I can see how Light and Dark could be useful. It's an immediate action, so if you're up against an evil cleric who decides to channel at you, NOPE SORRY, I'M A WAYANG.
After you nail down the Samsarans, what do you think of the tengu?
I do have this to say about the main Samsaran in the ARG: she's purrrdy~
RPG Superstar 2014 Top 16
|
Hey, Cartman - you missed a really important feat for the goblin entry.
Roll With It (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/feats/combat-feats/roll-with-it-combat-goblin) is one of the best 2 or 3 feats in the whole of pathfinder.
It basically lets you negate damage with an acrobatics check _and_ negate melee full-attacks, with easy pre-reqs. It is incredibly good for any ranged character, and very good for any melee character.
-Cross
I've added that feat along with three others that I also missed because they weren't on the Goblins page on d20pfsrd.com (which was probably my own fault, LOL). I mentioned that I doubt many player characters will want to spend a feat slot on it, but I'll be throwing it onto every goblin NPC I send at my players, because it's AWESOME!
Will you be doing tengu next?
Great guide.
Constructive feedback:
The Wanderer monk Archetype is listed several times for non-human races, including Aasimar, when this Archetype is intended for human only. I think the jury is still out on whether or not half-orcs and half elves can take human only Archetypes, so I am more concerned about it showing for Aasimar.
|
RPG Superstar 2014 Top 16
|
Great guide.
Constructive feedback:
The Wanderer monk Archetype is listed several times for non-human races, including Aasimar, when this Archetype is intended for human only. I think the jury is still out on whether or not half-orcs and half elves can take human only Archetypes, so I am more concerned about it showing for Aasimar.
I list it for Aasimar because there is an alternate racial trait that allows an Aasimar to be treated as a human instead of an outsider, and it SHOULD qualify them for the racial archetype. This won't work in PFS, but in other games should be allowable.
I'll edit right now to make that more clear.
I list it for Aasimar because there is an alternate racial trait that allows an Aasimar to be treated as a human instead of an outsider, and it SHOULD qualify them for the racial archetype. This won't work in PFS, but in other games should be allowable.I'll edit right now to make that more clear.
Thank you. I forgot about that trait.
I really like the suggestions and such for the samsaran, but there's something that needs to be clarified. Mystic past life lets you add spells to your spell list for your class. If the spells already exist, even as a higher level on our spell list than another, then it doesn't meet the requirements. So that sorcerer suggestion needs to be slightly edited.
But otherwise, spot on! I always loved them for oracle, but now I see witch is even nastier for them.
|
Treating so many new races in so little time is IMPRESSIVE. You are one of the unsung heroes of PFRPG. Doubly so because you are so open to the ideas posted on this thread.
I would like for the Kitsune to be done next ;-)
PS : after playing with it, I believe that the Human alternate racial trait Silver Tongued should be blue for the party face, because of both the bonuses AND the 3 steps max change for Diplomacy. A Human party face who does not take this is just not doing his part. Still red for anybody else.
|
RPG Superstar 2014 Top 16
|
I really like the suggestions and such for the samsaran, but there's something that needs to be clarified. Mystic past life lets you add spells to your spell list for your class. If the spells already exist, even as a higher level on our spell list than another, then it doesn't meet the requirements. So that sorcerer suggestion needs to be slightly edited.
But otherwise, spot on! I always loved them for oracle, but now I see witch is even nastier for them.
Actually, James Jacobs has confirmed that you can take spells which are on your spell list as a lower-level spell:
See answer #4 hereI for one take James's responses as close to the "correct" interpretation as you can get without an official FAQ, so for me his word is good enough. Others disagree, but my guide is written assuming his answers are the right answers.
Edit: It's important to note, though, that you can only take spells from ONE other class with Mystic Past Life, so if you do decide to go for early access to haste, you have to pick spells from the Summoner list for all your other choices. For a Witch, this is probably still the best option, though.
O.O Wow! Shows what I know! That is scary to know that they actually addressed it. I am so glad to know that they did, though, cause that one is such a possibly confusing one for rulings.
Hm... there don't seem to be any sky-blue Sorcs or Wizards. So sad.
|
RPG Superstar 2014 Top 16
|
Hm... there don't seem to be any sky-blue Sorcs or Wizards. So sad.
Don't forget, I'm focusing on the races here, not the classes. The fact that there are no sky blue for some classes simply means that most races are flexible enough to be good at several different classes. Any sky blue classes for a specific race simply means that that class is by far the best for that specific race. :)
I think he said he was going to work on tengu over the weekend.
If you're taking requests, cartmanbeck, would you mind taking a crack at Ifrits next?
Well I am responding to this thread LATE. but let us see what there is to see.
Sure go ahead and use the jinx feats, you have my permission to use anything I post. Altho I think I missed one, Ill have to double check.
Android barbarian. Alright fair enough! Keep it red.
I can understand your point about the gunslinger, it is a race guide :)
I dunno why I am so biased against the mysterious stranger, I guess it is mostly to do with the perceived lack of damage that the Mysterious stranger can deal, having to spend a grit point and a swift to equal pistolero/musket master. Guns deal static damage (ie no dex/str bonus like almost every other weapon) and you cannot really boost it without a huge expendure. But I will leave that as my opinion :)
I reaally have to ask about the hateful rager again. I just cant see the benefits/draw/usefulness of it at ALL. Could you just explain your thinking on it a bit more?
Here is what I posted above on it again, for reference.
4. Half-orc, racial archetypes, hateful rager, I dunno about this archetype, I just cant see the benefits of it. You actually give up A LOT more than just a round of rage every level and the benefits you gain just don’t seem to be worth it or even that powerful. Lets go through it step by step. 1 you loose a round of rage every level (and why someone who is fostering a deep, burning hatred that they channel into a raw fury and unleash against their enemies gets less rage is beyond me), 2 you lose out your first rage power and every third rage power to gain a favored enemy (this is two-fold, because you loose your first rage power, you cant actually get rage powers until level 4 and cannot select the extra rage power feat until level 5, and you get less rage powers overall, 2 instead of 3 by 6th level, 3 instead of 5 at 10th level, and 6 instead of 10 at 20th level, a fairly significant drop). 3 when you rage, you actually have chances to lose control of your PC if you are fighting in an encounter with your favored enemy, ie you run past the orcs in front of you to get to the hated human archer in the back, possibly eating AoO’s on the way or, even worse, leaving your party behind to get surrounded and failing as a meatshield. Generally effects that make you lose control are not well recieved. 4 When you DO kill a favored enemy, you get a bonus rage round, yay! Sadly it goes away when you finish raging, so if it was the last enemy, it was useless, if you manage to ragecycle, it is useless and you only gave up being unable to be flanked to get it (which would be very useful if you are forced to run into a crowd like above). In short as long as there are more guys around you get to keep the minor benefit temporarily, so situational at best. 5 At 9th level you can add half of your favored enemy bonus to your power DCs. What powers can you use this with? Well there 8 of them, 2 useful ones (terrifying howl and intimidating glare) and 3 flavorful ones (hurling, ground breaker and energy eruption). So if you want to build an intimidating build, you can add +2 to the DC against 2 types of targets till level 13! Just remember you get less rage powers from above and all it cost you was +1 dodge bonus against traps, so small gain for small loss. The real kicker is that it excludes you from taking some archetypes like the elemental kin, superstitious or the true primitive archetypes.
So lets recap, you gain favored enemy, situational rage rounds and a minor boost to a select few rage powers. What do you lose? Rage rounds, 1st rage power, occasional rage powers, periodic control of your PC, immunity to flanking, +1 trapsense and restricted ability to multiclass because of loss of trapsense. So I just cant see the uses of the class, and the more I look at it, the worse it seems BUT I haven’t actually played the class, so maybe someone who has can shed some light on its strengths?
I missed the Jinxed spell metamagic feat for the halfling jinx feats so add this in there as well :)
Jinxed Spell. Yellow. Metamagic feat. Requires 2 metamagic feats. Without looking at the prerequisites, this one is quite decent and similar to the malicious eye feat. It rides a spell and bypasses the required save which is nice. As long as you were taking the two metamagic feats anyways and can tolerate a level bump AND have room for the feat you are good. I would say situational mostly because of what it takes to get it and the added need of investing more into other jinx feats to get the most benefit out of it.
It looks good so far and I will have to read the new stuff you put in there!
Quick thing, I think the value of roll with it to be much higher and is often a first round pick when choosing feats. The staggered condition really hurts it tho... Guess green is a good rating for it ^-^
|
RPG Superstar 2014 Top 16
|
Well I am responding to this thread LATE. but let us see what there is to see.
Sure go ahead and use the jinx feats, you have my permission to use anything I post. Altho I think I missed one, Ill have to double check.Android barbarian. Alright fair enough! Keep it red.
I can understand your point about the gunslinger, it is a race guide :)
I dunno why I am so biased against the mysterious stranger, I guess it is mostly to do with the perceived lack of damage that the Mysterious stranger can deal, having to spend a grit point and a swift to equal pistolero/musket master. Guns deal static damage (ie no dex/str bonus like almost every other weapon) and you cannot really boost it without a huge expendure. But I will leave that as my opinion :)I reaally have to ask about the hateful rager again. I just cant see the benefits/draw/usefulness of it at ALL. Could you just explain your thinking on it a bit more?
Here is what I posted above on it again, for reference.
** spoiler omitted **...
On Hateful Rager: I agree with a lot of what you're saying, but I still think it's a flavorful archetype with a lot of decent benefits, and the favored class bonus for the half-orc makes up for lost rage rounds, so I'm leaving it green but I toned down the description of it, pointing out the possibility of losing control mid-battle. :-D
I think if you liked the wayang, your gonna dig the monkey goblin. "hint for the same reason"
Your guide doesn't have kobolds or fetchlings!! O:<
He hasn't gotten to kayal yet, and he's waiting to do kobolds until Kobolds of Golarion comes out next month.
Your guide doesn't have kobolds or fetchlings!! O:<Don't worry, I'll get to them! Fetchlings are on the list after Kitsune.
maybe monkey goblins some time...
Awesome guide, I really liked the damphir section. I would love to see merfolk on the list.
|
RPG Superstar 2014 Top 16
|
Thank you very much sir! Two minor points:
1. Vulpine Pounce requires a +10 BA ability so whilst it might be relatively easy to acquire, it won't be until the character is quite high level.
2. Fast Shifter replaces Kitsune Magic, which requires 11+ Charisma, if someone has a Kitsune Character with less than 11 Charisma (Yes, WHY?) then there is nothing to lose by taking Fast ShifterBut as said well done and thank you.
I've made notes of both of your suggestions, and made Fast Shifter a combo Red/Orange instead of plain Red.
Only think I have noticed so far.
The Witch favored class bonus that gives a spell to your familiar. It is the bonus to several races and you have a different color for each lol.
You start giving it a blue, and then it goes green, then orange, and finally red by the time you reach goblins lol.
I agree its a trap favored class bonus. You can spend gold to get spells for your familiar.
I would change all the races that get that bonus to Red.
I mentioned a good use for the wayang's Light and Dark ability earlier, but I suppose you missed it. The main cool thing is, it's an immediate action, which I'm pretty sure can be done whenever you feel like it. So, if you're up against something that's channeling negative energy at you, LOLNOPE I'M A WAYANG. Insta-switch your energy affinity and watch yourself heal.
|
|
I mentioned a good use for the wayang's Light and Dark ability earlier, but I suppose you missed it. The main cool thing is, it's an immediate action, which I'm pretty sure can be done whenever you feel like it. So, if you're up against something that's channeling negative energy at you, LOLNOPE I'M A WAYANG. Insta-switch your energy affinity and watch yourself heal.
If he is channeling negative energy at you as a living being, then it is a channeling to harm. Switching through Light and Dark will keep you from being harmed, but you will NOT heal.
A Kitsune Wordcasting sorcerer could be ridiculously effective; the words of power system makes it very easy to have most of your wordspells take advantage of school bonuses.
Alrightie, lets have a look-see.
Tengu. Alternate Race Traits. you misspelled .
Why yes, we goblins be insane little creatures! Ehehehehe!!
Oversized ears. There is a goblin only trait called Big Ears that grants you +2 on perception checks and when combined with oversized ears, you start with +6 to perception before skills. If you have perception as a class skill you get +10 perception at level 1 for a trait and a skill point. Goblins are incredibly perceptive...
And sneaky. With small size (+4), skilled (+4) and your racial dex bonus (+2) you start out with +10 to sneak.
A quick note about the barbarian (and especially the feral rager) you can get the Animal Fury rage power. This grants you a bite every time you maintain a grapple, effectively doubling your bite damage.
A quick note about the Fire Bomber alchemist. You get access to elemental body a level early, thrus potionable. You can also combine it with eternal potion to become a fire elemental permanently!
A goblin sorcerer makes so much more sense than a wizard one. Sad that it doesn't translate that way mechanically. (Picture books? I mean really?)
I assume you missed this (or forgot) but goblins have 4 exclusive discoveries. Im going to do a quick writeup for them :)
-----------------
Fire Brand. Blue. This may seem lackluster at first but once you realize its applications it is actually quite nice. Firstly, if you want to hold a charge and dont want to accidentally set it off prematurely you can wear something flammable like a silk glove. When you want to deliver the touch attack, its a swift action to burn the glove off and away you go. Secondly it works great with feral mutagen. Over the corse of 3 turns you steadily increase the damage you do, and who dosen't like the image of a self-immolating goblin charging down a foe with fire coming out of its mouth? It is a lot more feasible with your favoured class bonus/Fire Heart feat granting fire resistance. Do note that you cannot combine this with Vivisectionist as that replaces your bombs.
Rag Doll Mutagen. Yellow. This grants you 3 bonuses when you use a mutagen. A bonus to escape artist checks, a bonus to squeezing and a bonus to falling. While nice, none of these are actually all that helpful unless you are building for it. I guess counting as a diminutive creature for squeezing is kinda neat.
Rocket Bomb. Sky Blue. This is my favorite discovery. This trades direct hits for extra range and AOE. Your range goes up to 50 feet meaning you could hit someone 250 feet away. This also increases your radius to 20 feet meaning a giant 40 foot explosion. While this is nice with effects like grease bomb or tanglefoot bomb its real benefit comes with the cloud bomb discoveries. A 40 foot stinking cloud or inferno cloud? Yes please! Its biggest drawback comes from not being usable with fast bombs so only 1 a round.
Scrap Bomb. Green. This simply adds extra damage in the form of bleed. 1 for each d6. Simple, effective and stacks with everything. A good way to add damage to a frost bomb or such if you have the discovery to spare.
-----------------
Tengu. Exotic weapon training. Nice! I never noticed that before! I will definitely have to check that out!
Kitsune Gunslinger
(though I’ve been told vehemently that the archetype is beyond weak by some people, I don’t see it that way! :-P)
Ha! I imagine I am one of those? ;P
Ohhh I saw what you wrote on the Kitsune sorcerer. I like :DMight it be worth mentioning that Kitsunes can take their feats at any time that they could get a feat? This means as a fighter bonus feat, a wizard bonus metamagic feat or even one of those limited feat selection classes (think cavalier tactician for instance).
You might want to include the Mystic Theurge prestige class as an honourable mention for the Samsarian due to having +2 to both int and wis (kinda like you did for for the dwarf). Your thoughts?
After reading the Wayang section I was reminded of a neat combo I had heard about a while ago. Essentially you need a race that can see in supernatural darkness (like the tiefling, I dont know about others), a smokestick and be a rogue. You chuck the smokestick, are able to see through it and get a sneak attack bonzi! I dont really remember the details but I believe it was something like that. Shrug. It might have been a fetchling...
Great so far! As always I am enjoying it immensely and hope you find use in my posts!
Would you be up to doing a Grippli soon?
|
RPG Superstar 2014 Top 16
|
Alrightie, lets have a look-see.
Tengu. Alternate Race Traits. you misspelled .Why yes, we goblins be insane little creatures! Ehehehehe!!
Oversized ears. There is a goblin only trait called Big Ears that grants you +2 on perception checks and when combined with oversized ears, you start with +6 to perception before skills. If you have perception as a class skill you get +10 perception at level 1 for a trait and a skill point. Goblins are incredibly perceptive...
And sneaky. With small size (+4), skilled (+4) and your racial dex bonus (+2) you start out with +10 to sneak.
A quick note about the barbarian (and especially the feral rager) you can get the Animal Fury rage power. This grants you a bite every time you maintain a grapple, effectively doubling your bite damage.
A quick note about the Fire Bomber alchemist. You get access to elemental body a level early, thrus potionable. You can also combine it with eternal potion to become a fire elemental permanently!
A goblin sorcerer makes so much more sense than a wizard one. Sad that it doesn't translate that way mechanically. (Picture books? I mean really?)I assume you missed this (or forgot) but goblins have 4 exclusive discoveries. Im going to do a quick writeup for them :)
-----------------
Fire Brand. Blue. This may seem lackluster at first but once you realize its applications it is actually quite nice. Firstly, if you want to hold a charge and dont want to accidentally set it off prematurely you can wear something flammable like a silk glove. When you want to deliver the touch attack, its a swift action to burn the glove off and away you go. Secondly it works great with feral mutagen. Over the corse of 3 turns you steadily increase the damage you do, and who dosen't like the image of a self-immolating goblin charging down a foe with fire coming out of its mouth? It is a lot more...
Thanks as always, Gobo! I put in those quick notes, and I copy-pasted your descriptions for those goblin-specific discoveries and just edited them a bit for content.
The tengu exotic weapon thing is just awesome, it's something that people gloss over but can be super useful.
I hadn't thought about the strange kitsune feat thing, I'll try to figure out a good place to mention that.
I will add a note about the Mystic Theurge for samsarans later today if I can remember to do so.
That smokestick combo can be done even better... you can be the ultimate sneak attacking sniper if you dip a single level of Oracle of Waves and pick the Water Sight discovery. Then you can just cast obscuring mist around yourself at the beginning of every battle (you start with like 5 or 6 casts per day for having just the one Oracle level) and then snipe from inside, getting sneak damage on every attack because no one else can see you!!!
|
RPG Superstar 2014 Top 16
|
A Kitsune Wordcasting sorcerer could be ridiculously effective; the words of power system makes it very easy to have most of your wordspells take advantage of school bonuses.
I try not to include optional rules in this kind of guide, because a lot of GMs just won't allow it. I agree, however, that a wordcasting kitsune would kick some serious foxtail.
|
RPG Superstar 2014 Top 16
|
I mentioned a good use for the wayang's Light and Dark ability earlier, but I suppose you missed it. The main cool thing is, it's an immediate action, which I'm pretty sure can be done whenever you feel like it. So, if you're up against something that's channeling negative energy at you, LOLNOPE I'M A WAYANG. Insta-switch your energy affinity and watch yourself heal.
The only problem with that is that an immediate action still doesn't actually interrupt a standard action, as far as I know. So you'd see the enemy channeling, the channel would go off and you'd take damage, and THEN your immediate action would take effect. The only types of actions that can actually interrupt standard actions are attacks of opportunity, unless you specifically prepared one of your own actions as an interrupt.
|
RPG Superstar 2014 Top 16
|
Only think I have noticed so far.
The Witch favored class bonus that gives a spell to your familiar. It is the bonus to several races and you have a different color for each lol.
You start giving it a blue, and then it goes green, then orange, and finally red by the time you reach goblins lol.
I agree its a trap favored class bonus. You can spend gold to get spells for your familiar.
I would change all the races that get that bonus to Red.
Thanks for that, sometimes in a huge document like this you get confused about your own ratings LOL
Thanks for that, sometimes in a huge document like this you get confused about your own ratings LOLOnly think I have noticed so far.
The Witch favored class bonus that gives a spell to your familiar. It is the bonus to several races and you have a different color for each lol.
You start giving it a blue, and then it goes green, then orange, and finally red by the time you reach goblins lol.
I agree its a trap favored class bonus. You can spend gold to get spells for your familiar.
I would change all the races that get that bonus to Red.
NP. I did the same thing when I wrote the trait guide. My opinion would change as I wrote the guide about how good a certain bonus was and would rate similar traits different colors. Thankfully I had alot of great posters point out the differences.
The guide is looking top notch. Good luck finishing it up.
I gotta say, this is a happy day. Not only did I get my name in the guide, I was even able to affect the goblin entry :') sniff. I'm not crying, that's bomb dust in my eye!
About the water sight trick, wow. That is really nice! Makes me want to design a rogue x/oracle 1 dual wielding double pistols and blaze away from inside my cloud. Ninja shuriken would work too.
Another trick I just remembered. A human internal alchemist with the heart of the sea trait and 12 con. The internal alchemist let's you hold your breath for 12 hours and the sea trait doubles it to 24. You only have to breathe once a day! More neat then mechanically useful but I like it a lot. It unnerves people when you tell them you don't breathe... add in preserve organs for extra fun.
Btw nice new pic. I like it.
|
RPG Superstar 2014 Top 16
|
I gotta say, this is a happy day. Not only did I get my name in the guide, I was even able to affect the goblin entry :') sniff. I'm not crying, that's bomb dust in my eye!
About the water sight trick, wow. That is really nice! Makes me want to design a rogue x/oracle 1 dual wielding double pistols and blaze away from inside my cloud. Ninja shuriken would work too.
Another trick I just remembered. A human internal alchemist with the heart of the sea trait and 12 con. The internal alchemist let's you hold your breath for 12 hours and the sea trait doubles it to 24. You only have to breathe once a day! More neat then mechanically useful but I like it a lot. It unnerves people when you tell them you don't breathe... add in preserve organs for extra fun.
Btw nice new pic. I like it.
Trust me, your critiques have affected a large chunk of the guide! You've been incredibly helpful, and I sincerely thank you for that.
I played an Oracle 1/Rogue 5 in a campaign once, pulling the water sight trick, and I patently outshined every other character to the point where I got bored and killed her off. It's absolutely broken.
Lol ya I could see how that could be. I was thinking of dual wielding double pistols, 2 attacks (and 2 sneak attacks) per shot, thats 4 for regular attacks, 4 for first iterative, 2 for rapid shot and 2 more for haste :D 12 sets of sneak attack a round.... Ya nm, seems a bit to much...
No problem with the help! any time! It was loads of fun on this end.
Also, gripplis soon?