Hello all,
So this is what I had in mind...
Monk with a Profession of Doctor. I feel that this would be super helpful to be a battle field medic and also support for the heavy hitters. The reason I would like to do Doctor for the Profession is because well The Monk doesn't get a Heal check.
I'm looking to present this to my GM and I wanted to get everyone's thoughts as to why or why not this wouldn't work. (I'm thinking he will be cool with it)
I'm thinking it would work because being a Doctor is a Profession. (simple)
Items to go in my type IV bag of holding to help with my profession...just to name a few and to show that this is a serous profession:
*Tent (after battle surgery if needed)
*Portable Alter (would call it an Alter...operating table would pay the gold price for this item
*Cure Wounds Potions
*Doctors Tools (not found in any book, took the price of thief MW tools)
*Alcohol to sanitize and sterilize
*Bandages
*Cots
*Fish Hook & Line for stitches
*Cloth for wraps and ties
(Please add items if you would like)
Thank you in advance for all the help.
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all I can think of now is Dr. McNinja
hate4seven wrote: Hello all,
So this is what I had in mind...
Monk with a Profession of Doctor. I feel that this would be super helpful to be a battle field medic and also support for the heavy hitters. The reason I would like to do Doctor for the Profession is because well The Monk doesn't get a Heal check.
I'm looking to present this to my GM and I wanted to get everyone's thoughts as to why or why not this wouldn't work. (I'm thinking he will be cool with it)
I'm thinking it would work because being a Doctor is a Profession. (simple)
Items to go in my type IV bag of holding to help with my profession...just to name a few and to show that this is a serous profession:
*Tent (after battle surgery if needed)
*Portable Alter (would call it an Alter...operating table would pay the gold price for this item
*Cure Wounds Potions
*Doctors Tools (not found in any book, took the price of thief MW tools)
*Alcohol to sanitize and sterilize
*Bandages
*Cots
*Fish Hook & Line for stitches
*Cloth for wraps and ties
(Please add items if you would like)
Thank you in advance for all the help.
Surgeons Tools. Scroll down as they are in alphabetical order.
Why not just take the Caretaker trait and use Heal? I don't really see the need to make a Profession skill duplicate Heal when the profession skill is more of general knowledge and earn money doing focus.
Grand Moff Vixen wrote: hate4seven wrote: Hello all,
So this is what I had in mind...
Monk with a Profession of Doctor. I feel that this would be super helpful to be a battle field medic and also support for the heavy hitters. The reason I would like to do Doctor for the Profession is because well The Monk doesn't get a Heal check.
I'm looking to present this to my GM and I wanted to get everyone's thoughts as to why or why not this wouldn't work. (I'm thinking he will be cool with it)
I'm thinking it would work because being a Doctor is a Profession. (simple)
Items to go in my type IV bag of holding to help with my profession...just to name a few and to show that this is a serous profession:
*Tent (after battle surgery if needed)
*Portable Alter (would call it an Alter...operating table would pay the gold price for this item
*Cure Wounds Potions
*Doctors Tools (not found in any book, took the price of thief MW tools)
*Alcohol to sanitize and sterilize
*Bandages
*Cots
*Fish Hook & Line for stitches
*Cloth for wraps and ties
(Please add items if you would like)
Thank you in advance for all the help.
Surgeons Tools. Scroll down as they are in alphabetical order. Lamontius - ...is this a name suggestion or ?? maybe it could work.
Grand Moff Vixen - Thank you... as you can see I completely missed that while looking it up. Literally to the point of yelling "HOW DO YOU NOT HAVE THIS??!!" but they do...so I take my yelling rampage back. Thanks again.
Imbicatus - I will be doing Monk of the Healing Hand and yes I would like to make some money off of this. Never played a monk before and I wanted to try something off the wall...well this is it. (3rd character ever)
Because Doctor Sounds cool! He didnt get his PFD Pathfinder Degree for nothing!
Dont forget a Hack Saw and an Iron
Thank you Reecy.
Imbicatus I see your point about just take the trait...I'll do that if the profession isn't allowed.
Thanks everyone...any other items or ideas?
I personally wouldn't allow it.
The Profession skill is for making money and answering questions about a field, not replicating another skill entirely.
There are traits that allow you to pick up most skills as a class skill (and I personally just say "take a trait, pick up a new class skill").
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"That's Doctor hate4seven! I didn't go to eight years of Monk Medical school to be called 'Mister'."
And SteelDraco - Profession (doctor) is a skill dedicated to making money. It includes all sorts of things Heal doesn't, such as forming a health-care cartel, using the Code of Illegibility to pass secret messages to herbalists, making people in agony wait for hours while you check their insurance status, double-billing, and accepting bribes to use overpriced medicines in place of cheap, readily-available herbs.
(Good thing I'm not bitter about the health care system, or I might say something scathing, eh?)
I agree with the earlier posters. Profession (Doctor) is about hiring the right nurses and knowing which patients can afford to pay the most.
SteelDraco wrote: I personally wouldn't allow it.
The Profession skill is for making money and answering questions about a field, not replicating another skill entirely.
There are traits that allow you to pick up most skills as a class skill (and I personally just say "take a trait, pick up a new class skill").
Thank you SteelDraco. The reason I would like to do this is yes to make money where and when I can, but if it isn't worth the effort (ie not a good return on investment) I completely see your point.
plus Cleric is the "doctor"...just looking to build something different.
thanks for the help Lincoln Hills...I think.
I'm going to say not really. Need to keep the lawful thing going and our system of Healthcare isn't so trying to stay away from your experiences and post.
Fair enough!
Is this for PFS? Because for regular campaign use I can't imagine a GM saying "you can't make off-time money from Heal, because it's technically not a Profession."
As far as your list of items: I'd probably include a small, field-size brazier and some firewood, as well as a couple of iron pots. (Fire and sterilized water both come in handy for your work.) Come to that, a few waterskins of good clean water - or a container so a divine-caster friend can fill it up - is also a good notion. I didn't see blankets on your list, but I'd imagine you're carrying a few in the bag anyway. 'Crafter's tools' for a doctor will probably include material for sutures, by the way, although explicitly having that fishing line is probably just as well in case you find a use for it other than surgery. Budget permitting, a few vials of antitoxin and antiplague (APG) are probably a good investment too.
I wouldn't allow this because you're simply trying to game the system by replicating the effects of an already existing skill by renaming it Profession(Doctor). Profession skills are used to make money, you can answer questions about the health care industry and system. It doesn't however actually make you capable of performing any healing and you would require the Heal skill to do so.
Besides, you get to add your Wisdom modifier to it (which should be high as a monk), and as noted you can take a trait to get Heal as a class skill which is really what you're complaining about. It's a small matter of a +3, which wont matter much once you make it to level 5 or so.
Also, by the time you hit level 3 or so no one wants to wait around for natural healing (even healing modified by the heal ability). It takes too long and wont do much to the damage caused by multiple combats. Its generally most effective to invest (as a group) in wands of Cure Light Wounds for out of combat healing.
I don't know: PF allows the Heal skill to 'treat deadly wounds,' and I've never been so high-level that restoring hit points at no cost in spell expenditure was entirely out of style...
Also you should REALLY re-think the monk of the healing hand archetype. 2 ki points on an interruptable full round action to heal 14 hitpoints at level 7 is a really bad ability. Playing a non-magical healer is a cool concept but the monk ability is terrible.
Not sure if you are playing PFS.
In PFS you can use your Heal skill as your job roll. You just have to obtain a "Temple Membership" for 4PP.
And if this is not a PFS then I don't see why the GM would care whether you use heal or anything else. In PFS, that's the only way to use Heal in your Day Job roll.
Lincoln Hills wrote: I don't know: PF allows the Heal skill to 'treat deadly wounds,' and I've never been so high-level that restoring hit points at no cost in spell expenditure was entirely out of style... Well, the problems with treating deadly wounds are you can only do it once per day per creature, it heals an insulting small amount of hitpoints (1 per level), and it takes an hour to perform.
Claxon wrote: I wouldn't allow this because you're simply trying to game the system by replicating the effects of an already existing skill by renaming it Profession(Doctor). Profession skills are used to make money, you can answer questions about the health care industry and system. It doesn't however actually make you capable of performing any healing and you would require the Heal skill to do so.
Besides, you get to add your Wisdom modifier to it (which should be high as a monk), and as noted you can take a trait to get Heal as a class skill which is really what you're complaining about. It's a small matter of a +3, which wont matter much once you make it to level 5 or so.
Also, by the time you hit level 3 or so no one wants to wait around for natural healing (even healing modified by the heal ability). It takes too long and wont do much to the damage caused by multiple combats. Its generally most effective to invest (as a group) in wands of Cure Light Wounds for out of combat healing.
Claxon - I wasn't complaining just looking for insight but now you'll see complaining...I couldn't disagree more on your take of Profession Doctor or Office Clerk as you have now lowered it to. Plus if you say that Profession Doctor can't perform and that this would only allow me to answer question about a healthcare system (completely annoyed that this is constantly brought up because it has no relevance to the topic). with that being said then if i'm following your logic which I am...because profession doctor has no "skills" **just answers questions** then profession cook, blacksmith, trap maker, etc...they all have no "skills" they can answer questions like what temperature do you boil an egg, what chemical can be added to iron to make steel, or how man pounds of pressure do you need in this spring release bar trap to catch and hold a dragon...
This is what you are saying for all professions... this is where people are wrong. if this is the "acceptable" case on this SKILL then Profession should be changed to Help Desk:________ (insert BS)
If I wanted to "GAME" the system I would pick the trait and run the game with heal this and that and myself because I would be able to heal myself at that point, something that this theme is going to sacrifice by going down this path. Thank you for the broken advantage.
I'll be entering the game at level 13/14 not sure yet and this isn't to be used as a be all end all healer like clerics are used for... this if for in battle use or boost right after. It is used for quick HP replacements. This build is like a field medic...reduce the damage taken and get back into the fight.
So going back to the Skill "Not being a Skill" that would mean that profession and craft and preform all are not skills and you are just tossing points into them so you can answer questions...do you see the logic in that. Craft Arrows: Yup i know how but i really can't but I can tell you how but I can't show you how.
Plus you are forgetting you can bring people back to life at 11th level.
with no cap to a Ki pool...how the hell do you not have tons of points to heal someone. Don't burn Ki just to burn points. sure have cure light and all that jazz.
I would say no to this. If you look at the description of the Profession skill, it provides a list of the most common professions and "Doctor" is not among them. I know, there can be a profession for just about anything, but when other skills perform the same duties, It would be natural to assume that you use those, otherwise, what's the point?
There isn't a Perform (Juggling) because you use sleight of hand. There isn't a Profession (Tracker) because you have Survival. If another does what you're looking for, just use that.
hate4seven wrote: I'm looking to present this to my GM and I wanted to get everyone's thoughts as to why or why not this wouldn't work. (I'm thinking he will be cool with it) No, I would not allow it. Profession checks are designed to make money and do the day to day basics of your profession--they do not duplicate the effects of other jobs.
You cannot use Profession: Merchant to Appraise, you cannot use Profession: Conman to Bluff, you cannot use Profession: Hunter to track people or find food and water, and you definitely cannot use Profession: Doctor to duplicate the effects of Heal checks.
If you were in my game, however, I'd happily add Heal to the Monk's class skill list (and in fact did just that for a PC in a game I am currently running). He quickly realized, though, that being a nonmagical healer was not going to work without the Battlefield Surgeon trait anyway, so it didn't matter.
hate4seven wrote: I'm thinking it would work because being a Doctor is a Profession. (simple) It is a profession, true. Actually healing HP and curing diseases and stuff, however, is not. Being good at X and being good at making money for doing X are totally different skill sets.
You can complain all you want. By RAW in order to heal without magic you must have the heal skill. Profession checks are used to make money, that's they way the game has it set up. Be angry about it all you want, but someone with profession blacksmith can't actually smith anything according to game rules without also having ranks in craft(weaponsmith/armorsmith/etc-smith). That's just how it works.
Also note that the provided examples for profession include: architect, baker, barrister, brewer, butcher, clerk, cook, courtesan, driver, engineer, farmer, fisherman, gambler, gardener, herbalist, innkeeper, librarian, merchant, midwife, miller, miner, porter, sailor, scribe, shepherd, stable master, soldier, tanner, trapper, and woodcutter. Note that doctor isn't on that list.
The problem with Monk of the healing hand is a combination of Ki points and action economy. Ki points absolutely do have a limit unless you are also a drunken monk. Your ki pool is at level 13/14 will be 6 or 7 plus your wisdom mod, so lets say 11. You can use those points for much better things like a bonus to AC or an extra attack as a vanilla monk. If you are also Qinggong, you can do so much more.
Added to that is action economy. To heal someone else is a full round action that can be interrupted. It is simply not useful in combat. Out of combat is better served by a wand of CLW. It sounds cool but it's a trap. It isn't reliable and it's a waste of resources that are better used elsewhere.
Raise dead takes all of your ki for the day and has an hour cast time, while the spell takes a minute. Its a good backup if your cleric/oracle dies, but it the worst possible way to cast raise dead. Oh, and the Ki Sacrifice ability lets you cast the spell, not use it as a spell-like ability, so you still need the 5000 gp diamond.
Albatoonoe - thank you for the insight
mplindustries - thank you for the explanation & possible solution.
Claxon - Thank you for clearing it up that Doctor isn't on that list. This is what I wanted to ask the GM about.
Imbicatus - thank you, I guess I really didn't look into it like that, thank you. Also that you for suggestion of Qinggong.
Thanks everyone!
Oh, my pleasure. Glad I could help.
i am an alchemist (Chirurgeon) i have taken the trait precise treatment which makes heal an int check and Classically Schooled as such i have spent my young life being trained to be a doctor. taking the Profession (Doctor) it is the principle of the thing. i just wanted listed as something on my character so i can call my self a doctor and not some healer and mistaken for some schmuck bound to some gods will. a healer knows how to heal. a doctor understands why/how it works a doctor would have to take knowledge (anatomy) to get more points in doctor i would think ...... >.> would it work better as a feat doctor since it is such a feat to become one? i would be happy with a feat doctor is there one? see what i did there i typed myself into a different direction.but then you would have to study elven anatomy to become an elven doctor....may be they don't wana touch doctor with a ten foot pole because it is such a web of things to make it work. but i still want to be called a doctor and not a healer two different sorta things things. well this is a dead discussion anyways.
Why not do both?
Have the Profession: Doctor skill so you can saw people's arms off and make them pay for it....
And take the Trait for the Heal skill.
You could be the monk that cures people by punching them :)
hate4seven wrote: Monk with a Profession of Doctor. I feel that this would be super helpful to be a battle field medic and also support for the heavy hitters. The reason I would like to do Doctor for the Profession is because well The Monk doesn't get a Heal check. Lets be a bit more accurate, Monks have the same access to the Heal skill as anyone else, you just want that +3 class skill bonus, so you're trying to squeeze a Profession skill into the Heal skill.
mplindustries wrote: Profession checks are designed to make money and do the day to day basics of your profession--they do not duplicate the effects of other jobs.
...and you definitely cannot use Profession: Doctor to duplicate the effects of Heal checks.
So what you're saying is that someone with Profession: Doctor but no ranks in Heal is essentially Dr. Nick?
Xexyz wrote: mplindustries wrote: Profession checks are designed to make money and do the day to day basics of your profession--they do not duplicate the effects of other jobs.
...and you definitely cannot use Profession: Doctor to duplicate the effects of Heal checks.
So what you're saying is that someone with Profession: Doctor but no ranks in Heal is essentially Dr. Nick? He's that doctor in the Wild West whose treatments include having a parrot peck out your blood and driving a spike into your ear.
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