My 5th level Scarred Witch Doctor


Advice


Hey all, just made my Witch Doctor and wanted to post here for any suggestions... thanks!

5th level
Class- Scarred Witch Doctor
Race- Half Elf (took Racial Heritage)

Stats: 25 Point Build

Str- 8
Dex- 14
Int- 14
Wis- 12
Con- 21 (4th lvl point here)
Cha- 8

Fort- 6
Ref- 3
Will- 7

Feats:
Extra Hex x2
Racial Heritage

Hexes:
Cackle
Misfortune
Flight
Slumber

Patron: Endurance

Spells:
1st- Mage Armor x3 (to always have on), Obscuring Mist x1 (for pesky archers), Cure Light x1 (what the heck..)
2nd- Bears Endurance x1 (boost my DCs against bosses), Miserable Pity x1 (incase I happen to get attacked while flying), Web x1 (just more battlefield control)
3rd- Loathsome Veil x1, Lightning Bolt x1

Traits: Reactionary, Elven Reflexes (+4 total init)

Skills: Fly-10, Spellcraft-10, Perception- 8, Umd- 7

AC- 17 (with mage armor)
Init- 6
HP- haven't rolled for hps yet


It looks great to me! I commend you on your choice of hexes. Lot of players are gaga over Evil Eye, but I don't really like it so much until 8th level.

Why Half-Elf instead of Half-Orc?


I chose Half Elf because I felt like +2 to will saves (Dual Minded) and +2 to enchantments PLUS +2 to perception was better than +1 to all saves which I feel would be the only real benefit half orcs would have over half-elves


You have two traits that give trait bonus to initiative?


Aeric Blackberry wrote:
You have two traits that give trait bonus to initiative?

Yes, that doesn't work as trait bonuses don't stack as far as I know.


sure, but it puts a smile on the GM's face when they say 'sure, those are both legal trait selections... they don't stack though' ;-)


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Looks very nice!

A minor nitpick: You technically can't put ranks in Fly before level 5, which I believe would limit you to at most a +9 bonus (assuming you put all 4 skill points in it at level 5). Also, in that case you can't have your other skills maxed out at that point.

Also on skills: Why UMD? It's a good skill, but it requires a BIG investment before its worth it, especially on a character with negative Cha. And you have few skill points as it is. Any campaign-specific reason you have it?


ahh thanks for pointing that out about the double trait bonus, didn't even think about it. What's a good sub for a witch?


about UMD... I figure it'll come in handy, and couldn't really think of another good skill. any suggestions?


You could pick the trait that lets you lower the impact of a metamagic feat for one spell (I think it was magical knack) if you plan on ever taking metamagic feats.


Remember that Half Orcs can get a +1 to all their saves in a similiar way that Half-Elves can get that +2 to their will saves, and this save you a feat to get, say, Iron Will which has the same effect.

Though honestly I'd just ask your DM if you could just be a Half-Elf Witch Doctor, since racial restrictions on anything but racial trait specific archetypes like Grey Disciple are pretty silly and technically not RAW.

Grand Lodge

Does Racial Heritage allow for the Scarred Witch Doctor archetype? I was under the impression that it allowed for effects, but archetypes and such weren't effects?


orog58 wrote:
I chose Half Elf because I felt like +2 to will saves (Dual Minded) and +2 to enchantments PLUS +2 to perception was better than +1 to all saves which I feel would be the only real benefit half orcs would have over half-elves

Being a half-orc would get you a feat, darkvision and a good weapon proficiency. If you want to play a half-elf, that's cool, but it's not mechanically stronger.

Liberty's Edge

Grellash Demonspawn wrote:
Does Racial Heritage allow for the Scarred Witch Doctor archetype? I was under the impression that it allowed for effects, but archetypes and such weren't effects?

No, that feat would allow you to take other feats related to that subtype.

The problem lies in the fact that that feat is Human Only, and the Half-Elf trait Elf Blooded reads that they are counted as humans and elves for any EFFECT related to race. That does not include feats.

Thus, the only way to actually pull this off would be to be a human to begin with. Or a Sorcerer of the Orc Bloodline.

Grand Lodge

Sorry. That is actually what I was referring to. Thanks for the clarification Strange.


unfortunately or maybe fortunately, our dm is pretty strict with what we can get away with. There's no racial flying, no gunslinger/cavalier/zen archer and the summoner is being toned down severely if someone wants to play one. but everything else is strictly by the book so I have to take the Racial Heritage feat.


Strange, actually in the FAQ on pathfinder website a question was posed that specifically asks if Racial Heritage allows you to be the archtype from the race you chose, and the devs said yes.

However thanks for pointing out that I can't be a half-elf, although I think I could slip it by the DM without him being the wiser, I'll probably just go Human instead. The extra feat is nice, but losing low light/dark vision (half-elf alternate) sucks big time


No Zen Archer but allowing the scarred witch doctor? Interesting.

If you're going Strictly By The Book, the you technically can't be a half-elven scarred witch doctor. You choose your class and archetype before you choose your feats, and since you don't qualify for scarred witch doctor at the time you take your first level in Witch, and it modifies first level abilities, you can't take it.


any suggestions on what my extra skill should be for being Human? so far I have Fly, Spellcraft, Perception, and UMD

Sovereign Court

StrangePackage wrote:
Grellash Demonspawn wrote:
Does Racial Heritage allow for the Scarred Witch Doctor archetype? I was under the impression that it allowed for effects, but archetypes and such weren't effects?

No, that feat would allow you to take other feats related to that subtype.

This is incorrect, please see the FAQ below. However, I do a agree that it is a human only feat so you will be unable to take the feat unless you are a human.

FAQ wrote:


Can a human with the Racial Heritage feat take levels in an archetype that requires you to be of a specific race?

Yes, the Racial Heritage feat allows you to qualify for archetypes that have the chosen race as a requirement, assuming you still meet all of the other requirements to take levels in the archetype.

—Jason Bulmahn, 07/27/12

Edit: Ninja'd by the OP...


Also I have a question about Craft wondrous item for the witch doctor's mask... are you only able to craft the enchantments listed under headgear in the craft wondrous item section? I.e. I can't make my hat a +2 con hat or hat of bears endurance?

I only ask cause we've played for 15 years as a group but basically were never allowed to craft cause dm said it was too easy to craft great things. Now he's letting us if we take the feats and such just not giving us much gold to work with lol


orog58 wrote:

Also I have a question about Craft wondrous item for the witch doctor's mask... are you only able to craft the enchantments listed under headgear in the craft wondrous item section? I.e. I can't make my hat a +2 con hat or hat of bears endurance?

I only ask cause we've played for 15 years as a group but basically were never allowed to craft cause dm said it was too easy to craft great things. Now he's letting us if we take the feats and such just not giving us much gold to work with lol

Masks use up the head slot, not the headband slot.

Yes, they're different. No, I don't know why.


orog58 wrote:
Also I have a question about Craft wondrous item for the witch doctor's mask... are you only able to craft the enchantments listed under headgear in the craft wondrous item section? I.e. I can't make my hat a +2 con hat or hat of bears endurance?

You can enchant any item to have any ability, regardless of what slot it's worn in. That used to be restricted in a previous edition of D&D, but Pathfinder did away with the restriction.


so where would i find the DC and requirments of making my mask a +2 con mask?


I would pick a different patron than Endurance. Miracle is awesome, but that comes very late and everything else is mediocre at best.

I would not learn Miserable Pity. It's a horrible spell, it's basically Sanctuary, except higher level and less good.

If you're going Half-Elf, you should be planning on using the Skill Focus to qualify for Eldritch Heritage. If not, I would go Human or Half-Orc instead.


half orcs could get darkvision 90 and skilled as well. not spend a feat, which could be instead spent on fast learner, giving your witch 6 skills per level. and darkvision 90 is far better than low light.

you trade darkvision for skilled
than trade ferocity for enhanced darkvision, giving you darkvision 90 and skilled for the price of ferocity.


half orcs and half elves can't be scarred witch doctors as it's been pointed out before, only humans with racial heritage or straight orcs


orog58 wrote:
half orcs and half elves can't be scarred witch doctors as it's been pointed out before, only humans with racial heritage or straight orcs

instead of restricting it based on species, i would restrict such an option based on background. a half orc raised by orcs should be able to become such, as should a human or half elf (or other race) from a tribal background.


unfortunately our dm doesn't see it the same way


orog58 wrote:
unfortunately our dm doesn't see it the same way

Orc Blood counts a half orc as both a human and an orc for the purpose of racial effects and prerequisites.


orog58 wrote:
half orcs and half elves can't be scarred witch doctors as it's been pointed out before, only humans with racial heritage or straight orcs

No. Half-Orc's orc blooded has the same wording as the Racial Heritage feat.

And leaving aside the RAW for a moment, seriously...

How can it not be viewed as utterly moronic that Half-Orcs, who are literally half of orcish origin and who *ALL* have an intrinsic racial feature explicitly to say so, do not get to count as orcs, but a human can have a feat that gives him a "heritage" of orc ancestors and HE qualifies?


book says "any effect related to race" devs cleared this up and stated it cannot be used to get racial archtypes only Racial Heritage can. it's in the FAQ


the ability to choose a racial archetype is an effect. not the archetype itself, but the ability to choose one.


Might be dumb... but

Can a human with the Racial Heritage feat take levels in an archetype that requires you to be of a specific race?

Yes, the Racial Heritage feat allows you to qualify for archetypes that have the chosen race as a requirement, assuming you still meet all of the other requirements to take levels in the archetype.

—Jason Bulmahn, 07/27/12 Back to Top

and

Can a half-elf or half-orc select racial favored class options from the human entry in the Advanced Player's Guide (page 23)?

No. While half-elves and half-orcs do count as humans "for any effect related to race", racial favored class options do not count as an effect.


that's straight from the FAQ


Ok. So the devs have said archetype is an effect and favored class options are not. I agree that's a dumb place to divide it, but that still doesn't make Racial Heritage work for stuff orc blooded does not. Those questions were asking about different "effects", if they count as such. They just also happened to use different sources of gaining race-related effects. But the fundamental question for each was "is this an effect?"


It doesn't matter if that's an effect or not, the Devs were plain dumb not letting Half Orcs pick that archetype AND letting someone with the racial heritage feat qualify.

Really outside of PFS and their RAW Hell you should waive the race restrictions for archetypes except in the cases where a racial trait is actually specified(Like the Grey Disciple)


Urist The Unstoppable wrote:
It doesn't matter if that's an effect or not, the Devs were plain dumb not letting Half Orcs pick that archetype AND letting someone with the racial heritage feat qualify.

Well, they released a SAD caster that uses constitution as their one stat. What did you expect? :p


Cheapy wrote:
Urist The Unstoppable wrote:
It doesn't matter if that's an effect or not, the Devs were plain dumb not letting Half Orcs pick that archetype AND letting someone with the racial heritage feat qualify.
Well, they released a SAD caster that uses constitution as their one stat. What did you expect? :p

That is a huge boon, but just the idea that a human can say he's an orc and be a Witch Doctor but a Half Orc can't is silly.

Liberty's Edge

Quick, someone tell my GM this for my homebrew game so I can be a Shoanti scarred witchdoctor from the Skoan Quah.


Urist The Unstoppable wrote:
It doesn't matter if that's an effect or not, the Devs were plain dumb not letting Half Orcs pick that archetype AND letting someone with the racial heritage feat qualify.

Show me where it says they can't pick it. All I've seen is an FAQ saying they can't take favored class options. And an FAQ saying the feat lets you take an archetype.

People keep asserting half-orcs can't take scarred witch doctor with no factual basis behind that statement. At worst, it is "unclear." I think the fact that archetype is called an effect by a rules statement and orc blooded counts for effects, then by the transitive property, orc blooded works. But I realize a lot of people dislike logic and reason, so I guess it is most correct to call it "unclear."


It's just that people read the word "effect" and their mind immediately interprets it as "Status Effect", implying the effect of a spell or something similar. If they standardized it and stated explicitly and up-front that racial prerequisites rely on your Racial Subtype (instead of burying it in bits and pieces throughout several of the books) and then just stated that Racial Heritage grants you the Racial Subtype of your choice, then it would be perfectly clear. Because you can use the ARG to design a custom race, lets say for the sake of example we call them Neanderthal. They have the race Humanoid(Human) but they are designed to be cave-men and are, technically, a different species though closely related to Homo Sapiens. Being Humanoid(Human), they qualify as Human for feats, traits, spell effects, etc. because their subtype is Human. However, for some odd reason, the Favored Bonuses aren't restricted to subtype but rather to the specific named race Human (which still doesn't make any kind of sense). That's the other confounding matter here; You have a specific race as well as a racial subtype both called 'Human'.

Dark Archive

I've houseruled when I'm DMing that Half-elves and Half-orcs can take Elven and Orcish archetypes, respectively.

It's silly that they can't, especially when two options that are written the same way apparently don't give the same effect. It's not like it makes sense that an Human who happens to have Orc in his blood CAN take Orc archetypes, while a Half-orc who is directly descended from an Orc, cannot.

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