Recently I've been looking at the barbarian rage power Superstition and have been getting mixed views on it from various guides and general player feedback. What I'm looking to do is compile the rules, feats, powers, spells, items, and abilities that can help make the best of this power. I also wanted the opposites that can make this power worse than useless. So I've come to beg for help to look at every angle. Afterwards I plan to make a guide to help people like me make an informed choice about this one to save some groups a lot of headaches of having to deal with a barbarian that's really tough to heal.
It is awesome in every way. The way you make it better is by playing a Human. The way you make it best is by playing RAGELANCEPOUNCE. It is never worse than useless unless the GM uses only mundane monsters with strictly Extraordinary abilities.
It is still fine and easy to heal Superstitious Barbarians because they are generally not raging in downtime, when ideally, healing takes place.
Plus, it only prevents him from willingly accepting spells, so Channeling and other supernatural heals work fine in combat.
The next time you're playing, pay attention to how many friendly spells care cast on your melee-types during fights (not before the fighter's first action, or after combat). That number is probably 0-1.
The next time you're playing, pay attention to how many friendly spells care cast on your melee-types during fights (not before the fighter's first action, or after combat). That number is probably 0-1.
Exactly, with that "1" coming the rare times when the spellcaster has blown their initiative roll and the melee-types won't wait, or if your character drops below zero and needs emergency healing (in which case, he's not raging anyway).
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The Human favored class bonus for Barbarians lets you pump Superstition's bonus up, past what other races would be able to get normally at that level. Dwarves with the Steel Soul feat and the Glory of the Old trait are able to keep up pretty well, too.
Really, the only time Superstition is bad is just as the others said: when enemies never use spells or spell-like abilities.
If you need to be healed, and you won't survive until the next round for you to drop rage, then so be it! Dying in battle is totally the plan for any good barbarian. ;)
There are lots of threads out there regarding barbarians.
Here are two that will help you out a lot in seeing how people feel about superstition and other rage powers.
Barbarians: the once and future kings - The thread that started it all. This was the thread in which the current barbarian build that everyone loves was developed. It is also the thread that inspired AMBARBARIAN (starts at post 300 something).
Trinam's Barbarian guide thread - This is the thread for Trinam's Barbarian guide. Basically distills down the 300+ thread post above into a more user friendly guide. This guide was made after the ever popular AMBARBARIAN vs any and all spellcaster thread. The guide also contains STR Ranger's original Come and Get Me build (probably the most popular barbarian build out there).
Really, the only time Superstition is bad is just as the others said: when enemies never use spells or spell-like abilities.
Or Supernatural abilities! Just wanted to emphasize a little more just how awesome this Rage Power is.
Something that came up for me while I was looking at spell lists was the question of drinking potions that were beneficial and had no saving throw. Could a barbarian even drink a potion while raging or would that fall under the patience or concentration related tasks barred by rage. I always used to when I didn't have a cleric with me (see below), but it's been bugging me how correct that actually is since I haven't found anything that says it's specifically not allowed.
I have to admit that the downside of superstition gets me mostly because I was a very poor barbarian player when the APG first came out. The cleric would have to wade into combat with me and keep me alive while I kept the enemies from getting to him with Come and get Me. I also wasn't very tactically... sound in my reasons for doing things. I actually swore off the class, mad at myself for not making it work and repeatedly dying. I understand things a bit better now, but some stuff still irks me with the gaps I have in my knowledge. I don't want to take away from someone else's fun by making them babysit my character and myself via poor choices.
I don't want to take away from someone else's fun by making them babysit my character and myself via poor choices.
That is a laudable goal.
Since AFAIK, potions are still considered spells, you'd still have to make a save. You'd just use the minimum CL for the potion to determine the save DC.
I think that the best way to make Superstition work for you and your party is to communicate and coordinate effectively. Make sure they know your limitations so they aren't wasting spells on you once you're Raging. At the same time, you should be considering delaying on the first turn so you can get any buffs before you enter Rage.
It also means playing smarter in combat. You shouldn't necessarily be charging in to let the BBEG take full attacks on you. Let him come to you. Don't wade into crowds of baddies just because you have the HP to take it.
What works well with Superstition?
Raging Vitality - Any Barbarian should be taking this anyway. Otherwise falling unconscious while Raging is all-but-certain death. This will still make it difficult to heal you since Rage (and Superstition) will still be going, but it will keep you from losing the temporary hit points and dying outright.
Courageous - While there is some disagreement here (notably, in Hero Labs), this weapon ability will add onto your save bonus from Superstition--+1 with a +1 to +3 weapon, +2 with a +4.
I'm pretty sure a Raging Barbarian can't drink potions.
I'm pretty sure a Raging Barbarian can't drink potions.
As far as I know, these are the only limitations while raging:
While in rage, a barbarian cannot use any Charisma-, Dexterity-, or Intelligence-based skills (except Acrobatics, Fly, Intimidate, and Ride) or any ability that requires patience or concentration.
The Drunken Brute can drink potions and alcohol as a move action, and nowhere is it indicated that Barbarians normally can't drink while raging (it is implied that the change is that it takes a move action instead of a standard).
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Human for Supersition Favored Class bonus, Come and Get Me, Beast Totem Greater, Spell Sunder, Strength Surge. Done.
I forget the name of the item but there is an item that lets you turn fatigue into 1d6 non-lethal damage instead of fatigue, so you can rage cycle from a pretty early level.
Superstition is only a problem if you find yourself in need of healing in combat often. Most of the time when I play a martial character there are relatively few buffs thrown my way during combat so the whole "must resist against allied spells" doesn't really come up much. Also don't forget that even if you save successfully against a cure spell it will still heal for half.
Rage cycle fatigue immunity item = cord of stubborn resolve, found in ultimate equipment.
Also pick up a headband of havoc, to increase rage per numbers by +1, and to immediate action rage.
I am currently playing a lvl 7 Invunerable Rager/Urban Barbarian build in PFS
I am utilizing Superstition to great effect, but I have found that in PFS I have to be a bit more selective in when I drop into my (Controlled) Rage, as players at the table are not as aware of what Superstition does and how to account for it with pre-combat prep or early buffs
I am sure in a home game or with regular PFS teammates this is much less of an issue, as they will be much more familiar with how your character works
Rage cycle fatigue immunity item = cord of stubborn resolve, found in ultimate equipment.
Also pick up a headband of havoc, to increase rage per numbers by +1, and to immediate action rage.
Good call
The next time you're playing, pay attention to how many friendly spells care cast on your melee-types during fights (not before the fighter's first action, or after combat). That number is probably 0-1.Exactly, with that "1" coming the rare times when the spellcaster has blown their initiative roll and the melee-types won't wait, or if your character drops below zero and needs emergency healing (in which case, he's not raging anyway).
In other words, when it really matters. The rest of the time, you don't have much to worry about.
Initiative is a d20 roll, which is a huge amount of variation that makes it impossible to be reliable.Forced Saves vs. Beneficial effects in combat is pretty much like SR (which requires actions to raise/lower) which people also caution about, except the really huge Saves that make people excited about Superstitious make the negative side effects worse than most SR.
Superstition can be good, particularly for Humans who put their Favored Class bonus towards it, other Races it's just so-so.
Superstitious does NOT stack with the normal Rage Morale Bonus to Will Saves, which scales itself,
and Will is arguably Barb's main worry re: Magic Saves in the first place, so that much is always wasted.
(you can select the Human FC before you actually pick up Superstitous, albeit you don't see any benefit until you get the Feat)
Dwarves especially can get great Saves vs. Magic (AND Poison) so easily with Steel Soul and a Dwarven Race Trait for a further +1,
that I really don't see a reason why they would also need to get Superstitious.
There's other ways to get builds with great Saves as well (including Re-Rolls), in which case you also don't really need Superstitious itself.
So that comes to it's follow on Feats, like Spell Sunder (which Dwarven Fighters and those with access to Fighter Feats can also gain).
I love Spell Sunder, but don't think every character needs to take Superstitious, and so also don't build every one with Spell Sunder.
It's worthwhile to point out that Barbarian's Sunder CMB is easier to get really high than most Caster's Dispel checks, which is relevant for fighting high tier APL+4+ caster bosses..
Interestingly, I also like the Superstitious ARCHETYPE, at least at mid-high levels where it gives you great things like Blindsense/sight, until upper-mid-levels the benefits it grants are a BIT underwhelming when compared to other Archetypes (which it's incompatable with), although they are still quite useful: Bonus to AC/CMD during Surprise Rounds, Bonus to Init, Lowlight/Darkvision (increasing range if you already have), and Scent (great warning of Invisible foes, normally worth a Rage Power). ... But melee already does great at low levels, so the upper levels are the ones that you should really worry the most about if you plan on playing there, and Scent/Blindsense/Blindsight rock at high levels. The Archetype doesn't actually require taking or particularly synergize with the Superstitous Rage Power.
Just wondering if and how superstition interacts with bardic performance.
Does a raging barb need to save against inspire courage, for example? If so, what would the save DC be? And what about if inspire courage is already active when the rage begins?
If an effect is already active when you begin Raging, Superstitious doesn't do anything.
If a spell/SLA/Su simply does not have a Saving Throw, Superstitious doesn't do anything.
E.g. Enervation has no Saving Throw at all, Superstitious doesn't grant one against it.
It just says you're not considered a 'willing target' and so cannot WAIVE a Saving Throw (for beneficial effects).
'Must make saving throws' does not equate to creating a saving throw that did not exist.
Although Superstitious applies a bonus vs. Spells, SLAs (which basically are spells), and Supernatural abilities,
it only disallows waiving a Save vs. beneficial/'harmless' Spells (and SLAs),
NOT Supernatural abilities such as Channel Energy, Bardic Performance, etc.
Inspire Courage's Morale Bonus vs. Charm and Fear Effects is not going to stack with Superstitious' bonus.
It also does not stack with the normal Rage Morale Bonus to Will Saves, which itself doesn't stack with Superstitious.
IC's competence bonus to attack/damage fully stacks though (except with other competence bonuses).
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Cure Wounds spells are save for half, not save negates. Even if a superstitious barbarian makes his save against them, HE STILL GETS HEALED.
Breath of life and heal are save negates, so those aren't good picks to cast on a raging Superstitious barbarian, but there are plenty of other choices for a would-be in-combat healer to use on a barb who needs that once-in-a-while emergency healing. If you can cast either of the above spells, you can also cast cure critical wounds, and that will ALWAYS heal something.
By the time you need Breath of Life you're probably not raging any more anyway...