So im playing a ranged inquisitor, so I'm trying to decide which is better.
The composite longbow gives me 1d8+2 points of damage with a x3 crit.
But the crossbow seems better when i use my judgment.
the only problem is the lack of Rapid shot with the Repeating crossbow, Which is something I would like to use.
with 15 Strength, what is better?
Bow
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A repeating crossbow allows you to fire up to 5 bolts while reloading as a free action. Inquisitors only get 3 attacks. Even with Haste you can still utilize Rapid Shot.
The biggest problem is the fact that crossbows actually take a couple feats just to be as mechanically good as abow, while still requiring most of the same archery feats. You're probably better off going bow, unless you want to build up to a Double Crossbow wielding Vital Striking single shot sniper-type build.
Why are you making this decision? New character? New magic item?
Just like the idea of a repeating crossbow. but my character is still lvl 1 so i got some time to think.
But if Crosssbow is as feat intensive as you say, Maybe i wont.
Because i would like to use some feats for extra bane or improved judgement
This is what I feel is silly about the repeating crossbows. Spending a feat on Exotic Weapon Proficiency with a repeating crossbow is silly when you could just take Rapid Reload and grab a regular, less expensive, easier to find light crossbow.
Do you suppose it would do any harm to make them simple weapons?
Comp bows also add str to damage.
Inquisitors are proficient in repeating crossbows...
Normally, I'd say go with repeating crossbow because with composite, you'd be MAD going STR, DEX, and spellcasting. But with 15 strength, composite sounds like a better idea to me.
What I'd like to know is whether there are any circumstances in which a crossbow is better than a longbow. The only one I can think of is on a character who dumped strength.
Well a Crossbow with Improved Critical and Aspect of the Falcon is 17-20 3x. That's one good advantage. Still has the issue of adding stuff to damage(Inquisitor and Paladin would be good bets to shore that up). There's also a 3 level long class that adds CHA to damage with Crossbows.
Normally the standard Crossbow is more feat-intensive - you need Rapid Shot and other feats to get your full attack once you get a +5 BAB. The only exception to this is the hand crossbow, but the damage is so minute (d4), that the weapon is useless for a non-rogue.
However...
Repeating Crossbow
Load: As long as it holds bolts, you can reload it by pulling the reloading lever (a free action). Loading a new case of 5 bolts is a full-round action that provokes attacks of opportunity.
So, at lvl 1, you can shoot for 5 rounds without reloading and then take a full action to reload it if you want. The Rapid Reload feat would reduce the time to load a new set of 5 bolts. Or, if you don't want to waste the full action you could do something else - like cast a spell or go into melee. But, in my experience, combats rarely go beyond 5 rounds (especially at lvl 1) so chances are that the 5 bolts would last you the entire combat and you can reload in-between encounters.
Keep in mind that the Inquisitor has a 3/4 BAB so at level 20, they would only get 3 attacks per round. With the 5 bolt cartridge of the repeating crossbow, you’re going to have enough ammo to last you two rounds. Even with Many Shot and Rapid Shot thrown into the mix, you would have enough bolts to get a full attack for one round. But, by this point, the game is basically “whoever shoots first wins” and a full second round is extremely rare.
Furthermore, the Inquisitor is not proficient with bows (as they are a martial weapon) so you would have to waste a feat anyways to get the proficiency…the same feat cost as getting Rapid Shot for the crossbow.
And then there is the style factor of the repeating crossbow. Personally, I say to play the inquisitor with style – go for the Repeating Crossbow.
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What I'd like to know is whether there are any circumstances in which a crossbow is better than a longbow. The only one I can think of is on a character who dumped strength.
I put together a Crossbowman character who specialized in making single, massive attacks with the Double Crossbow utilizing the Vital Strike chain and Kirin Strike, and that's one way to get into something resembling the same ballpark as a standard bow archer. Inquisitor's can get a reasonable leg up with a repeating crossbow by focusing on buffing spells to compensate for their limited feat selection, and they might be comparable to archers from other classes, but those exact same buffs will work just as well if they're using a bow, plus they'll get at least two feats back (Rapid Reload and Crossbow Mastery)... Or at least one I guess since they may have to take a feat to use a longbow (assuming they don't just grab a trait like Heirloom Weapon or pick a race that gets the Longbow for free, like an elf).
The crossbow is generally just not on the same level as a longbow. It tends to fit better either for flavor or unique builds.
Furthermore, the Inquisitor is not proficient with bows (as they are a martial weapon) so you would have to waste a feat anyways to get the proficiency…the same feat cost as getting Rapid Shot for the crossbow.
In point of fact:
An inquisitor is proficient with all simple weapons, plus the hand crossbow, longbow, repeating crossbow, shortbow, and the favored weapon of her deity.
So from the sound of it, Crossbow requires more feats to use more effectivly. Such as Rapid Reload and Combat mastery.
Taking away things like i want which is extra bane and extra Judgment.
Furthermore, the Inquisitor is not proficient with bows (as they are a martial weapon) so you would have to waste a feat anyways to get the proficiency…the same feat cost as getting Rapid Shot for the crossbow.In point of fact:
An inquisitor is proficient with all simple weapons, plus the hand crossbow, longbow, repeating crossbow, shortbow, and the favored weapon of her deity.
Indeed. I must have skipped over the longbow. My bad.
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So from the sound of it, Crossbow requires more feats to use more effectivly. Such as Rapid Reload and Combat mastery.
Taking away things like i want which is extra bane and extra Judgment.
Unfortunately, pretty much. You basically need two extra feats just to get a crossbow firing attacks as consistently as a longbow. The only benefit really is that you (potentially) have a slightly larger die size (d10 over a d8). Not sure that it's really worth 2 feats...
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My Crossbow Inquisitor is fun, but he'd be mechanically better as a Longbow Inquisitor. That isn't stopping me, though. The rule of cool makes up for any lost DPR. :)
I play a gritty old Crossbowman Fighter who's one of my favorite characters. I love playing him too, because even though he's actually got some of the worst dpr of our non-caster characters, the cool factor and stupid high single attack damage seem to make just as much of an impression on the party as the TWFing Mobile Fighter and his Winged Boots.
We also had a gnome Inquisitor in our Skulls and Shackles campaign with a Repeating Crossbow he named "Bertha"...
So:
Mechanically, longbow wins. But for flavor? Gotta rock the crossbow.
The big differences between a crossbow and a bow:
-A xbow cannot use manyshot (unless your DM rules otherwise).
-A xbow cannot add strength to the damage.
-A xbow costs more feats to do the same thing.
-A xbow has a 19-20 crit range, a bow x3.
-A xbow is simple, a bow martial.
-A class that has access to martial weapons and enough gold to get a bow, should get a bow.
Basically D&D and PF favor bows. You can make xbows work. A fighter who goes for ranged+xbow feats works just fine, but on average will be outdamaged because the bow gets to add STR and to use manyshot.
Ill think about it.
I kinda like the idea of a crossbow wielding Inquisitor laughing manically while unleashing a torrent of bolts.
Longbow would be better on your character as you have a good str score. It takes up less feats and you can start with Point Blank Shot and Rapid shot at level 1 if you're a human.
Personally, I kind of burnt out on bows after building a 4 armed archer that used TWF with longbows. I want to build a TWF light repeating crossbow crit-fisher. Probably use the same 4 levels alch, X levels fighter, that I used for the archer, but now I`m just rambling.
Those are my two coppers.
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My Crossbow Inquisitor is fun, but he'd be mechanically better as a Longbow Inquisitor. That isn't stopping me, though. The rule of cool makes up for any lost DPR. :)I play a gritty old Crossbowman Fighter who's one of my favorite characters. I love playing him too, because even though he's actually got some of the worst dpr of our non-caster characters, the cool factor and stupid high single attack damage seem to make just as much of an impression on the party as the TWFing Mobile Fighter and his Winged Boots.
We also had a gnome Inquisitor in our Skulls and Shackles campaign with a Repeating Crossbow he named "Bertha"...
So:
Mechanically, longbow wins. But for flavor? Gotta rock the crossbow.
Hell yeah. I'm going to be taking Rapid Reload (Light Crossbow) and Crossbow Mastery so that I can use my Repeating Crossbow most of the time, and I will not regret a moment of it, because awesome.
(He's a Chelaxian with a nigh impenetrable faux-British accent and a very JUDGE DREDD outlook. He's so much fun.)
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So:
Mechanically, longbow wins. But for flavor? Gotta rock the crossbow.Hell yeah. I'm going to be taking Rapid Reload (Light Crossbow) and Crossbow Mastery so that I can use my Repeating Crossbow most of the time, and I will not regret a moment of it, because awesome.
(He's a Chelaxian with a nigh impenetrable faux-British accent and a very JUDGE DREDD outlook. He's so much fun.)
Here's my Crossbowman build. There's been some back and forth about how Vital Strike interacts with a Double Crossbow, so take that for what it's worth, but....
Crossbowman
STR 10 DEX 19 (+2 Human, +1 level) CON 10 INT 18(+2 level) WIS 10 CHA 10
1st: Point Blank Shot, Precise Shot, Rapid Reload
2nd:Rapid Shot
3rd:Crossbow Mastery
4th:Exotic Weapon Proficiency Double Crossbow
(Master of Many Styles) 5th: Kirin Style, Kirin Strike
6th: Vital Strike
7th:Weapon Focus (Double Crossbow)
8th: Weapon Specialization (Double Crossbow)
9th: Devastating Strike
10th: Quickdraw
11th: Improved Vital Strike
12th:Greater Weapon Specialization (Double Crossbow)
That'll give you a base damage of 6d8 (Assuming Vital Strike applies to both bolts since a Double Crossbow essentially works just like a standard attack action Manyshot, otherwise 4d8) + 5 (DEX) + 8(Double INT) + 4(Greater Weapon Specialization) + 8 (Devastating Strike) + 4 (Crossbow Expert), or 77 max damage before crit, 35 minimum damage, 53 average damage with the ol' Double Crossbow. All of that before stat boosting items and weapon enhancements. He also has fairly sick skills thanks to the boosted INT and being human.
He really isn't doing any more (or even as much) damage as other characters at a similar level, but slap that build onto a gritty old cigar smoking veteran with a thick Southern accent, and he just looks cool doing it.
Unfortunately, pretty much. You basically need two extra feats just to get a crossbow firing attacks as consistently as a longbow. The only benefit really is that you (potentially) have a slightly larger die size (d10 over a d8). Not sure that it's really worth 2 feats...So from the sound of it, Crossbow requires more feats to use more effectivly. Such as Rapid Reload and Combat mastery.
Taking away things like i want which is extra bane and extra Judgment.
Not true.
Here’s the thing. Normally, you’d always go Comp LB. BUT, Inquisitor gets Repeating CB prof for free.
Now, with Repeating Crossbow , you don’t need Rapid Reload , and STR 15 is unnecessary.
What is “Combat mastery”? Are we talking Crossbow Mastery? Again, other than the prot vs AoO, you don’t; need that either.
Just the usual- PB, Precise, Rapid, just like any other archer. And, you can dump STR back down to 11.
Go for Repeating CB . It's fun.
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Here’s the thing. Normally, you’d always go Comp LB. BUT, Inquisitor gets Repeating CB prof for free.
Now, with Repeating Crossbow , you don’t need Rapid Reload , and STR 15 is unnecessary.
What is “Combat mastery”? Are we talking Crossbow Mastery? Again, other than the prot vs AoO, you don’t; need that either.
Just the usual- PB, Precise, Rapid, just like any other archer. And, you can dump STR back down to 11.
Go for Repeating CB . It's fun.
It's fun; right up until you need to reload the sucker and lose a whole round doing it. At level one, that's no biggie; at level 8 when you can basically empty the clip in one round it's a pain in the butt, especially since the average combat is going to be all but done while you're spending the entire second round loading the next cartridge of bolts. You are halving the number of attacks you put out each encounter compared to an archer using a longbow or shortbow (more than halving it once Snap Shot becomes an option) if you don't take Rapid Reload and Crossbow Mastery.
But neither of those feats decrease the time spent loading a repeating CB. And at level 8 you can’t normally get off more than 3 shots, even with Rapid Shot.
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Crossbow Mastery makes reloading a Repeating Crossbow a free action.
Crossbow Mastery (Combat)
You can load crossbows with blinding speed and even fire them in melee with little fear of reprisal.
Prerequisites: Dex 15, Point-Blank Shot, Rapid Reload, Rapid Shot.
Benefit: The time required for you to reload any type of crossbow is reduced to a free action, regardless of the type of crossbow used. You can fire a crossbow as many times in a full attack action as you could attack if you were using a bow. Reloading a crossbow for the type of crossbow you chose when you took Rapid Reload no longer provokes attacks of opportunity.
Special: Starting at 6th level, a ranger with the archery combat style may select Crossbow Mastery as a combat style feat.
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But neither of those feats decrease the time spent loading a repeating CB. And at level 8 you can’t normally get off more than 3 shots, even with Rapid Shot.
Haste or Speed are pretty much a given by 8th level, which puts most archers at 4 attacks. Likely more for standard bow users. And yes, Crossbow Mastery reduces the time it takes to reload a repeating crossbow to a free action.
"Crossbow Mastery (Combat)
You can load crossbows with blinding speed and even fire them in melee with little fear of reprisal.
Prerequisites: Dex 15, Point-Blank Shot, Rapid Reload, Rapid Shot.
Benefit: The time required for you to reload any type of crossbow is reduced to a free action, regardless of the type of crossbow used. You can fire a crossbow as many times in a full attack action as you could attack if you were using a bow. Reloading a crossbow for the type of crossbow you chose when you took Rapid Reload no longer provokes attacks of opportunity.
Special: Starting at 6th level, a ranger with the archery combat style may select Crossbow Mastery as a combat style feat."
Except that reloading a repeating CB is already a free action. “ As long as it holds bolts, you can reload it by pulling the reloading lever (a free action).”
Or are you talking about the case?
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Except that reloading a repeating CB is already a free action. “ As long as it holds bolts, you can reload it by pulling the reloading lever (a free action).”
Or are you talking about the case?
The time required to reload any type of crossbow is reduced to a free action. This would include loading a new case into a repeating crossbow.
Are you sure? The action of putting a new case in is specifically called ‘loading’ not “reloading”.
Yep. Cause it's reloading a single bolt and loading an entire case of bolts.
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I would say that, if nothing else, the following line "You can fire a crossbow as many times in a full attack action as you could attack if you were using a bow" should make it clear that the feat removes the normal crossbow restrictions for all crossbows to allow them to be fully as effective as a bow.
If I were feeling feisty I might even say that that line allows you to use Manyshot with a crossbow as well, but I won't dive into that morass.
Y'know. Im just going to forget about the crossbow and go with the Comp Longbow.
There appears to be to much of a mess involving it.
Besides, with various gear(belts, Ioun Stones, Helmets) i can increase my damage with my bow.
If i ever want to make a Crossbowman, i will just to a fighter or something.
If you play a small inquisitor, you can do well with a repeating crossbow. You don't have much of a strength bonus, if any, so a repeating mechanical bow does better damage for you, especially with a feat or 2.
Any medium-sized inquisitor will do better with a longbow, unless it totally dumped strength. I don't see that happening, much.