|
hey all,
I'm trying to find a good "mix" of classes to make an effective shadow dancer. I've been playing with Magus/rogue (sneak attack(s), hexes (touch), and the general sneakiness)...but I'm not quite sure how to do it...i keep running into the problem of low BAB, (i wind up having a +3 BAB for 4 levels, and then the +0 from the first level of shadow dancer) which i know hurts this build greatly...x.x
(BTW I'm thinking of having a Fetchling, the Magus being a hex caster, and the rogue being a poisoner, and using the weapon finesse feat so i don't have to worry so much about how i divide up my points. )
anyone have any advice?
|
How far down Shadow Dancer do u want to go. If ur in it for Summon Shadow (3rd level) then id go Undead Lord Cleric using the shadow and Skeleton as flanking buddies and pseudo tanks. Tanks because they both can be healed from Negative Energy abilities since there both tanks and the Shadow no mater what level u are it has 1/2 ur health.
Ranger is one of my favorites to enter into SD, too, follow it up to lvl 6 and you should be fine (same goes for most classes 666bender mentioned--extra goodies and iterative attack).
Ruyan.
|
|
i was thinking of the Magus/rogue combo for the sneaky, cursing, poison comboed on top of sneak attack / melee attacks. i figured that shadow dancer would aid to my "you can't see me..STAB!" type of theme. yea i know rogues already do that, but that's why i was thinking of adding in the curses/spells from the Magus as well as it's weapon enhancements.
I'm just not sure if it'd work out as well as I'm thinking it will, or if it's even worth going into shadow dancer, and to just stay as a Magus/rogue.
I'm thinking of the hex caster for the Magus, and the poisoner for the rogue. the race being the fetchling.
I know my BAB will suck (for the most part), specially if i stay in each class for 5 levels each, and then go on to shadow dancer...I'd have 4 levels of a BAB of 3, and then a BAB of 0 when i take my first level of SD...
so, is this a viable build, or is it a waste of paper?
I also favor the Fighter. Here's a Fighter-Shadowdancer that I've sketched up to lvl9, taking inspiration from the 2h Shadowdancer guide.
Zed can use his reach weapon with Spring Attack to take advantage of AoOs (with combat reflexes) as the enemy moves to re-engage if the situation calls for it, or alternatively just swing his greatsword. If he's mobbed by lesser creatures, he has the Lunge-Whirlwind Attack combo to do some aoe damage.
Mithral and Armor Training allow you to be pretty sneaky in full plate too. With some more money, you can get Shadow on it, and a Sash of the War Champion.
Not listed is his Shadow companion, and his unspent 2.5k which is probably for consummables (like a wand of ILW to heal the Shadow).
Later on this character would turn to the occult, using the Fetchling's +2 Cha for easier qualification to Improved Eldritch Heritage to pick up the scaling +Str bonus from Abyssal, finally making up for the Fetchling lacking a racial Str bonus.
So, that's one way you could approach the Shadowdancer.
|
|
How far down Shadow Dancer do u want to go. If ur in it for Summon Shadow (3rd level) then id go Undead Lord Cleric using the shadow and Skeleton as flanking buddies and pseudo tanks. Tanks because they both can be healed from Negative Energy abilities since there both tanks and the Shadow no mater what level u are it has 1/2 ur health.Undead Lord is absolute garbage, DO NOT USE THAT ARCHETYPE.
Ahem,
I like the magus/rouge idea (spell strike w/ shocking grasp+sneak attack=ouch), but why rouge? Ninja is, IMO, almost always better.
Now, if you aren't totally set on magic, then fighter would be better. That I have to agree with. If you go with magus, by no means will you be terrible, but you won't be optimized.
One last question: Do you want SD because of the various abilities, or because of the flavor? If flavor, than its good to dip one SD level for hide in plain sight (HiPS). In an evil campaign I'm in, I'm playing a goblin free hand fighter who will go into duelist later. He will probably dip SD for HiPS. He uses dervish dance so his DEX is maxed out. In short, we're at 5th level and he has good AC, good damage, and (IIRC) a +18 stealth. He might be what you want eventually.
Hope I Helped,
I Hate Nickelback
lol at the reaction to the undead lord idea XD
it's a flavor/theme type of thing. I am mostly going for SD for the HiPS, and the shadow pet. I haven't looked at ninja yet, but intend to.
|
|
Dervish Dance requires Scimitar, but it also lets a Scimitar count as a one handed piercing weapon, so you can use it with Duelist. The only other option to do dex to damage with a finesse weapon is the Agile enchantment.
Dervish Dance is usually the better choice as you can use it with any scimitar, while the agile enchantment is on one weapon and can be sundered.
|
|
Ranger has better saves, better damage, better BAB, better hit points, nearly as many skill points, Favored Terrain bonuses, and the option of Disabling Traps, and doing just about everything a Rogue dose, better.
true, but one of the major reasons I'm looking at the rogue is sneak attack. (which yes, now that I'm looking at ninja, i see that it also has sneak attack)
how is ranger better at stealth? oO?Rogue does not help "sneakiness". This is false.
Ranger is better.
Hide in Plain Sight, favored Terrain bonus to stealth, can't be tracked in favored terrain, Camoflauge ability, and Woodland stride ability can all be combined together to out stealth the rogue, especially when its a dex based bow ranger.
Sneak attacks sounds good, but honestly it's just a damage mechanic. A s&*+ty damage mechanic at that because an optimized fighter or barbarian will still deal more damage than a rogue will even if the rogue can pull off a full attack sneak attack every round.
|
No.
Sneak Attack actually has nothing to do with being sneaky.
Check out this thread on being a master of stealth.
my last character was a rogue/shadow dancer, it was a fun class. not every character has to be optimized. this is particulary true if you are in a home game with friends.
Ranger has better saves, better damage, better BAB, better hit points, nearly as many skill points, Favored Terrain bonuses, and the option of Disabling Traps, and doing just about everything a Rogue dose, better.
Thisthisthisthis, plus bonus feats!
The ranger should give you solid damage and enhances your companion.
Unfortunately, it is too vulnerable to have a permanent flanking buddy, thus SA is really unreliable as damage source.
If you want your magus-feeling you could opt for minor and major magic to get shocking grasp--but imo it comes into play much too late; would shield be worth it?
Ruyan.
|
|
@.@ trying to keep up with all the advice :p
i never looked into the inquisitor class, i always thought it was another "must be" lawful type of class...(i prefer CN) that is a good idea tho. I'm still looking thru the ranger and it's archetypes. *points to all the tabs open*
with all this advice it's definately helping me figure out how to do my concept better. so thank you for all the advice/help.
btw, I believe I mentioned this, but i'm choosing the fetchling as the race, due to it's bonuses. i figured they'd help towards my concept/goal.
|
|
Shadow Blending (Su): Attacks against a fetchling in dim light have a 50% miss chance instead of the normal 20% miss chance. This ability does not grant total concealment; it just increases the miss chance.
Shadowy Resistance: Fetchlings have cold resistance 5 and electricity resistance 5
Skilled: Fetchlings have a +2 racial bonus on Knowledge (planes) and Stealth checks.
Darkvision: Fetchlings can see perfectly in the dark up to 60 feet.
Low-Light Vision: In addition to their ability to see perfectly in the dark up to 60 ft, fetchlings have low-light vision, allowing them to see twice as far as humans in conditions of dim light.
n deciding between:
Spell-Like Abilities (Sp): A fetchling can use disguise self once per day as a spell-like ability. He can assume the form of any humanoid creature. A fetchling's caster level is equal to his total Hit Dice. When a fetchling reaches 9th level in any combination of classes, he gains shadow walk (self only) as a spell-like ability usable once per day as a spell-like ability. A fetchling's caster level is equal to his total Hit Dice. When a fetchling reaches 13th level in any combination of classes, he gains plane shift (self only, to the Shadow Plane or the Material Plane only) usable once per day as a spell-like ability. A fetchling's caster level is equal to his total Hit Dice.
or:
Gloom Shimmer Some fetchlings can manipulate shadowy energy in order to displace their location instead of transporting between shadows. Upon reaching 9th level, instead of gaining shadow walk as a spell-like ability, these fetchlings gain displacement as a spell-like ability usable twice per day. For this ability, a fetchling's caster level is equal to his total Hit Dice. This racial trait modifies the spell-like ability racial trait.
|
|
yes, I'm wanting to basically come out of stealth, attack, with a bonus from the Magus' enchant/enhance my wpn, or use a spell/hex (whichever) to enhance my attacks/damage, and slink back into the shadows...rinse and repeat.
i know that it won't be that simple, as i can't move/attack/move in a single round, hence my want/need on char. to bluff my way out, if need be. ntm the game is going to be a nice mix/balance of role play, and fights, so I'd want to be able to aid/add to the rp if there's skill checks or w/e that require some form of cha.
I've been thinking about a Paladin/SD for thematic reasons. Is there anything hopelessly unoptimized about the build?
You seem to want a stealthy melee character who has a flank buddy for sneak attacks and can cast spells, not MAD, vanishing in and out of combat. Have I missed anything there?
Because it kind of sounds like a straight Ranger build to me. The only thing a straight up Ranger is missing is sneak attack dice, the damage of which can be overcome by the animal companion and summon nature's allies.
Is the sneak attack mechanic vital to the build or the flavor of the character you're building? Because you can go with straight Ninja instead of Ranger, and still dip into Shadowdancer, while having the *poof in* attack *poof out* mechanic and sneak attack dice.
I'm pretty sure there's a way to move/attack/move in the same round. I know for a fact Dervish Dancer Bards can do it. Not sure about your build though.