Prestige classes are allowed, they just take up both "slots" when using Gestalt rules.
Example
Side A: Wizard 10
Side B: Cleric 10
Both Sides: Mystic Theurge 10
Level: 20Or
Side A: Fighter 6
Side B: Ranger 6
Both Sides: Horizon Walker 1
Level: 7
Where does it state that about non-"gestalt" PrC. I Get the Wiz / Cle / MT, But the other would be a Fighter 7 / Ranger 6 HW 1. I though you could not do 2 PrC at the sametime, & MT type PrC are not used, but you still used the normal rules?
The only hard rule is no doing two prc at the same time
It is suggested to not allow things like mystic thurge
The person you are quoting was misinformed/in error
O.K. good just checking. And I never did understood the "No 2 PrC Levels at the same time" thing anyway. How is that any different than 2 normal levels??
maybe they thought two prc classes would allow you to be too specialized? That is essentially the idea behind prestiges right, specialization. Gestalt is kind of the opposite of that.
I never did understood the "No 2 PrC Levels at the same time" thing anyway. How is that any different than 2 normal levels??
its largely because the gestalt rules are coming from 3.X edition D&D where PrCs were supposed to be stronger than base classes, so it legitimately was a difference- in pathfinder they've deliberately tried to rebalance base classes so that PrCs are equal in power level to them but with unique/interesting powers not available through base classes (usually by making the PrC more focused than a base class on one particular thing), so it shouldn't be a big difference now (although hybrid classes like mystic theurge or eldritch knight can still be abused in gestalt).
Couldn't you do better with summoner?umm... earlier in this thread i already posted what i'm pretty sure is the best possible (legal) mount build- at least the best i've seen so far...
its right here, in case you missed it :)
(its a full progression animal companion that gains rage, all three beast totem rage powers, and all the benefits of the monastic mount ability of a 14th level sohei- plus the rider ain't half bad, lol)
hmmm... if you're only looking at the mount (and not the rage-pounce-lance-flurry death machine potentially riding it), probably? eidolons are fairly broken. you'd have to go full summoner on one side; on the other you could do barb 4 for ferocious mount/sohei 16 for monastic mount goodness (with Extra Rage a couple times)- the eidolon should already have pounce and max natural attacks, so its not gaining as much as an animal companion but it is bringing more to the table to start... i guess for fairness you'd really need to go barb 10/sohei 10 so that they rider still has rage-lance-pounce-flurry... the rider loses some BAB/hp (since the 10 summoner/sohei levels are d8s with 3/4 BAB), the bonuses from challenge, and the ability to add the mount's Str bonus on his rage-pounce-lance-flurry, but having a 6/9 caster might make up for that?
I'm currently building a gestalt character, looking for a bit of assistance, mostly in trying to help involve a lovely little bit of Dragony goodness with Dragon Disciple.
So, the plan is to take Magus and Barbarian (or some other martial class), and take Dragon Disciple in addition to that.
Stats will probably end up as follows(before race, which also is :
Str: 18
Dex: 12
Con: X (probably decent, 14 or 16?)
Int: X (also high, probably around 14 or 16 as well if possible)
Wis: 8 (not changing this around, I have to take an 8 somewhere due to how ability scores are arranged, and Wis seemed good.)
Cha: 15
The annoying part will be combining Magus and Barbarian, and when to start the DD levels. I have to wait until after level 5, but what to do with them... (thinking about replacing some Magus and some Barbarian levels, but what the mix should be is unclear.)
I'm also taking Improved Eldritch Heritage to get a lovely +6 inherent bonus to Strength and claws from the Abyssal bloodline.
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I was just about to post an edited version in our recruitment thread, but it'd fit better here
I'm currently building a gestalt character, looking for a bit of assistance, mostly in trying to help involve a lovely little bit of Dragony goodness with Dragon Disciple.
So, the plan is to take Magus and Barbarian (or some other martial class), and take Dragon Disciple in addition to that.
Stats will probably end up as follows(before race, which also is :
Str: 18
Dex: 12
Con: X (probably decent, 14 or 16?)
Int: X (also high, probably around 14 or 16 as well if possible)
Wis: 8 (not changing this around, I have to take an 8 somewhere due to how ability scores are arranged, and Wis seemed good.)
Cha: 15The annoying part will be combining Magus and Barbarian, and when to start the DD levels. I have to wait until after level 5, but what to do with them... (thinking about replacing some Magus and some Barbarian levels, but what the mix should be is unclear.)
I'm also taking Improved Eldritch Heritage to get a lovely +6 inherent bonus to Strength and claws from the Abyssal bloodline.
there's a 3rd party magus archtype that gets rage
it's called primagus I think it's rather neat and quite flavorfulI love magi, espicially in gesalt, they just mesh so well with some of the other classes I was just talking about fun builds for them earlier this week
a couple detailed magus builds I find awesome (there were 2 others but it involved a prestige class that requires LG alignment) spoiled for length]
magus (blade bound, possibly kensi) 19-20/ageis 3/soulknife (gifted blade/shielded blade, possibly also armored blade) 6-7/soul forge 10/pyrokineticist 1
be sure to take the blade talent that makes it so you get full enchantment bonus on every item.
The ultimate archer build is fun
Ranger (trapper/falconer) 11 magus(Myrmidarch) 4, sorcerer (Orc maybe?) or wizard (evoker) 1, arcane archer 10, then go zen archer for the rest of itSo your arrows deal base damage as per your unarmed strike +enchantments+a touch spell+an aoe spell+a trap+stunning+any special non magical arrow ability/material you want, and there are several nice ones
Anyone you hit is kinda screwed
And you can flurry your arrows for more fun
Required magic items
Ki focus bow (and any other enchantment you want,) headband of +6 mental stats, quiver enchanted with continuous abundant ammunition, belt of the monk, robe of the monk
Just imagine, a flurry of shocking, holy, bestow curse, fireball bleeding adamanite arrows, with a beehive strapped to the ends, that hit as hard as a monk's fist and stun you,And if you're a drow, poison on top of that
and then there is magus/paladin (or anti-paladin)
barbarian builds
first one is simple barbarian/scared witch doctor, scared witch doctors use con to cast, barbarians boost con, this also works with alchemist
second one essentially is the hulk
alchemist (rage chemyst possibly +vivisectionist)/Barbarian (drunken brawler/wild rager) at lvl 7 multiclass to master chemist (PrC) 1 lvl dip in oracle, maybe battle mystery then advance that half with rage prophet
20th lvl total will look like
alchemist 1-7 alchemist 1-6 barbarian 7 oracle 8-17 master chemist 8-17 rage prophet 18-20 any combination of barbarian oracle and alchemist,
now then to get the dragon disciple you need to cast 1st lvl arcane spells without preparation so unless you use the primalist magus archetype you are going to need to dip into a spontaneous arcane casting class
one big thing to keep in mind if you don't use sorcerer as part of your gestalt, you are going to cap your dragon powers at sorcerer lvl 10, 14 with the robe of arcane heritage for both the acquisition of abilities and the level dependent effects
when something absolutely has to die in a round, I'd say take the archer from the previous post :P
sure you got a fair number of hits and sneak attack on top, very nice, though if I were taking that kind of build I would go with alchemist (vivisectionist) as you could boost your str for more damage
but with that archer build you have as many as 9 arrows 8 of which can have touch spells on them, 1 of which can have an aoe spell on it, one of which can have a ranger trap on it (for example a swarm or any 1st lvl spell, such as shocking grasp for another 5d6 damage,) all of which are enchanted, heavily, each of which do 2d6 base damage, each of which can have poison and can have special arrow properties, like +1 bleed damage, holy or unholy water, +1d6 fire the next round, +1d3 slashing to everyone nearby, tar (tangleshot arrow)+1d4 acid, a different poison, etc etc
not to mention favored enemy bonuses that may apply and stunning fist and other fist enhancing feats
I want to point out however that there was a typo in that build, ranger should be at lvl 10, not 11 (giving zen archer 5 lvls not 4)
@lord foul,
the way you post your builds makes no sense to me... is there any chance you can show which levels you're taking what things? also, it looks like you're using tons of 3PP (which some of us have never even seen before), do you think you could cite where stuff like that is coming from?
The thing with Primagus is that it doesn't really aid me. (Besides the fact that I like my standard Magus.) I still get Rage from Urban Barbarian. I'm debating whether or not I want to dip into a Lame Oracle to gain immunity to Fatigue, but that will end up harming my Magus unless I take it later on after I have Dragon Disciple to stop me from losing out on too much HP. (and BaB.)
I think progression will go somewhat like this:
Effectively what I want to end up with is a Magus with effectively full spell progression (at least 13 levels worth when you include DD), and as many Urban Barbarian levels as possible to buff Rage.
As well, I'm going to take advantage of the SLA FAQ to get access to DD without needing to take a spontaneous caster. Not sure which specific race I'm using, but probably one with a Strength bonus. (Half-Elf maybe, if I can figure out how to deal with Light Blindness.)
i don't really like barb/magus because you can't cast while raging (and controlled rage doesn't make any allowance for that)...
but, if you want a barb/dd build, think about possibly making a human, 1/2breed, or aasimar with scion of humanity- that way you can take racial heritage [kobold] which opens up some interesting dragon-flavored feats, plus a feat called scaled disciple that lets you qualify for DD with oracle instead of sorc (and increases oracle casting). you could take 5 levels of barb/lame oracle, then 10 levels of DD/barb, and then 5 more levels of whatever you want (barb oracle again, probably). you'd lose spell combat/spell strike which you couldn't combine with rage anyways and instead gain access to ninth level spells (well, 8th, if you go to DD 9 or 10) and the ability to cast in any armor (i guess some magi can do the armor thing already, but you get where im going)
Zen archer monk/Empyreal bloodline sorcerer. All my spellcasting goes into spells like gravity bow, true strike, then a few like mage armor and shield. Haste is a must, but yeah the entire point will be to have a SAD archer/caster.
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@lord foul,
the way you post your builds makes no sense to me... is there any chance you can show which levels you're taking what things? also, it looks like you're using tons of 3PP (which some of us have never even seen before), do you think you could cite where stuff like that is coming from?
I already said which levels are which in several of them
alchemist 1-7 alchemist 1-6 barbarian 7 oracle 8-17 master chemist 8-17 rage prophet 18-20 any combination of barbarian oracle and alchemist,
meaning
on one halflevls 1 through 7 you take alchemist with the rage chemist and vivisectionist archetypes and 8 through 17 you take master chemist
on the other half
levels 1 through 6 you take barbarian with the drunken brawler and wild rager archetypes then at lvl 7 take one level of oracle so you can qualify for the prestige class rage prophet which you take from 8th to 17th lvl
you then have 3 lvls on 2 sides not filled in which presumably you will fill with two of the three base classes
none of that is 3rd party and you can find it at D20pfsrd.com
likewise the archer build contains no 3rd party, though I'm not sure what order the classes should be taken
the magus/soulknive build uses psionics (obviously) which are done by dreamscared press and can be found at the same site,
or you could use the 3.5 version
magus (blade bound, possibly kensi) 19-20/ageis 3/soulknife (gifted blade/shielded blade, possibly also armored blade) 6-7/soul forge 10/pyrokineticist 1
be sure to take the blade talent that makes it so you get full enchantment bonus on every item.
on one side
lvl 1-20 or 1-6 and 8-20 (depending on archtype chosen and personal preference) take the magus class with the blade bound archetype possibly also the kensi archetypeon the other side
start with soul knife, take 3 lvls of it with the shielded blade gifted blade and possibly also the armored blade archetypes, then take 3 levels (lvls 4-6)of aegis to qualify you for the prestige class "soulforge". take that class for levels 7-16, finish off this side with more soul knife
depending on personal prefferance and archetype chosen add one level of pyrokineticist either as lvl 7 on the magus side or lvl 17 of the psionic side
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The thing with Primagus is that it doesn't really aid me. (Besides the fact that I like my standard Magus.) I still get Rage from Urban Barbarian. I'm debating whether or not I want to dip into a Lame Oracle to gain immunity to Fatigue, but that will end up harming my Magus unless I take it later on after I have Dragon Disciple to stop me from losing out on too much HP. (and BaB.)
I think progression will go somewhat like this:
Effectively what I want to end up with is a Magus with effectively full spell progression (at least 13 levels worth when you include DD), and as many Urban Barbarian levels as possible to buff Rage.
As well, I'm going to take advantage of the SLA FAQ to get access to DD without needing to take a spontaneous caster. Not sure which specific race I'm using, but probably one with a Strength bonus. (Half-Elf maybe, if I can figure out how to deal with Light Blindness.)
you can't rage and cast at the same time unless you are a "rage prophet"
I was saying take Primagus so you don't have to take barbarianhowever you can emulate a similar effect with an alchemist's mutagen
it would free you up do do something like
magus/soulknife (perhaps the previously mentioned super build)
or magus/sorcerer/dragon disciple
or some combination thereof
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i don't really like barb/magus because you can't cast while raging (and controlled rage doesn't make any allowance for that)...
but, if you want a barb/dd build, think about possibly making a human, 1/2breed, or aasimar with scion of humanity- that way you can take racial heritage [kobold] which opens up some interesting dragon-flavored feats, plus a feat called scaled disciple that lets you qualify for DD with oracle instead of sorc (and increases oracle casting). you could take 5 levels of barb/lame oracle, then 10 levels of DD/barb, and then 5 more levels of whatever you want (barb oracle again, probably). you'd lose spell combat/spell strike which you couldn't combine with rage anyways and instead gain access to ninth level spells (well, 8th, if you go to DD 9 or 10) and the ability to cast in any armor (i guess some magi can do the armor thing already, but you get where im going)
even better, you could take the rage prophet prestige class and get both rage and spells
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the hybrid PrCs are suggested to be disallowed
to the other part I agree, with the exception of a build of what I call the hulk build
in short
alchemist (rage chemist/vivisectionist), master chemist PrC/Barbarian (drunken brawler) (possibly 1vl oracle dip for rage priest)
and boom win
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nobody's posted in a while so I figure I'll update one of my favorite builds
a side not to my ultimate fighter build (the magus 20 soul knife 6 agies 3 soul forge 10 pyrokenetist 1)
it works similarity well with paladian and bard (arcane duelist)
those four work well in any combination but work best when a full BaB class is paired with a non full BaB class
paladian/magus you are the leader of the battle field, there is no purely combative thing you can not do at least a little (other than poison) between your divine casting, arcane casting, great saves, lay on hands and spell combat, you have combat versatility
palidan/bard this is the one with the most out of combat utility, it has higher utility than the others, has good healing prowess, not quite as offencivly capable as the magus version and but still a force to be reconed with
Magus 15 (Kensi/war weaver) abjurant champion 5 paladin 1-7 monk 3-9 (weapon adept, possibly also sohei) champion of ior 10: ultimate defencive build, good saves, excellent AC, great with a sword, decent unarmed attack
soulknife/magus my personal favorite especially when you do the shenanigans with soulforge and pyrokineticist
soulknife/bard ... pretty decent all around, would probably specialize in being the caster killer
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as a note, something I forgot to add,
the Paladin/bard is the most SAD (single attribute dependant), with the soulknife/magus a close second (first requires charisma as a primary stat, str as a secondary, second requires wisdom and intelligence about equal, given that wisdom is used as a to hit, damage and tertiary spellcasting, intelligence is for AC and magus arcana secondary spellcasting) whereas the defence build is the most MAD (multi attribute dependant) requiring just about every stat to a greater or lesser extent, especially the mental ones
I'm going with Ninja 20, Wizard 1, Arcane Archer 10, Shadowdancer 4, and Fighter 5.
Drop all feats into ranged abilities and also stealthy, skill focus (stealth), and extra ki, and Ninja tricks into range and stealth abilities including the ability to make sneak attacks at additional range...unless your DM is cool and lets you take the rogue sniper archetype-in which case...do that.
I've got a pretty merciless ranged Ninja build laying around here somewhere. Personally I would just add to that with some extra abilities.
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hmm stealth builds interesting
personally I would make that build as
catfolk ninja 20 sorcerer 1 arcane archer 10, arcane trickster 10 shadowdancer 1 eiher alchemist (vivisectionist) for more sneak attack and spellcasting goodness, or zen archer monk for flurry, more Ki and various archery related goodies for the remaining 8 levels
or
ninja/monk or shadow sorcerer/red mantis assassin/assassin/shadowdancer
take the feats: skill focus (stealth), stealthy, hellcat stealth, conceal sent, dampen presence, go unnoticed, Sow Terror
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I like this but it does not work in the standard version of gestalt, your prestige classes replaces both gestalt classes.nobody's posted in a while so I figure I'll update one of my favorite builds
a side not to my ultimate fighter build (the magus 20 soul knife 6 agies 3 soul forge 10 pyrokenetist 1)
it works similarity well with paladian and bard (arcane duelist)
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no no they don'tyou are suggested not to have any "hybrid" prestige classes, and are not to have 2 prestige classes at once
I can get you a link if you want
Psion/monk has been a concept that has always felt just right to me.
Same for paladin/monk.
I played a dwarven Monk Psychic Warrior gestalt in 3.5. Extremely effective. A high wisdom added to armor, and then there was the inertial armor power that is like a scaling mage armor. Add in the psionic versions of stat boosters and enlarge, plus the ability to enhance unarmed strikes, and I had a nigh unkillable death machine. Also, a Monk with psionic lion's charge is sickening. Can practically cross the whole battlefield in one round and gets a full flurry with a bonus to hit. Death by dwarf-slap. Insanely fun.
My other favorite gestalt is the barbarian / druid, but I didn't get to play him up to wild shape levels. That would have been very ugly in 3.5.
I don't really like the arcanist, feels weaker than the sorcerer,Have you checked out the Official-Query-Arcanist-Revision. This will make a lot of difference in the sorcerer thing plus changes the weaker sorcerer feel that was there in the initial preview. At least if they come through with it all.
I (and I think many people) allow or play with spell points so the Arcanist is pointless.
Magus/Psychic Combatant.
Magus/Psion.
Wizard-Ur priest Mystic Theurge/Psion.
Hexblade/Magus.
Magus/Rogue seems fun.
Druid/Necromancer.
Hexblade or Antipaladin/Enchanter or Fey Sorcerer.
Beguiler/Barbarian. Sneaky when you need to, brawly when it's time.
Half orc Shugenja (fire)/Sorcerer (fire elemental). FIIIIREEEEE.
Beguiler/Rogue.
Beguiler/Ninja.
Druid/Necromancer.
Though definitely do-able RAW I'm curious how to work out the Role play of that?
Someone with an obsession for animals, and loves them so much that he feels a need to bring them back?Though definitely do-able RAW I'm curious how to work out the Role play of that?
Druid/Necromancer.
Dunno. Undead are sort of Anti-nature.
At best I think maybe if you did a Yin Yang kind of thing.
I haven't seen anyone (other than you) ever allow/play with spell points, since DnD was still owned by TSR
Interesting. I know plenty of people who do, I guess we each travel in our own circles then.
Also I've seen at least a half dozen topics about it sprinkled across paizo's boards over the last few years, much fewer than other topics of course but it does come up.
I'm not going to make any arguments about it being balanced, I was just saying why I find no purpose to the arcanist.
As to the Gestalt, for the stealth build Ninja 20, wizard 1, etc, I went with Wizard instead of Sorcerer because I would put my second highest score into INT for the extra skill points, and CHA would be just at or above 10. I find ability points are better spent in other places, and a character that is doing ranged stealth doesn't have a need for a great number of feats so could spare a few for extra ki without sacrificing the lethality of the build.