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It is not like they did not know Gen Con is coming. As a matter of fact it come[s] this time of year every year.
So while I understand this problem...I also think it is something Pazio could improve on...having learned from previous years.
Supply chain logistics like this are tough for small companies to manage and do well. To meet everyone's expectations and actually get subscribers their products prior to GenCon, they would likely have had to plan to get all (or at least some) of their products in by mid-July and start shipping then. If they wanted to stagger the product release and just release orders that contained those products that were released "early," then multi-product subscribers would be upset.
To top it off, it sounds like they're using a home-grown order processing system that's not terribly quick (if it's taking hours to generate subscription orders). We also don't know how organized their warehouse is - e.g., do subscribers who add products to their orders get them "last" sometimes because some products are buried under others? Fixing these sorts of things isn't always easy, especially for a small company. That's not to say they shouldn't do it, or that they shouldn't have planned better...just that it may or may not be tough for them to do so. It might not be a simple fix for them once they're aware that there is or will be a problem.
Just curious is it a common practice to receive a new release from paizo after the retail day? Just wondering cause i am first time subscriber and so far package is sched to arrive two days after retail. I understand Gencon and all but If they are gonna have it available for Gencon pickup why not try to ship to Subscribers so they receive it before retail date too.
Thanks for listning
(p.s. Just anxious to play pathfinder adventure card game.)
RPG Superstar 2009 Top 32, 2010 Top 8
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My shipments normally cut it close, getting the physical copy prior to the street date.
They didn't this time, I'd point out, but that doesn't surprise me with GenCon and all.
Wait for the next expansion to your subscription to come out, and then you'll have a better idea of 'time to target'.
@Mike6976 - This is a rare occurrence. I usually have my physical books a few days prior to the retail release date.
With the plethora of product this month added to GenCon (and if you added anything 'extra' like the Special Edition Visions of WAR book) it's taking twice as long as normal for Paizo to complete the subscription shipping.
Barring any unexpected circumstances, you will see a more 'normal' timeframe for shipping next month.
Thanks for the info was hoping that was the case lol like most of u i refresh the ups page several times only to see depature scan was 9pm on 16th fingers crossed.
Thanks again
Mike
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Since they knew they were going to be late they should have made sure the PDF's would be sent out on time or earlier as a way to apologize to the subscribers.
And as noted elsewhere Brent, they can't due to the credit card agreements.
Hogwash. Once a credit card is authorized successfully, the biller is guaranteed to get paid. Even if the authorization later drops off and all the money is spent on other things, the entire point of an authorization is to allow the money to be taken out of the account anyway (even if that would leave a negative or overlimit balance).
The only consideration here is what to do with customers who have their accounts authorized and attempt to cancel orders *after* they receive their PDFs. But first things first - how does Paizo currently remedy customers who buy PDFs, gain access to them, and then ask to cancel their order? Do they just give them their money back even though they received the product? I'm guessing not. This would be the same situation.
If the customer was insistent, it wouldn't be difficult for the Paizo Customer Service team to provide another option - namely, refunding the difference between the subscription cost and the PDF cost after the authorization turns into an actual charge on the account. One way or another the customers would have gotten their PDFs, so they should pay for them.
At this point, if Paizo decides to hold back releasing PDFs to subscribers until after shipment it will be a choice to favor customers inclined to cancel orders and give customer service a really hard time over their loyal customers and subscribers who have been with them since the beginning.
tl;dr: Releasing PDFs immediately upon a successful card authorization would not cost Paizo anything, would not open them up to any financial risk, and would make their subscribers far more happy. So why not?
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There's a release date and it would be annoying to other retailers if subscribers were to get their PDFs too far ahead of the street date - it would further incentivise subscriptions and undercut the "buzz" of release, since when a book hit the shelves it would be old news, having the details discussed online for weeks prior.
They try to get us our books on the release date. That means they generally give us access to the PDFs early. However, don't actually aim (or promise) to get subscribers their PDFs early, that's just how it usually works out.
Most months we get our PDFs early. One month of the year, some of us have to wait a few days after release.
Since they knew they were going to be late they should have made sure the PDF's would be sent out on time or earlier as a way to apologize to the subscribers.And as noted elsewhere Brent, they can't due to the credit card agreements.Hogwash. Once a credit card is authorized successfully, the biller is guaranteed to get paid. Even if the authorization later drops off and all the money is spent on other things, the entire point of an authorization is to allow the money to be taken out of the account anyway (even if that would leave a negative or overlimit balance).
The only consideration here is what to do with customers who have their accounts authorized and attempt to cancel orders *after* they receive their PDFs. But first things first - how does Paizo currently remedy customers who buy PDFs, gain access to them, and then ask to cancel their order? Do they just give them their money back even though they received the product? I'm guessing not. This would be the same situation.
If the customer was insistent, it wouldn't be difficult for the Paizo Customer Service team to provide another option - namely, refunding the difference between the subscription cost and the PDF cost after the authorization turns into an actual charge on the account. One way or another the customers would have gotten their PDFs, so they should pay for them.
At this point, if Paizo decides to hold back releasing PDFs to subscribers until after shipment it will be a choice to favor customers inclined to cancel orders and give customer service a really hard time over their loyal customers and subscribers who have been with them since the beginning.
tl;dr: Releasing PDFs immediately upon a successful card authorization would not cost Paizo anything, would not open them up to any financial risk, and would make their subscribers far more happy. So why not?
Because, as noted earlier in this thread, it is a violation of the agreement with the credit card companies. Some companies are willing to ignore this restriction; Paizo is not.
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There's a release date and it would be annoying to other retailers if subscribers were to get their PDFs too far ahead of the street date - it would further incentivise subscriptions and undercut the "buzz" of release, since when a book hit the shelves it would be old news, having the details discussed online for weeks prior.
They try to get us our books on the release date. That means they generally give us access to the PDFs early. However, don't actually aim (or promise) to get subscribers their PDFs early, that's just how it usually works out.
Most months we get our PDFs early. One month of the year, some of us have to wait a few days after release.
No, that's not acceptable when that is the point of the subscription. They tap my account and take the cash, the PDF's should be available in my downloads (which they did on Friday). People ordering them from the online store should not get them before the subscribers who have already been tapped.
Because, as noted earlier in this thread, it is a...
Actually they can tap a credit account up to 30 days before shipping. At least that was the law last time I had to deal with a retailer last year. Good customer service is tapping the account when they ship.
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No, that's not acceptable when that is the point of the subscription. They tap my account and take the cash, the PDF's should be available in my downloads (which they did on Friday). People ordering them from the online store should not get them before the subscribers who have already been tapped.There's a release date and it would be annoying to other retailers if subscribers were to get their PDFs too far ahead of the street date - it would further incentivise subscriptions and undercut the "buzz" of release, since when a book hit the shelves it would be old news, having the details discussed online for weeks prior.
They try to get us our books on the release date. That means they generally give us access to the PDFs early. However, don't actually aim (or promise) to get subscribers their PDFs early, that's just how it usually works out.
Most months we get our PDFs early. One month of the year, some of us have to wait a few days after release.
It's not the point of a subscription.
Some people subscribe expecting to get the pdfs early (and often do) but that isn't the undertaking, nor the goal.
If they've taken cash from you for a subscription then the PDFs should be available and I'd contact customer service about it. (Although I don't know what you mean by "tapped" - if you mean authorised well then no, that's not taking payment).
Actually they can tap a credit account up to 30 days before shipping. At least that was the law last time I had to deal with a retailer last year. Good customer service is tapping the account when they ship.
Because, as noted earlier in this thread, it is a...
I've never dealt with these rules myself, so I'm just passing on what Paizo tells us.
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No, that's not acceptable when that is the point of the subscription. They tap my account and take the cash, the PDF's should be available in my downloads (which they did on Friday). People ordering them from the online store should not get them before the subscribers who have already been tapped.There's a release date and it would be annoying to other retailers if subscribers were to get their PDFs too far ahead of the street date - it would further incentivise subscriptions and undercut the "buzz" of release, since when a book hit the shelves it would be old news, having the details discussed online for weeks prior.
They try to get us our books on the release date. That means they generally give us access to the PDFs early. However, don't actually aim (or promise) to get subscribers their PDFs early, that's just how it usually works out.
Most months we get our PDFs early. One month of the year, some of us have to wait a few days after release.
You got yours on Friday....Grrrr. Still nothing.
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At this point, if Paizo decides to hold back releasing PDFs to subscribers until after shipment it will be a choice to favor customers inclined to cancel orders and give customer service a really hard time over their loyal customers and subscribers who have been with them since the beginning.
tl;dr: Releasing PDFs immediately upon a successful card authorization would not cost Paizo anything, would not open them up to any financial risk, and would make their subscribers far more happy. So why not?
No, that's not acceptable when that is the point of the subscription. They tap my account and take the cash, the PDF's should be available in my downloads (which they did on Friday). People ordering them from the online store should not get them before the subscribers who have already been tapped.
You're both missing a crucial element in this. You're not paying for the pdf, you're paying for the physical book in the subscription.
The free pdf is just an added bonus and incentive.So you're not entitled to receive access to your free pdf before you pay for the physical book. That happens when your card is charged, which it is when the physical book is shipped.
If you're mad about the holding "charge" then you should take that up with your bank and VISA/Mastercard. That has nothing to do with Paizo.
Then something has gone wrong - you should contact Customer Service via phone, an email or a thread here in the forum.
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Because, as noted earlier in this thread, it is a a violation of the agreement with the credit card companies. Some companies are willing to ignore this restriction; Paizo is not.
Because, you know, making digital products available for download is somehow under the purview of credit card companies. Having worked for both a bank and credit card company, I will say it again: Hogwash.
At the end of the day, this thread isn't about customers being entitled - it is about giving Paizo a chance to be the best place to get our books. Many subscribers may choose simply to cancel their subscription order and go buy their books at their FLGS. Instead many of us are choosing to voice our concerns. I'm also sharing an actionable option to satisfy consumer demand while not putting Paizo in a bad spot (as far as I can tell from my vantage point).
The other option is to simply expand the shipping department to avoid these delays; I'm sure Paizo has considered this, but it would entail additional financial cost. My option does not, but would pacify those of us who just want to see the new goodies as soon as possible. So Paizo? What do you think?
What is your suggestion exactly?
I subscribe to the AP line and a few weeks before they charge for and send me my book they make a free PDF available to me?
It's also worth noting that Paizo dont want their online store to be so much better than everywhere else that none of the other distribution channels function.
Every extra incentive they give to subscribers is another reason for local game stores to get annoyed with them. They already provide a discounted, usually early service with a complimentary PDF. Making that PDF available a few weeks ahead of street date is yet more reason. There's a balance to be reached beyond making the customer happy.
What is your suggestion exactly?
I subscribe to the AP line and a few weeks before they charge for and send me my book they make a free PDF available to me?
How about at the beginning of the shipment period they make the PDFs available to all subscribers who's cards they have processed?
What is your suggestion exactly?
I subscribe to the AP line and a few weeks before they charge for and send me my book they make a free PDF available to me?
How about at the beginning of the shipment period they make the PDFs available to all subscribers who's cards they have processed?
The cards aren't processed until the physical book is marked for shipping.
The cards aren't processed until the physical book is marked for shipping.What is your suggestion exactly?
I subscribe to the AP line and a few weeks before they charge for and send me my book they make a free PDF available to me?
How about at the beginning of the shipment period they make the PDFs available to all subscribers who's cards they have processed?
My BOA card has processed for 3xx.xx on 2013/08/15 (Temp Auth / Pending Payment) Would be nice if Paizo would give us the option of paying fully for them so we could receive the PDF files.
Also understand that those who get there orders shipped out this Thursday / Friday have a good chance of not receiving the package until after the Labor Day holiday.
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What is your suggestion exactly?
I subscribe to the AP line and a few weeks before they charge for and send me my book they make a free PDF available to me?
How about at the beginning of the shipment period they make the PDFs available to all subscribers who's cards they have processed?
I think there are two issues with this - the minor one being the potential for fraud (ie they authorise a card, give the subscriber a PDF, then a week later go to process the charge to find out it's been declined through lack of funds and the subscriber has already downloaded everything).
Of more importance though is that they are contractually obligated to not charge your card until they ship the product. (Remember that with a subscription you're buying the physical book, not the PDF - that's a free gift).
Ok I think I have a reason to gripe. I pay for my subsciption via store credit. Which I get by purchasing gift certificts ahead of time. I do this because it is easier on me to enough funds in my account.
Now they deduct the total from my store credit when they send the first e-mail to me...so I really have already paid for it in every way.
So why do I have to wait for them to ship it? I know it is probably because it is a easier on their system most likely...and I am trying to be patient as possible about it. And this is a very small negative in what has been overwhelmingly positive experience with Pazio.
But still when people will probably have the pdf a week before me? Or heck at this rate people will have the physical book about two weeks before me...all I am saying is there has to be a way to improve their system. I don't think that is such a harsh thing to say...anything can be improved after all.
Ok I think I have a reason to gripe. I pay for my subsciption via store credit. Which I get by purchasing gift certificts ahead of time. I do this because it is easier on me to enough funds in my account.
Now they deduct the total from my store credit when they send the first e-mail to me...so I really have already paid for it in every way.
So why do I have to wait for them to ship it? I know it is probably because it is a easier on their system most likely...
Don't get me wrong, I can fully understand the frustration (and agree you have a reason).
No doubt you're entirely correct about the cause for the store credit anomaly - building an exception into the system for the odd corner case (like a handful of people once a year) that it would apply to is probably not worth the effort - especially when you consider that every exception would result in some delay to the processing of standard orders.
For example, it seems to me that given the relevant orders were picked ages ago, those lucky enough to pick up their subscriptions at Gen Con have actually done those of us who are still waiting for our books a favor. If they'd been dumped in with the rest of the subscribers, it would no doubt have taken even longer than two weeks to process August subscriptions.
For example, it seems to me that given the relevant orders were picked ages ago, those lucky enough to pick up their subscriptions at Gen Con have actually done those of us who are still waiting for our books a favor. If they'd been dumped in with the rest of the subscribers, it would no doubt have taken even longer than two weeks to process August subscriptions.
I actually think that is the reason for the delay...they had to give those people priority...which changed their normal system of doing things.
For example, it seems to me that given the relevant orders were picked ages ago, those lucky enough to pick up their subscriptions at Gen Con have actually done those of us who are still waiting for our books a favor. If they'd been dumped in with the rest of the subscribers, it would no doubt have taken even longer than two weeks to process August subscriptions.I actually think that is the reason for the delay...they had to give those people priority...which changed their normal system of doing things.
But they did it all quite early (from memory you had to notify them of a GenCon pickup by the 31st July). It was a week from then before the subscription spawning commenced. Once the subscription run began in earnest, I suspect all of those orders were out the door and out of the way.
I confess I've never heard Paizo speak to that issue specifically, though so I'm just speculating.
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Soooo, while I have Mythic Adventures on hero lab and bought a copy of the pdf for one of my players (on his account), I am still waiting. Oh well I recently imported Dragons Crown so I am quite busy^^
On a more constructive note, how about the following suggestion:
Let subscribers (or anyone really) buy the pdf once it is available to the public, and once their shipment is going out, refund them the price of the pdf as store credit.
This way some subscribers would still get the pdf earlier, but no one would be annoyed that the pdf is available to non-subscribers.
It could work, but honestly this only really affects most subscribers at Gen Con, and while this punishes us oversea customers double (cant really go the Gen Con and have to wait even longer for our products)it is still quite a minor problem.
