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Your mistake is thinking that the maxed out cheese weasel builds that we post about here are the only types of characters who are effective. If you want to make a fighter with good mental stats, go for it! You can easily build a fighter that does 80-90% of the maxed out builds while still having some mental capacity. That's effective, even if it's not the most effective possible.
If you're looking for something that intentionally combines brains and fighting potential, the Lore Warden archetype Fighter jumps out immediately. Specialize in combat maneuvers and get extra skill ranks for intelligence based skills, all of which are class skills for you. And starting at level 7, you'll get combat bonuses every time you successfully id a monster in combat using a knowledge skill. Smart enough for you?
I just marked Fromper's post as a favorite, but feel moved to also post and say, hey, great post, Fromper.
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The builds in these threads use point-buy stats. Although they may vary the points available, the nature of this beast is a zero-sum game. In order to get the highest score in the important stat(s) for your class, you must lower scores that are less vital. And when you do, some people accuse you of somehow 'cheating' or 'min-maxing', and by extension, therefore a bad role-player. The Stormwind Fallacy.
Solve all your problems at a stroke! Roll your stats! Use a generous method, assign the scores you roll where it suits you! Okay, you're likely to put your best stats in those most needed by your class, but you don't have to 'dump' anything!
In our Kingmaker campaign we rolled our stats. I was fairly blessed (for a change) and got 18/15/15/14/11/10. My concept was a duelist who uses an Aldori Dueling Sword two-handed with Power Attack, so I needed her to have at least 13 Str, but any more than 14 would be wasted. I wanted Dex to be my best score, and as high an Int as I could for Canny Defense later on. So that's Str 14, Dex 20 (half-elf bonus) and Int 15. That left 15/11/10 for Con/Wis/Cha. The optimisers would go for Con every time for a front line warrior, but the party didn't have a 'face', and the more I thought about her the more she would suit a high Cha (Rich Parent trait). Sukie ended up with Str 14, Dex 20, Con 11, Int 15, Wis 10, Cha 15.
I've carefully built her to fill her expected role in the party, but there is more to her than meets the eye. If the only thing that mattered was optimisation, then those rolls would have got me a 20 Str barbarian faster than you could say 'cheese'!
When you roll you'll still have choices to make about which stat goes where, but you won't have to think about having yet another Int 7, Wis 7, Cha 7 PC ever again.
you'll get combat bonuses every time you successfully id a monster in combat using a knowledge skill.
Only if you spend a standard action to do it. Which makes it quite a weak ability until level 15, when it becomes a swift action instead.
That's really what's frustrating if you want to play an intelligent or charismatic warlord or dashing swordsman character - almost nothing actually lets you put Int or Cha to use in battle (without being an alchemist or bard or something like that). Even the archetypes that should make it work, Lore Warden and Tactician, don't actually get any decent Int-based battle abilities until level 15, which is way too late in the game. At least Cha has Eldritch Heritage, which does something. Int? Better prestige into Duelist or accept that that Int score won't help you as a martial.
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No offense, but I don't relish the trusting my stats to luck, and am rather incredulous that there's a method generous enough to account for my usual asinine lack of said luck.Solve all your problems at a stroke! Roll your stats! Use a generous method, assign the scores you roll where it suits you! Okay, you're likely to put your best stats in those most needed by your class, but you don't have to 'dump' anything!
Superstitious, eh?
Don't you know that it's bad luck to be superstitious?
No offense, but I don't relish the trusting my stats to luck, and am rather incredulous that there's a method generous enough to account for my usual asinine lack of said luck.Solve all your problems at a stroke! Roll your stats! Use a generous method, assign the scores you roll where it suits you! Okay, you're likely to put your best stats in those most needed by your class, but you don't have to 'dump' anything!
Roll 4d6, re-roll 1 and 2, drop lowest, assign. Even players who cant roll higher than 5 on a d20 get decent stats with that. :P
The only ways I know of that you can physically hurt someone with your Intelligence are:
1) The Prehensile Hair Hex/White Haired Witch
2) Kirin Style
3) Magus can use an Arcana to add Int to hit.
You can also get Int to AC as a Duelist or Kensai.
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However, the Lore Warden thing sounds interesting. It's not quite what I meant, but it sounds like a good middle ground between slashey slashey fighter guy and my hypothetical rain death on things with my mind guy. It's in the advanced guide right? Guess I'll need to pick up that PDF.
That one's actually in the Pathfinder Society Field Guide.
Isn't there a feat to let you add your int bonus to archery? I forget the name of it, but I think it's in APG.
@JBGamer2300
If you were to make the perfect character, regardless of rules, what would it look like?
Isn't there a feat to let you add your int bonus to archery? I forget the name of it, but I think it's in APG.
Focused Shot gives you your Int mod to damage... but only with a single standard action ranged attack. Like Vital Strike, it doesn't work on a full-attack, which is crippling for an archer. (Note that if your bow has a base damage die of 1d8, you need 20 Int before it stops being worse than Vital Strike.) Also, it can't be used if you're not within 30 feet of your target, and doesn't work on attacks of opportunity with the Snap Shot feat chain.
Basically, it has a too narrow a range of effectiveness.
Sage sorcerer. It's an Int-based full caster designed to blast. It does all kinds of other stuff too, but it should work as well as damaging magic ever does.
Any magus does this a lot. Particularly if he dervish dances or uses a rapier with weapon finesse.
You could always try a spellslinger wizard. Not optimal, but looks like it should still be functional.
Arcane archer maybe?
Somebody mentioned duelist. That works, but you do have to qualify.
Alchemist. Those are good at that.
I have tried to resolve the issue in my campaigns by using an array rather than rolling or a point buy, 16-16-14-14-12-10. This gives each character 2 good stats, 2 decent stats and 2 average stats. Yes, it is higher than even a 25 pt buy but my challenge level is equal to it.
Lore Warden with Kirin Strike (and other Kirin feats too, of course).
you'll get combat bonuses every time you successfully id a monster in combat using a knowledge skill.Only if you spend a standard action to do it. Which makes it quite a weak ability until level 15, when it becomes a swift action instead.
There are many times you don't want to attack in the first round as a fighter. Charging in means you get one attack to their full attack, so spending the first round getting combat bonuses is great. Even better? The fool may charge you in its first action. Also, you stay close, which gives the buffers a chance to help you. Lastly, this gives you something useful to do while the Face character tries negotiations.
Having it be a standard action isn't ALWAYS good, of course, but it's not always bad either.
Alchemists by far are the best intelligence based damage dealers. They aren't real casters by any means, but their bombs and splash weapons get an intelligence bonus towards damage, and they have a great number of skills they can invest in. Add in the discoveries and they can control the battlefield.
The stat array and feats that make for a good bomber alchemist also makes for a good archer. Take an elven alchemist and go to town with the bow when you need to target single creatures or are out of bombs.
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I'm not really talking about just a fighter with good mental stats, though that's all well and good and I could totally see myself doing something like that. However, the Lore Warden thing sounds interesting. It's not quite what I meant, but it sounds like a good middle ground between slashey slashey fighter guy and my hypothetical rain death on things with my mind guy. It's in the advanced guide right? Guess I'll need to pick up that PDF.
Here is the mentioned Lore Warden. There are some other archetypes present in the list that lend more towards an intelligent fighter as well, along with prestige classes like the Student of War.
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Guided Hand is another good way to get your Wis working in combat. Cleric can pick it up at level 3, or level 1 if they're human. Also works for an Inquisitor with a level in Cleric (and consider Channeling Scourge for such a character). In theory works for a Paladin, though they don't usually have the Wis to make it worth it.
Focused Shot gives you your Int mod to damage... but only with a single standard action ranged attack. Like Vital Strike, it doesn't work on a full-attack, which is crippling for an archer. (Note that if your bow has a base damage die of 1d8, you need 20 Int before it stops being worse than Vital Strike.) Also, it can't be used if you're not within 30 feet of your target, and doesn't work on attacks of opportunity with the Snap Shot feat chain.
Basically, it has a too narrow a range of effectiveness.
Note to self: house-rule away some of these restrictions.
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What I really want to do in this game is essentially use my character's intellect not merely to outwit my opposition, but to actually tangibly rain down painful death on them with it without having to resort to such vulgarities as physically swinging a big sharp metal stick at them.
I'm assuming that 'sharp metal stick' pretty much includes all weapons. This means we chuck out all martial classes, including Lore Warden and Magus and everything else that will be expected to use a weapon as anything but a desperate, last resort thing. You don't want to be a namby-pamby controller, either. You want to accomplish with your mind what a barbarian does with rage+power attack+sharp metal stick, but you probably want AoE as well. In other words, you want to play a classic blaster.
There is a pretty good amount of munchkin cheese out there on how to make this work, and yes, a much greater amount about how it doesn't work. Unless you're planning on playing with Elite Professional Gamers, there's no reason you can't go with a slightly suboptimal build, and just have fun with it. Will the barbarian do more damage in a round than you? Often, yes. Will he be in the front line getting sharp-metal-stuck in the face while you're sipping tea and lobbing fireballs? Yes.
Duelists add Int to damage, don't they?
They don't. They get Int to AC, that's all.
The Kensai archetype uses Int for initiative, AC, crit confirmation, and as a damage bonus vs flat-footed opponents.
The Kensai is also a caster, and gets those bonuses too late for a fighter to pick them up with a dip.
A ranger has lots of skills, so how smart he is depends mostly on how you play him. A dumb brute who only knows how to climb, swim and swing a sword?? Viable. A cunning warrior who use his guile to outsmart his opponents? Also viable.
You can have a character with Int 10 and still play her as pretty smart. Hell, you can do it even with Int 7, she just won't be very good at math. Personally, I never play characters without at least a 10 in their Int socre, mostly because I'm kinda of addicted to skill ranks.
That said, it's truly a shame that we have so few martial classes who actually benefit from their Int score. Even Lore Warden doesn't make that much use of it, IMHO.
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Duelists add Int to damage, don't they?They don't. They get Int to AC, that's all.
The Kensai archetype uses Int for initiative, AC, crit confirmation, and as a damage bonus vs flat-footed opponents.The Kensai is also a caster, and gets those bonuses too late for a fighter to pick them up with a dip.
The OP was not asking about dips for a fighter, he was asking about damage dealing builds that benefited from high int. The kensai gets far more direct benefit from intelligence during combat than most other classes/archetypes.
Yes, the kensai can cast. Mostly this means self-buffs and arcane mark, saving his few offensive spells for major encounters.
The OP can review the kensai and make his own decision regarding its suitability. I am simply pointing it out as an available option for a high intelligence character.
Gah! How did I not mention the Lore Warden and the Kensai? I like both those.
Anyway, yeah, there's a ton of options. It's just most are archetypes, so you need to know where to look.
Your mistake is thinking that the maxed out cheese weasel builds that we post about here are the only types of characters who are effective.
Maxed out cheese weasel builds. Mind if I borrow that?
Lore Warden with Kirin Strike (and other Kirin feats too, of course).
A buddy of mine is using GM credits in PFS to make the MUCH MORE BROKEN bomber Alchemist with Kirin Strike. I think he does so via a dip in Maneuver Master.
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For all my martial characters intelligence is never a dump stat, but neither is it the highest stat.... Balance is key... 13-14 is usually plenty, but more never hurts. PFS is so much a team effort in the damage department that I try not to worry about it too much. 20 Strength and 7 Intelligence and you sit there watching through most of the fun until it's time to roll initiative...
I just made a dwarf barbarian with these stats:
16 Str
12 dex
16 con
10 int
15 Wis
8 cha
And then at level 4 I was going to put the extra point into Wisdom. Now that's some serious wisdom, and I'm totally happy with my damage and survivability.
Int and Cha on the other hand... You can totally do it, it just sucks because at least in combat Wis helps you with Will saves. Except I really like having 14 Int on a fighter, because otherwise they have abysmal skill points and you can get combat expertise (which I wish wasn't such a neccessary stepping stone for combat manouver feats).
I still find it hard to make a character with good charisma, since unless that's your casting stat, all it does is make your charisma based skills better... with a few exceptions, but still.
In PFS diplomacy is one of the most heavily used skills. Having a decent charisma and a few ranks in the diplomacy skill is never a bad thing.
But you generally only need one person in the group who has it. So a lot of time it can be safe to roll the dice (figuratively) and count on someone else showing up with a Diplomacy guy.