But you have to remember that even A and B cups can get in the way of combat and cause armour to fit wrong.Strangely, most fantasy breastplates for women. If it actually is a realistic breastplate design is normally based on Parade Armour. Normally if a woman went into battle she would Bind her chest.
And you do realize that weapons like FFVII's Buster Sword did exist. Though they were normally used as anti-cavalry blades.
On-Topic: if you really don't like the image as was said hardware them away.
Binding of a woman's breasts was necessarily warrior woman mantra.
Amazons were rumored to have cut off one breast because it got in the way of their Bow.
There are a lot of rumors about women and breasts and combat.
How many women in combat do you believe actually had large, pendulous breasts?
1) silicon wasn't invented.
2) fat ladies would last in combat as long as fat men.
3) the RARE big breasted warrior woman that is recorded in history, rode into combat topless, because she thought it to be a moral booster for her army.
out of shape MEN have b cups
out of shape MEN have b cups
His name...was Robert Paulsen.
His name was Robert Paulsen.His name
was Robert Paulsen.
Heh... a bunch of geek guys pontificating on the amazon warrior's breast issues is enough to give me an all-day chuckle...
Women athletes tend to wear "bindings" (now mostly known as "sports bras") not because their boobies get in the way, but because the bouncing around that hypnotizes men so thoroughly actually HURTS after a while. So they tend to try to stop it. There really is very little need for breastplates with boob holders built in. Most women could wear a breastplate sized for them with the same design as one for a man. Even women with larger than normal breasts.
And the whole thing about bow-shooting amazons hacking off a breast is one of the most ridiculed "historical facts" in the history of ... well, history. Women of various breast sizes have competed for generations in archery events without any noticeable breast issues.
This reminds me of the huge uproar a few decades ago when an aging golf superstar publicly said that women can't play golf as well as men because their boobs get in the way...
The bottom line is that all this shows is what boobs men are when it comes to boobs.
Heh, thats what I was saying, the boob thing is a myth
@Lamontius: "The Haversack is the only acceptable Man-Purse!"- WWII-Era Marines.
On-Topic: Backpacks can come in a variety of styles especially when you look throughout history.
Might I suggest you research the old Napoleonic Era Holster Pack. It makes modern Military Ruck Sacks look primitive. And it hardly moved when you moved. Though that could be do to it having 15+ straps.
You've piqued my curiosity, but my google-fu is weak. Do you know of any sites that might have images or descriptions of these packs?
Thanks!
Wow this thread got off track for a bit. I do like the Haversack as a satchel thing (as I had mentioned before).
I have seen the French Holster Pack and there are kinda cool.
Most of my characters first purchases is a handy haversack..great for scrolls, tools, and various alchemical devices....until then I also hate the picture of a cumbersome backpack, so they usually buy two masterwork satchels each with half the carrying capcity of an actual mw pack....it works along with many belt pouches for the quick small items.
Wow this thread got off track for a bit. I do like the Haversack as a satchel thing (as I had mentioned before).
Hee. I felt oddly compelled to defend bosoms as non-problematic. Sorry about that. *Embarassed emoticon goes here*
I have seen the French Holster Pack and there are kinda cool.
Do you know of a place where one might witness such a bag? And if you do, could you possibly link to it?
How much stuff do your characters actually stuff into their backpacks? With the advent of unlimited cantrips, so long as your wizard is alive, how much stuff do you ACTUALLY need?
For example; I have a player in my game who said she wanted to be prepared for anything and she really likes detailing her gear, so I said have at it. She filled up a backpack AND spilled over into the pack mule with everything from sunrods to bags of chalk dust to a shovel.
So far in my game, even when they were stuck in the wilds with too little food and water, she's consulted her gear for an item to use outside weapons and armor exactly... once. She needed a shovel to dig a grave for a dead dog and didn't want to use cantrips and a digging stick b/cause it would've taken too long.
Now before I'm bombarded with "she's doing it wrong" or "that's the exception" let me just say that this is the case with most everyone in my games over the past six campaigns and it's never been an issue, nor has it hindered anyone's enjoyment. OTHER issues have crippled the fun in my games, but not gear.
So I come back to my humble monk/bard, with a satchel, a couple pouches, a scimitar and the clothes on her back. What more could she need?
...except a sports bra? Ka-Blam!
Mark, I am too old-school. I still use a standard list of items for my characters to carry based on their role that goes back decades (updated from time to time).
So my skill-monkeys still carry all sorts of odds and ends from fishhooks to paper and ink. Just about every one of my characters carries ropes, caltrops, tindertwigs, etc..
My bow-making druid also carries around supplies to make bows and arrows with, but now she keeps most of that in her efficient quiver...
It's amazing what you can do with a simple scroll case.
Oh, I need a shelter? Survival check. Oh, I want to use a craft skill? Time to go shopping and hole up in town. Oh, I'm in the midst of a dungeon and I need arrows? Pile goblin bodies in front of the door for the next 11 minutes while I use brute strength, Mending and Prestidigitation to clean the ones in 'em...
I hear you AD; I too am old school and still have the "ADV Pack" on notebook paper in a protective sleeve that I made in 2e. But when have I EVER used chalk to write on a wall (Arcane Mark), cooking gear (sharpened stick or spear to spit animal on to roast) or a bag of marbles (the one time I could've used this, I had a grease spell instead)?
Now I'm not saying certain things like rope, a good crowbar or perhaps a towel aren't absolutely necessary for an adventurer, far from it. I'm just saying that if you pare down to what you HONESTLY need and use, I don't know that your backpack will be that full.
Sgt. Elias from Platoon: "don't need this...or this...keeping this will get you shot..."
Wow this thread got off track for a bit. I do like the Haversack as a satchel thing (as I had mentioned before).Hee. I felt oddly compelled to defend bosoms as non-problematic. Sorry about that. *Embarassed emoticon goes here*
I have seen the French Holster Pack and there are kinda cool.Do you know of a place where one might witness such a bag? And if you do, could you possibly link to it?
My opponent was strong but my search fu was stronger:
Classical Image of Soldier with Pack
Hope that helps!!
Those are standard kit packs.
Holster Packs are more like Modern MOLLE gear. They weren't used by most troops only the Heavy Infantry had them.
It is tight around the Thighs, Chest, Back, & Upper-Arms. The Straps hold everything from Canteens to your Bayonet/Combat knife.
Strangely I can find pictures of the pieces but not as a whole...
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
Definitely can't travel without a towel...
Definitely can't travel without a towel...
YES!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Mark, I may not be utilizing the magical abilities of my characters as much as I could just due to old habits. But I still like it better that way. I enjoy using non-magical items in creative ways.
Also, if I can use a mundane item to duplicate the effect of a spell of level 1 or higher, I will usually treat that as a resource management issue. I work hard to conserve my spellcasters spells, to the point that I have gone entire sessions without my druid or witch casting a single spell, but using non-magical means to accomplish their goals.
Just some examples of what my characters have pulled out of their backpacks in recent campaigns:
Plaster - used to make copies of a royal seal for the purpose of counterfeiting royal messages.
Fishhook & line - used along with a small bell to create a trip-line to warn of intruders.
Net - Used to create a camouflage cover for the party's supplies while they investigated a bandit lair.
Bag of marbles - Used a few marbles to create a diversion to lure guards away from a door.
Hammer and pitons - Used to jam a door closed to provide a few rounds of retreat (not to mention using the same to climb walls).
Firecrackers - Used along with the "spark" cantrip and smokesticks to create a diversion. (I seem to create a lot of diversions...)
I could go on. Many of these things could well have been accomplished by using magic, but doing so would have used up a spell slot I felt was better suited for, well, combat probably. :)
I like your solution to that AD.
i really need to see this elusive holster pack
I can't find a good picture... It is ticking me off...
how about ANY picture?
Can't find any pictures anymore...
Basically, It is a modified Kit Pack that had straps across the body like a Parachute Harness and had small satchels and pouches that attached to the Straps. Similar to modern ALICE/MOLLE gear.
Alice sucks. WORST EPISODE EVER!
MOLLE is a lot better, and they really aren't that similar. (maybe in theory, but definitely not in practice)
I agree.
I started reading this thread from post #1 and was intrigued on the topic, but I must say I got confused when the talk shifted from packs to marshmallows. I felt like I stepped into almost every anime set in a high school ever made or will ever be made. Now, I do have my preferences when it comes to...aforementioned things, but this is too much. Thread, I ask you: WTF happened here? Leather bag =/= breasts. I'm going to sidle away now into the internet void. goodbye all. *blush*
I can't find a good picture... It is ticking me off...
Is the bags and stuff on this figure what you are talking about?
thats just looks like a haversack with some satchels
I can't find a good picture... It is ticking me off...Is the bags and stuff on this figure what you are talking about?
Close but this pack was larger and had straps that went around the thighs a strap going horizontally across the Chest and waist. It was notorious for taking 30 minutes just to put on everyday and normally required 2 soldiers to aid each other.
Meh, maybe I can sketch one soon... I have dealt with them before as they were used by some Confederate Units during the Civil War. Especially some of the small militia units from Missouri. Do to the weight of the gear they had to carry. Think of it as a Masterwork Backpack combined with Muleback Chords or that Ant Haul Belt from Ultimate Equipment.
But you have to remember that even A and B cups can get in the way of combat and cause armour to fit wrong.Strangely, most fantasy breastplates for women. If it actually is a realistic breastplate design is normally based on Parade Armour. Normally if a woman went into battle she would Bind her chest.
And you do realize that weapons like FFVII's Buster Sword did exist. Though they were normally used as anti-cavalry blades.
On-Topic: if you really don't like the image as was said hardware them away.
Binding of a woman's breasts was necessarily warrior woman mantra.
Amazons were rumored to have cut off one breast because it got in the way of their Bow.
There are a lot of rumors about women and breasts and combat.
How many women in combat do you believe actually had large, pendulous breasts?
1) silicon wasn't invented.
2) fat ladies would last in combat as long as fat men.
3) the RARE big breasted warrior woman that is recorded in history, rode into combat topless, because she thought it to be a moral booster for her army.
Shoulders, hips, elbows, and waists can cause armour to fit wrong. Breasts of any size are more flexible than that, because they have no bones. Fighting women wore normal breastplates, and not boob plate. And the story about amazons cutting off their boobs was most likely invented by misogynistic Greeks.
As for backpacks and haversacks, I think it makes no sense that getting something from a backpack is only a move action. It should be a full round action. Getting stuff as a move action should be only for getting stuff from satchels or your belt.
So that would mean are for carrying the big loads, while satchels have a pretty small limit to how much can be put into them. The Handy Haversack would be a satchel (whereas other bags of holding would probably be backpacks or something), and once you've got a Handy Haversack, you don't really need a backpack anymore. Unless you want to carry more crap than fits in the haversack.
|
Yeah but the haversack can't hold enough, 80 lbs will not cover your coin weight for long.
I guess nothing stops you from putting bags of holding into your haversack.
A number of spells and magic items utilize extradimensional spaces, such as rope trick, a bag of holding, a handy haversack, and a portable hole. These spells and magic items create a tiny pocket space that does not exist in any dimension. Such items do not function, however, inside another extradimensional space. If placed inside such a space, they cease to function until removed from the extradimensional space. For example, if a bag of holding is brought into a rope trick, the contents of the bag of holding become inaccessible until the bag of holding is taken outside the rope trick. The only exception to this is when a bag of holding and a portable hole interact, forming a rift to the Astral Plane, as noted in their descriptions.
Coin weight?...Hmmm....haven't had that "problem" during my current campaign...lol...GM is being Scrooge McDuck with the coins..but i see your point in a "normal" campaign...Now where is that big Barbarian? I have a couple of large sacks he needs to carry...
|
|
Oh, I need a shelter? Survival check. Oh, I want to use a craft skill? Time to go shopping and hole up in town. Oh, I'm in the midst of a dungeon and I need arrows? Pile goblin bodies in front of the door for the next 11 minutes while I use brute strength, Mending and Prestidigitation to clean the ones in 'em...
I hear you AD; I too am old school and still have the "ADV Pack" on notebook paper in a protective sleeve that I made in 2e. But when have I EVER used chalk to write on a wall (Arcane Mark), cooking gear (sharpened stick or spear to spit animal on to roast) or a bag of marbles (the one time I could've used this, I had a grease spell instead)?
Now I'm not saying certain things like rope, a good crowbar or perhaps a towel aren't absolutely necessary for an adventurer, far from it. I'm just saying that if you pare down to what you HONESTLY need and use, I don't know that your backpack will be that full.
Sgt. Elias from Platoon: "don't need this...or this...keeping this will get you shot..."
Spoken i take it as one that has never tried such things. do a survival week, gear matters far more than you think especially shelter and cooking
haversack as a tattoo maby?
Handy Haversacks can hold 120 lbs total.
Coin Weight: What a Bag of Holding inside the Handy Haversack is for.
In 1e if you did that you created a dimensional rift that destroyed reality. That doesn't happen anymore??
It only happens if a Bag Of Holding and a Portable Hole interact.
There's actually very little sexual dimorphism between humans. Broad hips and long hair in women, broad shoulders and facial hair in men? Things like that are cultural, not anatomical.
Breasts and genitalia are about it really.
How did we get back onto that subject?
And those two things do require different needs between Genders.
There's actually very little sexual dimorphism between humans. Broad hips and long hair in women, broad shoulders and facial hair in men? Things like that are cultural, not anatomical.
Breasts and genitalia are about it really.
Do you think you can grow broad hips or broad shoulders the way you can grow long hair?
Sexual dimorphism in humans basically adds up to: genitalia, hips, breasts, body hair (not just facial), shoulders, jaw, subcutaneous fat, muscle mass, and height.
However, even between women, height, hips, shoulders, etc can vary a lot, and that will have a very serious impact on how well armour fits (wasn't that the original discussion?). Same thing for men.
Breast size has a far smaller impact, because they're more flexible and don't have bones or joints. Very large breasted women will of course need a bit more room, but the same is true of anyone with a large belly.
The differences in shoulder size, hip size and muscle mass within a gender is more variable than the average differences between genders.
Or, to put it another way, armor has to be made in sizes that fit enough different male body shapes that virtually any female can find male armor that would fit. The army's armorer would have no more serious issues armoring females using the same techniques already in place for men.
I was watching a show where they had some armor being appraised. It was breastplate armor that was used by Napoleon's cavalry forces (yep, they wore breastplates even after guns were widely in use). The inside of the armor had about an inch long bolt sticking through which was holding a decorative rank insignia on the outside. The guy looking at the armor asked the expert how it could possibly be actual armor used in battle with such long protruding (and pointed) bolts sticking directly into the wearer's chest.
The expert said that there was so much padding and material, sometimes including chain mail, that the pointy end of the bolt, which was easily protruding an inch from the inside of the armor, would not even be close to the wearer's skin when worn properly.
With that much room for padding and additional protection, even Dolly Parton could wear a breastplate designed for a man.
...they didn't like, file off the pointy bits, anyway?
I mean, what if the breastplate took a particularly nasty hit, couldn't the pointy bit get driven directly into the wearer's chest?
If it were my armor, I probably would have, but no, they did not, and the expert was insistent that it posed no risk to the wearer. Apparently when he says there is a lot of padding and material, he means a LOT of padding and material. I suppose anything that hit the wearer hard enough to compress all that padding and drive the bolt into the chest would probably have already crushed the wearer.