I am currently playing my first ever wizard and i find that i seem to be not much help to the party once out/low on spells or once the fight has boiled down to the mop up and casting would just be a waste/show boat move.
so what does a wizard do when not casting? currently my go to moves have been to help the barbarian by setting up flanking and/or using aid other for bonus to hit for him, or using crossbow for a little damage but i am finding as levels progress (currently at 7th) bad guys can one shot me in a round so getting into combat is getting a little dicey and AC on the badies is getting rather high so ranged attacks are dropping off as well.
I guess what i am looking for here is general wizard tactics throughout a fight ie cast a buff or two, throw some control or summons in and then "something".
so how do the wizards in your groups handle these situations both at low and mid range levels?
EDIT- my problem may just be that i am used to playing fighters and as such used to always having a clear "something" to be doing
Instead of using a crossbow you could cast a damage cantrip all day. The damage is lower but it is much more likely to hit. When fighting trolls or other regenerating monsters the acid splash can be everything that is needed for your party to win.
As an alternative you can use nonharmful cantrips to buff the party. Something like resistance for example.
Or you can use wands of 1st level spells that work well no matter what CL they are cast on.
Ill omen is a nice one for that. But I don't know if it is one the wizard list.
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Some addon about damage cantrips:
Just because their base damage is just 1d3 that doesn't mean that's all they can do. Have a bottle of acid around or a flask of liquid ice and your ray of frost or your acid splash does 1d3+1. And as rays count as weapons the get all those bonuses that apply to weapon damage. For example inspire courage (bardic performance), point blank shot, flagbearer (feat), the prayer spell and many more.
I had one a sorc build that did 1d3+7 with his ray of frost at first level just with self buffs.
Mine usually sleeps.
But if you're really running out of spells in the middle of the day, you should probably rethink your spell usage. And buy Pearls of Power. And Wands. And Scrolls.
Really anything that gives you more spells is OOOOOH TAY! A wand of Web or Grease or summat will serve you in good standing.
RJ nailed it, it's a home brew game and the GM is mean to the point of cruel when it comes to the CR of encounters lol (if going by the CR scale in the core book almost ever fight would be considered legendary), the trouble is that in his mind a fight is not fun unless the party has just about tapped all resources in order to overcome it...and then he will throw in another just like it to really make us work =(
an example would be forcing an encounter with 4 gargoyles on a lvl 5 party of 4 with two members below 0 hp including the cleric, we survive somehow through a combination of shear dumb luck and determination (with a dash of min maxing)
but whining aside i like the idea of beefing up acid splash if possible as i always have it on the list as i am a conjurer and its the only 0 lvl conjuration i have access to, so what are some of the ways to buy the damage on cantrips ie is it only through spells or can certain magic items boost it as well?
In regards to beefing up Acid Splash, check out the Alchemical Power Component of Acid for it. It's not much, but if your GM lets you, you can use the Acid as a focus for the spell to add 1 point of damage.
My level 4 wizard has defeated a mummy with marbles, rescuing our badly damaged fighter in the process. Marbles aren't great, but they're cheap, and it can be yet another check for the bad guy to make. If he fails, he goes down and gets hit by attacks of opportunity when he gets up. Giving your fighter free attacks is one of the best things you can do as a wizard.
Basically, wizard tactics as I understand them so far (I'm also playing my first wizard ever) are:
* Try to go first in round 1
* Round 1: Cast something that turns the circumstances of the battle in favor of your melee guys
* Round 2+: If your melee guys are swamped, need to work too hard, are taking damage, etc, cast something else to assist them further.
* Round X: sit back and let your melee guys win the battle for you.
Your contributions count most heavily in the early rounds. Once you're winning, stop wasting those precious spells. Use cantrips or items. Acid splash, marbles, crossbow, longbow if you're an elf, etc. But stay out of melee, make sure the others can focus on fighting rather than saving you. Help them where you can, but stay out of the way otherwise.
When the battle doesn't go the way it's supposed to, cast something else to give your guys the edge again.
You shine during the early rounds. You dictate the circumstances of the battle. If the circumstances are not in your favour, you're the one who can change them. Once you've done that, it's the turn for your melee guys to shine by finishing them off.
If they need a flanking buddy or other help in melee, you summon one. You don't offer up your own body for that job. Note that at level 7, a first level Summon Monster still summons a flanking buddy for 7 turns. This is an excellent deal.
Other first level spells like Grease and Silent Image can win an entire encounter for you in the right circumstances.
hmm just having a quick read, point blank shot and deadly aim might actually work out, will need to think about the feat investment but it is intriguing none the less as acid splash is ranged touch so even at penalties to hit from deadly aim most baddies as still well hitable.
I just it comes down to is there something other than damage i should be focusing on, we have a barbarian who causes ridiculous damage with his great sword already, even with the tough bad guys he still usually drops things in a round or two so maybe damage should just be left to him and i should try to control in some non spell related way?
Crafting or buying a Wand of Magic Missiles at caster level 9 will hold you a long time before you need to re-invest into that again. 6750 gp or half that if you have Craft Wands.
If I remember right deadly aim doesn't work with ranged touch attacks.
I have found as a conjurer my main tactics spell wise usually go something along the lines of Stinking Cloud in round 1, then summon some monsters for assistance in rounds 2-3, then maybe do some of the less effective stuff i mentioned earlier. Also Haste has been a big party favorite, as well as some clever uses of silent image to summon a "ghost"/walls/spikes/copies of characters. by far the best spell i had for about 4 levels was color spray, with that and grease the party dropped an ogre at lvl 1.
checked and yeah Umbranus was right about deadly aim on touch attacks so no go on that one =(
EDIT: Ooops, ninja'd. Ignore this.
GreyFox, Deadly Aim does not work with touch attacks, so unfortunately that specific suggestion won't work.
It is not the wizard's job to do damage. Since this is your first wizard, and you've played only fighter types before, I forgive you for being confused. Your job is to be interesting, change the balance on the field. What wizard type are you? If evoker, try to take some feats like rime spell that add an effect to the damage you do. If not evoker, you have many options for messing with the enemy. Walls or illusions to divide the field of combat. Summons. Control like create pit, web, grease. Buffs like haste, heroism, bulls strength.
yeah for the most part i try and play a "controller", i read treatmonks guide for the "god" wizard and it made a lot of sense to me, and so far i am proud to say i have not memorized magic missile once during seven levels lol (i dont even have the spell) because grease is just too damn useful and color spray was awesometacular for the first 4 levels. Same too goes for fireball (i have that one) which doesnt get to see the light of day because stinking cloud muscles its way into the list on a daily basis because the debuff is just too damn good to pass up for damage
here is the basic rundown of the character as he stands atm, any suggested improvements welcome as the group has been on a long break and the GM has given us the chance for a minor respec (as in maybe swap out some feats and swap stats around a little)
* note on stats - GM gave us a 30 point stat buy as he is really stingy on magic items and cash (currently the only magic item i have is a belt of mighty con + 4 which the barbarian wants, but he already has magic armor/weapons and gets buffed to hell each fight so the belt went to me....for now) stats for the belt not included below
Male Wizard 7
Init +5; Senses Perception +2
==DEFENSE==
AC 13, touch 13, flat-footed 10 (+3 dex)
hp 44 (7d6+7)
SR 0
Fort +3, Ref +5, Will +7
==OFFENSE==
Spd 30 ft/x4
Melee Quarterstaff +3 (1d6) 20/x2 monk
Ranged Light Crossbow +6 (1d8) 19-20/x2
Special Attacks Summoner's Charm (PFCR 80)
==STATISTICS==
Str 10, Dex 16, Con 12, Int 21, Wis 14, Cha 7
BAB +3, CMB +3, CMD +16
Feats Augment Summoning (PFCR 118), Combat Casting (PFCR 119), Extend Spell (PFCR 123), Greater Spell Focus (PFCR 125), Scribe Scroll (PFCR 132), Spell Focus (Conjuration) (PFCR 134), Superior Summoning (PFUM 157)
Skills Appraise +15, Craft (alchemy) +9, Fly +10, Knowledge (arcana) +15, Knowledge (dungeoneering) +10, Knowledge (engineering) +10, Knowledge (geography) +10, Knowledge (history) +10, Knowledge (local) +10, Knowledge (nature) +10, Knowledge (nobility) +10, Knowledge (religion) +10, Knowledge (planes) +10, Linguistics +15, Ride +8, Spellcraft +15
SQ Arcane Bond (PFCR 78), Specialty school Conjuration (teleportation) opposition schools (Necromany/Enchantment)
Traits Focused Mind (Magic) (PFAPG 329), Reactionary (Combat) (PFAPG 328)
Languages Abyssal, Aquan, Auran, Celestial, Common, Draconic, Elven, Giant, Ignan, Infernal, Sylvan, Terran, Undercommon
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Magic Missile isn't a bad spell actually, but you gotta know what to use it for.
- enemies that are almost dead; now the fighter can move on to FA something that's more than half healthy.
- enemies with a handful of HP that try to flee; MM's range and certainty of hitting are especially good here.
I find it worthwhile to prepare 1-2 MMs, but then we also have a nemesis who uses Shadow Projection, so force damage is at a premium.
Magic Missile is situationally excellent. When you encounter a monster that's incorporeal or otherwise hard to hit, magic missile will still work. Just a simple 1st level wand of Magic Missile for 750 gp will last you a long time, and you'll be happy to have it when you need it.
Preparing Magic Missile is less useful, because you never know when you're going to need it, and when you do, you probably need a lot of it.
Basically, you need wands in this campaign. A wand of magic missiles is a great way to keep flexibility in spell slots while still having something to do in every round. You want wands that don't require saves due to the low DCs.
But that's academic, as you have an adversarial DM.
So, the best alchemical item out there is tanglefoot bag. Ranged touch, automatically slows the target's speed and may immobilize. In either case, stand back and use your speed advantage to kill with ranged attacks.
And if your barbarian closes with an entangled opponent, threaten to never buff him again!
Seconding the above.
What I haven't seen said here yet is the purpose behind having magical supplements. Scrolls are of course great for keeping situational spells on hand, and every wizard should have a variety. Especially since they get scribe scroll for free!
But what YOU really need to concentrate on is wands. For a sorcerer, wands are a great way to cast spells that are not on their list of spells known. For a wizard, wands give staying power. Low level spells that don't depend on DC (wand of grease, anyone?) make excellent choices. I understand the philosophy behind a wand of magic missile, but I've never been that enthused. You can chip away with acid orb or ray of frost for free. What wand of MM comes down to is: is the cost of the wand worth being able to hit anything that I can see? After a high enough level, 700 GP is nothing so it becomes worth it.
The only problem I see is that if your GM wants to exhaust your resources every day, then nothing prevents him from tacking on more encounters when you get better at conserving resources. You could end up spending a bunch of money on expendables and shifting your spell selection only to find that your group is suddenly having 8 or 9 encounters per day instead of 5 or 6.
Low level spells that don't depend on DC (wand of grease, anyone?) make excellent choices.
Grease depends on DC.
I understand the philosophy behind a wand of magic missile, but I've never been that enthused. You can chip away with acid orb or ray of frost for free. What wand of MM comes down to is: is the cost of the wand worth being able to hit anything that I can see? After a high enough level, 700 GP is nothing so it becomes worth it.
Exactly. And it always hits, including incorporeal targets, which can be very hard to hit otherwise. It's not something you must absolutely buy as soon as possible, but if you ever have a few hundred gp left over and need something extra for the occasional hard to hit target, it's an excellent choice.
The only problem I see is that if your GM wants to exhaust your resources every day, then nothing prevents him from tacking on more encounters when you get better at conserving resources. You could end up spending a bunch of money on expendables and shifting your spell selection only to find that your group is suddenly having 8 or 9 encounters per day instead of 5 or 6.
So don't use your expendable resources every day. Try to make it on your prepared spells, and when the GM thinks you're all tapped out and vulnerable, you tap into those expendables. It's your reserve, and not something you want to use every day.
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With the wizard I play right now (conjurer, level 8, Treantmonk style), once I've cast a few (summoning) spells, I tend to hang back and cheer on the 2HW fighter and/or the hound archon. It's some very hurried casting in the beginning, but after that I can sit back.
I also try to conserve resources; I know the cleric's player isn't doing that, so in a second encounter I have to carry more of the load.
I try not to let the GM notice how many resources I'm still keeping in store; I don't want to make him feel that he's not exhausting us sufficiently.
A rod of wonder means a laugh a minute. It must be what being Robin Williams feels like.
Everyone else seems to have covered the spell-slinging side well enough. Let's talk about other things wizards can do.
First off, use your Int. Do Knowledge checks, see if you can figure out what you're fighting, tell people about it and its weaknesses.
Think about tactics and what the monsters might be up to. Think about the general situation. Anticipate what might go wrong and be prepared to counter it. Considering readying spells for a particular situation that might be dangerous (e.g., "if the monster tries to run I use my wand to grease the area it enters" or "if another monster shows up I magic missile it")
My druid was built as an archer in part because I wanted her to be a competent combat participant without using any spells at all. That has proven to be a good tactical approach since she has been able to reserve her spell casting for major encounters. There is no reason a wizard couldn't take the same approach. But it does mean dedicating feats to the archery tree instead of to more wizardly pursuits.
Lacking that a wizard can always fall back on cantrips. Personally I'd prefer a wizard using "ray of frost" or "acid splash" to attempting to use a crossbow in combat. The damage isn't going to be that great in either case, but using cantrips frees the wizard up to move around without having to reload a crossbow.
Other options are to focus on spells like "flaming sphere" which allow the wizard to contribute without casting a spell every round.
Once you're in mop-up, you probably want to either use cantrips, or just delay so that you can react to any unexpected developments, such as new threats arriving, immediately. Don't feel bad about not contributing during those rounds. It can be frustrating, but that's the price you pay for being a resource-limited class in a campaign that actually plays enough encounters per day to expend those resources.
Wands and scrolls are great things to have in your pocket in general, as are pearls of power, though it sounds like magical gear isn't exactly flowing.
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Seconding the Orb spells (Flaming, Aqueous). Look for spells that last for a round/level that you can move around. Dust Wall is a nice one, too. Also keep an eye open for spells like Telekinesis and Enemy Hammer that let you do something as a standard action for a round/level; combine one of each and you can go an entire combat just casting two or three spells. (Alternately, if you have a good strength, any of the beast shape spells could be nice, too.)
PS: Using a Rod of Persist (each foe has to save twice for each spell) makes them way more annoying.
Low level spells that don't depend on DC (wand of grease, anyone?) make excellent choices.Grease depends on DC.
You're absolutely right. I was only thinking of one application. Let me rephrase.
Low level spells that have effects that don't depend on DC make excellent choices. Using grease as an example, you can perform some basic battlefield control by limiting the paths that baddies take to get to you, or at least slowing them down. They can still get to you quickly with an acrobatics check, but a level 1 spell isn't going to be able to block everything. It won't do a thing for flying opponents either, so it depends on when/where/how you use it. Meanwhile, grease has other uses too, though as mcv pointed out those uses are dependent on DC.
you get scribe scroll for free, plan on using it
often its less expensive than buying wands since scribing is only 12.5 x spell level x caster level gp so you can get some decent use out of them
basically whenever you guys arent fighting things and you arent sleeping, you know that time period where your DM goes "what do you wanna do while you're in town?" you should be scribing up some things. it basically gives you extra spells per day at a gp cost, if you wanna spend the higher amounts of gp on them, then you can get away with basically doubling the amount of high level spells you have by making yourself some scrolls if in game you have a few days of down time
The thing about scrolls is that you may have to invest a move action in readying one for use. If you do prepare scrolls in this fashion, and your party uses the concept of a party fund, you could argue that the scrolls prepared this way should be paid for out of the party fund.
In one of my recent campaigns the party had a wizard who would frequently summon some monster on the first round, then turn invisible and hide during combat and let his summoned monster be his proxy in combat.
I'm playing a summoner with a lowish Dexterity, so I went with a reach weapon to fight from the second rank behind the front-rankers and my eidolon when I'm running low on useful spells for the situation. But then, not being a wizard, I do have some options with the character that are a little more combat-robust.
I also multiclassed as a bard because I was using (and needing) a lot of social skills early in my career. That gives me the option of inspiring courage too.
To people recommending wands and/or scrolls, do note that creating these items does cost money, money the OP has said is short in coming:
GM gave us a 30 point stat buy as he is really stingy on magic items and cash
So all this recommending of "get X item(s)" might not be something the OP can even have as an option - I don't see a listed inventory on the character sheet he posted, but since he said "the only magic item I have is my +4 Con Belt", I'm guessing wands are in short supply and there's no Magic Mart to pick one or two up at. Scrolls are a bit less of an issue, as he is a wizard, but again eventually he's going to run out of gold.
I played a wizard and decided to go eldirch knight. I liked buffing myself [ ;) ] and doing damage, while having the ability to fill in and even spread some spells around. I also didn't know what to do when I ran out of spells, and having the go-to of "I plug the BBEG with an arrow, it's keen, flaming, and came from a +4 GMW bow". I picked up the path later in the campaign, but it worked and was fun. Good luck.
To people recommending wands and/or scrolls, do note that creating these items does cost money, money the OP has said is short in coming:
GM gave us a 30 point stat buy as he is really stingy on magic items and cashSo all this recommending of "get X item(s)" might not be something the OP can even have as an option - I don't see a listed inventory on the character sheet he posted, but since he said "the only magic item I have is my +4 Con Belt", I'm guessing wands are in short supply and there's no Magic Mart to pick one or two up at. Scrolls are a bit less of an issue, as he is a wizard, but again eventually he's going to run out of gold.
That would certainly put a damper on things. But I will also add my +1 to the Wand of Magic Missile. My current char uses a CL7 wand to shoot 4 missiles at moments when a different spell would be over-kill. Ironically, with all the other more powerful things my char can do, my GM wishes he had never allowed me to make the MM wand.
With cash and items in short supply it may be beneficial to get some crafting feats. Craft Wand would help alleviate your current problem. But a craft wondrous items would benefit the party as a whole more. (assuming there is adequate downtime to craft)
I'm surprised the (to me) obvious use of Magic Missile hasn't been mentioned yet. It's great against casters.
After you have set the battlefield, nothing is worse than having an opposing spell-caster come along and screw it up. Have a Magic Missile ready to interrupt a bad guys that tries to get a spell off. At 7th level you will do an average of 14 damage, that is a 24+spell level DC concentration check to keep the spell.
Also, while you certainly want to stay out of melee when possible, sometimes it is unavoidable, or the enemy has ranged attacks. The 2nd level Mirror Image spell is one of the best defensive spells in the game. It won't last forever as you lose images, but it can really save your bacon.
With a lack of money and magic items, I think your only option is to try to make a few scrolls for when it really hits the fan. You probably won't be able to afford to use them everyday, but having even one when it counts is worth the trouble of making it.
its not always the same thing... but whatever it is, it uasualy involves sock puppets...
BWAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!
Okay, that's it. The next Wizard I play is going to specialize in battlefield control, and spend his off time playing with sock puppets that mimic the rest of the party. He will believe himself to be controlling the thrust of battle with his awesome puppeteering skills. Maybe he'll be a bard instead, so that I can negotiate with the GM to use Inspire Courage from Perform (Puppeteer).
Outside of battle, he's "cast" all these enchantment spells that he doesn't actually know, and try to get everyone to perform according to his whims.