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Sorry, all. I'm getting ready to play my first Magus, and I've been digging through the boards here, but unable to find a good, straight answer.
Chill touch, or any other spell with an ongoing Touch ability.
I cast it, use Spellstrike to deliver the first attack, granted as part of the casting. That's fine.
I can answer most of these with confidence.
In the following rounds, when I hit you with my sword, does that also activate Chill Touch?
Yes. You're still holding the charge, and spellstrike lets you deliver that charge when you hit with a melee weapon.
Can I use Spell Combat to continue to deliver Chill Touches? Not actually casting anything, but taking the -2 penalty, touching you with my off hand, then hitting with the sword?
...let me get back to you on that one.
If I cast another Touch spell, the remaining uses of Chill Touch go away, correct?
Correct, as per the rules for touch spells.
Should I just skip Chill Touch because of the funky mechanics involved?
Not because of the mechanics, no. Consider Rime Spell.
Can I use Spell Combat to continue to deliver Chill Touches? Not actually casting anything, but taking the -2 penalty, touching you with my off hand, then hitting with the sword?...let me get back to you on that one.
AFAICT, you can use two-weapon fighting with chill touch. Unlike 3.5, where, IIRC, a held touch spell was assigned to a specific hand, in PF, "you" are what's holding the charge. I can't fin any references to the contrary. You most certainly can use TWF to deliver 2 touch attacks in a round, and the held charge triggers on a succesful touch attack.
What you can't do is use spell combat to do your two-weapon fighting at -2/-2. The ability specifically and repeatedly speaks about casting a spell, not using abilities of a previously cast spell.
My take on the touch attack with chill touch in the "off" hand, and hitting with the sword would be no, because spell combat says that you are making your attacks, and "casting" a spell. Holding a charge of Chill Touch isn't casting a spell. Unless somebody convinced me otherwise, I wouldn't allow you to touch attack with Chill Touch and attack with your sword unless you had a high enough BAB to allow for two attacks, and were using the full attack action. That's my initial take anyway.
Edit: Ninja'd and I should have mentioned that I wouldn't let you do it without suffering normally applicable two-weapon fighting penalties.
I don't know if I am understanding your questiin entirely, but I'll try to answer as best I can. I will say though, don't ask for developer input. They have said in the past that many people can answer your questions without their involvement.
Can you spell combat to attack with your sword, cast a spell, then deliver the touch with a melee attack? Yes
Can you cast chill touch, hold the charge, then during another round, attack with your sword (discharging chill touch), then cast chill touch and deliver it with your other attack? Yes
I hope that answers your question.
I wouldn't let you do it without suffering normally applicable two-weapon fighting penalties.
TWF penalties are already factored into spellcombat.
Actually, let me clarify further why Spell Combat with a held Chill Touch doesn't give you more attacks: Spell Combat doesn't grant you any extra attacks. You get your normal attacks with your weapon hand, and you get to cast a spell. The thing that grants you an extra attack is the casting of a touch spell, as per the rules for touch spells.
Exactly. And spell strike allows you to substitute the free touch attack with a melee weapon attack. You can hold a charge and then spellcombat, or if you miss with the spell you can spell combat next turn which does allow you to chill touch twice in one round. It appears that is what the OP is asking.
"Before they open the door. I cast chill touch" is percectly legal and works as I described.
Yes. Spellstrike is separate from spell combat. You do not have to use spell combat in order to use spellstrike. You can attack with your sword, delivering the charge, and then move to the next target if that kills it. Since you can decide to not take a full-round action after your first attack, this is very useful.
Slightly offtopic: arcane mark is a must-have cantrip for magus as it gives you that extra attack with spell combat at-will even when you are out of spells.
Right. Spellstrike says you can deliver a spell through a sword attack when granted a free touch from casting a spell.
My concern comes from the rounds after the first, when you are no longer 'granted a free touch attack to deliver the spell'. After that first round, can you just attack with your sword to continue to deliver Chill Touches (not using spell combat or anything special)?
Yes. Spellstrike does that for you.
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Right. Spellstrike says you can deliver a spell through a sword attack when granted a free touch from casting a spell.
My concern comes from the rounds after the first, when you are no longer 'granted a free touch attack to deliver the spell'. After that first round, can you just attack with your sword to continue to deliver Chill Touches (not using spell combat or anything special)?
As I see it, the question is: Can Spellstrike be used to make the weapon do the touch on the later touches for Chill Touch. The first one is not in question.
Spellstrike (Su): At 2nd level, whenever a magus casts a spell with a range of “touch” from the magus spell list, he can deliver the spell through any weapon he is wielding as part of a melee attack. Instead of the free melee touch attack normally allowed to deliver the spell, a magus can make one free melee attack with his weapon (at his highest base attack bonus) as part of casting this spell. If successful, this melee attack deals its normal damage as well as the effects of the spell. If the magus makes this attack in concert with spell combat, this melee attack takes all the penalties accrued by spell combat melee attacks. This attack uses the weapon's critical range (20, 19–20, or 18–20 and modified by the keen weapon property or similar effects), but the spell effect only deals ×2 damage on a successful critical hit, while the weapon damage uses its own critical modifier.
The first sentence of the description seems to answer that, in agreement with Robert and Pupsocket.
Spell combat only give the -2 penalty during the Full round action that you use it in. Spell strike is a separate ability that that lets you deliver a weapon attack channeling the spell as part of the free touch granted by casting touch spells. Unfortunately the ability does not addresses subsequent touches. But consider this errata
http://paizo.com/paizo/blog/v5748dyo5ld3d?FAQ-Attack
"Can a magus use spellstrike (Ultimate Magic, page 10) to cast a touch spell, move, and make a melee attack with a weapon to deliver the touch spell, all in the same round?
Yes. Other than deploying the spell with a melee weapon attack instead of a melee touch attack, the magus spellstrike ability doesn’t change the normal rules for using touch spells in combat (Core Rulebook 185). So, just like casting a touch spell, a magus could use spellstrike to cast a touch spell, take a move toward an enemy, then (as a free action) make a melee attack with his weapon to deliver the spell.
On a related topic, the magus touching his held weapon doesn’t count as “touching anything or anyone” when determining if he discharges the spell. A magus could even use the spellstrike ability, miss with his melee attack to deliver the spell, be disarmed by an opponent (or drop the weapon voluntarily, for whatever reason), and still be holding the charge in his hand, just like a normal spellcaster. Furthermore, the weaponless magus could pick up a weapon (even that same weapon) with that hand without automatically discharging the spell, and then attempt to use the weapon to deliver the spell. However, if the magus touches anything other than a weapon with that hand (such as retrieving a potion), that discharges the spell as normal.
Also Chill touch is untyped damage, so unfortunately Rime spell will not work, as its not cold damage.
Basically, the spellstrike gives the magus more options when it comes to delivering touch spells; it’s not supposed to make it more difficult for the magus to use touch spells."
This errata allows both the normal rules for casting, including delivering a missed touch on a subsequent turn with a normal attack. Therefor nothing prevents a Chill touch from being deliver again with a weapon the next turn so long as you still have charges left.
However you do not gain a free touch attack each turn just when you cast. You will need to use an standard or full attack (special maneuvers like charge should be fine too).
While the most common interpretation is that you can deliver additional charges of a touch spell with Spellstrike, it's technically just that - an interpretation. Check with your DM to make sure that it would function in that manner.
As to Spell Combat and charges: Spell Combat does not grant you an extra attack. It grants you a single touch attack at the time you originally cast the spell. So from that point forward, you could not do a touch attack and attack with your weapon - at least not for free.
The way that I understanding it, at that point you would specifically use TWF to attack with your weapon and make an unarmed strike with the other hand. These attacks would not be at the Spell Combat penalties but at the heavier TWF penalties.
And spell strike allows you to substitute the free touch attack with a melee weapon attack. You can hold a charge and then spellcombat, or if you miss with the spell you can spell combat next turn which does allow you to chill touch twice in one round. It appears that is what the OP is asking.
Incorrect. You only get the free touch attack in the round when you cast the spell; if you do not use it in that round, it's gone. Having additional charges does not grant you those free touch attacks in subsequent rounds. In order to another free attack, you would have to cast Chill Touch again (which would cause the original charge to dissipate).
After that first round, if you want to deliver more than one charge in a round, you must do something that allows you to make more than one attack in a round. Spell Combat does not do that. Two-Weapon Fighting would - but it would have heavier penalties.
I think you are misunderstanding me. This is what is happening in order:
1. Cast chill touch
2. Hold the charge (either voluntarily or because you missed with your attack)
3. Spell combat - Attack with your sword discharging the held charge via spellstrike
4. Cast chilltouch via spell combat in step 4
5. Use spellstrike to make a melee attack with your sword in place of the touch attack
I think you are misunderstanding me. This is what is happening in order:
1. Cast chill touch
2. Hold the charge (either voluntarily or because you missed with your attack)
3. Spell combat - Attack with your sword discharging the held charge via spellstrike
4. Cast chilltouch via spell combat in step 4
5. Use spellstrike to make a melee attack with your sword in place of the touch attack
In that instance though, you're potentially 'wasting' charges of Chill Touch. The moment that you cast Chill Touch again in step 4, any remaining held charges you had from casting it in step 1 dissipate.
Now, if you're only a 1st-level Magus, that would be fine, because you only get one 'charge' per cast. Or if you are on your last charge, then that would work as well.
In step 4, you no longer have a charge. It got discharged in step 3. You can attack before casting your spell when you use spell combat.
In step 4, you no longer have a charge. It got discharged in step 3. You can attack before casting your spell when you use spell combat.
Chill Touch grants you 1 'charge' per caster level. So a 2nd level magus has two 'charges' of the spell, a 3rd has 3, and so on.
If you are a 1st level magus, or an X level magus that has already burned off all of the 'charges' of the spell, then what you say it true. If, however, they are an X level magus, and have more than one charge left, your process would lose those additional charges.
An undead creature you touch takes no damage of either sort, but it must make a successful Will saving throw or flee as if panicked for 1d4 rounds + 1 round per caster level.
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Hrm. I think this probably has been debated before, but the wording of Chill Touch is rather odd. To me, it appears that each charge grants a touch attack. So perhaps you could deliver successive charges without relying on TWF?
I did miss the multiple creatures touched part. Now I see heh. I'm pretty sure multiple target touch spells are discharged as long as you touch at least one target with it. I dont think unused touches carry over to later rounds. Is that correct?
I did miss the multiple creatures touched part. Now I see heh. I'm pretty sure multiple target touch spells are discharged as long as you touch at least one target with it. I dont think unused touches carry over to later rounds. Is that correct?
Not to my understanding. It would make the spell somewhat pointless for caster classes at low levels, when it would be most useful.
Common interpretation is that a touch spell with charges uses the same mechanics as missing an attack with a touch spell: Each time you hit, you deliver a single charge, and all the others are held and delivered on subsequent hits.
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I am incorrect on something I said earlier. The spells for holding a charge on touch attacks states clearly that, "You can continue to make touch attacks round after round." So each round, you could attempt a touch attack.
What is not for certain is whether those are in addition to your standard action, or if it just gives you the option to use your standard action to make an additional touch attack.
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There's a difference between a basic multi-target touch spell (like communal resist energy) and spells with specific extra charges like chill touch. Remember, in addition to chill touch's target line mentioning multiple creatures, the description also says "You can use this melee touch attack up to one time per level". That's clearly different than the touching of up to six allies as a full-round action and failing to hold any additional charges. Two different mechanics.
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Can I use Spell Combat to continue to deliver Chill Touches?
You can't just say "I use Spell Combat to deliver another charge." To use Spell Combat, you need to cast a spell. If you have TWF, you could use that to deliver multiple charges, but not Spell Combat.
Touch Spells in Combat: Many spells have a range of touch. To use these spells, you cast the spell and then touch the subject. In the same round that you cast the spell, you may also touch (or attempt to touch) as a free action.
...
Holding the Charge: If you don't discharge the spell in the round when you cast the spell, you can hold the charge[s] indefinitely. You can continue to make touch attacks round after round. If you touch anything or anyone while holding a charge, even unintentionally, the spell discharges. If you cast another spell, the touch spell dissipates.
Emphasis mine on "a" and "cast another spell." Chill Touch just lets you discharge over and over again. So if you have a multiple iterative attack (say, +6+/1), you can make a free +6, normal +6 and normal +1 attack, each discharging a Chill Touch charge.
Can I use Spell Combat to continue to deliver Chill Touches?You can't just say "I use Spell Combat to deliver another charge." To use Spell Combat, you need to cast a spell. If you have TWF, you could use that to deliver multiple charges, but not Spell Combat.
Technically, you can do it even without Two-Weapon Fighting. You're just going to take large penalties for doing so - and your unarmed strikes will provoke (as the "Holding the charge" rules state that you only count as 'armed' during the round you cast the spell).
Magic section states that you cannot hold the charge of multi target touch spells. You must touch all targets in the round that you cast it. So i guess we were both wrong. I cant copy paste it atm from my phone though :(
Magic section states that you cannot hold the charge of multi target touch spells. You must touch all targets in the round that you cast it. So i guess we were both wrong. I cant copy paste it atm from my phone though :(
That would defeat the purpose of Chill touch having multiple touches, normally you can only multi-touch willing targets. You either touch one hostile target or up to 6 willing targets, you cannot touch 6 hostile targets. Which would mean that you could only touch one enemy once with the remaining charges getting wasted at the end of you turn. Unless Chill touch works differently which is what most assume.
In most cases, if you don't discharge a touch spell on the round you cast it, you can hold the charge (postpone the discharge of the spell) indefinitely. You can make touch attacks round after round until the spell is discharged. If you cast another spell, the touch spell dissipates.
Some touch spells allow you to touch multiple targets as part of the spell. You can't hold the charge of such a spell; you must touch all targets of the spell in the same round that you finish casting the spell.
To quote the portion that Robert A. was mentioning.
I believe this is the mechanics Jiggy was rebutting in his above post.
I would argue that this essentially makes the additional charges of Chill Touch fairly useless, since it is mostly useful at lower levels when you are limited in spells, but could not take advantage of them because of the low BAB\melee capability of casters.
[edit]
There is an alternative here, and that would be that when Chill Touch says that it gives you additional melee touch attacks, it means during that turn. That, however, would make it a disturbingly powerful spell for magi.
In most cases, if you don't discharge a touch spell on the round you cast it, you can hold the charge (postpone the discharge of the spell) indefinitely. You can make touch attacks round after round until the spell is discharged. If you cast another spell, the touch spell dissipates.
Some touch spells allow you to touch multiple targets as part of the spell. You can't hold the charge of such a spell; you must touch all targets of the spell in the same round that you finish casting the spell.
To quote the portion that Robert A. was mentioning.
I believe this is the mechanics Jiggy was rebutting in his above post.
I would argue that this essentially makes the additional charges of Chill Touch fairly useless, since it is mostly useful at lower levels when you are limited in spells, but could not take advantage of them because of the low BAB\melee capability of casters.
[edit]
There is an alternative here, and that would be that when Chill Touch says that it gives you additional melee touch attacks, it means during that turn. That, however, would make it a disturbingly powerful spell for magi.
I found the section about multi touch
"TouchYou must touch a creature or object to affect it. A touch spell that deals damage can score a critical hit just as a weapon can. A touch spell threatens a critical hit on a natural roll of 20 and deals double damage on a successful critical hit. Some touch spells allow you to touch multiple targets. You can touch up to 6 willing targets as part of the casting, but all targets of the spell must be touched in the same round that you finish casting the spell. If the spell allows you to touch targets over multiple rounds, touching 6 creatures is a full-round action."
Technically the section about willing targets is during the casting of the spell. It might be legal to use a full round to touch 6 hostile targets, on a subsequent turn. Said touch turning to weapon attacks thanks to spell strike.
I think that the last sentence - "If the spell allows you to touch targets over multiple rounds, touching 6 creatures is a full-round action" - is what would apply here. Chill Touch is not technically a 'charge' spell; it is a spell that allows you to touch targets over multiple rounds.
Can I use Spell Combat to continue to deliver Chill Touches?You can't just say "I use Spell Combat to deliver another charge." To use Spell Combat, you need to cast a spell. If you have TWF, you could use that to deliver multiple charges, but not Spell Combat.
I agree that's what the rules say, but let's push the situation a little bit. Suppose the magus using spell combat casts a touch spell with a single touch charge and, due to a bad roll, misses. Now, he can't use the same general fighting style to retry the touch attack despite the situation becoming less complicated because now he no longer has to actually cast the spell that round. He has to either make a touch attack or strike with his weapon (which could still discharge the spell but requires him to hit the full AC of the target), cutting down what he can do despite removing a complication.
As I say, I agree that the text of the rules does not allow that, I'm just not sure that it would be a game breaker to allow the magus to make his touch attacks along with his other attacks at the easier spell combat penalties even if he's not actually casting a spell.
I think that the last sentence - "If the spell allows you to touch targets over multiple rounds, touching 6 creatures is a full-round action" - is what would apply here. Chill Touch is not technically a 'charge' spell; it is a spell that allows you to touch targets over multiple rounds.
Thats the strange thing about chill touch. Most spells that grant you a touch attack are personal spells, with a duration. See elemental touch. Your not targeting your self but the opponent, your not giving your self a touch attack the spell is one.
"Casting Time 1 standard action
Components V, S
EFFECT
Range touch
Targets creature or creatures touched (up to one/level)
Duration instantaneous
Saving Throw Fortitude partial or Will negates; see text; Spell Resistance yes
[This content was created for the Pathfinder rules by Paizo Publishing LLC and is part of the Pathfinder RPG product line.]
DESCRIPTION
A touch from your hand, which glows with blue energy, disrupts the life force of living creatures. Each touch channels negative energy that deals 1d6 points of damage. The touched creature also takes 1 point of Strength damage unless it makes a successful Fortitude saving throw. You can use this melee touch attack up to one time per level.
An undead creature you touch takes no damage of either sort, but it must make a successful Will saving throw or flee as if panicked for 1d4 rounds + 1 round per caster level."
Can I use Spell Combat to continue to deliver Chill Touches?You can't just say "I use Spell Combat to deliver another charge." To use Spell Combat, you need to cast a spell. If you have TWF, you could use that to deliver multiple charges, but not Spell Combat.
I agree that's what the rules say, but let's push the situation a little bit. Suppose the magus using spell combat casts a touch spell with a single touch charge and, due to a bad roll, misses. Now, he can't use the same general fighting style to retry the touch attack despite the situation becoming less complicated because now he no longer has to actually cast the spell that round. He has to either make a touch attack or strike with his weapon (which could still discharge the spell but requires him to hit the full AC of the target), cutting down what he can do despite removing a complication.
As I say, I agree that the text of the rules does not allow that, I'm just not sure that it would be a game breaker to allow the magus to make his touch attacks along with his other attacks at the easier spell combat penalties even if he's not actually casting a spell.
Normally it is allowed to make a touch as part of an attack, but only with unarmed stike. There is nothing preventing one holding a charge to initiate a full attack with the first one connecting delivering the spell. Magus thanks to spell strike can use a weapon, so delivering a spell as part of a full attack is ok. In fact with spell combat i recommend that you cast the spell first, that way even if your free attack misses, you might be able to deliver you spell with one of your normal attacks.
Technically, you can do it even without Two-Weapon Fighting. You're just going to take large penalties for doing so - and your unarmed strikes will provoke (as the "Holding the charge" rules state that you only count as 'armed' during the round you cast the spell).
It does not say that. It says that the caster holding the charge may elect to make a normal, unarmed attack (or with a natural weapon) and do that damage as well but the attack will count as unarmed or armed as normal for the attack type. Touch attacks backed by held charges are not considered armed for the first round only.
It does not say that. It says that the caster holding the charge may elect to make a normal, unarmed attack (or with a natural weapon) and do that damage as well but the attack will count as unarmed or armed as normal for the attack type. Touch attacks backed by held charges are not considered armed for the first round only.
Technically, you can do it even without Two-Weapon Fighting. You're just going to take large penalties for doing so - and your unarmed strikes will provoke (as the "Holding the charge" rules state that you only count as 'armed' during the round you cast the spell).
Thank you for the correction. I think I wrote that before I re-read and noticed that holding a charge allows you to make the touch attack round after round until you deliver the spell, and so assumed the only way you would be delivering multiple charges would be via unarmed strike.
Let's forget about holding the charge for a second. You cannot hold the charge with Chill Touch. In this case, chill touch allows you to touch one creature per level as part of the casting. So the question now is:
Can a magus use spellstrike to deliver Chill Touch to multiple creatures with a melee weapon attack in place of each touch attack?
At 2nd level, whenever a magus casts a spell with a range of “touch” from the magus spell list, he can deliver the spell through any weapon he is wielding as part of a melee attack. Instead of the free melee touch attack normally allowed to deliver the spell, a magus can make one free melee attack with his weapon (at his highest base attack bonus) as part of casting this spell.
This is where it gets weird. A case could be made for either side. On one hand, spellstrike says a magus can make one free melee attack with his weapon as part of casting the spell, and some people will interpret it that way. On the other hand, you could say that since it says "he can deliver the spell through any weapon he is wielding as part of a melee attack" you could make multiple attacks. I could see it going either way. Perhaps we should make a FAQ request for it?
Let's forget about holding the charge for a second. You cannot hold the charge with Chill Touch. In this case, chill touch allows you to touch one creature per level as part of the casting. So the question now is:
Can a magus use spellstrike to deliver Chill Touch to multiple creatures with a melee weapon attack in place of each touch attack?
This is where it gets weird. A case could be made for either side. On one hand, spellstrike says a magus can make one free melee attack with his weapon as part of casting the spell, and some people will interpret it that way. On the other hand, you could say that since it says "he can deliver the spell through any weapon he is wielding as part of a melee attack" you could make multiple attacks. I could see it going either way. Perhaps we should make a FAQ request for it?
At 2nd level, whenever a magus casts a spell with a range of “touch” from the magus spell list, he can deliver the spell through any weapon he is wielding as part of a melee attack. Instead of the free melee touch attack normally allowed to deliver the spell, a magus can make one free melee attack with his weapon (at his highest base attack bonus) as part of casting this spell.
I went over this above, spell strike as already been errata/faq Spell strike can be used just as with normal casting, just with a weapon. Since its legal to deliver a charge with an unarmed attack, even after casting, It should too be legal for Magus with a weapon to do the same. You don't need the free attack granted by a touch spell to deliver a spell strike.
The FAQ makes it apparent then, that you can deliver all of those touches with your weapon. This makes Chill Touch a very good spell at lower levels(not so much at level 1). If you have 3 goblins next to you, cast Chill Touch, and you get an attack on every one of them at your highest BAB. Magi have some pretty awesome tricks.
Wow, confusion here.
Let's forget about holding the charge for a second. You cannot hold the charge with Chill Touch. In this case, chill touch allows you to touch one creature per level as part of the casting.
You very much *can* hold the charge with chill touch. It's a somewhat unique spell, and a rather old one, with carryover language from previous editions that didn't have as clear hold the charge language.
Cast chill touch: get a free attack for casting it.
Any other round: use any number of iterative attacks that you have (or two-weapon fighting attacks) to deal more touches.
Magus casts chill touch: gets a free attack for casting it, can use his weapon.
Any other round: use any iterative attacks he has to deliver additional chill touches, can use his weapon.
Cannot use spell combat in subsequent rounds without dismissing the chill touch.
Magus casts chill touch as part of spell combat: gets a free attack for casting it, can use his weapon, and can deliver additional chill touch hits with his iterative attacks.
Any other round: if he still has charges, can use any iterative attacks he has to deliver additional chill touches, can use his weapon.
The FAQ makes it apparent then, that you can deliver all of those touches with your weapon. This makes Chill Touch a very good spell at lower levels(not so much at level 1). If you have 3 goblins next to you, cast Chill Touch, and you get an attack on every one of them at your highest BAB. Magi have some pretty awesome tricks.
You absolutely cannot do this.
Chill touch does *not* grant you 1 free touch/level to deliver chill touches. That's just silly. You get one free one when you cast the spell, the rest in subsequent rounds (except for a Magus, who can deliver more with attacks in spell combat if casting the spell first).Read Jiggy's posts - he's got it down.
Yeah dont forget multiple touches per casting is only when touching willing targets. And there are not many who will let you lay on them with chill touch. But yeah it is very nice. I have an arcane trickster that i am currently running with. I really enjoy playing him, but he has 2 real big weaknesses. 1. his bab is terrible really hurting his to hit rate. 2. he has less spells for a wizard of his level, and many slots are dedicated to non-combat spells and buffs. With chill touch i get a spell that allows me to deliver multiple sneak attacks as a touch attack when i get low on my attack spells, with out having to resort to a weapon that i would have trouble hitting with.
Some touch spells allow you to touch multiple targets as part of the spell. You can’t hold the charge of such a spell; you must touch all targets of the spell in the same round that you finish casting the spell.
You cannot hold the charge of a chill touch spell.
You can use this melee touch attack up to one time per level.
Specific trumps general. Chill touch specifically says you can make one touch attack per level. This overrides the rule that you can only touch 6 *willing* targets. And if you still say that you can hold the charge, you can indeed do as I described as you can touch 6 creatures as a full round action.
Some touch spells allow you to touch multiple targets as part of the spell. You can’t hold the charge of such a spell; you must touch all targets of the spell in the same round that you finish casting the spell.
You cannot hold the charge of a chill touch spell.
Specific trumps general. Chill touch specifically says you can make one touch attack per level. This overrides the rule that you can only touch 6 *willing* targets. And if you still say that you can hold the charge, you can indeed do as I described as you can touch 6 creatures as a full round action.
You can use this melee touch attack up to one time per level.
But it doesn't specifically say it trump the rule that you can only touch mutiple willing targets. The rule about not saving a multiple touch charge is specifically referring to touching multiple creatures at the casting. Chill touch only allows you to touch one creature at the casting, giving you additional touches to use at some undefined point of time.
Interesting thought though, nothing prevents you from touching a creature multiple times. So if we went with your interpretation a level 20 caster with chill touch could land 20 touches in the first casting of the spell, if all hit the foe would be looking at 20d6 damage and would have to make 20 fortitude saves potentially losing 20 points of strength.
Each of those attacks would allow a sneak attack/spell strike and if you opponent goes down take a move action so you can deliver the rest to the next opponent. If this sounds like the appropriate power of a level 1 spell, then i suppose you might be right. If not then you might be inclined to believe that my interpretation is more reasonable
The target line of the spell says one creature or one creature/level. If you can hold the charge of a spell that specifies targets touched, then what's stopping you from holding charges of dimension door or teleport?
Nothing suggests you can touch the same creature twice. It says one creature per level.
Compare touching multiple targets to other things you can do at that level. It is not to farfetched when you think about it. At level 3, attacking 3 targets as opposed to using burning hands on them makes sense balancewise. The rules appear to support it as well.
Chill Touch hardly breaks damage caps if you interpret it the way I have. You hit a bunch of creatures for 1d6 damage each, chill touch doesn't do 1d6/level to each creature. AoEs do the same thing but don't require attack rolls. I am trying to interpret the rules as written. The spells you quoted are all very similar to chill touch and appear to work the same way.
Chill Touch (and the other spells you linked) specify the target as creature/level touched. Chill touch and Frostbite have a duration of instantaneous. Calcific Touch however, lists a duration of 1 round/level. If it is indeed intended that Chill Touch and Frostbite be usable in the same manner, then why is their duration instantaneous? It would seem that they would give the spell a duration and possibly make the target you, stating that it gives you the ability to make touch attack attacks x times. Look at Elemental Touch. It has a target of you with a range of personal. It works in the way that you say chill touch works. Why would they write this spell in a different format if they both work the same way? My observation is that they don't. It is this line in the magic section that is making me raise an eyebrow on this whole Chill Touch thing:
Some touch spells allow you to touch multiple targets as part of the spell. You can't hold the charge of such a spell; you must touch all targets of the spell in the same round that you finish casting the spell.
Since it allows you to touch multiple targets, I believe it falls into the category of spells that you cannot hold the charge for. Calcific Touch appears to be using the "specific trumps general" rule, by stating that you can make one attack per round and also having a duration listed(not holding a charge if a duration is ticking). Frostbite is a level 1 spell with a duration of instantaneous. Are you really saying that I can cast Frostbite and have an unlimited duration spell that makes all my attacks do more damage(until I hit the creature/level limit)?
There are spells that are instantaneous that target one creature(such as shocking grasp). I am not referring to those.Even if everything I have listed above is wrong, and you can indeed hold the charge of a chill touch spell, you can touch 6 targets per round as a full round action. This means you could cast the spell, hold the charge, then deliver 6 melee weapon attacks as a full round action with spell strike. It works almost the same either way, just one method requires you to wait until the next round to do it.
The target line of the spell says one creature or one creature/level. If you can hold the charge of a spell that specifies targets touched, then what's stopping you from holding charges of dimension door or teleport?
Nothing suggests you can touch the same creature twice. It says one creature per level.
Compare touching multiple targets to other things you can do at that level. It is not to farfetched when you think about it. At level 3, attacking 3 targets as opposed to using burning hands on them makes sense balancewise. The rules appear to support it as well.
You are making alot of irrelevant points, making your arguement more complicated than it ever should be. If you want yes you can hold a charge of dimension door and teleport, but that has nothing to do with chill touch.
You are making arbitrary leaps in you interpretations of the rules. Why would the spell need to spell out that you can touch a creature multiple times, but feel that subverting the normal multi-touch rules need no mention. I'm using the simplest interpretation, yet you cling to your needlessly complicated one while dismissing mine out of hand.
