so that all creatures summoned the players are familiar with... spells/abilities/feats/ etc.
This should speed things up immensely.
The Summoner type caster is a great archetype, but needs alot of preparation up front to streamline it for all players.
Protection from (Alignment) only stops summons from the appropriate alignment as I understand it-- so those dire lions and elementals are still safe.
Average damage seems like a fantastic idea. I'm running into this problem myself and will definitely try that.
Make a "one roll" rule, and have the players invest in a d20 + damage dice for each creature they intend to have in-play. I do this and it's very quick. I use color-coded dice too, so I can make one roll for multiple summoned creatures.
Tell your players firmly and politely, letting them know this is a "great idea" so that they will get behind it.
The trick a friend used was the material component dodge. Summoning and wild shape spell casting requires disposable 'tokens'. Our druid invested several ranks in Craft (wood craving) and carried blocks of wood harvested from fallen trees in her bag.
I run that there's a limited time to do your move, rapidly curtailing over-summoning. Nothing speeds some up faster than running out of time.
** spoiler omitted **Ponyfinder?
Well, and the game which shall not be named.
You mean you don't enjoy randomly generating the circumference of your character's anus? ;)
Condensing the number of steps your players need to take in combat is the key. If I were GMing the group in question, I'd start by putting all of the summons on the same initiative. Have the first thing summoned roll and then bring any new summons in at that initiative. Sure, your players are likely to respond by summoning high init. monsters first, but initiative is only really powerful in the first round anyway. I'd also have the player controlling the summons roll all similar monsters together. If they're summoned by the same spell, they're identical anyway.
On the NPCs' side of things, crank up the area spells.
1.) All summons go on Summoner's Initiative. LOADS faster.
2.) The average damage suggestion is a solid one.
3.) Perhaps use a dice roller app for the summons. Just copy-pasta the attack bonuses multiple times, roll 'em all, see which ones hit which guy, and GO. Will speed things up a lot if you don't have the problem of "We've got 10 creatures but only 6 d20s".