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I understand that a demons revisited doesn't automatically imply a devils revisited is on the cards. However, if you were casting about for something to do, i wonder if Wes has some free time he hasn't yet committed to making awesome stuff.
Please register one vote in favour of using up his "spare" time.
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Perhaps this might be what you are looking for Pathfinder Chronicles: Book of the Damned—Volume 1: Princes of Darkness (PFRPG) or maybe this: Pathfinder Campaign Setting: Book of the Damned—Volume 2: Lords of Chaos (PFRPG)and finally there is this: Pathfinder Campaign Setting: Book of the Damned—Volume 3: Horsemen of the Apocalypse (PFRPG). I hope this helps.
I vote aye!
Perhaps this might be what you are looking for...
I think what's requested here is a Revisited book on devils where 10 of them are given an extensive writeup like that seen in other Revisited books. While Book of the Damned Vol. I: Princes of Darkness is definitely an excellent tome on devilkind, its focus is divided between the archdevils, their domains, mortal worshipers, and a bit of relatively generic information on various types of devil. A Devils Revisited would be all about the 10 types of devil covered in it.
That said, all three books you suggested are excellent suggestions as they do give quite a bit of insight into the schemes and plots of daemon-, demon-, and devilkind.
But yeah, +1 from me regarding a Devils Revisited book.
I vote yes...especially if they cover Cabal devils.
Perhaps this might be what you are looking for Pathfinder Chronicles: Book of the Damned—Volume 1: Princes of Darkness (PFRPG) or maybe this: Pathfinder Campaign Setting: Book of the Damned—Volume 2: Lords of Chaos (PFRPG)and finally there is this: Pathfinder Campaign Setting: Book of the Damned—Volume 3: Horsemen of the Apocalypse (PFRPG). I hope this helps.
Cheers - I do have those and they're excellent. As Heine Stick said, I was suggesting something to complement Princes Of Darkness - along the lines of the other "revisited" books.
Prince of the Damned vol. 1 was the first book I can remember buying and actually reading all the way through for Pathfinder.
I'm not against it, but there are enough books about devils. The celestials badly need revisiting.
I'm not against it, but there are enough books about devils. The celestials badly need revisiting.
So far we'e seen 1 sourcebook dedicated to devils and that one handled the archdevils, their realms, their mortal worshipers and minions, and a somewhat generic overview of the more common devilkind.
What this sort of book offers is 6'ish pages of Pathfinder-specific information on each devil covered in a Revisited book. So while Book of the Damned Vol. I: Princes of Darkness gave a broad overview of various types of devil, this one goes into much more detail, arming GMs with even more fodder for their infernal campaigns.
Of course, if devils aren't high on your radar, then what's been released already (Book of the Damned Vol. I: Princes of Darkness and the Council of Thieves adventure path) is likely enough for you and that's great. For those of us who crave more information on devils, however, a Devils Revisited book is a gift from the heavens. Or would that be Hell? Hmm...
All that said, I'm so buying Agathions/Angels/Azatas Revisited WHEN they happen (note my optimism)! While Chronicle of the Righteous is a massive step in the right direction, it does for celestials what the Book of the Damned series does for fiends. It gives a broad overview of celestials. A <insert celestial type> Revisited book would provide a fantastic amount of detail on specific types of celestial that I can't recall having seen in previous books on the topic.
I agree that the Revisited books are very useful, particularly cause Books of the Damned are focused on the fiendish rulers and there's a small chance the pcs will ever meet them. Just saying personally I can wait on the devils because of older edition sources (e.g. Faces of Evil, Blood War, Fiendish Codex, Book of the Fiends ...), celestials only have Warriors of Heaven and Book of Exalted Deeds, and they are mostly useless.
Please no Angels revised! Devils or daemons it should be! Angels don't get much attention because they are allies, and allies are rare in the world :p
Please no Angels revised! Devils or daemons it should be! Angels don't get much attention because they are allies, and allies are rare in the world :p
Angels and other celestials can serve a number of different roles, among them the roles of ally and adversary (though, admittedly, ally is the more common of the two). More importantly, however, an Agathions/Angels/Archons/Azatas Revisited book will provide an excellent resource for planar adventures, providing a Pathfinder spin on the classic celestials.
Such a tome might also be an invaluable resource for GMs wanting to inject a bit of the heavens into the Wrath of the Righteous adventure path. It would allow for greater depth to the planar allies called by the characters during the adventure path and GMs will have a tool handy for any side quests and subplots they create with celestials as the focal point.
My personal want list looks something like this:
1) Devils Revisited
2) Angels Revisited (I can live with a Celestials Revisited)
3) Kytons Revisited
They're not in competition. I'm sure someone can start an angels revisited thread if they want, but this thread is a request for devils revisited.
I want to see devils revisited to complement Princes of Darkness and give more material directly relevant to running a session. The lords of darkness books gave some awesome flavour material, but don't focus so much on the foes likely to be encountered throughout the actual adventuring career of a party. With rare exception, the various revisited entries are fantastic for inspiring adventures. I confess I find it hard to keep the various evil outsiders PCs encounter distinct - they often just blur into statblocks and special abilities.
I'd like to see a 'Devils Revisited', especially if they covered at a few devils who weren't from Bestiary 1.
Yes, devils like Zebub, Gylou, Puragaus and Bdellavritra are in my opinion more interesting than Pit Fiend, Cornugon and Lemure.
Gelugon and Erinyes are my favorite bestiary 1 creatures, I really like to see more of those two!
I confess I find it hard to keep the various evil outsiders PCs encounter distinct - they often just blur into statblocks and special abilities.
Aye, that's how I feel as well and I think this is where the Revisited books really shine. They breathe life into the critters and make them more than just stat blocks.
I'll just go ahead and nominate the following:
Devil, Apostate
Devil, Cabal
Devil, Pit Fiend
Devil, Ice
Devil, Barbed
Devil, Erinyes
Devil, Bearded
Devil, Bone
Devil, Horned
Devil, Advodaza
Agathion, Avoral
Agathion, Leonal
Angel,Astral Deva
Angel, Planetar
Angel, Solar
Archon, Hound
Archon, Trumpet
Azata, Bralani
Azata, Ghaele
Azata, Lillend
I would love to have a "Devils Revisited" book, and I would like it even more if it focused more on some of the newer devils.
Just so that there's a list for people to use, here's all the devils that have appeared in a Paizo product with updated Pathfinder rules, plus two written by F. Wesley Schneider for Kobold Quarterly and one that has never been updated (and whose status as a devil is in question, since the crepitus was demoted to devil-kin):
CR 01 Lemure - B1
CR 01 Nupperibo - ToHC, AP61*
CR 02 Imp - B1
CR 03 Accuser Devil (Zebub) - B2
CR 03 Lesser Host Devil (Gaav) - BotD1
CR 04 Tinder Devil (Ukobach) - AP24
CR 05 Bearded Devil (Barbazu) - B1
CR 06 Greater Host Devil (Magaav) - BotD1
CR 06 Lesser Possession Devil (Gidim) - AP29
CR 07 Salikotal Devil - AP25
CR 07 Warmonger Devil (Levaloch) - BotD1
CR 08 Crusader Devil (Ascensoriel) - KQ23
CR 08 Drowning Devil (Sarglagon) - AP60
CR 08 Erinyes - B1
CR 09 Bone Devil (Osyluth) - B1
CR 09 Chortov Devil - AP27
CR 10 Cabal Devil (Uniila) - AP28
CR 10 Contract Devil (Phistophilus) - B3
CR 11 Barbed Devil (Hamatula) - B1
CR 12 Heresy Devil (Ayngavhaul) - BotD1
CR 12 Hunter Devil (Edavagor) - KQ22
CR 13 Ashmede Devil - BoF, TotIM*
CR 13 Ice Devil (Gelugon) - B1
CR 14 Handmaiden Devil (Gylou) - B2
CR 15 Greater Possession Devil (Gidim) - AP29
CR 16 Belier Devil (Bdellavritra) - B2
CR 16 Horned Devil (Cornugon) - B1
CR 17 Apostate Devil (Deimavigga) - BotD1
CR 18 Nemesis Devil (Advodaza) - AP30
CR 19 Immolation Devil (Puragaus) - B2
CR 20 Pit Fiend - B1
Devil with 3.5 Stats:
CR 09 Ghalshoaton - PSP
* = Monster in the adventure, no formal writeup given in a Paizo product.
BoF = "Book of Fiends"
PSP = "The Pact Stone Pyramid"
TotIM = "Tomb of the Iron Medusa"
Why there is not much love for the Bestiary 2 Devils? They are really the best devils out there.
Why there is not much love for the Bestiary 2 Devils? They are really the best devils out there.
The Monsters Revisited series tends to feature iconic monsters (aka 3.5 monsters that have been featured in the first or second Bestiary). That said, I believe if they ever did a Devils Revisited they'd only be able to choose ten of them. Hopefully they'd choose Devils that we'd be able to get Half-Devils from (so that probably means Lemures, Imps, and Zebubs would be crossed out as I don't think those types of Devils can spawn Half-Devils easily).
Why there is not much love for the Bestiary 2 Devils? They are really the best devils out there.The Monsters Revisited series tends to feature iconic monsters (aka 3.5 monsters that have been featured in the first or second Bestiary). That said, I believe if they ever did a Devils Revisited they'd only be able to choose ten of them. Hopefully they'd choose Devils that we'd be able to get Half-Devils from (so that probably means Lemures, Imps, and Zebubs would be crossed out as I don't think those types of Devils can spawn Half-Devils easily).
Of course, they can always "cheat" when doing the ten devils and choose to do both the lesser and greater versions of a devil, such as the Gaav/Magaav or both the Gidims. There is precedent for this, with the Nabasu/Vrolikai article in "Demons Revisited."
Speaking of half-fiends, it kind of makes you wonder what kind of foul monstrosity would even consider having intercourse with something like a Babau, Nalfeshnee, Hezrou, or a Vrock. Assuming of course the demon parent hasn't changed it's shape somehow.
Speaking of half-fiends, it kind of makes you wonder what kind of foul monstrosity would even consider having intercourse with something like a Babau, Nalfeshnee, Hezrou, or a Vrock. Assuming of course the demon parent hasn't changed it's shape somehow.
I'm guessing for the Hezrou it'd be the boggards they are noted to work with most often. Babaus might work well for a properly protected and food fetishizing dhampir.
Though given these are supremely evil beings it is possible there is no considering or consent on the mortal side of the equation.
I too would love to see a Devils Revisited book.
Creative Director
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Speaking of half-fiends, it kind of makes you wonder what kind of foul monstrosity would even consider having intercourse with something like a Babau, Nalfeshnee, Hezrou, or a Vrock. Assuming of course the demon parent hasn't changed it's shape somehow.
Intercourse is only one way you can get a half-demon. There's other ways.
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Speaking of half-fiends, it kind of makes you wonder what kind of foul monstrosity would even consider having intercourse with something like a Babau, Nalfeshnee, Hezrou, or a Vrock. Assuming of course the demon parent hasn't changed it's shape somehow.Intercourse is only one way you can get a half-demon. There's other ways.
Could you maybe elaborate on some of the other ways? Might be weird to ask but I was really interested in these templates and if there is a different way to acquire the half-fiend template it'd be cool to know.
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Creative Director
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Could you maybe elaborate on some of the other ways? Might be weird to ask but I was really interested in these templates and if there is a different way to acquire the half-fiend template it'd be cool to know.Speaking of half-fiends, it kind of makes you wonder what kind of foul monstrosity would even consider having intercourse with something like a Babau, Nalfeshnee, Hezrou, or a Vrock. Assuming of course the demon parent hasn't changed it's shape somehow.Intercourse is only one way you can get a half-demon. There's other ways.
I can, and did, in Demons Revisited and in Lords of Chaos.
Also, the very first Pathfinder Adventure, "Burnt Offerings," features a character who is seeking to undergo a ritual to become a demon—part of that ritual would eventually result in her becoming a half demon as a sort of stepping-stone on the way to being a full demon.
Being exposed to raw and powerful Abyssal energies can turn you into a half-demon in much the same way sci-fi/comic book radiation can turn you into a super-villain.
I'd say miracles and wishes and the intervention of a deity, or a spell similar to but more powerful than reincarnate could do the job.
Certain artifacts can effect such a transformation.
Some demon lords can grant the half-demon template as a gift.
Etc.
Could you maybe elaborate on some of the other ways? Might be weird to ask but I was really interested in these templates and if there is a different way to acquire the half-fiend template it'd be cool to know.Speaking of half-fiends, it kind of makes you wonder what kind of foul monstrosity would even consider having intercourse with something like a Babau, Nalfeshnee, Hezrou, or a Vrock. Assuming of course the demon parent hasn't changed it's shape somehow.Intercourse is only one way you can get a half-demon. There's other ways.
We know the woman who made the world possible did a ritual to turn herself into a half succubus.
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Could you maybe elaborate on some of the other ways? Might be weird to ask but I was really interested in these templates and if there is a different way to acquire the half-fiend template it'd be cool to know.Speaking of half-fiends, it kind of makes you wonder what kind of foul monstrosity would even consider having intercourse with something like a Babau, Nalfeshnee, Hezrou, or a Vrock. Assuming of course the demon parent hasn't changed it's shape somehow.Intercourse is only one way you can get a half-demon. There's other ways.I can, and did, in Demons Revisited and in Lords of Chaos.
Also, the very first Pathfinder Adventure, "Burnt Offerings," features a character who is seeking to undergo a ritual to become a demon—part of that ritual would eventually result in her becoming a half demon as a sort of stepping-stone on the way to being a full demon.
Being exposed to raw and powerful Abyssal energies can turn you into a half-demon in much the same way sci-fi/comic book radiation can turn you into a super-villain.
I'd say miracles and wishes and the intervention of a deity, or a spell similar to but more powerful than reincarnate could do the job.
Certain artifacts can effect such a transformation.
Some demon lords can grant the half-demon template as a gift.
Etc.
Well it sounds like you've sold me on the Demons Revisited book then, thank you. I am gonna go buy it now, I think I can make some interesting role playing situations with it.
Will we be seeing a half-devil template James? Also, since we're getting a reformed Succubus (who apparently worships Desna) in the third installment of Wrath of the Righteous, we'll we be seeing stats for a reformed Erinyes as well? I'm very curious to see more demons, devils, and daemons who have risen to become good guys (and thus have some unique powers probably).
I know this is for the Devils Revisited (which I'm all for), but I'd just like to add that I want a celestials revisited because I want some deep thoughts on how to use them as antagonists. There are a lot of ways that the good guys can end up fighting each other - the celestials don't have to be confined to the summon/calling stat-block front.
As far as Devils revisited, I don't have the Demons one yet (forgot to renew my order after canceling to avoid the maps - always a pain twice a year), but hopefully it would have detailed ideas on the opposite of what I requested for celestials - how to deal with devils as allies.
Particularly on Golarion it would be helpful to know how the forces of law can work together. I love the Hellknight concept for player characters, and getting more ideas about how to work with Hell would be fantastic.
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Creative Director
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Will we be seeing a half-devil template James? Also, since we're getting a reformed Succubus (who apparently worships Desna) in the third installment of Wrath of the Righteous, we'll we be seeing stats for a reformed Erinyes as well? I'm very curious to see more demons, devils, and daemons who have risen to become good guys (and thus have some unique powers probably).
There are no plans to do half-devil templates, or to expand that further to other fiends. That's why I set up the text saying...
...demons in particular among the fiendish races are particularly and horrifically compatible with mortal humanoids.
That sets up the reason why, if we never do half-devil or other templates in the future, WHY we don't—demons are just more common.
That said... you can use the 10 examples of half-demons to build half-devils or whatever.
Again... a big reason "Demons Revisted" exists at all is because I wanted to write it... not because we're wanting to start up a new line of Fiend books.
I'd be more interested in "daemons revisited":)
That would indeed be really awesome :D
I'd be more interested in "daemons revisited":)That would indeed be really awesome :D
Pathfinderizing Ultroloths and Arcanoloths would make me a happy person, just saying.
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Creative Director
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Pathfinderizing Ultroloths and Arcanoloths would make me a happy person, just saying.I'd be more interested in "daemons revisited":)That would indeed be really awesome :D
Would also get us in trouble with WotC, since neither is open content, alas.
Is that why Paizo had to go with the daemons instead of drawing on any material concerning the Yugoloths in general? Or is there some yugoloth open content but just not enough to justify it?
Some of daemons could have been in Tome Of Horrors but I think the very name yugoloths and their backstory wasn't an open content.
I mourn closed-contentness of Arcanoloths and Ultroloths too...
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Is that why Paizo had to go with the daemons instead of drawing on any material concerning the Yugoloths in general? Or is there some yugoloth open content but just not enough to justify it?
It's mostly because what Todd Stewart did with daemons in 2 books is 1000 time more awesome than whatever TSR/WotC did with them over 200 books :)
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Is that why Paizo had to go with the daemons instead of drawing on any material concerning the Yugoloths in general? Or is there some yugoloth open content but just not enough to justify it?It's mostly because what Todd Stewart did with daemons in 2 books is 1000 time more awesome than whatever TSR/WotC did with them over 200 books :)
Not to disparage the almighty Shemeska, but TSR only needed one book.
Is that why Paizo had to go with the daemons instead of drawing on any material concerning the Yugoloths in general? Or is there some yugoloth open content but just not enough to justify it?It's mostly because what Todd Stewart did with daemons in 2 books is 1000 time more awesome than whatever TSR/WotC did with them over 200 books :)
Gorbacz, you're awesome. :)
On your comments alone, I should never worry that nobody likes the work I've done. But in all honesty, I can't help but compare my published work on NE fiends (both PF daemons and a little bit on WotC 'loths) to material done by others (McComb, Cook, Vallese, etc) and feel like I'm standing in a really big and well deserved shadow. I'm seriously inspired by their work and I owe them and their work a heck of a lot.
And 'Faces of Evil' is one of my favorite RPG supplements of all time. It's an amazing book.
*sigh* If only arcanoloths weren't closed content and we could get Todd to revamp them to Pathfinder...
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I understand that a demons revisited doesn't automatically imply a devils revisited is on the cards. However, if you were casting about for something to do, i wonder if Wes has some free time he hasn't yet committed to making awesome stuff.
Please register one vote in favour of using up his "spare" time.
Hate you guys... :P
*underlines this project on THE LIST*
Hate you guys... :PI understand that a demons revisited doesn't automatically imply a devils revisited is on the cards. However, if you were casting about for something to do, i wonder if Wes has some free time he hasn't yet committed to making awesome stuff.
Please register one vote in favour of using up his "spare" time.
Give in to the dark side!
*underlines this project on THE LIST*
Actually I'd like another Book Of The Damned instead, er, well, before Devils Revisited... Qlippths, Kytons or Rakshasa...
Sjusss Drejk, don't spoil our Devil's Revisited book!
Go Wesley! Yeah!
Also I really enjoy the 4 horseman-based Daemons so much.
Purrodaemon is really awesome in fluff and design, all those weapons sticking out of it!
The charon-like horseman of death minion called Thanodaemon is another one I really adore!
Meladaemons are my personal favorite of the bunch, they are just so creepy and feral and I really enjoy monsters of famine.
Leukodaemons remind me of the Marrash from D&D but much better, at first I was disappointed that the Marrash was closed content, but because of the much better Leukodaemon I forgot about the Marrash all together. I really LOVE the skull thing too!
So a Daemons revisited would be AWESOME as well!
My favorite Daemons:
1 - Meladaemon
2 - Leukodaemon
3 - Purrodaemon
4 - Thanodaemon
5 - Crucidaemon
6 - Sangudaemon
7 - Phasmadaemon
8 - Hydradaemon
9 - Astradaemon
10 - Derghodaemon
Erodaemon, Olethodaemon, Cacodaemon and Vulnudaemon are really awesome too, so really 10 is too few for deamons revisited! :p
I really dislike only the Piscodaemon and the Ceustodaemon, but i'm positive they must be in the book too bad, but maybe I start to like them after I read more about them. Ceustodaemon is gonna be hard because I really dislike them.
I'd prefer a Celestials Revisited book.
However, if that isn't an option, Devils Revisited it is.
Other options for me include Inevitables Revisited or Kytons Revisited.
I don't have anything with good and gentle creatures, so I probably would skip a Celestials Revisited book.
Agathions are pretty cool tho so I would probably think about buying such a book, but that is probably not gonna happen.
I understand that a demons revisited doesn't automatically imply a devils revisited is on the cards. However, if you were casting about for something to do, i wonder if Wes has some free time he hasn't yet committed to making awesome stuff.
Please register one vote in favour of using up his "spare" time.
Hate you guys... :P
I'll stop demanding more once you stop writing fantastic stuff. :)
Princes of Darkness was one of my all-time favorite sourcebooks.