[Demon Queen's Enclave] Questions

4th Edition

So, this is a thread for questions for the pre-published 4E adventure Demon Queen's Enclave.

I'm likely not going to use it much myself, but I figured it wouldn't hurt to have a place that people could use instead of a different thread for every question they'd want.

Honestly, I'm planning on pretty much stealing the stat blocks and a few elements of the quests, mushing it together with my own stuff and a couple of other prepublished things and making my own deal, but the over-arching plot of the heroic and epic tiers remains intact, so there's that.

ANYway, on to my question.

Spoilers ahead, so I'm tagging it.

that one weapon, yeah, you know the one, GMs:

So, Nightbringer.

the adventure, page, 25 wrote:
"the sword plays a role in future adventures in this series"

I... have no idea what "adventures" because the P-series only has three and this is the second one. So do they just mean "Assault on Nightwyrm Fortress"? Because I've been scanning that adventure and I'm not seeing it directly referenced. And if they mean the E-series, it doesn't seem referenced in Death's Reach that I noticed (I've had that one for quite a while and nothing to do with it). I've only lightly read Kingdom of the Ghouls, but by that point Nightbringer isn't a tremendously powerful threat (or ally) to a full party (as they'd be level 24 by then), much less in Prince of Undeath.

It's quite possible that I'm just missing a paragraph about it somewhere (right now I'm low on sleep and my concentration is shot), but it's making it difficult to plan stuff out.

Anyway... does anyone know? Was the idea just scrapped? Thanks in advance!

Well I'll say I like your mine for ideas and use your own stuff approach. Its release date of 2008 sets off alarm bells for me. I mean their is a shortage of good 4E adventures to begin with but they certainly did not start on the right foot and things tend to be better more toward the end of the editions life rather then the beginning.

Jeremy Mac Donald wrote:
Well I'll say I like your mine for ideas and use your own stuff approach. Its release date of 2008 sets off alarm bells for me. I mean their is a shortage of good 4E adventures to begin with but they certainly did not start on the right foot and things tend to be better more toward the end of the editions life rather then the beginning.

4E and Us - the story of terrible decisions:
Yeah, well... the original goal (in order to give 4E a solid chance) was to use their pre-published stuff to let them show off their own system (I presumed at the time they had decent system mastery of the new system that I lacked*).


By the time we finished Thunderspire everyone - everyone - in my group hated 4E. (Some of the Forgotten Realms stuff and a few other decisions they made just exacerbated that.)

I did my best, made the heartiest effort I could to make it entertaining while staying in the pre-published mods, and by gum we all gave it a go but it failed on us.

Similarly, we've given it a hearty go several times with pre-published stuff and home brew stuff (that inevitably begins ignoring the rules outright) and the latter has been immensely more fun than the former every time. It's been even better when we mine for ideas.

In any event, I'm thinking of dusting off that old game and finishing the story with my wife (since we live half a state away and haven't seen the rest of the group, they're unlikely to be joining us).

To that end, I'm looking into the rest of the path/story and am trying to finish it well.

To that end...

* Boy was I wrong.

... I'm trying to tie up some loose ends. It's... not working very well, because I keep coming up with holes and dead ends. Like this sword.

Reference Alarm Bells, from what I understand this particular module is supposedly one of the best in this series.

King of the Trollhaunt Warrens looks pretty decent. Pyramid of Shadows (along with Thunderspire Peak) is basically a dungeon crawl made of equal parts hate and suck (with a few nifty story ideas shoved in), while this one seems pretty decent. The story parts (few as they are) in Nightwyrm fortress are pretty good, though the actual plot and ultimate adventure seems kind of meh. Meanwhile Death's Reach is a terrible name, a confusing twist on the story, and the entire point is, more or less, "Whelp that happened. Oh, and some minor information."

Kingdom of Ghouls and Prince of Undeath do pretty well story-wise, from what I've seen (though still a bit dungeon crawly for me), but I really like the plot (and had set that up long ago) and would like to see it through.

Anyway. /rant

Oh, and anyone on the sword? :)


So! Answering my own questions finally (when I finally had the time)!

Here thar be spoilers!

  • In "The Demon Queen's Enclave" the final villain holds a weapon (an artifact) called Nightbringer - a sentient artifact sword sacred to Orcus that hates Orcus. Nightbringer has the ability to eventually transform into a primordial beast.
  • You have three options with Nightbringer, although one is not obvious: 1) Stab an evil Eye with it (severing Orcus' hold over an ancient evil location; it is ambiguous what occurs to Nightbringer then), 2) handing it over to Orcus (who vanishes with it), 3) keeping it (this is not an obvious "solution", as two voices demand the two opposing things and there are no notes to clarify what occurs if this happens).
  • As previously noted, this is called out as having a "future role" to play, which is revealed in...
  • ... Kingdom of the Ghouls (three adventures later), which varies based on what happened. If it was 1) stabbed in the eye, it apparently (from this text) is supposed to vanish at that time, but "works its way back to the PCs" (which causes me to question why it vanishes) and apparently seeks to stay there; 2) was handed to Orcus, it ends up in the hands of a baddy in this adventure, eventually transforms into a monster in that encounter and attempts to kill the PCs and ultimately Orcus; 3) kept, it seeks to make its way to, and "join with" (whatever that means) Timesus* (which may be the same end-goal if it "works its way back to the PCs".
  • Regardless of what happens, Nightbringer is never mentioned again, not even in Prince of Undeath when you face Timesus (or it's talking about you facing Timesus - there is nothing describing how Timesus reacts to the idea of Nightbringer, and it's ambiguous whether Timesus is happy, furious, or something else to be under the "power" of Orcus).

* Timesus is a Primordial that plays a role in the next adventure and that has been the "point" of these last two adventures. The reason Nightbringer wants to "join with" Timesus is that it, too, was once a Primordial, until the gods sealed it away and turned it into a weapon.Nightbringer wants to destroy Orcus first and then other demon lords and gods.

So anyway, that's the information I've located across the five adventures I've checked in that path. It's quite possible I missed something, so if someone else notices that I have, please, by all means, let me know!

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