So I'm entering a RotRL's game as a Barbarian (Orc, Invulnerable Rager, taking the Deathless line to act as a bit of a tank).
I've got most of my Rage Powers planned out, like such:
2.) Superstition
4.) Lesser Beast Totem
6.) Beast Totem
8.) ??? (Energy Resistance?)
10.) Greater Beast Totem
Obviously, the issue is with the level 8 one. The other ones in the running were Increased Damage Reduction and Unexpected Strike, any other options I should consider (I plan to get Come and Get Me at 12th), and/or which of these 3 is the best option?
As far as gear, I've got 82k to play around with.
I'm thinking these:
+2 Furious Earthbreaker
+3 Breastplate
+3 Cloak of Resistances
Bag of Holding (Type 2)
Ring of Protection +1
Amulet of Natural Armor +1
+2 Belt of Physical Might (Str and Con, bringing me up to 24 Str and 18 Con)
But that still leaves me with 23k to play around with. Should I just upgrade the Ring/Amulet (with them I have 26 AC, along with the Breastplate, my 12 Dex, Beast Totem and Ironhide) and pocket the rest? Take those off and get something else? Another item entirely (Is there a "must have" Barbarian item like Gloves of Dueling for Fighter I don't know about?).
Thanks for the help.
How about feats? Remember, you can always pick "Extra Rage Power" from level 3 on. You could always pick up more of the superstition line.
I hear good things about the reckless abandon rage power. It basically improves your to hit while decreasing AC (and essentially shifts the penalties of power attack onto your AC). It works well with CaGM and Dazing Assault, since it mitigates the penalties of the latter feat. Dazing assault helps tie CaGM together, since your AoO on the opponent is resolved first, and dazing opponents means they would not even be able to get the hit off on you.
Are you sure you want to simply have the bonuses to your STR and CON? I ask since you have a lot of funds, and only 12 DEX. This is mostly a concern about your ability to utilize combat reflexes and take advantage of CaGM means you need a lot of Attacks of opportunity. Just adding another +2 for another AoO would be nice if only to be on the safe side. Anyway, switching to a +2 belt of physical perfection would only cost 6,000 more.
I'd get Witch Hunter and Spell Sunder in there (with an Extra Rage Power feat), personally. That's the "standard" Barbarian.
I also think you need to consider a Courageous Weapon (only 14k more to go from +2 Furious to +2 Furious Courageous). When raging, that will raise your Strength, Con, and I think your saves vs. magic by another 2 each. Totally sweet deal.
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Ooh, that sounds pretty nice MPL. Lessee the exact wording.
"Raises morale bonuses by 1/2 the weapon's enhancement bonus". So that means when Raging, the Furious property boosts the weapon to +4, meaning I get a total of +6 Str/Con, +4 Will Saves, and +6 saves in general?
That's pretty boss.
@Lemeres: I've got no Feats free. The Deathless line is pretty Feat intensive so my Feats look like this:
1.) Power Attack
3.) Endurance
5.) Die Hard
7.) Ironhide
9.) Deathless Initiate
11 will be Deathless Master. Then I can take whatever Feats I want, but one'll probably be Iron Will. Though snagging Witch Hunter + Spell Sunder does sound nice ASAP.
I know it's almost cliche by now but they're so good (and flavorful, IMO).
So, you are basically spending 4 feats to get 20 more HP? That seems like a pretty bad investment.
So, you are basically spending 4 feats to get 20 more HP? That seems like a pretty bad investment.
I dunno, they sounded neat. You fight until you literally drop dead, no matter what.
Though now I think about it they sounded a lot neater in the original concept (a Fighter) because there was an option to add +2 to your Con every level to determine when you died.
Harrumph. I guess I should get rid of 'em, especially since Endurance sucks and Die Hard is utterly redundant. Think I'll keep Ironhide though.
Well, besides Extra Rage Power, any suggestions for Feats then?
Oh, before I forget, good languages to learn?
I'm doing something a bit weird for this character (He's a Linguist Barbarian!), so I've got 10 ranks in Linguistics.
I currently know Common, Orc, Undercommon, and Giant, which leaves me with 8 languages unassigned.
So, quick generic Feats idea:
1.) Power Attack
3.) Extra Rage Power (Witch Hunter)
5.) Weapon Focus: Earthbreaker or Iron Will
7.) Ironhide
9.) Extra Rage Power (Spell Sunder)
Intimidate is usually a Barbarian thing, right? Cornugan Smash is nice, then.
Improved Sunder, to help land that Spell Sunder.
Oh, hey, you're a full orc? Doesn't Ferocity almost do what those other feats would have done anyway? Ferocious Action, with no pre-reqs. can duplicate I think the third feat in that chain.
Keen Scent is a nice little boost, if you have the Wisdom.
I am really fond of Trap Wrecker. For whatever reason, I just really enjoy the concept, and it seems fairly easy to succeed on, too. That means, with Spell Sunder, that you can be the party's trap disarmer without any ranks of Disable Device.
I would definitely grab combat reflexes by level 11 if you plan to use CaGM.
Abyssal, Infernal, Celestial, and Draconic seem like good choices, since they are ancient, widespread, and also the root for many other languages. There are some languages that are specically called out as a pidgin involving those languages, and you can understand those other langauges if you have them. So that means even more languages in total. Just take a look at the list of Nonhuman languages of Golarian. Azlanti is also a good one to learn, not only in the same sense people learn dead languages such as Greek to better understand the roots of more modern languages, but because some ancient, long slumbering beings might be a TINY bit outdated on mortal languages. Plus it would make you look wicked cultured.
The languages of the four primary elemental planes might also be useful for dealing with a wide array of creatures you may encounter.
Intimidate is usually a Barbarian thing, right? Cornugan Smash is nice, then.
Improved Sunder, to help land that Spell Sunder.
Oh, hey, you're a full orc? Doesn't Ferocity almost do what those other feats would have done anyway? Ferocious Action, with no pre-reqs. can duplicate I think the third feat in that chain.
Keen Scent is a nice little boost, if you have the Wisdom.
I am really fond of Trap Wrecker. For whatever reason, I just really enjoy the concept, and it seems fairly easy to succeed on, too. That means, with Spell Sunder, that you can be the party's trap disarmer without any ranks of Disable Device.
If I were gonna do Intimidate, Intimidating Prowess is a must.
I've got 5 Cha.
5.
But that IS a possible option, yeah. An Intimidate build was my second choice after the Deathless one actually.
And Cornugon Smash sounds neat.
@Lemeres, thanks for that link. I think Azlanti is a good one for RotRL, isn't it?
Though where is that on there, exactly?
Ah, different section. Look at the bottom and it is under 'dead languages.' There is also a section for outsider languages and the various human languages (apparently 'common' is a relative term for the language of the area. I never bothered to look at the definition until recently. So you could also have a choice for languages from other nations... but languages from other dimensions is more common frankly. Side note: the section for outsider languages actually includes Russian. As in Russsia Russsian.)
I've never played RotRL lords myself, but Azlanti might be useful if you think there would be ruins over...checking the math here....9,000 years old. Closer to 10,000 really. I'm not sure how often it has been used after the Starfall honestly. It is the root language for many human and nonhuman languages though. Actually, I'm not entirely sure if you can pick Azlanti as a language through linguistics. I think the only people with any practice speaking it might be some very scholarly elves. Mostly it is just studied through writing, although the fluff for several other languages compares it linguistically with more modern languages, so who knows. Make of that what you will.
Definitely get a Headband of Havoc for the barbarian. It is pretty much the must have item for any barbarian. It increases one of your rage powers byb4 levels. So that can be witch hunter, strength surge, beast totem, or superstition. Essentially netting you a +1 to any one of those, except strength surge which would be a +4 gain. Nice.
The other reason and in my mind the more important reason for the item, is the immediate action to rage. You might be able to rage as a free action, but those still occur on your turn or in between. You can't use a free action as an effect to a cause of something. Timmediate action will allow you to get your superstition saves when you have to make the fireball reflex check or the like.
Very nice item, highly needed.
Also for the spell sunder, try to get your CMB exceptionally high. The gauntlet of of skilled manuever will give a +2, dusty rose prism ioun stone w/ wayfinder is another's+2, dueling weapon property from pathfinder society field guide, and a few other things will practically allow you to spell sunder anything you want. Throw in strength surge and your just gloating now, :).
Ooh, that's a neat item. Thanks for pointing it out.
So if I was gonna Intimidate people, I guess I'd need to grab Intimidating Prowess at 3 and then Cornugon Smash at 7th (dropping Ironhide).
I dunno if that's the route I want to go though.
I think it might actually be pretty lulzy to snag Trap Wrecker along with Spell Sunder, since we don't have a trap disabler, so I could fill multiple niches. With a Barbarian, no less.
I like it.
So I'm thinking now:
Feats:
1.) Power Attack
3.) Trap Wrecker
5.)Extra Rage Power (Witch Hunter)
7.) Extra Rage Power (Spell Sunder)
9.) Ironhide
Any possible replacements for Ironhide, since I no longer need it as a prereq? Another Extra Rage Power to snag something else neat, perhaps?
Rage Powers:
2.) Superstition
4.) Lesser Beast Totem
5.) Witch Hunter
6.) Beast Totem
7.) Spell Sunder
8.) Strength Surge
10.) Greater Beast Totem
12.) ???
Gear:
As the OP, but adding Courageous to my Earthbreaker and snagging a Headband of Havoc, leaving me with 1k gold.
Now that I think about it, I seriously want to see a guide that gives real consideration to the benefits and disadvantages to learning one language over another through the linguistic skill or through high intelligence. Going through each one, examining how often they come up both in world and in game (lets admit, many people will not even bother giving different human countries different languages. They all get caught up in the nebulous 'common.')
Yes, there are magic spells or class abilities that would make the whole exercise pointless, but that is hardly the point.
How about at lvl 3 instead of trap wrecker you take improved sunder. Would help with spell sunder and what not then at lvl 9 take greater sunder.
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Now that I think about it, I seriously want to see a guide that gives real consideration to the benefits and disadvantages to learning one language over another through the linguistic skill or through high intelligence. Going through each one, examining how often they come up both in world and in game (lets admit, many people will not even bother giving different human countries different languages. They all get caught up in the nebulous 'common.')
Yes, there are magic spells or class abilities that would make the whole exercise pointless, but that is hardly the point.
When i am dming there is no common
If you're in Rise of the Runelords, you obviously want Thassilonian. The players guide makes it pretty clear that's a big deal language for the game.
As for other rage powers, Strength Surge helps buff Spell Sunder, but you really need Improved Sunder first so you're not provoking when you Spell Sunder.
Ah, so there are 9,000 year old languages involved in the path, just not the one I suggested. Well, that is a bit of vindication that my approach was not completely off the wall, just off the mark.
Well,Andrew, I suppose you are just being more specific with whether the 'common' used is Varisian, Vudrani, Taldane, etc. But it a serious question: how often does it occur in most games where know the language of the neighboring country helps the player more than knowing a dead language? It always ends up being some summoned elemental this, or diabolical manuscript that. Of course, this could just be my perspective. How do the rest of you find it?
Is it that strange for you to fill the trapfinder niche? Well, maybe it is since you are taking armored hulk, but the base barbarian has trap sense and both uncanny dodges. Not to say that that archetype isn't fine too. the AC of heavy armor with the benefits of DR is great.
Improved Sunder is a good idea that I should have thought of on my own. =/
I'll just replace Ironhide with that.
Also, I'm not an Armored Hulk, I'm an Invulnerable Rager. I trade in my Uncanny Dodge and Trap Sense for DR 5/- and Fire Resistance 3. I thought it was a solid trade.
Also, these are the languages I decided on:
Common, Orc, Undercommon, Giant, Thassilonian, Draconic, Infernal, Abyssal, Sylvan, Aklo, Celestial, Goblin
I think it covers a good range of things we might need to talk to.
But you're not me.
He's ugly (scarred head to toe) and lacks social graces (though he doesn't INTENTIONALLY insult people), but he's intelligent and wise enough to be a good translator. I see no issue with it.
Where did I get the armored hulk idea? Still, DR works well for you when facing traps. Your fort save and fire resistance also seem like they should help.
That is something I always wondered about: if you use a translator, whose charisma score gets used? Sure, the translator is the one picking the diction and speaking the words, but perform (oratory) also has to deal with body language and tone of voice I'd imagine. Still, you are the one they will turn to when going through century old manuscripts and in the ruins when they have to decipher the signs to figure out where is the bathroom (since confusing it with the alter is a good way to get cursed). Plus it helps you play against type, since there is actually an option for orcs to have NO languages whatsoever. How would one even play such a game? Oracles consider it a major curse to be forced to speak celestial when things get hairy.
I'm not sure. I don't think "Diplomacy by proxy" works very well (If I were GMing it I'd allow it, with a penalty. Somewhere between -2 and -5), but direct translation shouldn't be a huge issue.
Also, I've kinda wanted to play a Feral Orc in a game where communication doesn't matter. Which is sadly, none of them. =/
Ah well. Linguist Orc is likely much more interesting. He's an Orc of many talents, translating manuscripts, disabling traps, and crushing heads.
Oh, also, the highest I've ever played is 8th, and that was a Monk.
What's the average AC for a Barbarian at 10th? Is 22 (before Rage, it's 23 after with Beast Totem) any good?
What's the average AC for a Barbarian at 10th? Is 22 (before Rage, it's 23 after with Beast Totem) any good?
The cheapest order for buying AC point by point is:
+1 Armor, +1 Shield (1k)
+1 Ring, +1 Amulet (2k)
+2 Armor, +1 Shield (3k)
Jingasa of the Fortunate Soldier, Dusty Rose Prism Ioun Stone, +3 Armor, +3 Shield (5k)
+2 Ring, +2 Amulet, Belt of Physical Perfection (since you have Str/Con already) (6k)
+4 Armor, +4 Shield (7k)
+5 Armor, +5 Shield (9k)
+3 Ring, +3 Amulet (10k)
etc.
For you, with no shield and 12 Dex, it's basically a question of how much having different levels of AC are worth to you.
Your base is 17 (+1 Dex, +6 Armor), so getting where you got already (22) cost you 13k. You can buy up to 2 additional AC at 5k each, and another three at 6k each after that.
AC:
17 - 0gp
18 - 1k
19 - 3k
20 - 5k
21 - 8k
22 - 13k
23 - 18k
24 - 23k
25 - 29k
26 - 35k
27 - 41k
28 - 48k
29 - 57k
30 - 67k
31 - 77k
Given your starting stats, spending ~1/3 your wealth on AC stuff (since you get 62k) should get you in the 24 AC pre-rage range (I figure most melee people would go 1/3 Offense, 1/3 Defense, 1/3 utility/saves). It looks like you spent 13k, which is 1/5. How valuable is AC to you? Did you spend a lot more on offense?
Ah hm. So I'm a bit behind, in other words.
Edit: Ah, I see your edit. That makes me feel a bit better.
I think from now on I'll start snagging some more AC items when possible. We do have a Druid with Craft Wondrous Item and stuff, so it'll be a bit cheaper when I actually enter the game.
Ah hm. So I'm a bit behind, in other words.
Edit: Ah, I see your edit. That makes me feel a bit better.
I think from now on I'll start snagging some more AC items when possible. We do have a Druid with Craft Wondrous Item and stuff, so it'll be a bit cheaper when I actually enter the game.
I edited it a lot, and wasn't including the penalty for raging even though I was including the bonus from Beast Totem, so you're really only 2-3 behind where I'd expect.
I don't find AC to be SUPER valuable, but I don't like to be too under par. I think I spent more on saves and offense than AC overall.
For offense I've got the weapon (+2 Furious Courageous Earthbreaker), Belt of Physical Might (Str and Con) and possibly the Headband of Havoc (if I put it into Witch Hunter or something), Saves I've got the Headband of Wisdom, Cloak of Resistances (+3), Belt (Con raises Fort, of course), possibly Headband of Havoc (if I use it for Superstition) and for AC I've got my armor (+3 Breastplate), Ring of Protection, and Amulet of Natural Armor, and possibly Headband of Havoc (if used with Beast Totem) and then miscellaneous (Bag of Holding Type 2. Which I may get rid of or downgrade because I'm not carrying much and I have a high carrying capacity).
So that's all my gold tied up except 1k. If I got rid of the Bag of Holding I could upgrade the Amulet or Ring to +2, and have no gold left over.
My saves end up as: Fort +14, Ref +7, Will +8 with the Cloak, and higher with Superstition and the Rage bonus (boosted to +6 and +4 respectively with the weapon), so maybe I could afford to downgrade the Cloak to +2 as well and save another 5k that way? I dunno.
I've found that while AC is more consistently useful, having high saves, as well as resistances and immunities is better for those "Save or you're f~++ed" moments.
It is true that AC is not quite as valuable when you have DR. That would reduce the average damage you take by quite a bit, so avoiding damage is probably not the highest priority.
As for your level 12 rage power I'm pretty sure everyone would agree on this, Come and Get Me is the best choice. By far one of the best rage powers, especially with combat reflexes and even better with a reach weapon.
It allows you to make immediate AoO on opponents who make attacks on you. and yours go first! What this means is that if you knock them down first and kill them, before their attack resolves to start, they don't get an attack. This is also used during AoO's on you, so you can do an AoO on them before theirs. This is why combat reflexes is a good idea.
I went ahead and dropped the Bag of Holding and upgraded my Ring of Protection. So I've got 23 AC normally, 24 in Rage. 25 if I use the Headband of Havoc on Beast Totem instead of Superstition or summat.
Thanks Grizzly again for that one. I had no idea it existed but it's so VERSATILE if you take a lot of the "Better by level" Rage Powers.
And yeah, I couldn't fin anything that topped CaGM either. It really is too bad you can only have 1 totem though, I would've liked to have been able to get so angry I grew wings as well.
Unfortunately, Combat Reflexes won't do too much for me, since I've only got 12 Dex. Though I'm not really strapped for Feats any more so it's a definite option.
Well, even with a dex 12 you can still get a dex boosting belt +6, to give you a 18 dex. That will net you a total of 5 AoO. Not exactly high, but decent enough to matter. Also, if you can later afford it, most likely past 12 levels, the book for inherent bonuses, to get another +4 dex, to give you another 2 AoO that round., total now 7 AoO.
I'm a big fan of Come and get me + Beast Totem + Reckless Abandon + Dazing Assault. Basically, with the Totem + Reckless Abandon you get a attack bonus while the AC penalty is negated by the totem. Use the attack bonus to hit more often while using dazing assault. And with come and get me, you have a chance of dazing your opponent BEFORE he even gets off his first attack.
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As far as I can decipher about languages, Common is pretty much Taldane, as listed on p. 251 of the Inner Sea World Guide.
Common (Taldane): One of the oldest languages still in use in the Inner Sea Region, Taldane is also the most widely spoken in the area, and is used as a common tongue.
Taldor is the decaying empire that ruled over much of the Inner Sea region back in the early days of the Age of Enthronement (Up until about 4000), so it can correspond to the Roman Empire of our own world. Cheliax ascendant as Taldor declined, in the southern part of Avistan.
ISWG has much to say on the subject, including that people of Chelish and Taldan descent only start with Common, and no other languages.
Edit: changed 'learn' to 'start with' in the last sentence.
3.) Endurance
5.) Die Hard
Perhaps take one Level Unbreakable to get theese two Feats as classfeats ;-)
So I'm thinking now:
1.) Power Attack
3.) Trap Wrecker
5.)Extra Rage Power (Witch Hunter)
7.) Extra Rage Power (Spell Sunder)
9.) IronhideAny possible replacements for Ironhide, since I no longer need it as a prereq?[/url]I like ferocious tenacity or/and fight on
Keen scent is nice, too.
So I'm thinking now:
1.) Power Attack
3.) Trap Wrecker
5.)Extra Rage Power (Witch Hunter)
7.) Extra Rage Power (Spell Sunder)
9.) IronhideAny possible replacements for Ironhide, since I no longer need it as a prereq?
I like ferocious tenacity or/and fight on
Keen scent is nice, too.
So, we leveled up hella fast because we kinda skipped a good portion of Book 4 (or headed it off early anyway).
So I get Greater Rage (with a total +8 Str/Con because of you guys' awesome advice) and a new Feat (and a new language, but I think I can figure that one out myself this time, I know what languages need to be covered now).
But I'm torn between a few.
Destroyer's Blessing: Would allow me to essentially Rage Strength Surge Sunder spells for FREE! Sounds nice.
Raging Vitality: Retain Rage (and therefore Con bonus) below 0 HP, and an extra 11 HP while Raging. Not bad.
Dazing Assault: Make enemies unable to attack me back, or run away, or whatever for a round, sounds sweet. Though the -5 to-hit kinda hurts, I think.
Raging Vitality is I think the weakest option of the three, but it still has its merits I think. I'm actually not sure how much damage I should expect from the monsters, as I have yet to be hit by any of them (didn't get to participate in combat 1st session, spent the 2nd one Greater Invisible) but I don't think it's spectacular or our Monk/Alchemist who rolled low on ALL his HP would probably be dead by now.
Dazing Assault I hear is great, but that -5 sounds painful. If it were on the first attack only it'd be a no-brainer to me but these Giants apparently have crazy high ACs (I needed a 12+ to hit one of them on a Power Attack while invisible, though to be fair he was a boss of some kind) so it makes me nervous to take a -5 (or more if I want a decent damage) on every hit in a round.
So, any advice again?
Anybody?
I keep hearing how completely fantastic Dazing Assault can be. I just don't see it. Too many creatures will make their Fort save too often in my opinion. Of course, once they fail, it really is that good. Do you have Reckless Abandon? If so, I wouldn't be concerned with the -5 to hit penalty.
Raging Vitality is absolutely necessary unless you are an urban barbarian. I can't see a barbarian surviving without this feat.