Prone while Dying?


Rules Questions


A pretty quick question, this one: are you prone when you're dying? And if you stop dying (you're forcefed a potion or something, f'rex), are you prone? Nothing in the rules seems to mention being prone as a result of Dying, Unconscious, or Helpless, but the common sense argument is, at worst, persuasive.


I think that kind of qualifies as one of those things that is self-evident and doesn't need to be said.

After you're healed above zero, you'll still be prone, but you can stand up if you wish.

Sczarni

Common sense is that you drop on the ground if someone hits you with a hammer so hard that you lose consciousness. You don't continue to stand.

If you want to RAW, while dying you are helpless. Helpless condition I believe says that you drop on the ground. Helpless flying creature loses their fly ability for a moment and drops on the ground.

Liberty's Edge

Rules as Written no, there's nothing stated that you fall prone.

Except if you consider the following "A helpless target is treated as having a Dexterity of 0 (–5 modifier)" to mean the character actually has 0 Dex and thus cannot move and falls prone. But creatures affected by hold person also have a Dex of 0 effectively but don't fall.

Liberty's Edge

Malag wrote:

Common sense is that you drop on the ground if someone hits you with a hammer so hard that you lose consciousness. You don't continue to stand.

If you want to RAW, while dying you are helpless. Helpless condition I believe says that you drop on the ground. Helpless flying creature loses their fly ability for a moment and drops on the ground.

Technically not

Quote:

Helpless

A helpless character is paralyzed, held, bound, sleeping, unconscious, or otherwise completely at an opponent's mercy. A helpless target is treated as having a Dexterity of 0 (–5 modifier). Melee attacks against a helpless target get a +4 bonus (equivalent to attacking a prone target). Ranged attacks get no special bonus against helpless targets. Rogues can sneak attack helpless targets.

As a full-round action, an enemy can use a melee weapon to deliver a coup de grace to a helpless foe. An enemy can also use a bow or crossbow, provided he is adjacent to the target. The attacker automatically hits and scores a critical hit. (A rogue also gets his sneak attack damage bonus against a helpless foe when delivering a coup de grace.) If the defender survives, he must make a Fortitude save (DC 10 + damage dealt) or die. Delivering a coup de grace provokes attacks of opportunity.

Creatures that are immune to critical hits do not take critical damage, nor do they need to make Fortitude saves to avoid being killed by a coup de grace.

You get a bonus as if they're prone but they're not actually prone (and it doesn't say if that stacks with actually being prone)


I suppose it would depend. You could be pinned to a wall by a spear for example (sucks to be you).


I chalk this up to the same "dead pc's can still take actions" argument. If you are dying, you are unconscious. If you are unconscious, it is common sense that you are unable to remain standing while unconscious. Just like it is common sense that you are unable to take actions while dead.

The Exchange

Actually, I believe it's the unconscious status that causes you to fall prone - rather than the dying status. Ordinarily they occur at the same instant, of course, but there are exceptions like a half-orc's ferocity or somebody running on Diehard - they're "dying" but not unconscious, right?


I agree with the others who've said that you fall to the ground unless otherwise supported up by something. Gravity takes affect, now the hold person means that your muscles lock up and you can't move, you don't fall to the ground because you are still supported by them and not unconscious.

I really don't think there needs to be a RAW for this as RAI and common sense is enough. It's like asking what the meaning of "is" is...


Pathfinder Adventure Path, Lost Omens, Rulebook, Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber
Lincoln Hills wrote:
Actually, I believe it's the unconscious status that causes you to fall prone - rather than the dying status.

Amusingly, no it doesn't:

Quote:
Unconscious: Unconscious creatures are knocked out and helpless. Unconsciousness can result from having negative hit points (but not more than the creature's Constitution score), or from nonlethal damage in excess of current hit points .

However, common sense says that the unconscious condition should result in the victim being knocked prone. I've certainly always treated it as happening, anyway.

The Exchange

It's probably good that they didn't spell it out: otherwise, the first guy to get knocked unconscious in zero gravity or underwater (and see some advantage in being prone) would insist that his PC was sucked against the floor by the Power of Unconsciousness.


If you're dying (ie unconscious, knocked out, helpless, 0 Dexterity) and you're on the Material Plane, gravity pulls your body to the ground.

Material Plane: The Material Plane tends to be the most Earth-like of all planes and operates under the same set of natural laws that our own real world does.

Normal gravity pulls you to the ground. If you can no longer support yourself in a standing position, you fall to the ground prone.

Without this "natural laws" rule, one could argue that I shouldn't fall when a pit opens under my feet. Sure, there's a falling rule, but there's nothing that states when I fall.


Lincoln Hills wrote:
It's probably good that they didn't spell it out: otherwise, the first guy to get knocked unconscious in zero gravity or underwater (and see some advantage in being prone) would insist that his PC was sucked against the floor by the Power of Unconsciousness.

Thanks, that made me smile.

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