Well since I lack a reliable group and my internet access as just been restored I have been looking for ideas for a character I have had in my head for awhile now. The idea for the character is this character is a Samurai-"esque" type of warrior, a warrior who seeks to join himself and his weapon as one being. In theory the Samurai (swordsaint) class going into duelist would be the way to go. I would have to sacrifice the katana in favor of the wakizashi (not a real problem) because duelist won't allow use of Katana as a precision weapon (which also burns me but that is another topic for another time). I just wish the Kensai wasn't a magus archtype because I love the archtype but dislike having to be a "spell caster" be the melee warrior I love to build.
Thing is that I want to keep this build as "RAW" as possible because there is going to be a Con coming up soon and pathfinder society is going to be there and I would like to be able to play this character there. So... any suggestions?
Note: Please do not take this thread as a rip on any of the mentioned classes because if there is no other practical way of making the character I can deal with that and hope the rp will remove the headaches involved. There is nothing mechanically wrong with any of the above class just my nitpicks with them thematically.
Yar, a Fighter with the...Blade, Light weapon group and EWP: Wakizashi. Probably wanna go either Improved Critical or Keen on the weapon since the Wakizashi is so good for that. You likely want light or medium armor since you're gonna be Dex focused so get some Do-Maru (seems to have the greatest Armor/Max Dex ratio of the Eastern armors) and BAM! you're a "Samurai". Kikko armor is likely more efficient (same ratio, lower cost and ACP) but just doesn't look the part really. Don't get me wrong, it looks pretty cool but it's not very Samurai-y (stereotypically speaking).
You can also be a Samurai 7-esque "Samurai" and dual wield Wakizashis in the most ludicrous manner possible.
Ok so here is a thought then. Since I still have plenty of time to work this out. My initial idea for this build was Fighter 1-6 Feats: Exotic pro (Wakizashi), Dodge, Mobility, Spring Attack, Vital Strike?, filler feats. Then when duelist became available lvling into that for extra precision damage on each strike while working in improved crit (wakizashi) and improving vital strikes and being a mobile "skirmisher"
Valid or is there something that I am overlooking?
It really is to bad you dislike the spell casting so much because as you said Kensai fits this best.
Not just Kensai though but add bladebound because there really is no better class/archetype for the whole "One with your weapon" thing.
So that pretty much leaves fighter (or free hand fighter maybe.) as Barb certainly does not fit, Ranger has no style that fits fighting with one weapon one handed. Paladin? Also seems like a scratch thats for sure. That would be a lot of refluff.
@Doomed Hero: Well then I guess Vital Strike is out for now because I thought the movement and attack where separate actions. Either that or spring attack is out. I really don't want to have to neglect either one because well I should think it should be obvious.
@Stome: Its not that I dislike spell casting. Its more like I do not have the mentality to play a spell casting character because my brain is more wired to physical combat and tactics and such. I was also considering adding some other feats such as improved disarm and Improved Trip into the build as fluff as well as pseudo-denial to "sturdy" foes. Who know's though. As time goes by I may very well go down the route, the Kensai is undeniably a strong option for the Int heavy Magus. I suppose I could still eventually opt out for the duelist later into the progression to pick up some extra Bab as that is important to me. If only the gm's at the Pathfinder society could allow me to drop spellcasting in favor of full bab.
Imma go and read my books again. I own Ultimate Magic, Combat, Advanced Players Guide, and the Beastiary all hardcover. I also own a digital copy of Psionics Unleashed. So Soulknife was one other option I was kinda considering, however, that runs into synergy options or am I just crazy?
ok one question then a pretty good build that play by your rules.
Are you sure you want to go duelist because you're gonna lose 2 feats on that eastern weapon ewp wakizashi and since you can't finesse the wakizashi weapon finesse to get into the class makes a dead feat.
1st level fighter half elf or human
dodge ewp wakizashi improved unarmed combat(fighter bonus)
2 level fighter
crane style
3rd level fighter
mobility
3rd level fighter/1master of many styles hungry ghost monk
you pick up punishing kick for easy reposition and knock down
bonus feat from monk level
crane wing
save bonus act like 2 other feats
3rd level fighter/2nd level monk
crane reposte(monk bonus feat) weapon focus wakizashi
4th level fighter/2nd level monk
retrain improved unarmed combat from fighter bonus feat to weapon finesse
ready to go into duelist fighting defensive takes a -1 to bab in return gets a +6 to ac(including dodge) automatically negates 1 attack a round and gets a counter attack.
A non duelist variant would take EWP katana pick up power attack at 3rd level and weapon spec instead of weapon finesse going up in levels of fighter and since you went monk you don't have to wear armor(although you should)
Its also to bad it has to be PFS legal because a GM could easily allow a sohei monk to flurry with a katana at 6th althoug verboten by RAW.
If you're looking for a Musashi style samurai, you could try Monk (Sohei) 6/Fighter (weapon master) 4. Only problem is it will take 9 levels until your FoB with wakizashi or katana. But until then you won't be bad. SInce this is PFS it's most your career tho...
Alternatively if wielding a wakizashi isn't too important, you could play a Monk (Weapon Adept) with a temple sword.
For so society play, a Ranger or Fighter might be your best bet though.
I lost internet last night because of a weak-sauce snowing (people round here apparently don't know how to drive in the snow even though they should be used to it by now). On the plus side my team won last night. Anywho back down to business.
@proftobe: The Wakizashi is a light weapon and Weapon Finesse works with all light weapons as well as a select few one handed. The only reason I am not going Katana is because it is a one handed weapon but they gave it deadly not finesse. As for the build: Viable options yes. However, I am looking for a fairly straight build not something which requires a bunch of multiclassing/archtyping if I can avoid it. I will give you points though for inspiring a new villain in a game I am planning :D.
@Bertious: After looking at the lore you gave me, I would actually consider that. It isn't quite what I am looking for but it is actually an attractive alternative. Sadly I do not own the book to which this belongs. I don't think I can use it almost alone for that reason. Although please correct me if I am wrong. Also Christmas is just around the corner C:0
@kaisc006: That depends on what you mean by Musashi style. I read up on the Sohei archtype. It isn't bad. I may even opt for that other builds to break the Monk monotony but as for a blade master build I am still on the fence.
@blackbloodtroll: Ok or ok? Nodachi... eh... I am trying to build a "duelist" in the flavor of a Iaijutsu master ala Oriental Adventures. I think that would be completely derailing the idea.
Notes from me: So I decided to actually go back and read the Samurai and Sword Saint archtype. If I had the source for the archtype I might have actually gone for that because it actually gets rid of most of what I hate about the new samurai class. I would still probably be taking some levels in duelist simply for the AC boost because I would like this character to go unarmored if possible to show off just how skilled of a swordsman he is and just how confident with his skills he is. My inspiration for this character is a Kakita duelist for any of you who remember the days of Oriental adventures. For those of you who don't google should work as well.
Having said that, the Aldori Sword Lord doesn't look bad. I even saw a build floating some where which used the named prestige class + Crane style + Duelist levels to fight defensively with no penalties. The reflavoring works and kinda goes my way, and might work if I actually owned the books but again correct me if I am wrong please. My last group at pathfinder society wound up dying because there was no healer in the party and we where one section away from making it to the final round... if that makes any sense. We where playing the "martial arts tournament" adventure. I don't remember the proper name. Our party consisted of a gunslinger (who also happened to be a noob to the game... actually thinking about it both our gm and I where the only ones who actually played at all before this), a wizard, Me (a rogue), and a Samurai. Yah that was entertaining. I wound up going down five times but some how surviving from sheer luck until the very end. But yah Enough "ranting"
@blackbloodtroll: For this build yes. However, if you have advice for a 2 handed oriental build I will still be willing to listen because I love me my oriental builds and finding new ways to play them.
@Wasum: So as long as you can provide the rules to something you can use it? Like off of d20pfrd.com?
@BladeTempest The more I read your responses, the more I wonder why you don't like the Sword Saint Samurai. The katana is predominantly wielded in two hands, so I'm confused from the get go why you would like to wield it in one hand. The only reasoning I could see switching from Samurai is for the classic "no armor wandering swordsman". In which case monks are your best bet.
Do you not like the samurai because you think it's weak? I'd argue it's one of the strongest front liners in the game. People severely underestimate the power of resolve and the order of the ronin second level ability. You will have access to fighter feats, great DPR, strong AC, good skills, and most important the ability to negate conditions and spells which are a fighter's biggest threat. On top of this, challenge morphs you into a BBEG slayer who can actually stand toe to toe with the BBEG.
The Sword Saint does have it's flaws (action economy). But the iajutsu strike holds its own till level 6, then useless till level 10, but afterwards is a great opener against your challenged opponent.
Well lets answer these in the order of which they where first received.
@AndIMustMask: As would I because I don't think they would be Society gm's if they weren't. No my confusion was that I wasn't up to speed on what could and couldn't be used in Society play.
@Nunspa: You bring up some good points on the magus but my problem is the near reliance on those spells for the character to be effective. The build you suggested also gives me ideas for a "mercenary" to put against pc's though so thank you for that :D.
@kasic006: Maybe I didn't convey it clearly in my the "Note" section of my replies. But since I didn't have the source material for SwordSaint I thought that was out of the picture. I was recently informed I was wrong. So after having reread the class and archtype seeing how the sword saint removes most of my beef (not all but the major beef) with the Samurai class I am actually considering that as my build.
I understand your view point about the Monk but for now I simply wish to agree to disagree. Is the Samurai class weak? No. Not mechanically anyways. My beef with the class is they took the European "Knight" tweaked a few things and gave it a new image and called it done. That is just sloppy in my opinion. Mechanically they are, as you have said, one of if not the most powerful front liners in the game and that is mostly due to True Resolve and Last Stand (the Samurai can IGNORE death to a limited effect). That isn't including Challenge (which with Improved Crit, Vital Strike, Power Attack, and other feats made to amplify weapon damage) can put a Samurai's damage per swing through the freaking roof and into outer space. And the order abilities... Oh man the order abilities.
So no the Samurai is not weak mechanically. I also can understand why they did what they did. After all Samurai where the Japanese equivalent of European knights in rank, station, and so forth. But I still feel as though the class warranted more attention that it got. Where this class called anything other than Samurai I would not have an issue with it. But Samurai it is not in my opinion.
For the Ninja levels you would use the Bandit Archetype, allowing you to take all possible actions during a Surprise Round. This also lets you use some eastern weapons, including the Katana.
For your Paladin levels, take the Sword of Valor archetype. Starting at Paladin level 2 you will be able to spend uses of Lay on Hands to act in a surprise round.
Basically, you're the Samurai you see in anime that is just a bit faster than his opponent, and lands the first hit. Several times per day you will be able to charge into combat with your Katana and smash down an enemy before anybody else gets to react. You can choose to smite that enemy if you really want to lay on the hurt, and you can use your ki-pool to gain extra attacks.
@Nunspa post 1: No this build is supposed to be Pathfinder society legal. At least the actual "samurai" character is. Any mention of home games are simply the ideas I am getting from people here for a home game I am thinking about setting up.
@nunspa Post 2: DOUBLE POST MADNESS!!!!111!!1!!!1ONE... Ah hem...
Can you please connect the dots on where you are going with this? I feel as though what you are saying should be obvious but you also seemed to have reversed gears on me so now my head is spinning.
lvl 1: Samurai (Sword Saint): Power Attack
lvl 2: Ninja:
lvl 3: Ninja: Extra ki, Combat trick (Furious Focus)
lvl 4: Samurai (Sword Saint): Ronin Order
lvl 5: Fighter (Weapon Master): Weapon Focus (Katana),
lvl 6: Fighter (Weapon Master): Dodge
lvl 7: Fighter (Weapon Master): Extra Ki, Weapon Master (Katana)
lvl 8: Fighter (Weapon Master): Weapon Specialization (Katana)
From here either continue with weapon master or samurai sword saint. Use ki only to grant additional attacks. You'll have more than enough ki to last scenarios (which normally grant one rest period) and will deal fantastic DPR. In addition, you'll have plenty of skills for out of combat situations.
Also, I'd suggest getting a keen katana asap. This way you'll have a deadly 15-20x2 crit range longer and the improved critical feats are overatted. Why deal debilitating conditions when most opponents will dead after a few slices?
I will resugest the dueling sword and its whole builts (fighter type and prestige class) are really nice, heavy focus on disarm and other dueling style tricks. But would be a light armor build because of the high dex. Also that sword on a kensi/bladebound Magus is freaking sweet! Running one in my girlfriend's campaign, granted it has been slightly home brewed, switched Int caster into spontaneous cha caster (Kensi removes all RAW usage of the book stuff in a magus) and changed anything class wise to be Cha based. Kind the opposite of the alternate built for sorcerer where you use Int or Wis and change class stuff to either. Sorry, point is Magus works well, bit without spells, Aldorie Duelingsword fighter might be best if not Sword Saint veriant Samurai. Hope it helps.
I really need to learn to get to sleep before 00:00 (gmt -6).
@kasic006: Build bookmarked. Although the character is most definitely not going to be swiging too much sake any time soon.
@Jack Rift: Also noted. I just want to make sure that you also understand that I don't dislike the magus because it uses spells. I just don't want to use it when I am making a melee centric build (why does a fighter who has spent every waking moment of his life practicing with his greatsword suddenly know fireball? It's an issue that I have).
I don't know how you guys did it though. But I think I am going to go with Samurai (Sword Saint) at least to start. Somehow this thread made me do a 150 degree turn. WTH?
Just wondering but did you consider being an elf and using a ln eleven curved blade? No extra feat for EWP and it is a finesse weapon so duelist should still work.
Another thought ... have you looked at the weaponmaster archetype?
