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The goblins have committed no evil act yet, so they're neutral. As they grow up their actions will determine their alignment. For most goblins that's a tendency towards NE, but living in a different culture? Who knows.
What I don't get is the PC trying to claim that this is a neutral act? A neutral character would most likely not give a care either way. If a character is religiously neutral, then they might be trying to insure the babes stay alive to maintain balance: "we killed X number of creatures before finding the babes, now we must insure that X number of creatures live."
I can't really figure out any way that a neutral character would want to actively kill babies of any stripe.
They're delicious broiled in butter?
Yeah, that is kinda evil, huh?
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Don't any of you find it odd that the OPs first and only post here concern killing goblin babies and paladins? I mean, this is the classic meaningless debate that has gone on since the first D&D message board, and before that at 3 am in the morning.
Come on, he can't be for real, he's having us on.
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So i would like your guys help on how would be a good way for me to kill the goblin babys without my gm saying im evil now and without having to fight the paliden one on one.
Killing the goblin children is an evil act.
Would you kill them if they were human babies?
Aberration =/= Humanoid
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So we are playing Rise of the RuneLords, we just started chapter 2. At the end of chapter one there was a few cages of goblin babys. I wanted to kill them all because well there goblins, im a neutral summoner. Our partys paladin on the other hand wanted to take them with us back to sandpoint, i didnt stop him just cuz well im not evil and he's a big help. Now that we are back in town he took them to the church and talked to them and now hes paying for a orphanage to get build mainly so the goblins can be raised. I have been constantly trying to kill the babys now that we are back in town, trying to reason with the priests, summoning goblin dogs to make it look like goblins, just sneaking in to kill them(my sneak sucks), ransoms, reasoning with the townsfolk. the last one it went both ways some people saw my reasoning and some saw the palidens reasons. Me their evil their gonna grow up and kill peoples dogs and horsed and townsfolk, the pali says if we raise them they will adopt the townsfolks lifestyle and be peacefull. So i would like your guys help on how would be a good way for me to kill the goblin babys without my gm saying im evil now and without having to fight the paliden one on one.
Why are you creating a PVP situation.
Let the Paladin have his Goblin babies. It isn't actually the real world, and unless your character has a specific hatred of goblins, why are you messing with another players Role Play?
Why are you creating a PVP situation.
Let the Paladin have his Goblin babies. It isn't actually the real world, and unless your character has a specific hatred of goblins, why are you messing with another players Role Play?
I agree with this.
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I agree with this, which is surprising considering who I'm quoting.Why are you creating a PVP situation.
Let the Paladin have his Goblin babies. It isn't actually the real world, and unless your character has a specific hatred of goblins, why are you messing with another players Role Play?
Go over to the new GM asking advice thread. Your head will explode.
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Would you kill them if they were human babies?Do I have access to fava beans? A nice Chianti?
No, but I do have a Book of Marvelous Recipes.
What you're suggesting about "leave genocide to the bad guys" essentially unravels the entire game, and makes you question just about every combat encounter you ever have. If they're all redeemable, then why are we using lethal means of attack?"The only valid attack vs goblins is sleep, because anything else is cutting their potential for good short"
I know i'm putting words into your mouth, but following your logic, it's like saying that they should all be captured, roped up, and forced to learn about good stuff to see if it takes root, if not... kill them or let them go somewhere.
Well, that's kind of how the real world works.
Police use deadly force sometimes because it's the only way to do what needs to be done. But there are generally guidelines that discourage its use if there are alternatives.
Soldiers are even better examples -- while it's perfectly legitimate to use deadly force against an enemy soldier, you can and will be shot yourself for killing one who has surrendered (or who is attempting to surrender).
That's the difference between "combat" and "premeditated murder."
Aberration =/= HumanoidSo, killing sentient, intelligent adolescent creatures is fine because they don't conform to your idea of what "humanity" is? Gee, that reminds me of some European political movement from the previous century...
Hyperbole aside, you should go and check the Pathfinder definitions of Aberrations and Humanoids, as well as the whole section on the alignment system. I will accept adolescent Aboleth slaughter due to their racial memory thing. They will ALL grow up to try and subjugate others, because they are like that TO THE VERY GENES. Humanoids have a choice. Outsiders with ties to alignment do not. Aberrations usually do not have this choice either, judging from how they are portrayed. Mind Flayers back in D&D were PHYSICALLY AND MENTALLY INCAPABLE of experiencing anything but negative emotions.
Actually, that's a whole new point for the mercy killing of Mind Flayers. Rather interesting... *Walks off to ponder this*
Who threw potato salad at CCNY lecturers on Dadaism and subsequently presented themselves on the granite steps of the madhouse with shaven heads and harlequin speech of suicide, demanding instantaneous lobotomy...I mean,
Ma-ma!
Ma-ma?
Gorbacz did, but he used a stealth bomber.
I prefer Dadaists.
Ma-ma!!
Plotting their murder like this is definitely evil, but a single evil act won't necessarily make your character irredeemably evil. The argument of "they're monsters, and they'll grow up to be a huge problem if we don't do something about them now" doesn't sound too unreasonable for a neutral character in a faux-medieval setting (though he's definitely a serious bigot).
The bigger issue is: does your character feel strongly enough about this to destroy the party? Not to mention that destroying the paladin's interesting roleplay side-story may upset the player (as opposed to the PC), which is definitely not good.
I'd let them live, but play this up as a point of disagreement between you and the paladin. Bring it up every now and then. You could have roleplay gold here.
Babies.
He's.
It's.
Just for starters.
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Just so that everybody knows...it appears that the OP has slid away into the woodwork. I've been basically laughing at the whole thing for 30+ posts now...I don't think he was here to get the feedback he did...unless he was here to laugh. You guys are just putting on a stage show at this point, unless it's really important to you...
Meh...if this argument is what makes you warm and fuzzy, enjoy...
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An aberration has a bizarre anatomy, strange abilities, an alien mindset, or any combination of the three.
Nothing implies that they are "always Evil". Guardian Nagas and Flumphs dropped by to say "hi".
Icyshadow's point was not that all Aberrations are always evil, but that it is possible for certain abberrations to be always evil (due to a specific alien mindset that is evil in nature), whereas humanoids never have alignment hard-coded into them.
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On the one hand, baby goblins are disgusting creatures.
On the other hand, maybe they'll eat the paladin.
I don't know. Is the paladin a gnome?
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I agree with Ciretose. The curiously absent OP is determined to start a PvP situation without working with the paladin's player on any of it. He is being deliberately disruptive, to the point of talking to the GM behind the other player's back and asking people on a forum for help in murdering a number of babies--even after the GM initially made it clear that killing the babies was an evil act in his setting.
If the OP isn't a troll, he's a jackass.
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I agree with Ciretose. The curiously absent OP is determined to start a PvP situation without working with the paladin's player on any of it. He is being deliberately disruptive, to the point of talking to the GM behind the other player's back and asking people on a forum for help in murdering a number of babies--even after the GM initially made it clear that killing the babies was an evil act in his setting.
If the OP isn't a troll, he's a jackass.
I also agree with ciretose. : /
If it was a young demon, or a wyrmling chromatic dragon, you would obviously kill it, for such creatures are irredeemable in a standard setting, and are born evil. Unless you're playing in a subjective, wishy-washy morality world like Ebberon. But I digress.
On the flip side, a goblin growing up in a human community has the same chance to be evil as a human growing up in a human community, particularly if said goblin is being raised by kind and loving people who aren't racist toward the poor creature. So by your logic (kill the goblin babies because they could be evil), you would have to kill all the human babies as well. Which is undeniably evil.
Plus, you mentioned that the Paladin in your party was helpful. If you kill those babies, he will cease to be helpful toward you. In the interest of selfishness (a defining feature of neutrality), it would be stupid to tick him off. So for your sake, and for the babies, the right thing to do is to leave them alone. It's not like you have to take care of them anyway.
And yes, I know the OP has vanished, but on the off chance that he reads this thread again, I figured I'd toss in my 2 cents. Plus alignment debates are always fun, particularly when its about the most stereotypical situation in roleplaying games.
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I suddenly have this overpowering urge to build a gnome pally. :p
You'll want to optimize. The ideal array for a 15-point buy gnome paladin is:
STR: 7 (5 after racial mod)
DEX: 8
CON: 7 (9 after racial mod)
INT: 18
WIS: 16
CHA: 8 (10 after racial mod)
Put your favored class bonus into a skill, and be sure to take lots and lots of Professions, because you want to be able to do anything. Your feat should be Skill Focus in one of the professions, so you're really good at it.
Now you're ready to go into the first-level dungeon to fight kobolds with your mighty, uncovered gnome paladin fists.