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LOL
well, my GM REALLY didn't like the archer-fighter i made, after my character died.
more of it - he decided to ban some of the archery feats (like mastery and clustered shots) cause he claim there's no equal in any other style when it comes to damage.so... not wanting to piss him too much, i get to make a deep retrain (ability and feat) for my level 7 fighter, this time a bit more balanced.
i was thinking on either a 2 hander + Maneuvers OR a 2 weapon thrower (with back up of a greatsword)
fighter level 7 got 9 feats.option A : 1 big weapon:
basic build takes 5 feats. (power att, furious focus, combat expertise, weapon focus, weapon spec)
so, that allow either trip master (imp trip, greater trip, felling smash) + 1 other feat (imp dirty fighter OR enforcer)
or dirty fighting master (imp dirty fighting, greater, quick) 1 other feat (enforcer OR imp trip).
Any other / better focus / maneuver to take? (grapple ? ) trip seem ubber but SO fast creatures get flying and big….Option B: 2 weapon :
Fight with kukri and scimitar, no Maneuvers, take all the 2 weapon feats +quick draw + deadly aim for some throw thing.Thoughts?
Thoughts?
Your GM has issues. :p
What ever will he do when an arcane caster hits upper levels, if he can't handle a decent fighter archer?
It is perfectly valid for a GM to ban some things he doesn't like, fighter's issue is not dealing damage and it is not what makes arcane casters an issue at higher levels, completely different problems. Not everything paizo publishes is well balanced, and if some feats or spells deliver a bit too much than the GM should feel free to veto them within reason.
For throwing there is a blinkback belt that helps making it viable for a measly 2,500 gold, sicmitar and kukri and throwing might mess up your feats weapon focus, specialization and the like. TWF, ITWF, rapid shot, point blank shot all help.
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well, knowing him ? focus on the caster after round 1 ... LOL
well, the thing that bother him i presume, is that an archer is >>>> the ranger when it comes to damage, especially when we move alot, and i use full attack alot...so - to keep the harmony - i'll balance abit...
which build to grab? take many manuvers as improve? or focus to be great at one ? (and which 1). power attack shall always be the "fall back plan".
I dunno. I have always considered the 2-h fighter to be one of the most powerful fighters. I think your GM is gonna have to learn to cope.
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It is perfectly valid for a GM to ban some things he doesn't like, fighter's issue is not dealing damage and it is not what makes arcane casters an issue at higher levels, completely different problems. Not everything paizo publishes is well balanced, and if some feats or spells deliver a bit too much than the GM should feel free to veto them within reason.
For throwing there is a blinkback belt that helps making it viable for a measly 2,500 gold, sicmitar and kukri and throwing might mess up your feats weapon focus, specialization and the like. TWF, ITWF, rapid shot, point blank shot all help.
Ummm...sure...but that's hardly OP.
I don't recall anyone saying it was a matter of sheer damage, at any rate.
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I dunno. I have always considered the 2-h fighter to be one of the most powerful fighters. I think your GM is gonna have to learn to cope.well, knowing him ? focus on the caster after round 1 ... LOL
well, the thing that bother him i presume, is that an archer is >>>> the ranger when it comes to damage, especially when we move alot, and i use full attack alot...so - to keep the harmony - i'll balance abit...
which build to grab? take many manuvers as improve? or focus to be great at one ? (and which 1). power attack shall always be the "fall back plan".
ARCHERY DO alot MORE DAMAGE with no magical aiding (like speed etc)
You think so? Show me the build. I've seen some effective archers, but I haven't seen them outdamage a well-built greatsword fighter.
It should prove interesting, if that's true.
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abilitys:
str 14 dex 18 con 14 int 14 wis 10 cha 8 (20 point buyout)
level 7
feats:
1-weapon focus + precise shot+ point blank shot
2-rapid shot
3-deadly aim
4-wp sp
5-point blank master
6-many shot
7-clustered shotto hit: 7 (BAB)+4(dex)+1(wp training)+1(magic)+1 (focus)+1(point blank)-2(aim)-2(rapid) = +11(*2) & +11 & +6
damage per hit: 1d8+ 2 (str)+1(magic)+1(train)+1(point blank)+2 (sp)+4 (aim)
all and all: 1d8+11 (average = 15.5)
3 attacks at full +11 shall do 46.5 damage
if the exra attack also hits, we are talking 62 damage.a 2 handed fighter will be doing:
2d6 (base) + 6 (STR) + 6 (power) + 2 (sp) + 1 (train) + 1(train):
=23 for the first attack, 46 if both hit.
archer can attack ALWAYS full attack, unlike the fighter that need to move alot...so ...
what to take? (he insists i change... )
Ah, I see...you've spent every single feat on doing it, and have a poorer chance to hit by a shot, never count a critical...you've missed a lot of what the greatsword fighter can do.
Ok.
What's the magic there?
I would say get your Gm some Preparation H for his obvious butt hurt and get the hell over it. Your build is fine and you are not cheese-dicking any of the rules, at least as far as I can see.
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Why are you unable to gain access to special materials? Is your GM aware that the CR system includes the assumption that access to special materials is there?
If you're in a world where silver doesn't exist, any enemy with DR/silver just got upgraded to DR/+3 weapon, which is probably worth a CR bump.
In any case, make a paladin archer. There is no need for Clustered Shots because your Smite Evil negates all DR. A little less damage on average than a fighter, but far more stable and far higher burst damage.
Archers on average do the most damage. They almost always get full attacks.
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I would just ask for a list of banned material.
Tell him you cannot reliably build any PC without knowing what is, and is not available.
Also, ask his qualifications for something to be banned.
If he continues to randomly ban things, and without giving logical reasons, then you may come to a crossroads.
At that point, you should simply ask him to build a PC for you.
It would seem that is what he wants.
Archers on average do the most damage. They almost always get full attacks....and then someone gets up in their face. :p
That is not a problem. There are feats that allow them to full attack and not provoke.
However its better if they don't let it happen. By the time they give someone 2 full rounds of arrows that creature is probably dead, and that is why I have never taken the feat I was referring to.
On top of that they are still D10 classes, and can use swords. Getting in their face is not going to save you unless you get to them before being filled with arrows.
Just to be clear this is a PC archer vs some random NPC.
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Archers on average do the most damage. They almost always get full attacks....and then someone gets up in their face. :pThat is not a problem. There are feats that allow them to full attack and not provoke.
However its better if they don't let it happen. By the time they give someone 2 full rounds of arrows that creature is probably dead, and that is why I have never taken the feat I was referring to.
On top of that they are still D10 classes, and can use swords. Getting in their face is not going to save you unless you get to them before being filled with arrows.
Just to be clear this is a PC archer vs some random NPC.
I'm talking in a game, not some theorycrafted set of circumstances...you know, open the door, and two trolls try and eat your face, sometimes...while other times, the archer can play up his abilities perfectly. Archers don't get that luxury of perfect situations all that often...and a greatswordsman almost always has a backup for ranged. Often, a bow.
Do you get level 7 wealth, or is that nerfed, too?
If it's not, build a 2H fighter that does even more damage. If it is, make a spellcaster and show him what real power looks like.
Your DM is a control freak, and sounds like he uses the game for his own power fantasy fulfillment. I'd just leave as your posts have already set off numerous red flags about him, but if you need time to find another group, some passive aggressiveness is always fun to pass the time.
People are a bit quick to pass judgement and that all based on a post that begins with 'LOL'. The GM might have said he only allowed the CRB but can discuss anything from other sources, that is a perfectly acceptable way to play the game.
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People are a bit quick to pass judgement and that all based on a post that begins with 'LOL'. The GM might have said he only allowed the CRB but can discuss anything from other sources, that is a perfectly acceptable way to play the game.
Absolutely. LOL. :p
More seriously, that's really my point...it's going to be borderline impossible to know what's going to be banned, without a list...so I would sit down and talk to the DM about his expectations before attempting any build.
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Sorry Eldon, but quite a few previous threads have shown that archery does more DPR than melee. They get similar to hit numbers, only do slightly less damage, and get 2-3 more attacks in a full attack.
Oh, and there is a feat that does for melee what Clustered Shots does for archery.
Lovely.
See if that reproduces in an AP.
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I have I built a level 1 fighter archer in a tier 4-5 game and did the most damage on my team. Everyone else was level 3-4.
I can see it happening.
OTOH, I've seen too many trolls pop up out of nowhere and commence to making a light snack of anybody who couldn't fight back significantly.
As always, YMMV.
I've played in entire campaigns where I never saw an encounter that couldn't get to the party in 2 rounds. In those cases, archers blow chunks.
rapid shot is worthless for throwing no ? dont you use twf ?
No, thrown weapons are considered ranged. So, yes, you can use Rapid Shot with a thrown weapon (provided you have more than one of the weapon at hand).
Check out page 182 of the Core RB for definition of ranged attacks and page 140 for definition of ranged weapons.
Sorry Eldon, but quite a few previous threads have shown that archery does more DPR than melee. They get similar to hit numbers, only do slightly less damage, and get 2-3 more attacks in a full attack.
Oh, and there is a feat that does for melee what Clustered Shots does for archery.
Lovely.
See if that reproduces in an AP.
It worked perfectly well for me in Council and I was using a freaking crossbow.
Sorry Eldon, but quite a few previous threads have shown that archery does more DPR than melee. They get similar to hit numbers, only do slightly less damage, and get 2-3 more attacks in a full attack.
Oh, and there is a feat that does for melee what Clustered Shots does for archery.
Lovely.
See if that reproduces in an AP.
Archery does more damage on average in an AP. Paladin would get 1 full round attack a combat, if he was lucky. Player rerolled an archer and his damage per combat trippled. Archer does so much damage we don't even miss the party tank (paladin) that he used to play, the monk can soak a couple rounds of attacks while the ranger kills everything in sight.
Playing shattered star if you are curious (large dungeons built to Thasalon scale). Its even more so in Kingmaker with a decent number of open area encounters.