Construct Armor


Rules Questions


7 people marked this as FAQ candidate. 2 people marked this as a favorite.

I couldn't find a thread that specifically answered these questions and there was no current thread on it so, here we go.

What exactly can one do while in Construct Armor?

The FAQ has clarified what it can do defensively, but what about attacks and movement modes?

Starting with attacks, there's this line from the rule itself:

Construct Armor wrote:
"...the construct performs no independent actions, remaining under the control of the creator..."

So, while wearing the armor, can you command/control it to attack? If yes, whose stats do I use? The user or the construct? Is the action economy the same?

Further down,

Construct Armor wrote:
"The construct’s wearer retains his base attacks..."

I can read this in two ways:

1.) While in the suit, the only attacks available to the wearer are the ones the wearer had while outside the construct.
2.) While in the suit, the constructs attacks do not override the wearers attacks and he still has access to them (the wearers native attack profile) as well as the attacks the construct natively has.

As for movement, what about constructs that can fly, such as the Angelic Guardian? According to the FAQ, the "breastplate" the construct is doesn't negatively effect your movement, but what about the positive benefits of the construct?


One bump before letting this fade to the ether. Don't know why I posted this at 5 in the morning originally.


I have been asking the same questions... my gm lets me use my cannon holems cannon and his strength and dex. But I have not seen anything official

The Exchange

to be honest, it sounds like a mundane version of the summoner's synthesist archetype ability:

Fused Eidolon:

A synthesist summons the essence of a powerful outsider to meld with his own being. The synthesist wears the eidolon like translucent, living armor. The eidolon mimics all of the synthesist’s movements, and the synthesist perceives through the eidolon’s senses and speaks through its voice, as the two are now one creature.

While fused with his eidolon, the synthesist uses the eidolon’s physical ability scores (Strength, Dexterity, and Constitution), but retains his own mental ability scores (Intelligence, Wisdom, and Charisma). The synthesist gains the eidolon’s hit points as temporary hit points. When these hit points reach 0, the eidolon is killed and sent back to its home plane. The synthesist uses the eidolon’s base attack bonus, and gains the eidolon’s armor and natural armor bonuses and modifiers to ability scores. The synthesist also gains access to the eidolon’s special abilities and the eidolon’s evolutions. The synthesist is still limited to the eidolon’s maximum number of natural attacks. The eidolon has no skills or feats of its own. The eidolon must be at least the same size as the synthesist. The eidolon must have limbs for the synthesist to cast spells with somatic components. The eidolon’s temporary hit points can be restored with the rejuvenate eidolon spell.

While fused, the synthesist loses the benefits of his armor. He counts as both his original type and as an outsider for any effect related to type, whichever is worse for the synthesist. Spells such as banishment or dismissal work normally on the eidolon, but the synthesist is unaffected. Neither the synthesist nor his eidolon can be targeted separately, as they are fused into one creature. The synthesist and eidolon cannot take separate actions. While fused with his eidolon, the synthesist can use all of his own abilities and gear, except for his armor. In all other cases, this ability functions as the summoner’s normal eidolon ability (for example, the synthesist cannot use his summon monster ability while the eidolon is present).


Construct armor sounds cool, but the rules are incomplete.
If you start with a golem the 'base' construct...are you immune to magic (in the same ways golems are)?
Do you get the Damage Reduction?
Movement modes?
Can the construct armor be enchanted like armor?
Do you inherit construct traits (Immunity to all mind-affecting, bleed, disease, death, necromancy, paralysis, poison, sleep, stunning, ability damage/drain, fatigue, exhaustion, energy drain, nonlethal damage, massive damage) while the armor is intact?
Do Special attacks and Defenses transfer?

Or is it 'just' a HP sponge.


I agree the rules seem incomplete.

You aren't the golem, it is a seperate entity. Why would you get the immunities? Or the damage reduction? If they are attempting to damage the golem that is one thing those come into play.

Movement modes, you are able to command the golem to do things so you could command it to fly up, climb that tree, etc. So in a way you do get those.

Golems aren't armor, they are a creature so no you couldn't enchant one after the fact as far as RAW goes.

Certain defenses may come into play (an aura for example would be up and running) or things that the golem may activate (because you command it to) on other targets or in an area. The same for attacks.

You just need to remember the character and golem are two seperate entities.


There is a FAQ? Nice! Linkity?

I have looked into building golem armour extensivly as I think it looks awsome thematicaly, however I have ran into more questions then answers. Let me add to the list
1) size. Minor issue but most of the good golems are size large or larger. This means you have to run around in a permanced enlarge person. Can you legaly add the young template to your golem and reflavour it as minor or sumsuch? Probably a gm call, but I wantes to get it out of the way first.
2) It states that only the creator can wear it. Is it entirely unreasonable that he could create it for someone else and show them how to operate it?
3) Weight. A stone golem weighs 3000lbs. Does the wearer have to carry it like normal armour or does it support itself? Does the golem carry the wielder? Who's carrying capacity do you use, or do each get their own?
4) Magic immunity. Does the caster benifit from the golems immunities? I would imagine it would suffer from the drawbacks. How about the casters own spells?
5) Special abilities. Can a stone golem still use its slow attack? Can clockwork golem still use its grind attack? How about its wall of gears ability?
6) Special attacks. Can you attack with the golems slam attack or are you limited to your own attack forms? What about unique attacks like the cannon golems cannon?
7) Whose ablity scores do you use? I can undersand the mental ones but the physical ones are a little hazy.


Gobo Horde wrote:
There is a FAQ? Nice! Linkity?

It only covers the defensive aspect of Construct Armor.

Construct Armor


Ah more questions I forgot to ask about.
8) What happens when you give the golem the brain modification, and subsequently, feats? Say you give him something you don't have like two-weapon fighting or precise shot, can you make use of them?
9) How exactly is AC calculated? The golem counts as splint mail and enchanting it is simple enough, but what if you have dodge? What if your golem has dodge? Do racial bonuses to AC and such come into effect? Whose dex do you use? Basicaly are you attacking the character or the golem, or a combination of the two?
10) How is CR affected? Is it treated like another character, oris it treated more like a class feature 'pet' in that it costs a significant porton of your wealth?


1) Legality isn't really the issue, *if* your GM allows this we're in GM fiat territory regardless. This a custom magic item and is pretty much completely up to the GM.
2) See 1. Personally I'd just make an appropriately sized golem and adjust the stats for the size change. No template needed.
3) Read the FAQ, the golem isn't just an inanimate object to be carried. Your carrying capacity shouldn't impacted just like your speed doesn't decrease it seems.
4) Read the FAQ.
5) Read the Construct Armor, the construct doesn't take independant action when worn. It can use the ability but must be commanded to (typically a standard action as it has no other action specified).
6) This one is a great deal less straight forward. I personally would allow use of natural weapons with the typical rules regarding manufactured and natural weapons. You are still limited to your own BAB and constructs typically don't have more than 2 attacks so you aren't really gaining that much.
7) You use your stats, the construct uses its stats when commanded to do something when worn or when you are not wearing it. Nothing in the write up hints at anything else.
8) Read the Construct Armor. The construct takes no independant actions when being worn. Using feats would be an independant action, as would granting you access to the feat. You could command the construct to answer or do something and it would use the feat or skills it gained from the modification.
9) It isn't splint mail, it is similar to breastplate for statistics (but isn't because it doesn't adjust speed). Nor is it armor, it is a construct, an actual creature. It can't be enchanted as armor. Your dodge feat would be active like normal. The constructs dodge feat would do nothing for the wearer. The wearer uses their stats, nothing points to you using the constructs stats (which incidentally would be acting independantly and so not possible). This isn't a 'combination' of the two like the synth, it is basically an item when worn and that can do specific actions when commanded by the wearer.
10) CR isn't affected if it is something the owner/character could afford.


Skylancer4 wrote:

...6) This one is a great deal less straight forward. I personally would allow use of natural weapons with the typical rules regarding manufactured and natural weapons. You are still limited to your own BAB and constructs typically don't have more than 2 attacks so you aren't really gaining that much.

....
9) It isn't splint mail, it is similar to breastplate for statistics (but isn't because it doesn't adjust speed). Nor is it armor, it is a construct, an actual creature. It can't be enchanted as armor. Your dodge feat would be active like normal. The constructs dodge feat would do nothing for the wearer. The wearer uses their stats, nothing points to you using the constructs stats (which incidentally would be acting independantly and so not possible). This isn't a 'combination' of the two like the synth, it is basically an item when worn and that can do specific actions...

good answers Skylancer, however, there are a few things you did not take into consideration based off of what UM had put in as rules for upgrading your constructs. for instance on your answer for #6 i agree for the most part, that you use your stats and your BAB for attacks. since your would allow the use of the Constructs slams or natural attacks since you are wearing it, then in UM it said you can modify and improve weapon and attack qualities as if it were a magical weapon using the Craft Arms and Armor feat and paying the apporiate costs. in doing this, you would then carry over the Enhancement modifiers you placed on the Constructs "weapons/attacks" since you are using them. its somthing to think about allowing since you would let the constructs "forms" of attacks carry over.

the same rule additions are true for #9 in the armor improvement section of upgrading you construct. only now you are improving it's enhancement value (and enchantments) to armor. these i would think should carry over moreso from using the Construct Armor portion than anything else. since wearing the construct "acts" like a breastplate for most purposes then the enchantments you put on your construct should carry over to you when wearing it as an armor. you enchanted it as if it were armor and thusly it should benefit you when wearing it as an armor.

i agree with you all in that it was not clear cut in the rules on how exactly to treat it. well, that is my 2 cents and a can of worms.


Wheres the confusion?

"So long as the creator wears it, the construct performs no independent actions, remaining under the control of the creator, and any attacks directed at the wearer damage the construct."

"The construct's wearer retains his base attacks and saves."

It merely acts as a separate HP total till destroyed or removed. You don't get its strength or immunities or anything like its .. cannon..


This is indeed a good FAQ candidate, as a few of my players have shown interest in trying out a set of Construct Armor.


The way I've interpreted the Construct Armor rules are like this:
1) The Construct and You are still 2 separate entities.

Construct Armor wrote:
So long as the creator wears it, the construct performs no independent actions

Going off of this I would assume each of you act separately, it's just that YOU now control the constructs actions instead of the GM (unless the GM allowed you to control it to begin with)

2)

Construct Armor wrote:
Construct armor counts as breastplate armor for purposes of determining AC, weight, Dexterity modifiers to AC, and chance of arcane spell failure.

This answers the questions about how, mechanically speaking, you would carry around a 3000 lb. golem construct as armor.

3) (Goes along with "2") GIVEN THE FACT that the words "arcane spell failure" are included in the description I have concluded that it is in fact possible to act on your own while inside the construct (AKA cast spells and such).

4)

Construct Armor wrote:
and any attacks directed at the wearer first damage the construct.

Going off of this quote from the construct armor description, I would think it is safe to assume they mean that all hit points, AC, DR, SR, Saves, etc. are based off the Constructs stats (Unless it is specifically targeting the wearer, such as a mind-affecting spell) This does bring one question to mind though: Do touch attacks ignore the Construct since it is acting as armor? I would assume this would be a GM ruling.

OF COURSE, all of this is up to the GM at question. This is just how I interpreted these rulings/descriptions


It's an enchanted suit of armor.

Can your full plate +5 take separate actions?
Can you use it's strength?


Kryzbyn wrote:

It's an enchanted suit of armor.

Can your full plate +5 take separate actions?
Can you use it's strength?

Interesting...If it's enchanted armor then why is it not listed among the magic armor?

http://www.d20pfsrd.com/magic-items/magic-armor

The Exchange Owner - D20 Hobbies

Speaking as someone using this armor in games, it doesn't allow you take any actions at all with the construct until you ask it to Transformer into itself next to you.

Expect table variance, enjoy.

BigP4nda wrote:
http://www.d20pfsrd.com/magic-items/magic-armor

Because you are looking it up in a site that has so many numerous errors that many people reject anything found on it, like me.

UM p114/115 wrote:
worn like armor by its creator ... Construct armor counts as breastplate armor for purposes of determining AC, weight, Dexterity modifiers to AC, and chance of arcane spell failure.


I've always assumed that if you are wearing "golem armor" you can use all your normal abilities, plus those of the "golem armor" ... think of it as a power armor suit..

You get all the abilities of the golem, and yourself. sort of like a synthesist.

Seems pretty straight forward to me.


James Risner wrote:
Because you are looking it up in a site that has so many numerous errors that many people reject anything found on it, like me.

The data and information on that site is straight out of the books, if you reject that site, then what rules do you even use?


Anyways, I think I have a better understanding that probably makes more sense, so basically it's armor that has it's own hp, dr, and resistances. Any mundane damage dealt to you has to go through the armor's defenses first, and if there is anything left THEN it will affect you. But area of effect spells, mind-affecting spells, traps, etc still effect you normally


I stand corrected. It's a modification made to an existing golem.
I guess it would function as normal, till you put it on.
At that point you're in complete control of the golem, you can use it's abilities, and it uses your BAB and saves.

Ultimate Magic wrote:

The construct’s wearer retains his base attacks and saves.

Construct armor counts as breastplate armor for purposes
of determining AC, weight, Dexterity modifers to AC, and
chance of arcane spell failure.

So when determining what defensive benefit it gives you, it's AC bonus becomes that of breastplate armor, using the max dex of breastplate armor, and the arcane spell failure chance of breastplate armor.

So while the golem while active might have an AC of 30, when worn it'll only be +6 AC, max DEX 3, 25% spell failure. FAQ says it doesn't affect your spd.

The Exchange Owner - D20 Hobbies

BigP4nda wrote:
The data and information on that site (d20pfsrd) is straight out of the books, if you reject that site, then what rules do you even use?

I don't use that site. I'll use the most recent printing of the book or archive of nethys. That site makes a habit of altering the text to "help" you understand.


I've been reading this and I think people are making things too complicated. The construct armor is a construct. Not actual armor. It remains a separate entity, but can only act as you direct. The modifiers it applies to you apply when you take an action, or an action applies to you, but other than that you essentially opperate as the construct until such time as it is destroyed. This whole section of the game is terribly vague though, making it (probably intentionally) completely the realm of GM fiat.

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