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Interestingly, Gyr is a homage to Gary Gygax, the First DM. The guy who sat behind the DM's screen and controlled the fate of his world and the players...
I don't really see Gyr as a veiled master, specifically because he's a homage to Gygax (which meta-explains both his power, position, his Mordenkainen-like neutrality, and the fact that there's a rumor flying around suggesting he is "waiting for a new young hero to rise from Absalom’s lower ranks, to follow his path from student to adventurer to politician and finally primarch.")
He's too well known a figure, occupying a position of authority that has far too many eyes watching it to make it a comfortable fit for a veiled master. Also, the timeline doesn't fit: He put his childhood friend, Lord Aven of House Arnsen (an expy for D&D co-creator Dave Arnson) in charge of Diobel. So Lord Gyr's existence is established since at least childhood. He is described as spending years as a wandering adventurer, which explains his power level and success at taking over the city during its time of need. He's a native of Absalom and obviously had friends and family there, which explains how he knew it was time to return. He "used his own troops" to take over the city, which fits with high level characters having their own armies in older editions of D&D.
He came back right as House Thrune killed the old Primarch and was about to take control of the city. So he's got the hero thing going, but he's neutral now and that puts the future of Absalom in the hands of home-game adventurers who take part in the shadow war etc.
I really don't see anything about Lord Gyr that can't be easily handwaved away as "he's an expy of the beloved creator of the game we're all playing who plays an important role in the world but a minor role in the life of most adventurers."
Plus, the dude really seems to hate the Lumber Consortium and has put punishing tariffs in place specifically to mess with their business. I don't really see a veiled master in a position of authority where it could easily get away with forming an alliance with an evil organization going out of its way to punish said organization for being evil at no benefit to itself.
Publisher, Chief Creative Officer
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Gyr is probably - if he's a rogue - also a homage to Gord the Rogue, Gygax's fictional character.Just did a quick search of James' posts for "Lord Gyr".
It sounds like Gyr was originally meant to not be a rogue, but at this point he's a mythic rogue. I wonder how he got Mythic?
Interestingly, Gyr is a homage to Gary Gygax, the First DM. The guy who sat behind the DM's screen and controlled the fate of his world and the players...
Yes, that's a part of it. I was probably also unintentionally inspired by Nerof Gasgol, Lord Mayor of Greyhawk. Basically I wanted to make him an ex-adventurer modeled after Gygax. I think Owen Stephens came in later and added a Dave Arneson homage to the region as well.
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That's because the veiled masters are really an metaphor for Paizoan staff. Aboleths are very important in the lore of Golarion, just as Paizo staff are important to the game. They pull the strings of the fan-base, whipping them into an investigative frenzy with but nary a line here or there. Sometimes they hide behind sockpuppet accounts (I'm looking at you Mikaze), dispersing close but ultimately incorrect tidbits of lore meant to tease at what's going on behind the scenes.
We're on to you.
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That is the sound of my mind being blown.
I don't think Mengkara of Hermea is one. I think Pazio's intent with Hermea is it is more of a Utopia type place. Sure it looks perfect on the surface but if you look underneath it all there is a darkness. I think good intention pave the road to hell when I think of Hermea.
My theories for veil master are...
1) Alkenstar...increase tech...decrease magic. So when they do reaise again the people will be unprepare for the aboleth's magic.
2) Ruthazek...ok probably not. But they could have interesat...perhaps a slave race of intelligent apes might prove more useful than humans.
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The people knew the veiled masters as powerful wizards
This immediately made me think of the Runelords.
The veiled masters handled such suspicions by doing violence to the bodies and minds of those who proved too curious
I have not read the Shattered Star AP, so I could be all kinds of wrong, but I think this may have been what happened to Xin somewhere along the way.
But then why limit ourselves to the Inner Sea ? I find that there is a lot of material on the other side of the world.
Imagine you are a secret master race manipulating your human slaves. Imagine that you know that Earthfall is coming (since you are the ones engineering it).
Excerpts from the Dragon Empires Gazeteer
–1794 Humanity finally begins to rebuild throughout Golarion. In Tian Xia, humanity rises with shocking speed, although it will be nearly 2,000 years before the first human empire is founded.
And if you like being the power behind the throne, manipulating puppet sovereigns for ages, but do not like your pet humans worshipping gods, what better place than this :
Po Li
Or maybe you would prefer this place :
Bachuan
And I would propose Grandmother Pei as a Veiled Master.
While I'm not a fan of Mengkare being evil (I strongly prefer the lawful good), it is to bad that conspiracy theorists are set back a notch. :)
Do you really believe your paltry attempts at realism will make us even miss a beat ?
How do you recognize one magic-wielding shapechanger (a Gold Dragon) from another (a Veiled Master) ?
The answer is you can't.
Unless Mengkare spends a lot of time among his subjects in Gold Dragon shape, the impersonation is very easy to maintain.
Hermea always makes me think of the movie Gattaca. Perfection really is inhuman.
You know the best way to hide a conspiracy?
You set it inside an alternative and competing conspiracy.
Unofficially, the Red Mantis have built relationships in almost every government, royal court, church, guild, and merchant house in Avistan or Garund. Very little takes place in the halls of power and wealth that the Red Mantis is not aware of, a fact that is not lost on the same governments and groups that might otherwise wish to eradicate the assassin cult.That's where I would want to infiltrate, because the mystery and the infrastructure of the Red Mantis is self-sustaining. The information flows to you naturally, just as every expects it will. You know there's a secret there, but you're predisposed to look for the wrong secret.
Plus the Mantis habit of accepting or declining any mission without cause? And setting their own, sometimes unconditional price, which may in of itself be another manipulation? If anything, when humans are desperate to kill someone in power, its a blip on the radar to be aware of...
Also of interests are the following facts :
- The magic of the Red Mantis Assassin PrC is arcane (and CHA-based, just like a Sorcerer) and not divine, which is more than strange seeing how they seem to be a bunch of Assassin-God worshipping zealots in all other ways.
- Their "God" is not a real god, though he has supposedly been created by such.
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I can only, ONLY hear this in Harbinger's voice.
The black raven,
Gattaca was a really great, if flawed, movie. I loved it and am glad someone else watched it. :)
The problem with fingering Mengkare as a Veiled Master specifically, is that there is no particular difference if he's a Veiled Master or literally any other powerful spell-casting creature, because the Veiled Master's Change Shape abilities specify small or medium size only (and Mengkare is at least gargantuan and probably colossal). Which was the sum total of my point: it no longer matters as much if Mengkare is really some sort of illusion or transmutation effect, because, frankly, anyone of that power level could do it just as well.
I'm not fully brushed up on my PF dopplegangers, but I vaguely recall that the "greater" versions use greater polymorph, but I don't remember if they are still limited to more-or-less humanoid style forms or not.
In any event, it doesn't matter: a dopplganger, rakshasa, succubus, and 19th level human wizard with the immortal discovery would all be just as likely, now. The MO does lean slightly more toward Abolithic elements (with the "uplifting" of humans), but unlike before, there's no longer a solid "this creature is perfect for this role" built-in ability (there never was, but we kind of were all presuming that it was using its Change Shape ability).
It most certainly could be a Veiled Master, but if it's anything other than a Gold Dragon, there are still any number of other creatures that could hold that position.
As far as the Red Mantis... it's possible, but it doesn't really fit with the Aboleths, I don't think. Achaekek () himself existed before Earthfall (and was worshiped more as a god of blood and monsters), and the fact that there's a religion based around a specific, named god just doesn't seem to fit with the Abolithic MO (who don't "get" faith, according to Mr. Jacobs). It seems more likely they'd allow themselves to be worshiped as vague and mysterious "gods".
I love the Tian Xia ideas, however. :)
John Ketzer,
Ruthazek I know for a fact is not a Veiled Master. The Gorilla King, in fact, can't be, due to the way they are created/chosen (although one could attempt to "fake" it). Demon lords with artifacts at their call are a bit tricky that way.
Alkenstar is an interesting possibility.
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Though, it wasn't clear, I proposed the Mayor of Ilizamagorti, not the entire organization. They might well think its a doppelgänger. Makes a great cover story. :)
Though, it wasn't clear, I proposed the Mayor of Ilizamagorti, not the entire organization. They might well think its a doppelgänger. Makes a great cover story. :)
This I got and entirely approve of. :)
Contributor
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Hey! some of us are hardworking Rakshasa. Fish are tasty, once you wash the mucus off. And I smell fishes! Fishies!
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White Estrid.
Now hear me out...
Nah, but mostly cause I think WE is too kickass a female human to owe her awesomeness to being a veiled master in disguise.
Boiltongue, however, could be the veiled master as a whispering advisor/power-behind-the-throne. Bonus points to White Estrid if she knows and still struck the deal anyway.
Ambrosia: I like your point there. Boiltongue - based on size, as Linnorms are really big - has the same problems as Mengkare, but it's still a nifty idea, for sure.
EDIT: for reclaiming missed opportunities:
Hey! some of us are hardworking Rakshasa. Fish are tasty, once you wash the mucus off. And I smell fishes! Fishies!
Workin' hard, or hardly workin', eh mac?! Amirite?! Amirite?! Yeah! Haheh... hooooooooo... heh.
()
Ambrosia: I like your point there. Boiltongue - based on size, as Linnorms are really big - has the same problems as Mengkare, but it's still a nifty idea, for sure.
For high CR critters like veiled masters, I'm not convinced its that out of line for them to have a feat tree or alternate racial abilities to mimic a linnorm's or dragon's physical appearance, especially a Huge not-fully-grown specimen. Do we have any official confirmation on Boiltongue's size? It's mentioned (or at least illustrated) as sitting behind Estrid's throne, so maybe it hasn't reached Colossal size yet (or maybe the court/throne room is just that dang big). And would there be enough surviving hunters of linnorms who could figure out Boiltongue isn't a real ice linnorm from observation alone?
Edit: Or what's to stop Boiltongue from being one of Mengkare's offspring, especially with a feat or two to mimic the icy breath weapon?
So no one else suspects the Black Sovereign of Numeria? Must be cause of his sexual habits, but what if he's from the Loving Place (Aucturn) ...
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John Ketzer,
Ruthazek I know for a fact is not a Veiled Master. The Gorilla King, in fact, can't be, due to the way they are created/chosen (although one could attempt to "fake" it). Demon lords with artifacts at their call are a bit tricky that way.
Alkenstar is an interesting possibility.
True on Ruthazek...though a high place advisor or such in the goverment could be interesting.
Ambrosia: I like your point there. Boiltongue - based on size, as Linnorms are really big - has the same problems as Mengkare, but it's still a nifty idea, for sure.For high CR critters like veiled masters, I'm not convinced its that out of line for them to have a feat tree or alternate racial abilities to mimic a linnorm's or dragon's physical appearance, especially a Huge not-fully-grown specimen. Do we have any official confirmation on Boiltongue's size? It's mentioned (or at least illustrated) as sitting behind Estrid's throne, so maybe it hasn't reached Colossal size yet (or maybe the court/throne room is just that dang big). And would there be enough surviving hunters of linnorms who could figure out Boiltongue isn't a real ice linnorm from observation alone?
Edit: Or what's to stop Boiltongue from being one of Mengkare's offspring, especially with a feat or two to mimic the icy breath weapon?
I'd be super happy if an official Paizo-line of feats like those came out (or even a 3rd Party that Paizo uses, as it does sometimes), but as it currently stands there's nothing like that... thus the limited speculation that can be done. Otherwise, again, you might as well go, "so can any other high level caster" and be done with it.
Here's the deal with colossal size: even if it's young enough (say, it has the young template) to be smaller, it'd still be gargantuan. That's three size categories difference. That's akin to something like (going on pure speculation) two to three additional feats, or ranging from four to six levels. That's... a lot of effort to perform a single trick, useful as it may be. Still, I'm not throwing it out as beyond the realm of possibility, only that there's really no basis for such speculation as things currently stand. For all we know it could just as easily actually be a linnorm with phenomenal cosmic powers and/or a weakness for human women, because there's nothing to indicate otherwise. Or a genie. Or a 500 HD commoner with a peculiarly cursed ring. :)
In any event, it's a very interesting idea, it's just not currently supported as "the probable" idea.
The idea that Boiltongue might be related to Mengkare is really interesting-sounding. Does anything in the lore make you guess that, or is it just pure speculation?
I'd be super happy if an official Paizo-line of feats like those came out (or even a 3rd Party that Paizo uses, as it does sometimes), but as it currently stands there's nothing like that...
Yeah, nothing yet from Paizo, although I'm lacking Rite's (and many other 3pps') monster books, so there may be a feat/feat tree or template(s) in there to deal with it. WotC's Draconomicon had feats allowing a dragon to admix in other types of elemental attack, eventually giving the dragon the options of using their racial default, a mix, or something else entirely. They also had a feat to change shape into humanoids, unless I'm misremembering.
...thus the limited speculation that can be done. Otherwise, again, you might as well go, "so can any other high level caster" and be done with it...
As GM, I used to remind players that there's alot of things a critter can do that a PC can't. And that alone doesn't make the critter unbalanced, or the PC underpowered. Critters function as an obstacle/challenge for the PCs to overcome. As long as I keep the encounters balanced and game entertaining, I'm not worried too much about swapping out a few monster abilities for similarly-powered ones that bring something better.
Here's the deal with colossal size: even if it's young enough (say, it has the young template) to be smaller, it'd still be gargantuan. That's three size categories difference. That's akin to something like (going on pure speculation) two to three additional feats, or ranging from four to six levels. That's... a lot of effort to perform a single trick, useful as it may be. Still, I'm not throwing it out as beyond the realm of possibility, only that there's really no basis for such speculation as things currently stand. For all we know it could just as easily actually be a linnorm with phenomenal cosmic powers and/or a weakness for human women, because there's nothing to indicate otherwise. Or a genie. Or a 500 HD commoner with a peculiarly cursed ring. :)
In any event, it's a very interesting idea, it's just not currently supported as "the probable" idea.
If it's just a change in appearance and doesn't change the veiled master's HD, hit points, AC, attributes, number of attacks/damage per attack, etc., I can't see it's that much of a problem. In the past, the PCs often figure out "Hey, why isn't it hitting me with Ability X?", "Why isn't it dispelling my buff/defense?", or "How am I hitting it without Power Attack?" as clues that maybe they aren't dealing with the real deal, or at least not a very typical one. SKR had a thread or two about re-skinning critters into something new floating around here somewhere. And again, if I keep it balanced and not completely surprising, I don't see a problem tweaking individual critter specimens to serve the adventure/plot.
But if the PC's expect the red dragon to be wielding Chekhov's flame thrower, I usually don't swap it out for Chekhov's AR-15 without dropping some hints. Or at least some nudges that they might be dealing with more than a by-the-Bestiary red dragon.
The idea that Boiltongue might be related to Mengkare is really interesting-sounding. Does anything in the lore make you guess that, or is it just pure speculation?
Pure slaadi speculation. If Boiltongue isn't an ice linnorm, what other critters could pull off the ruse? And what's their hypothetical motivation?
You've got white and silver dragons (motivations varying from considering themselves the "actual" rulers with White Estrid as their puppet to trying to improve the Lands of the Linnorm Kings from within - bonus points if WE looks like she does because she's related) who have cold breath weapons, to powerful illusionists-or-transmuters with particular feat-or-item and spell selections (whose motivations vary as much as they do) to other similar creatures. Kind of pressed for time, and this is a bit off topic, so I'll drop it for now, but those are just a few thoughts.
So. Veiled Masters. :)
That's because the veiled masters are really an metaphor for Paizoan staff. Aboleths are very important in the lore of Golarion, just as Paizo staff are important to the game. They pull the strings of the fan-base, whipping them into an investigative frenzy with but nary a line here or there. Sometimes they hide behind sockpuppet accounts (I'm looking at you Mikaze), dispersing close but ultimately incorrect tidbits of lore meant to tease at what's going on behind the scenes.
We're on to you.
So Paizo's staff is Lawful Evil?
So Paizo's staff is Lawful Evil?That's because the veiled masters are really an metaphor for Paizoan staff. Aboleths are very important in the lore of Golarion, just as Paizo staff are important to the game. They pull the strings of the fan-base, whipping them into an investigative frenzy with but nary a line here or there. Sometimes they hide behind sockpuppet accounts (I'm looking at you Mikaze), dispersing close but ultimately incorrect tidbits of lore meant to tease at what's going on behind the scenes.
We're on to you.
Have you seen the product lines lately? ;)
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Anyone mention Artokus Kirran yet? (inventor of the Sun Orchid Elixir)
The guy figures out how to make normal people effectively immortal then vanishes into a vault where the only outside contact he has is with "blind, mute servants" who deliver the six vials of the elixir that no one else in Golarion appears to be able to replicate.
Unless it's not actually an elixir and is an alchemical variant of the aboleth mucous... if the only way to make it is to be an aboleth strung out on Sun Orchid juice, that would explain why nobody else has figured it out.-TimD
This was my number one suspect as well.
He might be a little too obviously inhuman and suspicious and working-his-way-to-indispensible to be a Veiled Master, actually.
Back when the Kalistocracy was not friendly to religions (in the original Campaign Setting), someone pulling the strings of High Prophet Kelldor would have been an obvious choice as well, but now that they are tied to the church of Abadar in the new Inner Sea World Guide, not so much. The dietary and sexual restrictions (to keep them addicted to aboleth-created drugs and food additives and to help 'breed a better class of servant') combined with the very specific dress (including gloves, to hide whatever physical side-effects are occuring, such as a slimy coating to the skin...) made the original version very compatible with aboleth influence, particularly with their nation centered around a somewhat mysterious lake... On the other hand, if the Veiled Master is all that and a wedge of cheese, perhaps he's managed to fool a branch of the church of Abadar to work alongside his own flock, for whatever reason. Seems like a dangerous game to play, 'though.
Keeping organized churchces out of one's zone of influence seems wiser, long-term, which makes Rahadoum and Razmiran and Hermea (and Touvette, in the River Kingdoms, which is pretty small fry for a Veiled Master, but everyone has to start somewhere...) better choices for such infiltrations.
[tangent] I also prefer that Hermea remain non-evil and Mengkare be quite possibly still Lawful and Good by nature (and since Dragons of Golarion is pretty clear on gold dragons policing their own when they slide, Hermea is either littered with the corpses of Gold Dragons who failed to steer Mengkare away from evil-doin' or Mengkare, whose location isn't exactly a huge secret to other gold dragons, isn't doin' anything his fellow golds consider evil). It perhaps takes a little bit more than wanting to create a better world, and inviting some like-minded people to join you in such an attempt, to ping on the evil-dar, I guess. [/tangent]
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Interestingly, Gyr is a homage to Gary Gygax, the First DM. The guy who sat behind the DM's screen and controlled the fate of his world and the players...I don't really see Gyr as a veiled master, specifically because he's a homage to Gygax (which meta-explains both his power, position, his Mordenkainen-like neutrality, and the fact that there's a rumor flying around suggesting he is "waiting for a new young hero to rise from Absalom’s lower ranks, to follow his path from student to adventurer to politician and finally primarch.")...
Yep, making Gary an aboleth just seems like ruiing a tribute to the great man.
I dunno. I think the guy would be all over it (and love the concept, to boot). Look at how he handled Zagyg...
I'll admit that I never heard of Lord Gyr before this thread, so I didn't do too much research on him :)
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Zagyg is exactly what I was thinking ;)
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Lord Hazic Kel-Kalaar (ruler of the Katapeshi city of Solku)
Kel-Kalaar bought a house in Solku and set to work constructing a research lab to further his arcane studies. He had lived in Solku barely a year when when the gnolls attacked in the Siege of Solku...
Once the siege ended, Kel-Kalaar stated his desire to take the place of Solku's slain leader. The people supported his bid...
...Despite his gregarious nature, Kel-Kalaar remains reticent about his personal life. He has few friends and no family to speak of...
... Kel-Kalaar prefers taking a long term view and makes decisions slowly after considerable thought.
Suspicion: It is no coincidence that the gnolls attacked so shortly after Kel-Kalaar set up shop in Solku. Tricking or dominated the gnoll leaders, the veiled master known as Kel-Kalaar turned the gnoll horde upon the city to see its former leader slain and to become the city's savior.
Kel-Kalaar's motives are two-fold. First, he seeks the lost arcane might of many ancient nearby sites, such as the nearby Lightning Stones- the likes of which he hopes may be turned into a weapon of such magnitude not seen since the days of Earthfall. Second, he hopes in the long run to wrestle the pesh trade out from the Pact Masters, a group of outsiders he sees as competition for domination over the human race. In the hands of the aboleth, pesh could be used on a much greater level to subjugate the human race into stupefied complacency, or so Kel-Kalaar hopes.
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Citizen Margaery San Trayne (creator of Galt's Final Blades)
Citizen Margaery San Trayne was the architect of these mystical blades; she called for a tool that would bring a "swift and humane end, offering no escape through the magics of resurrection- and furthermore keeping even the vilest Galtan soul from falling into the clutches of a Chelish devil
Suspicion: Although belief in this theory is enough to be put to the Blades themselves, there is a reason why a soul claimed by these blades won't fall into the clutches of Chelish devils. It's because the Final Blades were designed by aboleths "hands", as it were. Nothing that traps a soul in it for all eternity could truly be classified as "humane". No, I say, this is but the foulest of screeds! The Final Blades are but a ploy to gather souls for some horrible, unknowable end!
Citizen Margaery San Trayne is also one of the few of the revolutionary architects we never hear about facing execution or exile. Coincidence? I think not!
Furthermore, my friends, you only need look upon the darkness of the Gray Gardeners! They have rituals to draw out the captured souls in the Final Blades, but only THEY know to what illicit purposes these souls are used. And don't you think it's odd that Litran, headquarters of the Gray Gardeners, is one of the few places in Galt where order and stability (aspects of the LAWFUL mentality of the aboleth) flourish?
Razmir. Definitely.
Razmir is a frightened old athiest who knows the fate that awaits him in the Boneyard. Perhaps a veiled master is helping him survive, but he himself is all too human.
THE WHOLE SHADOW LODGE WAS JUST A PUT ON!
Not even Hitchcock knew!
Eminence Front!
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In this thread Jim Groves lost his entire mind..
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Hey! hey!
I checked snopes.com before posting!
Torch being a psychic tuna wasn't in there! So, it's got to be true.
And if we're all done laughing...
It would be pretty twisted and smart if it were true. The Society is an international organization dedicated to gathering and assembling lost knowledge and secrets. The Shadow Lodge divided and distracted them. Yet Torch remained part of the organization, and even now remains as an associated information broker. Still in the picture, but faded in the background after a significant tumult.
Laugh all you want. :D
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In this thread Jim Groves lost his entire mind..
I think, perhaps, his mind was... affected by something...
(Either that, or, to [mis-]quote a Bard, perhaps he's "crazy like a fox"...)
Maybe the entire Paizo staff are Veiled Masters...?
(Mind. Blown.)
My question would be what happens when a disguised Veiled Master encounters a disguised Intellect Devourer? Do they get together and have a carafe of Midnight Milk at the local bar? Do they immediately fight it out via dominated proxies? I wonder how much the two species know about each other...
Also, I have to wonder if there are any Veiled Masters with Intellect Devourers riding around in them.. Plots within plots, as they say?
My candidates for a secret Veiled master would be-
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In this thread Jim Groves lost his entire mind..I think, perhaps, his mind was... affected by something...
(Either that, or, to [mis-]quote a Bard, perhaps he's "crazy like a fox"...)
'Both' is an option, you know!
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Norgorber , deity of thievery and assassination
Norgorber's past before he ascended into godhood through the Test of the Starstone in 1893 AR is unknown. His followers go to great lengths to keep it a secret. Some believe that if the origin of the god became known, the god himself would become undone...
A deceptive deity, he has been known to aid those who do not support his ideals as long as the benefit is mutual to his own ends...
The cult is split into four parts, each one focusing on a specific aspect and paying little attention to others.
Suspicion It is no coincidence that there are rumors of how fatal it would be to the Reaper of Reputations if his true origin was known. Because he has accomplished the utmost taboo (for an aboleth), not consorted with gods but actually become one himself. While in the guise of a mortal, Norgorber passed the Test of the Starstone. In a sense, he is the ultimate Veiled Master, for none of his race (rbrn the unknown masters of the race supposedly above the Veiled Masters) known of his ascension.
However, his position is tenuous. For if the rest of the race were find out, they would jealously pool their psychic powers together and strike him down.
Evidence for Norgorber's ascension can be seen in his behavior (stealth, the use of masks and veils, even indirect manipulation to get what he wants by proxy). That there are four main branches of his cult is no coincidence, for the number four is important to all aboleth. It is the number of tentacles they have. And Norgorber's cult is nothing if not his figurative tentacles to transform mortals into his pawns and servants, much like how the slime from the aboleth tentacles transform its victims into skum.
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Oh. Boy.
Norgorber , deity of thievery and assassination
This amuses me greatly, and I would be quite pleased if it were true.
Of course, given the very nature of the subject and theory, we never will know, until it's too late.
Some of these suggestions make me wonder if some of these people, if they are indeed aboleths-in-disguise, don't know that they are and are behaving according to some more subliminal preparation. Brainwash themselves, remove any obvious knowledge of their mission, but have their actions guided by an underlying hypnotic suggestion or something like that.
Tyler Durden is a veiled master.
Mengkare is too public to actually be a veiled master, though his experiments at Hermea are clearly crooked. I could see him being manipulated by the aboleths (lord knows they'd love to continue to shape the growth of their favorite creations). What is more terrifying, tragic, and dangerous than a genuinely good creature being controlled by a vile puppeteer?
Norgorber is an interesting idea. Nothing trivializes the divinity of the gods than a veiled master becoming one himself. A atheistic deity. What irony? Just as some qlippoth become demon lords, forsaking their former lives, perhaps Norgorber likewise transformer? Though, just as Dagon and Cyth-V'sug are no longer considered qlippoth, Norgorber would no longer be an aboleth in any real way.
What about Countess Llrilatha, Queen Abrogail II's adviser. Supposedly an erinyes sent by Asmodeus to instruct the Queen. How hard would it be for a veiled master to mimic an erinyes's abilities? How badly would they want to control an empire like Cheliax?
The problem with all of the above suggestions.... they're too bloody obvious. A veiled master is more likely to be a nameless servant, or even a janitor, someone whom you're likely to forget as soon as you lay eyes off them... like the Silence.
Veiled Masters have mental powers they don't need to be these figures just someone who comes in contact with the right people every now and then.
As much as I like sensation "oooh" suggestions, there is a certain amount of good common sense to this.
The best place for a veiled master is close to the seat of power, but not necessarily the focus of it.
There are probably veiled masters lurking around places that have never been fully introduced or developed yet, like powerful drow cities.