Witch's vs Immunities


Advice


I am playing a level 6 witch and am finding myself pretty darn useless, so far the opponents we have thought are constructs, oozes, and un-dead and against all 3 my character is next to useless, my hexes don't work (apart from misfortune) my spells don't work (apart from burning touch) so I have pretty much spent the whole of combat flying 10 ft above the battle looking for something useful to do (fly hex got to love it). So what are a witches options against enemies with tonnes of immunities?

Grand Lodge

Seen similar issues before but keep in mind witches are full arcane casters - their spell list isn't entirely all suck. What would a level 6 wizard do?

Ear piecing scream does sonic damage. Summon monster. Burning gaze. Glitterdust. Web. Hostile Levitation. Lighting Bolt. Rain of Frogs.

All spells with direct combat applications. Witches just have the benefit of having hexes for extra fun but they aren't the only thing that witches have.


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Fortune hex. As any with any spellcaster that can't harm the foes - keep some buff spell at hand. You are never useless as long as you can make the fight easier for the rest of your party.


Unfortunately the party is made up of all casters so fortune is pretty weak (no attack rolls).


Rays use attack rolls...could help with that...


take better patron...
UMD
also remember fortune works PERFECT on summoning!


its all about controling a battlefield.
throw down a web then insinerat the creatures inside, fortune is a blast and misfortune is not to be underestimated. you can make a GMs day suck when they are rolling hot dice and critting only to have them take the meh on the reroll. The witch I am playing now makes great use of wands with UMD on the skill list. With other casters in your group you have a miriad of spells at your command, you just need one person with craft wand.


Wind Chime wrote:
I am playing a level 6 witch and am finding myself pretty darn useless, so far the opponents we have thought are constructs, oozes, and un-dead and against all 3 my character is next to useless, my hexes don't work (apart from misfortune) my spells don't work (apart from burning touch) so I have pretty much spent the whole of combat flying 10 ft above the battle looking for something useful to do (fly hex got to love it). So what are a witches options against enemies with tonnes of immunities?

I've found it useful to grab combat reflexes and a long spear, then just hover above them and wait for them to start moving. You may not be doing insane damage, but combine it with the spell recommendations others have been giving and you should be okay.


also:
enlarge person on the melle.
patron ned to add nice boost like haste
burning hands and so on


Take different spells, you don't need to focus in mind-affecting enchantments.

Bestow Curse, blindness, Ash Storm, Rain of Frogs, Web, Lipstitch, Vomit Swarm, Enervation, Black Tentacles are all of them good spells. You can always use Lightning bolt also.


Black tentacles is a level 4 spell which also Isn't on the witch's spell list, enervation is negative levels (constructs and instead are immune), rain of frogs does mediocre damage and poison this doesn't work work in undead, oozes or constructs, lipstich only works casters and blindness and ash storm don't work on oozes (blindsight).


Wind Chime wrote:
Black tentacles is a level 4 spell which also Isn't on the witch's spell list, enervation is negative levels (constructs and instead are immune), rain of frogs does mediocre damage and poison this doesn't work work in undead, oozes or constructs, lipstich only works casters and blindness and ash storm don't work on oozes (blindsight).

Besides Black Tentacles, which was a freudian slip because my witch has Occult as his patron, everything else still helps you.

You can cast ash storm in the undeads, and enervation in the oozes. You can cast bestow curse on both, and lightning on most.

Most spells have limitations on what they can affect. From Confusion to flesh to stone, from baleful polymorph to fireball. The problem comes when you focus exclusively on one kind of effect (such as compulsions and charms).


1st: Misfortune is one of your more powerful hexes. Just keep using it, and cackle, to keep the baddies mired all battle long. EVen if thats all you can do you are still doing * a ton *.

2nd: If you are literally never able to use the rest of your hexes though I'd advise talking to the DM. A houserule or two could save the day, allowing you to be more effective. (especially if its suddenly turned into an undead only campaign- something you should have been made aware of before making a character in the first place).

While all the suggestions about spells listed in above posters are good, if a good 80% of your class effectiveness is being negated simply because the DM is choosing monsters to hose you then you need to have a talk with 'em about it to see if some middle ground can be reached.

-S

Grand Lodge

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All caster party may be the reason the GM has gone this route... food for thought.


I have considered killing the character off and getting a sorcerer duel-blooded (orc and draconic) admixture wizard but am worried that I would step on the toes of the focused blaster by just being better than her at her stick.

Shadow Lodge

Why not play a non-caster?


Get a scroll of snowball and force your familiar to learn it. It and intensified snowball are probably your best option for direct damage.


All the pc's are misfits from the arcane university apart from the cleric who is supposed to keep us out of trouble. So my options are Summoner, Witch, sorcerer, Wizard, bard and some of the 3rd party stuff.


What about Magus?


Wind Chime wrote:
Black tentacles is a level 4 spell which also Isn't on the witch's spell list, enervation is negative levels (constructs and instead are immune), rain of frogs does mediocre damage and poison this doesn't work work in undead, oozes or constructs, lipstich only works casters and blindness and ash storm don't work on oozes (blindsight).

Black Tentacles is on the spell list, at least according to the pfsrd. It is level four as you say though.


Grey Lensman wrote:
What about Magus?

Forgot about Magus.

Shadow Lodge

Wind Chime wrote:
All the pc's are misfits from the arcane university apart from the cleric who is supposed to keep us out of trouble. So my options are Summoner, Witch, sorcerer, Wizard, bard and some of the 3rd party stuff.

Maybe your new character was a kid who's parents ignored his lack of magical potential and shoved him into the school anyway, where his most noteable achievement was giving swirlies to pasty-faced wizard kids. :)

That's kinda handicapping, saying everyone has to be an arcane character. Not to mention, as you are discovering, it forces players into stepping all over each other's niches.


Wind Chime wrote:
All the pc's are misfits from the arcane university apart from the cleric who is supposed to keep us out of trouble. So my options are Summoner, Witch, sorcerer, Wizard, bard and some of the 3rd party stuff.

A summoner always can go back to Eidolon Smash! when his repertoire of spells isn't adequated vs the enemies.


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Yeah it sounds like making a summoner would do your group a lot of good. It can actually melee, and all the casters can baby it with their buff spells. It could be your school mascot.

Sovereign Court

All bow down before the Almighty School Spirit! It slices! It dices!

Anyway, talk with the GM. Ask him if he's planning to continue going in the current direction (monsters against which the common Witch is ill-equipped), because if he does, you'll either have to switch tactics or characters.

A thought: it's possible he's been putting in a lot of monsters with immunity to your abilities, because he's read GM advice about how to deal with Witches. Witches scare a lot of GMs.

In that case you should talk with him about finding a happier middle ground, where you don't feel useless, but also don't one-shot Slumber everything into oblivion. Obviously the GM should be challenging you, but not so much that you never get to do anything at all.

Also: diversify your attacks. As a wizard I try to have level-appropriate attacks against all three saves and touch AC in my arsenal. It's a bit harder for witches to cover all those bases, but try.

Shadow Lodge

Why are people saying Black Tentacles isn't on the Witch's spell list? Did this get changed: http://paizo.com/pathfinderRPG/prd/advanced/baseClasses/witch.html


I feel your pain - in the game my witch is in, we fight vampires every other session, so 90% of my best tricks are instantly no-selled.

Summon Monster I-IX are on the witch spell-list, and each level of that contains great potential for pain. (Against Immune to Everything enemies, Lantern Archons are nice, as their zap specifically ignores all resistances.)

Bestow Curse can work on just about anything that isn't immune to magic, and has a million possible ways to hose opponents.


like all classes in the game (maybe summoner is exluded)
the main trick is versitility.
take hexes, but also buffs.
enlarge person, patrons that give haste,fortune on allies, fortune on summoned createres.

if the game is loaded with mind immune crappies- there are 2 feats to take that allow your spells to function as normal- and witches are not feat hungry.

if you can buy items- UMD + skill focus are the way to use scrolls and wands.

my DM dont allow scroll buying so i am witch spell hungry... as such i make sure i take defferent use of spells - 1 save or suck, 1 diret damage (ear piercing, burning hands, lighting bolt...)
and summoning.

you can even take aug. summong and better your summons.

you DO have options, just make sure not to falll to 1 niche - yes in that niche you'll be a god - but rest of the time you'll sit and do crap.


666bender wrote:


if the game is loaded with mind immune crappies- there are 2 feats to take that allow your spells to function as normal- and witches are not feat hungry.

I have to know, what two feats?

Shadow Lodge

Pathfinder Maps, Pathfinder Accessories Subscriber; Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber; Starfinder Superscriber
Sebas310 wrote:
Wind Chime wrote:
I am playing a level 6 witch and am finding myself pretty darn useless, so far the opponents we have thought are constructs, oozes, and un-dead and against all 3 my character is next to useless, my hexes don't work (apart from misfortune) my spells don't work (apart from burning touch) so I have pretty much spent the whole of combat flying 10 ft above the battle looking for something useful to do (fly hex got to love it). So what are a witches options against enemies with tonnes of immunities?
I've found it useful to grab combat reflexes and a long spear, then just hover above them and wait for them to start moving. You may not be doing insane damage, but combine it with the spell recommendations others have been giving and you should be okay.

Actually better than that: take the Prehensile Hair Hex. It has 10' reach and uses Int as its bonus for attack and damage.


pH unbalanced wrote:
Sebas310 wrote:
Wind Chime wrote:
I am playing a level 6 witch and am finding myself pretty darn useless, so far the opponents we have thought are constructs, oozes, and un-dead and against all 3 my character is next to useless, my hexes don't work (apart from misfortune) my spells don't work (apart from burning touch) so I have pretty much spent the whole of combat flying 10 ft above the battle looking for something useful to do (fly hex got to love it). So what are a witches options against enemies with tonnes of immunities?
I've found it useful to grab combat reflexes and a long spear, then just hover above them and wait for them to start moving. You may not be doing insane damage, but combine it with the spell recommendations others have been giving and you should be okay.
Actually better than that: take the Prehensile Hair Hex. It has 10' reach and uses Int as its bonus for attack and damage.

Yeah that works over a couple of levels, the longspear is just a quick fix for the mean time and doesn't cost a hex.


Narcolepto wrote:
666bender wrote:


if the game is loaded with mind immune crappies- there are 2 feats to take that allow your spells to function as normal- and witches are not feat hungry.

I have to know, what two feats?

threnodic spell (+2, kinda hefty) lets mind-affecting spells work on undead, not sure what else he's talking about.


Thanatopic Spell - allow necro spells as well.


Well, death effects, specifically, but yes.


Summon Monster III, Lantern Archon.


to sum it up - as a plyer that play a witch now .
if you are after max/min or to always be #1 - witch is not the best option, also - it is wring to build a 1 shtick pony - like many other classes, rogues, monks, rangers or even oracles.
if you focus too heavy on 1 trick you'll get smacked.
i build my witch as a good hexer, but make sure to take summoing spelss and patron that allow buff spells.
that way there will NEVER be a time i cant do anything...
yes, last meeting, Vs the undead unfested tower -i was alot less effective, but unleashing the celectial leopord that used smite with fortune blessing --- sure did the aid the party needed.
so was haste, enlarge person, cure light wands i made and much more.

last thing, make sure past level 8 you take ward hex. yes - it only lasdt on 1 person and until hit / failed. but you can re do it EVERY round. so, if the opponent is immune, and you have no usefull spells - buff the friends for +3 AC and +3 saves. they will thank you.

Shadow Lodge

What do your ability scores look like?

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