Goblin Squad Member
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I can live with that, but to be fair, shouldn't they have some advantages as well? After all, we can see people throughout real history who in all actuality could be considered any of the evil alignments and forged whole empires built on the blood, sweat and tears of the unfortunate.The advantage is they don't care if their alignment slips when they do nasty things to other people. Freedom from self-restraint.
I think what I will find most interesting is how well people are going to stick to their alignments/reps once someone else has the resources and land they want. As Bluddwolf pointed out, I think once these resources and land become more and more rare, "good"characters are going to face some real moral issues as to whether or not killing other people trying to settle somewhere they themselves wanted to settle is ok.You seem to already be aware of this, as evidenced in the above quote, although you're coming at it from the point of view that it's impossible to resist doing those nasty things.
No matter how you look at things, I win the day, because all I need is one copper looted and the adventure that led to taking it.What about looking at it from an opportunity cost point of view? Seems you could achieve so much more than a couple muggings and a few pennies to show for your efforts.
No, I absolutely do not think it is impossible to resist these things. But while often people enjoy the IDEA of playing Lawful Good, in the end that piece of land looks really, really good, and I think we will have a lot of self-justification for open warfare against "evil" when it will be more about the acquisition of wealth. Don't get me wrong, Valtorious will be a LG Fighter or Paladin, but I have decided early on that the acquisition of wealth for the sake of wealth won't be my primary concern, rather it being good deeds done for the sake of doing good.
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Goblin Squad Member
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So we want territory A held by Good Guys A. If they give it to us we'll help them get territory B from Bad Guys B, and pay them 500k gold.
We've just acquired territory held by a friendly faction without violating our morals.
Another method is that both you and Good Guys A realize the subtitle of the game is "Expand or Decline", and you agree to form a player nation from your two settlements.
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Goblin Squad Member
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Another method is that both you and Good Guys A realize the subtitle of the game is "Expand or Decline", and you agree to form a player nation from your two settlements.So we want territory A held by Good Guys A. If they give it to us we'll help them get territory B from Bad Guys B, and pay them 500k gold.
We've just acquired territory held by a friendly faction without violating our morals.
And if they say NO?
Good Guys A become Bad Guys A because one of their members looked at us funny. They must be intending to attack us, so lets just take what we want from them.
Na, will never happen.
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Goblin Squad Member
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No matter how you look at things, I win the day, because all I need is one copper looted and the adventure that led to taking it.What about looking at it from an opportunity cost point of view? Seems you could achieve so much more than a couple muggings and a few pennies to show for your efforts.
You missed the adventure that led to it. It is not how much I steal, but the thrill of doing it. Could I make a lot more if I became a gatherer or a merchant? Sure, I probably could.....
But, that is about as exciting to me as ice mining in high sec in EVE Online. Sit there, start your strip miners and read a book, barely glancing at the screen for more than a moment in 45 or more minutes.
It is far too much fun to just take what someone else spent 45 minutes of mindless, boring mining in getting. Then selling it for less than market value, so that I move it quickly, and have the coin in hand to show what a successful day it was.
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Goblin Squad Member
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Do you plan to be an abusive PVPer, Xeen?Follow that up with critical thinking about how we treat people that come here and ask questions.
Forgot to respond to this part.
Lol at the end statement.
Abusive? No, but aggressive. As I have said much much earlier in the thread... In eve when I killed a new player, because they entered a pirate area and not for killing them in a starter zone, I would give them back what they droppped add in some extra cash and then give them some pointers about low security areas and PVP in general.
You would be surprised at how many of them asked to joined my corporation. Or if they didnt want to be PVPers I would send them to an Eve University recruiter.
My main point of all of this... Is to teach people that the flower sniffing fairy land game they want is not PFO. It will be hard core PVP.
You will lose stuff
You will be killed by players
You will lose settlements that took you months to gather resources for
You will learn the harsh realities of the River Kingdoms
Even the Good Guys on a crusade to stop banditry are subject to this.
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Goblin Squad Member
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And in a perfect world, when the stars align, that might work. But what if they refuse that offer? I am not questioning your integrity, and I do not forsee this being a problem early on. But as time moves and resources become more rare, who knows?
Then you renegotiate the deal. Maybe a few more coins will make the difference or they would prefer the territory of Bad Guy C. Maybe they want protection as they move to their new home or help building it.
As I said, I've dealt with this problem before. Generally using the carrot is faster and easier and cheaper than a military campaign. In the rare instances where they just won't be budged you can make do without.
Of course I'm not saying everyone has to do it that way, that's just how I deal with friendly and neutral factions.
Even the Good Guys on a crusade to stop banditry are subject to this.
You say that as though I haven't been playing these kind of games for over a decade. You think I'm not aware of the dangers?
Also I'm not aware of anyone on an anti-bandit crusade. Just dishonest people painting a false picture that anti-RPK somehow = anti-bandit.
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Goblin Squad Member
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Do you plan to be an abusive PVPer, Xeen?Follow that up with critical thinking about how we treat people that come here and ask questions.
Forgot to respond to this part.
Lol at the end statement.
Abusive? No, but aggressive. As I have said much much earlier in the thread... In eve when I killed a new player, because they entered a pirate area and not for killing them in a starter zone, I would give them back what they droppped add in some extra cash and then give them some pointers about low security areas and PVP in general.
You would be surprised at how many of them asked to joined my corporation. Or if they didnt want to be PVPers I would send them to an Eve University recruiter.
My main point of all of this... Is to teach people that the flower sniffing fairy land game they want is not PFO. It will be hard core PVP.
You will lose stuff
You will be killed by players
You will lose settlements that took you months to gather resources for
You will learn the harsh realities of the River KingdomsEven the Good Guys on a crusade to stop banditry are subject to this.
I knew from your previous writing that you intend to play within the "box". I disagree that it will be "hardcore PVP". If it were, there would not be checks and balances to it. It is pretty much "semi regulated" PVP. That is to say hardcore is possible, but discouraged. So discouraged, as to make the hardcore crowd disadvantaged.
I think that I understand your point of view here, but I disagree with your method of delivery. No, we should not lie or sugar coat what the game looks like it will be. We should not chase away prospective players that want to hear that there will be some good parts also, though. Taking the time to discuss things that will be the checks to lessen rampant, abusive PVP will go a long way toward making the game more attractive. It isn't just a PVP slug fest for bandits and murderers. It will be something new, in between, and never really attempted like this before. People need to be educated about that.
It takes all kinds of players and character styles to make a game really great.
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Goblin Squad Member
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And in a perfect world, when the stars align, that might work. But what if they refuse that offer? I am not questioning your integrity, and I do not forsee this being a problem early on. But as time moves and resources become more rare, who knows?Then you renegotiate the deal. Maybe a few more coins will make the difference or they would prefer the territory of Bad Guy C. Maybe they want protection as they move to their new home or help building it.
As I said, I've dealt with this problem before. Generally using the carrot is faster and easier and cheaper than a military campaign. In the rare instances where they just won't be budged you can make do without.
Of course I'm not saying everyone has to do it that way, that's just how I deal with friendly and neutral factions.
Even the Good Guys on a crusade to stop banditry are subject to this.You say that as though I haven't been playing these kind of games for over a decade. You think I'm not aware of the dangers?
Also I'm not aware of anyone on an anti-bandit crusade. Just dishonest people painting a false picture that anti-RPK somehow = anti-bandit.
I wasnt referring to anyone specific.
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Goblin Squad Member
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@ Bringslite,
PFO very much sounds like the Devs, particularly Ryan Dancey, have set up a system very similar to EvE's zones of PvE / PvP.
NPC Settlement Hexes: Very Limited PvP; likely only Bounties, Assassinations and Wars.
Settlement Hexes: Depending on the laws, a moderate amount of PvP on average, but still somewhat discouraging (higher risk vs. reward).
Monster Hexes: Still close enough to settlements that wardens could still show up. Moderate risk vs. moderate reward.
Uncontrolled Hexes: Lawless lands, too far for NPC wardens. Lower risk vs higher rewards. This is where the Devs would like most of the PvP to take place. Entering here is tacit approval for PvP, whether you flag yourself for it or not.
I would argue, these hex areas are free-for-all and there is no such thing as griefing here. All PvP here is to take from you or to deny you access to resources that others don't want you to get. Come here armed to the teeth or ready to be ganked. If that is not to your taste, stay the Hell out.
When I write "You" I don't mean specifically you Bringslite, I'm speaking to general public.
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Goblin Squad Member
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Do you plan to be an abusive PVPer, Xeen?Follow that up with critical thinking about how we treat people that come here and ask questions.
Forgot to respond to this part.
Lol at the end statement.
Abusive? No, but aggressive. As I have said much much earlier in the thread... In eve when I killed a new player, because they entered a pirate area and not for killing them in a starter zone, I would give them back what they droppped add in some extra cash and then give them some pointers about low security areas and PVP in general.
You would be surprised at how many of them asked to joined my corporation. Or if they didnt want to be PVPers I would send them to an Eve University recruiter.
My main point of all of this... Is to teach people that the flower sniffing fairy land game they want is not PFO. It will be hard core PVP.
You will lose stuff
You will be killed by players
You will lose settlements that took you months to gather resources for
You will learn the harsh realities of the River KingdomsEven the Good Guys on a crusade to stop banditry are subject to this.
I knew from your previous writing that you intend to play within the "box". I disagree that it will be "hardcore PVP". If it were, there would not be checks and balances to it. It is pretty much "semi regulated" PVP. That is to say hardcore is possible, but discouraged. So discouraged, as to make the hardcore crowd disadvantaged.
I think that I understand your point of view here, but I disagree with your method of delivery. No, we should not lie or sugar coat what the game looks like it will be. We should not chase away prospective players that want to hear that there will be some good parts also, though. Taking the time to discuss things that will be the checks to lessen rampant, abusive PVP will go a long way toward making the game more attractive. It isn't just a PVP slug fest for bandits and murderers. It will be something new, in between, and never really...
That is true. Well other then I still think it will be hard core pvp. That mainly relates to... Everything will be as much Player generated as possible, so every aspect of the game will be against another player.
Player Combat has its limits, but not really all that much. You can outright gank someone with consequences. And the next day reverse the consequences.
In the end, you have to atone for your actions which some may not want to do. That is the only recourse to stop people, if they are not willing to atone. So long as you do, you will have access to everything.
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Goblin Squad Member
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@Xeen
You do not believe that one day of bad rep play will be recoverable by one day of good rep play, do you?
It depends on what you mean by "bad rep".
If you use flags properly and are somewhat selective in your targets, including where they are and what their reputation level is, you may actually lose very little reputation.
I would like to caution those that confuse ganking with griefing, particularly those that intend to use ganking as a practice. You do not do our cause any good by perpetuating the myth that ganking is being a "bad player".
Ganking is using superior force or numbers to defeat your opponent. It is designed to create an advantage to win in combat. There is not a military leader worth his salt, that would not admit that if he could he would win every battle. I would use a nuke to kill one man with a musket if that would assure me victory.
There is no such thing as a fair fight in combat. There is only the winner and the dead.
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Goblin Squad Member
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Nihimon, people like Realmwalker cannot handle it when they lose in combat.That's incredibly rude.Sure
All I was stating is... Most people, and yeah I named someone and shouldnt have, will throw hissy fits and quit games when they lose one thing.
IF THERE IS NO LOSS, THERE IS NO GAIN!!!
Whats the point of building an Empire if you have no risk of losing it.
Sad times we live in where everyone expects to be the winner.
And some people will throw hissy fits at the suggestion that their sociopathic tendencies need to be reined in. And they'll build up straw men, so they can be seen making a big show of tearing them down. But I won't name names...
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Goblin Squad Member
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And some people will throw hissy fits at the suggestion that their sociopathic tendencies need to be reined in. And they'll build up straw men, so they can be seen making a big show of tearing them down. But I won't name names...Nihimon, people like Realmwalker cannot handle it when they lose in combat.That's incredibly rude.Sure
All I was stating is... Most people, and yeah I named someone and shouldnt have, will throw hissy fits and quit games when they lose one thing.
IF THERE IS NO LOSS, THERE IS NO GAIN!!!
Whats the point of building an Empire if you have no risk of losing it.
Sad times we live in where everyone expects to be the winner.
I don't remember seeing a hissy fit thrown. And any credibility you could of had countering any posters debating style went out the window when you generalize any subscriber who is generally concerned about the state of PVP in a new game to a "sociopath"...and let's not forget the cute jab at the end. I'm pretty sure the most important rule stated for these forums was not to be a jerk, and now set forth the motion that we also now fight like 12 year old girls with BS like...not naming names.
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Goblin Squad Member
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I love, that after all of the "cute" things posted herein, anyone would call out Nihimon for that post.
Absolutely ridiculous.
No, I don't think it was ridiculous at all. I share some of the same concerns Xeen has, albeit for different reasons. We all have concerns about how this game is going to play out, and I am cautiously optimistic that this might be a game like we have never seen before. But after reading through these threads, I did get a general gut feeling from several posters that they were trying to convey that this game really be no different from any WOW clone that we have seen over the last decade.
There is a myriad of games out there that already offer what they seem to be looking for, moderated PVP if any, rules against griefing (which is often code for I can't PVP) and PVE zones. I don't want banditry, aggression, sporadic violence nerfed from the beginning, not because I am a sociopath, but because I enjoy a challenge for my LG characters to face.
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Goblin Squad Member
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I love, that after all of the "cute" things posted herein, anyone would call out Nihimon for that post.
Absolutely ridiculous.
No, I don't think it was ridiculous at all. I share some of the same concerns Xeen has, albeit for different reasons. We all have concerns about how this game is going to play out, and I am cautiously optimistic that this might be a game like we have never seen before. But after reading through these threads, I did get a general gut feeling from several posters that they were trying to convey that this game really be no different from any WOW clone that we have seen over the last decade.
There is a myriad of games out there that already offer what they seem to be looking for, moderated PVP if any, rules against griefing (which is often code for I can't PVP) and PVE zones. I don't want banditry, aggression, sporadic violence nerfed from the beginning, not because I am a sociopath, but because I enjoy a challenge for my LG characters to face.
Thats a fact. There are plenty of games out there that offer the flowers and bunny's for everyone... Sure bring friends, its multiplayer, but you may as well install Neverwinter Nights or Baulders Gate and setup a multiplayer game. Its much cheaper that way.
PVP games with empire building are rare. The only one Ive seen that is worth its weight is Eve. Very difficult game for most.
I have to agree that the difficulty is what inspires me to play. Especially as a bad guy. Currently most people plan to be good guys, and hunt the bad guys. Once the game reverses (if it does), you will find me as a good guy.
My guess is, in the end, the majority of players will be neutral. They will only be after the power and riches offered. They will be happy attacking any settlement that does not bend to their will.
I will happily fight these monstrosities. Who knows at this point though.
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Goblin Squad Member
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No economy of force? That is not very strategic for the long run.
I'll try to get this back on track, and use Bringslite's quote to do it...
It will take some time to actually gauge what is or is not economical force. In a very rough calculation I figure it would take about 8 to 1 to alpha strike and one-shot a noob.
This assumes a few things, which is why I say "rough" calculation:
Base damage = 40
Base Hit points of Noob = 400
10 x 40 = 400, but lets take into account a few buffs / debuffs.
8 x 40 = 320 + 10 points each in extra
So now we have a scenario:
2 groups of 4 bandits vs. 1 group of 5 merchants.
rd 1: 8 vs 5
rd 2: 7 vs 3
rd 3: 7 vs 2
rd 4: 6 vs 1
rd 5: 5 vs 0
I figure, even these numbers might be a bit underwhelming and the bandits would have more of an advantage then I give credit (ie more combat training, etc.)
Also another thing to consider when thinking of the economy of force. Having overwhelming numbers would likely result in SAD being accepted and that won;t take 5 combat rounds to resolve.
30 vs. 5!! You think that would be a good time to take the SAD? Even if you didn't, that may last 2 rounds. Then the raiding party moves on to another target, much faster than in the first scenario.
I know, I know, a lot of conjecture, but it is a fun scenario to think about.
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Goblin Squad Member
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No economy of force? That is not very strategic for the long run.I'll try to get this back on track, and use Bringslite's quote to do it...
It will take some time to actually gauge what is or is not economical force. In a very rough calculation I figure it would take about 8 to 1 to alpha strike and one-shot a noob.
This assumes a few things, which is why I say "rough" calculation:
Base damage = 40
Base Hit points of Noob = 400
10 x 40 = 400, but lets take into account a few buffs / debuffs.
8 x 40 = 320 + 10 points each in extra
So now we have a scenario:
2 groups of 4 bandits vs. 1 group of 5 merchants.
rd 1: 8 vs 5
rd 2: 7 vs 3
rd 3: 7 vs 2
rd 4: 6 vs 1
rd 5: 5 vs 0I figure, even these numbers might be a bit underwhelming and the bandits would have more of an advantage then I give credit (ie more combat training, etc.)
Also another thing to consider when thinking of the economy of force. Having overwhelming numbers would likely result in SAD being accepted and that won;t take 5 combat rounds to resolve.
30 vs. 5!! You think that would be a good time to take the SAD? Even if you didn't, that may last 2 rounds. Then the raiding party moves on to another target, much faster than in the first scenario.
I know, I know, a lot of conjecture, but it is a fun scenario to think about.
I will agree that the numbers may be underwhelming. Its better to estimate as you did. Bandits should have more combat training then most, but the guards should be on par...
30vs5... Offer SAD and hope they reject, means more loot.
Do we know the time frame that they plan to implement settlements?
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Goblin Squad Member
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@Valtorius
No one here, including Xeen, seems to have a problem with PVP as the devs are setting it up so far. I seriously doubt that "a few posters" are going to influence changes away from the current direction. Frankly, I don't know whom your are referring to.
Most of this is just "flying the colors", polarization of philosophies and factions, blustering and bravado.
When it comes to misrepresenting what the PVP will be to curious questioners, by bold statements of: "this is not the game for you". If you organize or frustrate legit banditry we will "teabag" you and post videos of it. We will go absolutely crazy. Or people like "XXX" just can't stand to lose...
It just is weak sauce. It shows an insular, typical griefer mentality that these people are wondering about. That is not really what I would hope we want the curious lurkers to take away.
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Goblin Squad Member
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I think your math is generally right, Bludd. Economy of force matters if you have multiple targets that must be engaged and you need to win most or all of the engagements.
But if you're playing the partisan/irregular force, you don't need to go toe to toe with every possible threat. You need to defeat one and disappear before it can be reinforced.
I guess the principles of war are still valid when we're all undying zombies.
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Goblin Squad Member
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I love, that after all of the "cute" things posted herein, anyone would call out Nihimon for that post.
Absolutely ridiculous.
No, I don't think it was ridiculous at all. I share some of the same concerns Xeen has, albeit for different reasons. We all have concerns about how this game is going to play out, and I am cautiously optimistic that this might be a game like we have never seen before. But after reading through these threads, I did get a general gut feeling from several posters that they were trying to convey that this game really be no different from any WOW clone that we have seen over the last decade.
There is a myriad of games out there that already offer what they seem to be looking for, moderated PVP if any, rules against griefing (which is often code for I can't PVP) and PVE zones. I don't want banditry, aggression, sporadic violence nerfed from the beginning, not because I am a sociopath, but because I enjoy a challenge for my LG characters to face.
I think I can speak for the majority of the people posting here when I say that we aren't asking for horde vs. alliance or overbearing PVP restrictions. We just don't want a community like Darkfall where most of the new players leave because of consistent and unaggravated abuse by the majority of the veteran population.
I have never gotten the impression that Nihimon is anti-banditry, anti-war, anti-imperialist, or anti-PVP when it comes to their existence in PFO.
You are going very far out on a limb to assert we want anything like WoW, and you may just want to back off a bit and get to know what this community is really like. Go look up the anti-PVP topics and see who the people most vocally in favor of it are. In fact here, I'll save you time.
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Goblin Squad Member
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@Valtorius
No one here, including Xeen, seems to have a problem with PVP as the devs are setting it up so far. I seriously doubt that "a few posters" are going to influence changes away from the current direction. Frankly, I don't know whom your are referring to.
Most of this is just "flying the colors", polarization of philosophies and factions, blustering and bravado.
When it comes to misrepresenting what the PVP will be to curious questioners, by bold statements of: "this is not the game for you". If you organize or frustrate legit banditry we will "teabag" you and post videos of it. We will go absolutely crazy. Or people like "XXX" just can't stand to lose...
It just is weak sauce. It shows an insular, typical griefer mentality that these people are wondering about. That is not really what I would hope we want the curious lurkers to take away.
There is plenty of people who have problems with PVP. Some say...
I will just attack
I will try to destroy my stuff
You will have no skills
etc etc
Sure, play that way if you want to. You will get griefed from then on. Use the system and play on par with your opposites and get treated in kind.
"This is not a game for you" has come from Ryan and Lisa. Granted they tell us to limit it and not run people off to quickly. Simply put if someone has a general fear of PVP, it applies.
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Goblin Squad Member
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We just don't want a community like Darkfall where most of the new players leave because of consistent and unaggravated abuse by the majority of the veteran population.
This I think we all can agree on. Granted there will be a "zone" where that ends.
Including things like, joining a CC, Several hexes from safe areas, running a caravan (more then one character), having a pvp flag, etc.
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Goblin Squad Member
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The more that we discuss the farther away we get. How do any of those examples equate with what I wrote?
Is talking of resisting banditry and how their play just might suck (in the eyes of some) threaten you that much? You really don't want to face resistance. That is the message That I am getting. It is not that anyone hates PVP on this end, just that we are vocal that we will not be easy legit marks, that bugs you?
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Goblin Squad Member
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I love, that after all of the "cute" things posted herein, anyone would call out Nihimon for that post.
Absolutely ridiculous.
No, I don't think it was ridiculous at all. I share some of the same concerns Xeen has, albeit for different reasons. We all have concerns about how this game is going to play out, and I am cautiously optimistic that this might be a game like we have never seen before. But after reading through these threads, I did get a general gut feeling from several posters that they were trying to convey that this game really be no different from any WOW clone that we have seen over the last decade.
There is a myriad of games out there that already offer what they seem to be looking for, moderated PVP if any, rules against griefing (which is often code for I can't PVP) and PVE zones. I don't want banditry, aggression, sporadic violence nerfed from the beginning, not because I am a sociopath, but because I enjoy a challenge for my LG characters to face.
I think I can speak for the majority of the people posting here when I say that we aren't asking for horde vs. alliance or overbearing PVP restrictions. We just don't want a community like Darkfall where most of the new players leave because of consistent and unaggravated abuse by the majority of the veteran population.
I have never gotten the impression that Nihimon is anti-banditry, anti-war, anti-imperialist, or anti-PVP when it comes to their existence in PFO.
You are going very far out on a limb to assert we want anything like WoW, and you may just want to back off a bit and get to know what this community is really like. Go look up the anti-PVP topics and see who the people most vocally in favor of it are. In fact here, I'll save you time.
I couldn't have gone out on that limb because I am not even on that tree. I never said anyone whom I was directly speaking with, Nihimon, you or any other specific person was against banditry here in this thread specifically, all though I did get that impression from some of it, hence the plural of thread...threads meaning a combined feeling from several threads.
I was simply stating why I was concerned and my logic behind it. I seemed to have had meaningful discussion about these topics and have conceded that both the devs and people here on this specific thread have had some really good points, and I can see your point as well from keeping this game from becoming a grief machine. But just because I am cautious about what exactly regulating any form of PVP interaction does not mean I or the character I am going to play, or Xeen is a sociopath.
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Goblin Squad Member
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The more that we discuss the farther away we get. How do any of those examples equate with what I wrote?
Is talking of resisting banditry and how their play just might suck (in the eyes of some) threaten you that much? You really don't want to face resistance. That is the message That I am getting. It is not that anyone hates PVP on this end, just that we are vocal that we will not be easy legit marks, that bugs you?
To be honest, what would bug me personally is that my Paladin would never get to face off against a well skilled bandit king or Dark Paladin because game mechanics made it impossible for them to train.
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Goblin Squad Member
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To be honest, what would bug me personally is that my Paladin would never get to face off against a well skilled bandit king or Dark Paladin because game mechanics made it impossible for them to train.The more that we discuss the farther away we get. How do any of those examples equate with what I wrote?
Is talking of resisting banditry and how their play just might suck (in the eyes of some) threaten you that much? You really don't want to face resistance. That is the message That I am getting. It is not that anyone hates PVP on this end, just that we are vocal that we will not be easy legit marks, that bugs you?
Reputation and alignment are measured separately. Infact bandits and assassins who fly the outlaw and assassin flags should have very high reputations.
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Goblin Squad Member
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There is plenty of people who have problems with PVP. Some say...I will just attack
ähm, what?
so people who say, you can have my stuff...over my dead body have a problem with pvp?!?
"This is not a game for you" has come from Ryan and Lisa. Granted they tell us to limit it and not run people off to quickly. Simply put if someone has a general fear of PVP, it applies.
is the exact quote noted in the nihimonicon maybe?
anyway, could you kindly explain to me, how exactly the game or this community will profit from people saying "it´s pvp -this is not the game for you" as opposed to, "it is pvp, you may not like it, but read the blogs first and inform yourself about the vision before you decide"?
because, it really annoys me.
i mean, if the dev´s are doing that, after discussing it with theperson involved, that is one thing. but in what world is it a good idea if players do that? and straight away on top of that? i might even understand it if you try to explain for a page or two and the other one just rambles on and doesn`t listen, but, as a "hi, wrong game, bye"-kind of post?
and, please don`t imply i´m arguing agains this because i have a problem with pvp
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Goblin Squad Member
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Reputation and alignment are measured separately. Infact bandits and assassins who fly the outlaw and assassin flags should have very high reputations.
Why do you say they should have very high reputations? I'd think they could, or they might, but that it all depends on if they play to keep their reputation high. A bandit who is carefully using SAD can keep reputation high, yes, but one who is mostly doing ambushes might not.
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Goblin Squad Member
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Reputation and alignment are measured separately. Infact bandits and assassins who fly the outlaw and assassin flags should have very high reputations.Why do you say they should have very high reputations? I'd think they could, or they might, but that it all depends on if they play to keep their reputation high. A bandit who is carefully using SAD can keep reputation high, yes, but one who is mostly doing ambushes might not.
If I remember right, killing without offering a SAD, or hitting targets who you don't have a contract for can cause you to lose your flag. So I think maintaining the flag will keep your rep pretty high.
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Goblin Squad Member
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If I remember right, killing without offering a SAD, or hitting targets who you don't have a contract for can cause you to lose your flag. So I think maintaining the flag will keep your rep pretty high.
Ah, you're right. I was reading that Outlaw gets more loot drops from PvP and thought ambushes would pay out that way. But the Outlaw flag drops if the bandit attacks without offering SAD.
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Goblin Squad Member
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Just wanted to remind folks that the artwork style in Pathfinder Online draws its inspiration from the artwork in the various Pathfinder books, not real life. Pathfinder is a fantasy RPG game, and its artwork is much more stylized than real life. There are things in Pathfinder artwork that you won't find in the real world, such a armor that shows the female form. Check out Seelah, our iconic paladin. We don't show cleavage, but the armor is formed so it accentuates her breasts. That is fantasy. It isn't realistic or have any relation to what works in real life. And Pathfinder Online will follow a similar aesthetic. We aren't trying to make a medieval simulation. We aren't trying to be true to the real world. There will be tons of options for everyone. But the look and feel of Pathfinder Online will be identical to the Pathfinder books Paizo publishes. If you are looking for a game that is more realistic or looks different than what you see in Paizo's books, then Pathfinder Online isn't going to be for you. If you want a gritty fantasy world with some amazing fantasy graphics, then you will love what we are doing.
-Lisa
Hardly usable as an excuse to scare away people that have concerns about PVP.
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Goblin Squad Member
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A serious question on what we know of SAD mechanics: In the blog entry (Feb 6, 2013), it states "Outlaws use a new mechanic we are working on developing called stand and deliver, which allows the Outlaw to demand money from their victim through a trade window."
Have we seen anything that says that the Outlaw can demand goods, or is it just money/coin? I've read through that blog entry and the related thread and saw no clarification from GW reps.
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Goblin Squad Member
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Hardly usable as an excuse to scare away people that have concerns about PVP.Just wanted to remind folks that the artwork style in Pathfinder Online draws its inspiration from the artwork in the various Pathfinder books, not real life. Pathfinder is a fantasy RPG game, and its artwork is much more stylized than real life. There are things in Pathfinder artwork that you won't find in the real world, such a armor that shows the female form. Check out Seelah, our iconic paladin. We don't show cleavage, but the armor is formed so it accentuates her breasts. That is fantasy. It isn't realistic or have any relation to what works in real life. And Pathfinder Online will follow a similar aesthetic. We aren't trying to make a medieval simulation. We aren't trying to be true to the real world. There will be tons of options for everyone. But the look and feel of Pathfinder Online will be identical to the Pathfinder books Paizo publishes. If you are looking for a game that is more realistic or looks different than what you see in Paizo's books, then Pathfinder Online isn't going to be for you. If you want a gritty fantasy world with some amazing fantasy graphics, then you will love what we are doing.
-Lisa
I dont remember saying it was directly related to PVP. But it was a "this is what is planned for the game" type of response. In fact I think Ryans was about the Classless system from a year ago.