Dude you will lose. IF it's racially motivated why would the half elf not help, but the half orc might?
You're going to lose.
Personally I'm highly against PvP, especially of this nature.
But if you must, why not the old-fashioned murder them in their sleep technique?
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Kill them all while they are sleeping. Not heroic that way but eh.
Buy a wand of silence (hopefully you have UMD), greater invisibilty, stealth, coup de grace everyone. The end.
Why would you play with a group where you have to kill them?
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Another thing to try is offer to teleport the group somewhere. Then teleport them 1 mile directly upward. Oh, they forget their rings of feather fall? You didn't!
If you want to do it in the thick of battle, I think high-level scrolls are your best choice (because otherwise how is one character going to take down 8 of his teammates?)
Start Mage's Disjunction. Every adventurer's nightmare. Hopefully you get some of their Cloaks of Resistance. Then move on to:
Mass Suffocation
Horrid Wilting
Meteor Swarm
Weird
Dominate Person
And use a Ring of Counterspells on whatever spells your team can cast that you're most afraid of. To add insult to injury, have that character cast the spell into the ring themself.
Woah woah, are you sure you're on the same page as the DM about this?
He might not mean "kill the party" when he said subvert their efforts? Maybe he just meant you should feed misinformation and distract the party from the expansionist efforts. Something like "My Blackblade senses treasure three days east of here" where you can lead them elsewhere. Get creative. It's still kind of a jerk role to play IMO, but I can see that sort of PvP being acceptable in some groups.
"Hey guys, thanks for coming. Unfortunately your characters were all murdered in their sleep by the Magus. Thanks for playing. So, who's up for some Smash Bros?"
That doesn't sound like a very satisfying campaign conclusion to me, I can't imagine that's what the DM is angling for.
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Seriously, murdering the party in their sleep is so easy, it's one of the biggest suspensions of disbelieve that you have to make when playing the game because no rational BBEG wouldn't just kill the party in their sleep.
If you have Silence, Greater Invis and a decently powerful weapon (preferably one with a triple/quadruple crit), then there's pretty much no way to stop you.
isn't that why there is always someone pulling watch? because in the olden days everyone always got woken up being chewed on my wolves so it became SOP?
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isn't that why there is always someone pulling watch? because in the olden days everyone always got woken up being chewed on my wolves so it became SOP?
What good is a watch vs an enemy you can't see or hear? All that's going to happen is that the guy on watch is going to find 3 dead party members in their tents.
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tents? tents.... wait TENTS?! damn 20 years of sleeping outside up against a rock, getting chewed on by wolves and I could have bought a tent!
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I recommend suiciding your character... He realizes he's been bitten by an inexplicable murderous evil and doesnt want to inflict it on his compatriots. Leave a suicide note. Something about 'can't we all just get along' 'I wish we could all live together in harmony' 'I should have been a bard' 'If clandestine murdurous racial politics is right, then i'd rather be wrong.' 'I love you all'
I just dont like gms running my character is all. Theres nothing worse in any gaming system than 'I was a d*** to the party because I was playing in character' except perhaps 'I was being a d*** to the party because the dm told me to... and i was playing in character'
We obviously have tables that run in very different ways. Take it for what it is. PVP is exactly the kind of gaming I did back when i was a tween so I see killing your party members as being tweencore. All a matter of perspective.
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I will say that I don't play with a single person I used to PvP with, and most of them don't game anymore. Not wrongbad fun, but its turned at least 2 people i know away from gaming permanently.
You need to attack them in a bottleneck area.
1. Cast Black Tentacles (4th). No Save or Spell Resistance. It is a grapple attack (CMB = Caster Lvl+5). 20' area should get a bulk of them. They can try and break free, but if you throw down a Grease spell they should have a hard time getting to far away.
2. Cast Stinking Cloud (3rd). Fort Save but No SR. If your lucky and they are grappled, and they fail (which will be hard since your party if Fort Heavy), they will become Nauseated (can't do anything but a 5' step).
3. Cast Ray of Exhaustion (3rd) on those that Save or Break Grapple on either spell. They will get a Fort Save and SR Save. But if they fail the Fort they are Fatigued, and if they get re-grappled they will become Exhausted. And the Negatives to Strength and Dex start rolling in.
4. Cast Flaming Sphere (2nd) and have it run over everyone that is grappled and hopefully nauseated. The spell last 10 rounds and you can control how it moves.
Don't forget to attack each one of your party members with a Coup de grace. Sure its a full round attack opening you up to AoO, but if you did your ground work right you should be able to pull it off. Kill the bard first, then the Cleric, then the Paladin, followed by the Ranger and Barbarian. The fighters can die last. You said your Shocking Grasp is "boss" and I don't see why you can use that for your Coup de grace.
Coup is automatic hit and crit so use you most damage dealing spells for those kill blows. They will get a save vs die (Fort DC = 10+Crit DMG). So make it count.
Your special Magus attack lets you do full round attacks and cast spells so use use that ability to lay waste to your party. Remember, spells that have no save or partial saves are the once you are going to want to use. Immobilize them, then Nauseated is the best tactic. You want them helpless so you can use the Coup de grace.
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PvP is bad. No one likes it except the one doing the murdering. Expect to lose 2-3 members of your gaming group. If it is the intent to do so, by all means continue on.
My thoughts; Your character should put a message in the appropriate hands to arrange an ambush of you and the party against overwhelming odds. You all die a la Butch Cassidy and the Sundance Kid . Campaign over.
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Oh man, I'm with you guys that interparty conflict sucks, and my chances are poor even if I'm crafty. If I had it my way we'd all be working together, but it's just not in the cards this time.
You do you have your way. You can work together. You are deciding not to, and blaming it on what -- fate? Chance? Right.
And what do you mean by saying your GM backed you into this situation? If he truly wants to make life bad for you, then maybe he's hinting at something.
In any case, think about this for a minute.
Let's say he/they want you to take a hike for some reason. Killing them all on the way out is not only childish, it also burns bridges you might want to keep open for some later date.
Now let's say they are not hinting, and you are just poorly reacting to a tough situation. Killing a bunch of your fellow PCs HAD BETTER GET YOU KICKED OUT OF THE GROUP, or I will hunt that GM and those players down myself, and strip them of their RPG badges.
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Why are people actually trying to help the OP?
OP, what the hell is wrong with your DM that he's openly encouraging you to kill the other PCs?
This sounds like a game of Paranoia. If I were the OP, I'd watch my back - everyone else probably has similar kill-em-all orders.
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my gm put me into a situation where I'm going to have to do away with my adventuring party (due to clandestine racial politics).
DM tasked me to subvert this and where possible, weaken the human position while avoiding any blame for doing so, which could be construed as an act of war.
My first reaction when I saw this being set up was to pull the DM aside and say "You know, I might have to try to kill the whole party." His response was "You gotta do what you gotta do."
Your DM NEVER told you to kill your comrades. In fact, I feel he is encouraging you to try it while believing wholeheartedly that you will FAIL. If you succeed, things will go very bad for your group of players and DM.
That is of course if this thread is not merely a trollish thing. I am always wary of posters who bring up such situations and have only their 5 posts on this thread as their total post history on the boards.
Don't kill them..
But if you have too - you'll need allies.
It seems you just want the artifact. You could offer to carry it, and the dimention door out.
Or use an encounter - find out who is carring the artifact - keep close to his - use a few rounds to buff your self (while you buff the rest of the party should be using resourses to survive, and perhaps take some dam), isolate him from the rest of the party - solid fog might work (or a scroll of wall of stone).
Kill him - take artifact an leave. The party can raise the one you killed and you are free to enjoy your new found NPC/Villain status...
You can try to kill your party, but here is what is going to happen. Unlike a MMO where you can PVP and gank to your hearts content, pathfinder is a face to face social experience. Even thou your in game actions might be justified by the roleplay and story, you are still going to be branded as someone that can not be trusted by those players. Even if you play saintly lawful good paladin, your in game actions will be never trusted again at that table.
Be prepared for the consequences if you decide to go thru with your plan. Someone is going to take it personal and the group chemistry might be affected permanently.
And if the party keeps playing don't be surprised if someone make a char with a the sole purpose of killer yours...
"you killed my father - perpare to die!"
I understand but don't approve of all the flack the OP is taking. He's mentioned that at his table PKing and Chardeaths are common. If the DM gave orders to subvert, then well done.
I've played in games where you get secret missions that aren't always happy-bunny sunshine mode. We RP'd the game, knowing there were winning conditions that may or may not put them in conflict with each other and it was hella fun.
The OP will know his gaming group better than us and I doubt he would risk his playgroup if he thought they would react with "Thanks a!#!@!$. Game's ruined." as opposed to "Haha, holy crap. You got us that time! Now what?"
Besides, the plot is pretty rife with PvP overtones. It sounds like something I'd enjoy actually. And besides, with a group of 9 players and a asston of henchmen, maybe the DM doesn't mind culling the herd a little bit.
I can't see how this situation couldn't be made better by a some sovereign glue, several doses of oil of taggit, and creative use of the disable device skill.
@Thunderfrog - nicely said. My party isn't his - I know how my players would feel - but in his gaming group it might be acceptable...
And for advice again - the backstab - turn sides in the middle of big fight. Just make sure you have a way out... And know you'll only get on chance.
But it's a BIG party - if you don't take a few out before the fight starts (kill them in their sleep) you are gonna have a hard time
I understand the hesitation by many posters who seem to think that it is wrong to take out your fellow party members, but the reality of the situation is that none of us really know what the DM is planning.
The OP came to this Advice Forum for advice on how to take out his party. It should be our responsibility as advice givers to honor his request and help him come up with a solution to his dilemma.
I understand the ethics of the situation, but in actuality the Magus may be the pawn the DM has been searching for. Someone to provide a unique and challenging scenario for his players. So instead of rehashing the ethics behind the actions of the DM, and instilling our own fears of possible future outcomes between group dynamics from this scenario, maybe we should just come up with a brilliant strategy for him to win the game. After all, that is why we are here reading this Advice Forum.
From personal experience (gaming for 25 years), I have been with my same group of guys, and at our prime we were 8 players and the DM. Now with kids and life we are just 4 regulars and the same DM. In those 25 years we have played 4 major campaigns (each taking 3 years to complete) that involved player manipulation to win the campaign. Honestly, no one has any sort of resentment towards any fellow player about the actions that took place during those games. As a matter of fact, those campaigns we remember fondly. They were the best games we have ever played. The major reason was that we all had to out game each other, and that was the gimmick the DM was looking for in his games.
Whenever my old group gets together for the occasional dinner & drinks we always remember those games, and it always makes us laugh until it hurts. I truly feel that had we never played those types of games we all would have missed out on some excellent opportunities to role play creatively. Out thinking your fellow players without giving away your intentions is like playing poker role playing style.
So lets come together and form a brilliant strategy. Lets help Captain Blackheart win this game.
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No, just because someone comes asking you for advice on something doesn't mean we should give them advice.
We have no idea why he wants to PK the party, but the few things he's said so far don't make it sound like he has a good reason to. And you'd better have a damn good reason if you feel the need to 'off the party.
If someone came on here asking for how to completely ruin any challenge of encounters in his DM's game to make him get frustrated and quit DMing, we wouldn't be trying to help him. I'd hope....
But yet in this situation, where he's trying to backstab the party, and kill them in the most cowardly, dastardly rat-bastardly ways possible (in their sleep, turn on them mid-fight, etc...) that for the VAST majority of players will lead to extremely hard feelings....we're supposed to provide assistence, because the OP asked for it.
Hell NO!
No, just because someone comes asking you for advice on something doesn't mean we should give them advice.
We have no idea why he wants to PK the party, but the few things he's said so far don't make it sound like he has a good reason to. And you'd better have a damn good reason if you feel the need to 'off the party.
If someone came on here asking for how to completely ruin any challenge of encounters in his DM's game to make him get frustrated and quit DMing, we wouldn't be trying to help him. I'd hope....
But yet in this situation, where he's trying to backstab the party, and kill them in the most cowardly, dastardly rat-bastardly ways possible (in their sleep, turn on them mid-fight, etc...) that for the VAST majority of players will lead to extremely hard feelings....we're supposed to provide assistence, because the OP asked for it.
Hell NO!
Then why the hell would you come into a thread in the advice forums with a thread title that reads "HOW DO I PK MY WHOLE PARTY".
Advice forums = A place to give general aid on a question or problem.
TPK MY PARTY = Kill or neutralize from the game everyone I play with.
1+2= A forum question in which help should be given on how to TPK said party given confines and restraints listed.
If you aren't here to help him, you came to troll him or impose your own idea of what is acceptable fun. Neither is acceptable per the forum rules. If you have nothing to add other than "You aren't playing it right" then GTFO and find another thread that you can contribute to.
@ the OP
If no one is suspicious, I think the teleport murder is the most sound solution. If they are suspicious, I hope you pass your bluff check?
Either way, TP those you can to certain doom, come back to earth, and hopefully you don't have anyone who can handle a flying Magus at that point.
Any thread on these boards is fair game for any poster to state their opinion, whether it is giving advice on how to snuff the party or pleading the OP not to do it.
I'm not much of a fan of PVP, so I might discuss it more with the DM to make sure he is aware of how you are seeing the situation.
If you want to take em out, definitely during the night. A wand of silence is not that great an idea unless you can somehow keep the silence from encompassing the entire group. If the ambient sounds of nature suddenly stop, it can be jarring enough to give the others a chance to wake.
Improved Invisibility and area effect spells like black tentacles and cloudkill. Make sure you are flying, to eliminate the threat of those who can't. Take out the squishy casters ASAP. You might even summon a few allies at a distance to provide extra firepower and distraction.
Buy scrolls with empower or maximize for the cloudkill and fireballs and ray of enfeeblement and enervation.
Good luck on whatever path you choose.
If you have nothing to add other than "You aren't playing it right" then GTFO and find another thread that you can contribute to.
I suppose you're absolutely right. My suggestion that he kills himself off isnt very effective at killing off the rest of the party and is less an answer to 'my dm wants me to tpk the party how do i do that' and is more of a 'my dm wants me to tpk my party what should I do about that?"
So I'll formally change my answer to 'kill your own character off, leave a suicide note and hope that the rest of the party follows suit out of grief at having lost such a valuable member of their team..."
Sometimes your most valuable weapon in a fight isnt a tactical advantage or a poweful spell or magic item. Sometimes its the strong emotional ties of friendship and the other characters strongly valuing companionship with such a selfless and noble creature as your character.
I think no matter what gaming scenario you're GM puts you in, its important to try and solve the situation in imaginitive ways. You're gm is expecting you to do what all the other posters would suggest and just try and tackle the dilemma with the direct approach. Attempt victory in combat or attempt victory through tactical advantage... My route just happens to be a third path which is neither the first nor the second approach. Its important to surprise your gm now and then. If all you ever do is whats expected of you then its easy to know whats expected of you.
True, it may not be the most effective way to ensure your success, but I think its strength lies in its simplicity.
I'm with the "turn during a fight" crowd. Slow your party while they're in a large fight, start doing area effect spells.
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The fact that you're even in this situation sort of enforces my point.
My brain literally cannot avoid wondering the kind of conversation that was had that got you into this situation in the first place...
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GM: Blackheart, can you join me in the other room for a minute?
Blackheart: Absolutely!
GM: Ok blackheart. I need to you kill off your party members
Blackheart: Why?
GM: Ah! Most impressive, Blackheart! I was expecting you to simply say 'sounds good to me' but your argument against killing off the party is both erudite and astute... Hmmm. Why does your character want to kill off the party. Hmmmm. Lets say... oh. I don't know. Lets call it... 'Clandestine Racial Politics'
Blackheart: Sounds good to me!
Clearly your gm expects you to do as you are told. He's now inviting you to grow through an as yet unexplored higher level of interparty dynamics. Your gm is not wrong that a PVP confrontation is an interesting tactical and/or social/moral dilemma. You would be wrong to trivialize it. Recognize that moral/emotional drama of choosing clandestine racial politics over interparty relationships is in fact the more complicated and excitingly explorable dilemma than the mechanics-of-gamist-pvp-smackdown-tactics. Do the right thing and up the ante of said moral dilemma by presenting not just-your-one-character but nay, the entire party up to the dilemma of 'how do we handle the loss of such a treasured yet conflicted party member. Perhaps we should raise him in order to help him work through this complicated internal monologue and save him from such a tragic but selfless and noble end.
Most of our gaming tables are left in the shallow first tier tactical moral experiences of
- Adventure Paths,
- 'why is my grimdark world so unbelievable chocked full of gold and magic items'
- 'why isnt my paladin's life filled with back to back atrocious life shattering hardship from day to day'
- or at worst some sort of 'how can my 20th level zen archer beat beastmass without cheating' kind of drama and how can other classes replicate this amazing feat?
Your gm is giving you an amazing opportunity to go beyond such petty pursuits and explore some truly exceptional interpersonal role playing scenarios. Don't let this opportunity pass you by!
Ostensibly when you say 'and give up? thats not how I roll' is the same as saying 'I don't give up that easy"
I'd argue that when the gm says 'Kill off your party" and you say "Yes sir!" you are giving up that easy.
I should also add to the list of shallow first tier experiences that the rest of us are stuck with...
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- why is my world conveniently divided up into squares?
- do i need hands to cast laying on of hands?
but I could make a whole thread of those that wouldnt further the point that having a gm tell you to kill your party off isnt a far superior style of play than the rest of us...
Be thankful that your table is so open minded to these fascinating dynamics!
I've never participated in activity like this, nor has my group of the last 20 years, but it seems like there is a legitimate player background and work with the GM that makes this kosher, as distastefully as some people at taking it.
I think it is better to find another way if possible, but if this is how your group plays and you (and everyone) are okay with the consequences, go for it.
Either the sleep/coup de grace, or the black tentacles/sleeping cloud combo is going to hurt them bad. Maybe poison the cheerios that morning as well. Waiting until they are hurt/depleted in a fight and then hitting them that night before they refresh is going to help. Hold yourself back in the fights and you can hit them in tip-top shape hopefully.
You should dump ranks into diplomacy and get your charisma up then charm the party and make lots of diplomacy checks one party member at a time. Slowly convince them one by one your way is the right way. Start with the cleric and then get him to cast "atonement" after your long private discussion with the other party members to convert them to your alignment/school of though/ religion or what have you. This allows you to subvert the party's intentions and makes for a much cooler story than, "remember the time I killed all of you?". If race is the big issue then pay a druid to cast forced reincarnation, problem solved.
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You can make life harder for them without killing them. After all, in a racially politics charged situation the minute one member walks away alive and the rest are dead, fingers fly to the survivor and who he's working for.
Instead, maybe you let the GM know you'd like to hire some assassins, you remove your gold from your char sheet and let him throw an assassination encounter at the group, maybe you supplied information that will make their job easier.
When you get to a situation where you have to make a choice, like killing v. capturing someone, or taking evidence, make sure that the least helpful thing happens. For example, you know this book holds clues to the location of a treasure, but during the fight, you cast burning hands and "accidentally" scorch the book. Ooops, no treasure for the humans!
Bob has helpful information about the temple? Well none of your spells are non-lethal, you accidentally killed him.
The archbishop character's word is law? Sounds like he could use a smear campaign amongst his people. An emissary arrives telling him that he's wanted back home to meet with the council as some worrying news has come out. Well, now does he go back home to face questioning, or stay adventuring (suspicious, guess who's lost some of his sway?), does he separate from the party, or does the whole party head back with him (oh shucks, looks like we're behind schedule).
When you get a lead or information, feed it to your nation's spy network. The party won't know they're on a deadline to get to the magic item until they show up and it's missing. When this happens a second, and third time, let the allegations of a mole flow through the team, disrupting things quite nicely as everyone tries to figure out who the traitor is, and how they can limit the intelligence leaks in the future.
Read up on your cold war history, the states and USSR didn't nuke each other, instead they made life complicated for the other. Play that game, but be the only one playing it until it's too late!