Sorcerer seeking to bring the Dragons back! Build help?

[DarthPinkHippo]

I'm going to be playing a dragon-blooded sorcerer in an upcoming Pathfinder game with a home-brewed setting. As part of the setting lore, dragons and humans once lived in perfect harmony. The humans screwed that up so the dragons up and left, and now there are no dragons on the continent upon which the game is starting. Dragons are now considered a myth and a children's tale.

My character grew up in a rich home in a lawful good, paladin-loving country. He had a nurse who told him stories of the dragons, which fascinated him. After his dragon powers started manifesting he was convinced dragons once walked the earth; he became angry that nobody would believe him and left home. He is bound and determined to find a way to bring ALL the dragons back to his home continent.

I need to decide whether I want to play a straight sorcerer, or go dragon disciple. I have never played either (never even played a wizard), and if I went dragon disciple I have no idea what I would want from it. We are in a four person party with a druid who plans on staying in the back casting spells while he sends his lion into melee, a dervish dancer bard, a fourth person who is currently up in the air, and myself. We are starting at level two, and are restricted to just the CRB (if I go DD then I can start taking Bestiary feats once I start taking DD levels) and the racial favored class bonuses, as this is the GM's first ever time GMing.

My stat array is as follows:
16 STR, 14 DEX, 16 CON, 16 INT, 13 WIS, 17 CHA
The GM is planning on being tough and had us use a very favorable rolling method. I have not yet used my racial bonus, as I do not have a race picked yet, though I am leaning human for the extra feat.

If I go DD I will be taking a level in fighter as one of my first two levels. I have also been given 1,500gp to buy anything in the CRB. GM has stated he will not require tracking rations.

Any and all help will be appreciated!

[DarthPinkHippo]

Bump

[Psion-Psycho]

O man this reminds me of a game i was in back in 3.5. To bad u cant use 3.5 feats because there is like 11 Draconic Heritage feats out there that would be perfect for u. O well id just go straight Sorcerer if i were u. Cast from the back for now until u get Dragon Form 1-3 and the Extend spell Metamagic feat.

Peace and have fun.

[LazarX]

Do you want to emphasize melee or casting? That should determine your choice.

Even if you go dragon disciple, I'd still pretty much keep it a Sorcerer/DD build.

Don't be surprised though if someone suggests Paladin for it's mechanical advantage, but I really don't think that it fits your character flavor though. At the very least it dilutes your drive, as Paladins have to put other things at a much higher priority than your stated agenda.

[soupturtle]

I'd recommend you to read Oterisk's guide to the dragon disciple. That'll give you a decent idea of what you can do with a DD, to help you make your mind up.

I'd personally take a level of ranger instead of fighter, by the way. In exchange for one bonus feat, you get +2 to reflex (your weakest save as a DD), a better class skill list (including perception), a few extra skillpoints, +2 to attack and damage against all enemies of one type (or one enemy of choice per day with the guide archetype) and the ability to use wands of ranger spells, such as CLW (or the ability to disable magical traps with the trapper archetype). If that isn't worth a feat I don't know what is.

[DarthPinkHippo]

The ranger sounds really intriguing... I'm all for that. Extra perception and CLW being on the spell list is super handy.

I know the advantages of playing a paladin, but it really doesn't fit this character at all. I want to bring dragons back, not slay them.

Also, my highest level PC ever was a level 6 Ranger/Cleric. I really don't know what I'd be missing by not having full casting.

[Sah]

Personally the flavor begs you to go Dragon Disciple in my opinion, but mechanically speaking people are right in that you should decide if you want melee or spells to be your focus.

[DarthPinkHippo]

Then I'll go with melee. Spells can take a backseat. So now that I've decided to go that route... Help with feats and items?

[Byrdology]

I think that your back-ground and homeland begs you to be a paladin of bahamut 4 (oath of vengeance/ sorc1

[DarthPinkHippo]

I wish that was viable. Apparently there is no dragon god accessible though :/

[proftobe]

1 put 18 in str
1 ranger improved in
2 ranger (natural weapon style) aspect of the beast
3 master of many style hungry ghost monk (bonus feat) dragon style level feat weapon focus claw
4 master of many styles etc etc bonus feat dragon ferocity
5 sor level feat feral combat training
6 DD
7 DD arcane armor training if you want to wear armor or elemental fist for flavor
8 DD
9 DD Dragon's roar
pick up amulet of mighty fists as quick as you can. For a more strictly martial flavor replace monk levels with barbarian or 1 level of alchemist and 1 level of barbarian combine with eldritch heritage and watch that str score hit the around 40 before you shift into form of dragon to push it even higher.

[Byrdology]

DarthPinkHippo wrote:

I wish that was viable. Apparently there is no dragon god accessible though :/

You can't be dedicated to an ideal like a cleric can?

[DarthPinkHippo]

Byrdology wrote:

DarthPinkHippo wrote:

I wish that was viable. Apparently there is no dragon god accessible though :/

You can't be dedicated to an ideal like a cleric can?

I guess I could be, it just seemed like a very specific thing. Plus my character doesn't strike me as vengeful. Seriously, he's almost Elan-like in his optimism.

[DarthPinkHippo]

proftobe wrote:

1 put 18 in str

1 ranger improved in
2 ranger (natural weapon style) aspect of the beast
3 master of many style hungry ghost monk (bonus feat) dragon style level feat weapon focus claw
4 master of many styles etc etc bonus feat dragon ferocity
5 sor level feat feral combat training
6 DD
7 DD arcane armor training if you want to wear armor or elemental fist for flavor
8 DD
9 DD Dragon's roar
pick up amulet of mighty fists as quick as you can. For a more strictly martial flavor replace monk levels with barbarian or 1 level of alchemist and 1 level of barbarian combine with eldritch heritage and watch that str score hit the around 40 before you shift into form of dragon to push it even higher.

I'm limited to core, sorry! Thanks though!

[soupturtle]

I think there's one more important choice you need to make: fighting style. Will you go armed, and use your claws (and later bite) as backup, or do you want to rip things apart with natural weapons all day long?

If you're limited to core only, a weapon is probably easier, as all the good options to get permanent claws are non-core. But if you're really set on natural weapons, you can try to get the most out of the alter self spell, in which case you probably want 1 level of martial and 4 of sorcerer as your lead in, so you can get it at level 5.

If you're going for a weapon, I'd go for either 1 level martial / 4 sorcerer or 3 martial / 2 sorcerer, just because even sorcerer levels give both BAB and caster level, so there's no real reason to take an odd number of sorcerer levels. As for feats, power attack is obvious. If you go for a reach weapon (using your claws up close) combat reflexes is good. Arcane armor training is a good feat in the mid levels, although at high levels it will interfere with quickened spells (but if you're focusing on melee, you're unlikely to cast very many quickened spells unless your campaign goes to really high levels). Arcane strike becomes a very worthwhile feat once your caster level reaches 5.

Also, if there's one non-core thing you really, really want as a dragon disciple, it's the magical knack trait. It's in the advanced players guide (so about as close to core as you can get), so if you think you have a chance of convincing your GM to let you have one non-core thing, make it that trait. (and if you don't get traits: it's probably still worth it as a feat).

[DarthPinkHippo]

I'm going to go armed with glaive, natural weapons as backup. Magical Knack will have to be a feat, probably what I take at 5th.

[Ughbash]

IF your GM will let you take feats from 3.5 ask about the Regional Feat Militia. This is page 36 of the Forgotten Realms Campaign setting. It gives you proficency with ALL martial weapons.

Then you can take Sorceror 6/Eldritch Knight 10/Dragin Disciple 4. You will end at 20 with a bab of 16 (4 attacks a round) and 9th level spells.

Failing that it depends if you want to be more of a caster or more of a Fighter.

If yo want to focus on Caster go either Sorceror 20 or Sorceror 12/Dragon Disciple 8. Going to DD 10 will cost you 9th level spells.

If you want to be more of a fighter I would say Paladin 2/sorceror 4/Dargon disciple 4/eldritch knight 10. A slightly differnt variant of that would be Paladin 2/Sorceror 4/Dragon Disciple 8/Eldritch knight 6.

[SpoCk0nd0pe]

Ughbash wrote:

If you want to be more of a fighter I would say Paladin 2/sorceror 4/Dargon disciple 4/eldritch knight 10. A slightly differnt variant of that would be Paladin 2/Sorceror 4/Dragon Disciple 8/Eldritch knight 6.

If spells can take a backseat I think those are strong options. I personally favor the RDD 8 variant since it has more flavor and advances your bloodline powers. Fighter 1/Sorc 4/RDD 8/EK 7 is another good variant if you don't want to go paladin.

[DarthPinkHippo]

@SpoCk0nd0pe
Exactly the build I decided to use! Awesome!

Any thoughts on what items I should buy?

[soupturtle]

For 1500 gp? Just a basic melee fighter's kit, I'd say. A masterwork glaive, a sling (much cheaper than a composite longbow and more damage than a non-composite bow or crossbow), a cold iron morningstar, an alchemical silver dagger and a couple of oils of magic weapon and bless weapon. And a share in the party's wand of cure light wounds, off course. Plus any mundane items you like and might get use out of. Save whatever you have left for your magic weapon, or mithral chain shirt if you're going the arcane armor training route.