Goblin Squad Member
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Guard duty can be a pretty tedious task. Long periods of boredom interrupted by brief moments of panic. Most of the time, you're going to be standing there and if someone who you don't immediately recognize approaches, you stop them, question them, and either let them pass or drive them away (or maybe shuffle them off this mortal coil).
If someone is using a disguise with a random name associated with it, then they'll probably be fairly easy to pick out of a crowd. This puts a damper on assassination attempts.
The question comes down to... how do you make things more interesting for guard duty and give a viable cover for assassins to plot their schemes?
My answer: PvE!
So, while you're on guard duty, you'll have NPCs randomly come to gain entrance into your fair city. Some of them will be "fellow citizens" which you can allow to pass. Others might be bandits, spies, thieves, vigilantes, wanted men, etc whom you will want to either turn away or capture for a reward.
This gives a guard something to actively do instead of just camping his character at the gate and putting on a season of Game of Thrones on the other monitor. Their ability to let through good citizens and turn away bad ones can reflect on their duty report to whomever is fitting the bill for their guard services.
This means a guard will need high checks in the equivalent of perception, sense motive, and knowledge (local) to tell the difference between bandits and citizens.
I hear you ask, "Where do assassins come in?" Easy. If you've got NPCs occasionally trying to gain entrance to the city "to do business" then the assassin can just turn on their "NPC Reactions" button and pretend to be an NPC. This will let them aim their character, but otherwise it will react like one of these NPCs from the guards perspective. Someone who has put a lot of effort into their guard duties (head of the town watch) might see through the Assassin's disguise more easily than a rookie on the job.
Anyway, this is my idea on how to make guard duty an active job and also give Assassins a better way to sneak in undetected.
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Goblin Squad Member
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I think this is a great idea, but remember, not everyone in disguise is an assassin. What about a merchant scout who comes in to "scout" the market? What about a spy to scan for weaknesses for an future attack? Maybe someone just doesn't like to be known by their "real" name? There are many reason to enter a town wearing a disguise. Just wanted to point that out.
Side note, While this is a great Idea and could lead to some interesting fun for those standing watch, have to keep in mind this would be extra work for the devs and that would make the game take longer to come out. Also to add to that, what about towns who don't have anyone watching? Or what about in the "off-hours" that not many people are on?
I love this idea, but am playing devil's advocate just to make sure it is a good, sound idea.
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Goblin Squad Member
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@Milo: This is just idea fodder for the devs to do with as they will. If they think it's crap, they'll toss it out. If they like it, they'll file it away for later.
They know what they're planning to do. They might even have already thought about something similar to this. Who knows.
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As for the disguise portion of your discussion, I surely hope that these disguises are not that easy to see through as any pattern that would distinguish this PCs activity from any other PC acting regularly would entirely defeat the purpose of the disguise, especially if the person checking them already failed their perception/sense motive to discover their identity.
There is no reason why PCs should't be able to dress up and transmit a disguise that treats a CN human rogue like a LG half-elf wizard given he has the proper disguise and skill. If rogues move in a specific way/speed, then the disguise should automatically alter these so they match the disguise.
On the other hand it would be nice PCs could "play it cool" and enter a settlement under the disguise of a NPC, and have his gear, movements, speed, and general affect replicate these. There are plenty of games on the market where commoners, NPC merchants, and even guards are milling around everywhere. Sure the person can break their disguise by jumping around, talking, or attacking someone but letting the system be where someone watching can obviously pick out the phoneys even after losing their skill check is WORSE than not implementing a disguise skill at all, as the developers programming time has been wasted when it could otherwise be put to good use.
As for guards, I can see a type of busywork being done at all of the city entrances and important checkpoints, checking people for paperwork, disallowed magic items weapons, or contraband should provide the player who wants to play the guard with things to do. I can see perception and sense motive being vital skills to this player. If they spot someone or something that is out of order they can either choose to confiscate the goods, turn the person away if they dont trigger a thief/assassin/criminal tag, or arrest/attack them if certain requirements aren't met.
This also gives players a chance to reasonably bribe other PC guards, who in turn can eventually even face the consequences of these actions should the be caught.
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Goblin Squad Member
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Virgil,
The first issue that came to mind for me was that from what I understand, NPCs are going to be pretty rare in-game. I believe this is because GW doesn't want to clutter the world with extra bodies that the server has to track. Having a steady stream of NPCs walking through the gates of every player-run settlement seems to run counter to that plan.
Though it wouldn't give the player guard as much to do, my suggestion for disguises would be to allow players the ability to choose their own names when they initiate the disguise function using the same naming policy/mechanic as usual (names are unique, certain flagged words/numbers/etc. are not allowed, and so forth).
Speaking personally if I was flying the enforcer flag which I believe is the guard duty you speak of having to deal with npc's would irritate me. I would much rather that players can personalise disguises, it makes them much more useful. There are many more reasons to use a disguise than simple assassination, uses which involve interacting with other players in non combat situations.
In addition I don't think settlements are going to be having players stuck on the gate as most of the elements are covered by automatic flagging of trespassers who are barred by settlement rules. I suspect most will be flying an enforcer flag only while they would be in the settlement normally rather than as part of some specific guard roster.
Bottom line I guess for me, Enforcer is a pvp flag. It therefore seems not a good fit for it being a gate to pve.
Guard duty is going to be inanely boring and silly if we just stand at the gates all day. The only case I've ever seen of anything similar was from a game called Age of Wushu - a PvP centric game if there ever was one. Each character belonged to a martial arts 'school' and PC's regularly tried to come into your school to steal martial arts skills books and sensitive information from your school. If you were flagged as a guard, there was a system in place to allow you to detect thieves and if a thief attempted to steal in your LoS, both of you were automatically flagged for PvP - very similar to some of the talk of what will go in between thieves and assassins and guards in PFO.
I'm hoping there is a similar system in place to make guard duty less boring. Yes, there needs to be people around to keep an eye out for raids and all manner of things. However, as someone who has done security work in real life for a while(back in my late teens, early twenties) I can tell you that it is dreadfully boring. There really needs to be something going on to encourage PvP interactions or such a job will be dreadfully dull.
More information is definitely needed about this topic.
Can anyone tell me where this idea we will have need of pc guards standing around has actually come from out of interest? I don't believe I have read anything that could lead to that conclusion.
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Goblin Squad Member
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@Zen: That's the heart of the question: Agree. I think Guards! Guards! will actually be doing other things but when called on eg settlement militia, will be to hand easily as it's their turn and hence they'll be crafting etc en situ. Conversely contracts going out with merchants will be very active I suspect (if my bandit brain is informing me correctly!).
The real crux of guards seems similar to:
“They may be called the Palace Guard, the City Guard, or the Patrol. Whatever the name, their purpose in any work of heroic fantasy is identical: it is, round about Chapter Three (or ten minutes into the film) to rush into the room, attack the hero one at a time, and be slaughtered. No one ever asks them if they want to.
This book is dedicated to those fine men.”
IE Guards should be a very interesting role in a mmo game not the above in a single-player game!
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Goblin Squad Member
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The idea of guards stemmed from hiring PCs to protect merchants and also work sites. I've assumed they would be needed in a state of war (mercenary company anyone?) to guard a settlement, but I guess Virgil is going that extra step and saying they may potentially be wanted 24x7.
If people are willing to pay, I'm sure there will be takers. One of my character concepts is a 'hedge knight' of sorts, so I might even fall into the category of these takers.
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Goblin Squad Member
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Well, you've got your settlement's PvP window which will significantly reduce the number of NPC guards you have available. The wider you make this window, the bigger your settlement can be.
You may eventually set it so wide that you need PC guards virtually all the time or at least for significantly large portions of time. Caravans need to be protected from banditry. Work sites need to be protected against claim jumpers.
You could probably hire NPC guards for each of these things, but NPC guards might more expensive. Or you're working on something extremely valuable and just need the extra protection.
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Goblin Squad Member
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Ahah! I think I've found the thread Bluddwolf intended to post this in. Not that I mind another bump :)
Having done more than my fair share of guard duty I can tell you, it is boring almost all of the time, and it is hoped to be by the powers that be.
Banditry or Piracy, based on the use of an ambush, is similar to guard duty. Most of the time it is "wait and hope". Wait minutes, even an hour, for a target to come by and then hope it is a reward worth the risk.
The ideas of having PCs actively guard and monitor player traffic in and out of a settlement strikes me as being a play style / activity that few will find appealing. Players will not likely provide the frequency of content to make it viable.
Bandits will not have the same problem in that they are not looking for a wrong doer, they are looking for a player doing the right thing ( traveling). Bandits can adjust their opportunity for targets by moving closer to settled hexes, but this brings more risk.
There could be a PvE solution to the potential boredom. It might already be planned as part of the Escalation system that NPC / Monster Mobs will make attempts to infiltrate settlements or travel roads as part of a neutral or good escalation.
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Goblin Squad Member
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Ahah! I think I've found the thread Bluddwolf intended to post this in. Not that I mind another bump :)
Having done more than my fair share of guard duty I can tell you, it is boring almost all of the time, and it is hoped to be by the powers that be.
Banditry or Piracy, based on the use of an ambush, is similar to guard duty. Most of the time it is "wait and hope". Wait minutes, even an hour, for a target to come by and then hope it is a reward worth the risk.
The ideas of having PCs actively guard and monitor player traffic in and out of a settlement strikes me as being a play style / activity that few will find appealing. Players will not likely provide the frequency of content to make it viable.
Bandits will not have the same problem in that they are not looking for a wrong doer, they are looking for a player doing the right thing ( traveling). Bandits can adjust their opportunity for targets by moving closer to settled hexes, but this brings more risk.
There could be a PvE solution to the potential boredom. It might already be planned as part of the Escalation system that NPC / Monster Mobs will make attempts to infiltrate settlements or travel roads as part of a neutral or good escalation.
How the heck did that happen??? I was not in the Recruitment Thread at all.
Thanks for the pick up Nihimon.
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Goblin Squad Member
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I assume Gate Guard Duty will be done by the NPC Guards of the Settlement.
I assume PC Guards will operate for worksites which most definitely be attracting mobs (goblins, wolves, etc) giving the PC Guards something fun/interesting to do on a regular basis.
I also assume that PC Guards may be hired for high value caravan protection. This may end up being a little boring but probably will pay well and depending upon the area traveled through may also offer the opportunity for PVE encounters.
I don't think you'll find PC Guards doing routiene duty for low/medium value caravans very often nor for gates (except maybe during times of active combat) nor for worksites in areas relatively safe areas that aren't expected to draw much bandit or mob attraction.....it's not likely going to be economical to pay a live person the rates they would demand for that, as people will only be willing to perform such duty in a game if they are getting paid very well or if there is alot of interesting action going on. YMMV.
Edit: I expect settlements or merchant consortiums may hire mercenary companies of "bandit hunters" to actively sweep areas or trade routes they are using for bandits, bandit hideouts and mobs that might interfere with commerce. That's where alot of the PC's on this side of the law will be working....as that allows for active play and likely won't demand as high a price from players.