Alchemist - How to bomb with party


Advice


Alright so I'm pretty new to Pathfinder and we are level 6 in a campaign right now. The problem I am having is that I took several AOE discoveries (smoke, stink) but I am never able to use them because my party members are in melee. How can I function as crowd control without interfering with my party or harming them?

RPG Superstar 2013 Top 16

Did you see the Precise Bombs discovery?


Alright so I'm pretty new to Pathfinder and we are level 6 in a campaign right now. The problem I am having is that I took several AOE discoveries (smoke, stink) but I am never able to use them because my party members are in melee. How can I function as crowd control without interfering with my party or harming them?

Note: I originally posted this in the wrong place. Sorry for that.


Yup I did. In fact I'm going Grenadier archetype. The problem there is that they cannot leave their square (assuming they are in melee with my target/s) without exposing themselves to the AOE.


Precise Bomb discovery. It allows you to remove a number of squares from the splash damage equal to your int mod. From there, it's just placement of the bombs.

Also, be sure to communicate with your party. I played in a game with another player playing a bomb focuses alchemist, and we always talked tactics about when and where to best place the bombs. We did our best to set up ambushes where the alchemist's bombs would do the most good, we tried to let the alchemist throw a bomb first before we rushed in, and more. It's all about communication; without that, effective tactics are impossible.


1) Stink bomb only lasts for 1 round, although the effect lasts longer.
2) Do you guys discuss strategy, or is it a general scream and charge group.? I have a guy in my gaming groups (we're more ranged than melee, he's our only melee) who had atendancy to scream and charge. he's been learning strategy and waiting for the alchemeist to do his stuff first.

3) Stink is particularily good: Your melee goes forward, gets surrounded, you throw. Half (or more) of the people start retching, it dissapates next round.

4) Explosive and force bomb are good when your peeps need to move around.


well this the age old wizard with a fireball problem.

you should know what your AoE is, so... throw your bomb so you affect someone (hopefully multiple someones) at the edge of your AoE

OR

Do something else.

the opportunity to use your special power/spell isn't guaranteed. If you used it, other players could easily say 'how to do i melee, the alchemist is always using stink bombs'

so it will go both ways.

if it becomes a longterm issue, ask the DM if you can reinvest in other discoveries since you can't use the powers youve invested in.


Strafe bomb is very easy to aim carefully, and can be downright frightening in the right circumstances.


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Just yell, "Fire in the hole!" and cut loose. They'll learn soon enough!


More seriously, though, talk to your players and let them know that melee will probably go better for them if you can lay down some hate first. If your initiative mod is bad that might explain why they're always in melee before you can chuck bombs, and you'll want to improve it ASAP.

Killing an extract of enlarge person and using that martial weapon you picked up as a grenadier might be a good call when you can't toss bombs. Between that and your mutagen you can be a pretty formidable switch hitter, especially if you're swinging a "big dice" weapon like a pole arm.

Sczarni

Grab some discoveries that are especially damaging to whoever takes the direct hit. Force Bomb can knock the target prone, which is kind of doing the melee guys a favor even though he's still taking splash damage. Dispelling Bomb can remove a target's Bull Strength or Enlarge Person, which your melee will thank you for, and can even stack with Smoke or Stink.

Grand Lodge

Splash Weapon Mastery helps with misses as well.

Combine with the Precise Bomb Discovery, and you are good.

Note: You can target squares, instead of creatures, which helps against high touch AC enemies.


I thought you could target grid intersections, not squares.

Maybe both? I'm not so sure.

Silver Crusade

Yup:

PRD wrote:
You can instead target a specific grid intersection. Treat this as a ranged attack against AC 5. However, if you target a grid intersection, creatures in all adjacent squares are dealt the splash damage, and the direct hit damage is not dealt to any creature. You can't target a grid intersection occupied by a creature, such as a Large or larger creature; in this case, you're aiming at the creature.

Grand Lodge

Yes, grid intersection, that was it.

Grand Lodge

Explosive Missile plus Precise Bombs works too. On a hit you ignore squares based on your Int. on a miss the bomb doesn't explode.


Thanks everyone! I think what I am going to have to do is use it judiciously but talk with my party next time we meet and let them know that I will often open with some type of AOE if I have the opportunity. We should be able to figure out ways for it to work out even more to our advantage.


Thanks everyone! I think what I am going to have to do is use it judiciously but talk with my party next time we meet and let them know that I will often open with some type of AOE if I have the opportunity. We should be able to figure out ways for it to work out even more to our advantage.


trollbill wrote:
Explosive Missile plus Precise Bombs works too. On a hit you ignore squares based on your Int. on a miss the bomb doesn't explode.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but doesn't Explosive Missle attach normal AC instead of touch AC (since it's an attack made by a ranged weapon)?

So this can be tough to use for alchemists without tons of dex since the BAB progression is not great. So I'm not sure how workable this is, since the strongest aspect of the bomber type of alchemist is "it's easy to hit touch AC for almost everybody" (which allows you to be basically a one attribute class.) Since bombs are limited, an alchemist probably plays a little differently if you intend to use explosive missile.

Precise Bombs is amazing though.

Assistant Software Developer

I merged the threads on this topic.

Shadow Lodge

My alchemist has targeted grid intersections for most of his 4 levels.

(do note that Precise Bombs doesn't function when your bomb misses)


If your INT is high and you are still rolling only 1d6, then the splash damage is comparable to the main damage.

A d6 averages 3.5 damage, so you miss out on 2.5 damage (per damage die) if you hit with splash.
Therefore, if you only have a few d6 of damage then it is not too bad to only hit with the splash (as Serum suggests), especially if your INT is high.
(As an extreme example, with +6 INT bonus, your average damage is 9.5 for a hit, and 7 for splash).

Unfortunately, the splash allows a reflex save to half, but I don't think the main target gets a save. The save DC is based on your INT, though, so again, if your INT is high then it is ok to only try to hit with the splash.

Finally, it is considerably harder to hit touch AC of an opponent (often 10 or more) vs touch AC 5 for a grid intersection. If your DEX is decent* this might not be a problem though. Still, if you are having trouble hitting directly then you might actually gain damage by aiming to hit with the splash only.

*I half-joking made a Venerable age mind chemist. He has a +6 INT bonus but -2 DEX bonus. Probably worthwhile to target those 5 AC grid intersections!

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