Goblin Squad Member
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Hey guys, I was just wandering what people think is the most enjoyable combat system for them? For me it's the TERA/RaiderZ style swinging and loose aiming with no real targeting, relying on dodging and timing, without going as far as needing the accuracy of a first person shooter's accuracy. For me it opens up the most dynamic and interesting system (allowing for vulnerable spots, weak points and use of shields as an actual shield). But what about you guys? What makes a combat system fun and interesting?
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Goblin Squad Member
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Personally, I'm partial to the tab-target and hotkey system that's pretty much the standard in games like WoW, EQ2, Vanguard, Rift and many more.
Ryan has been pretty clear about some of it, though...
From WHAT WILL COMBAT BE LIKE?:
The target/ability bar has really been done to death and i think a lot of people are looking for a new feel.I don't disagree with that. I think there's a huge design space to be explored. We just won't be exploring the one where you aim with player skill and twitch in response to stimuli.
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Goblin Squad Member
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one that I can actually partake in.
Really irritates me when I lag in quick reflex games, and there is just no way ever that I am going to get any better internet.
(I'd love to, but when your internet company has a monopoly in your area, it's either 5mbps or 50mbps with a 50-100 Gigabyte cap... And this month, we used 400 Gigabytes. We'd be paying $200/month for the internet usage we have, and that's just not happening.)
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Goblin Squad Member
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If they try to stay true to Pathfinder, it can't be twitch based which is good that they arnt going that way. I can see it be similar to the upcoming Neverwinter system where the cooldowns are based loosly on how often you can use them (at will, encounter, daily etc). Obviously the cooldown would be much shorter than a day but for those types of abilities you do want the use to be more strategic and meaningful than just spamming one or two attacks over and over.
The challenge is making it visually pleasing while staying true to those principles.
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Goblin Squad Member
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I'm in Australia, so I usually don't get a ping better than 300, so I'm used to lag, which is why I like the RaiderZ system, you do swing and aim, but you don't have to be too accurate, it's not a FPS. There's also a little but of targeting to compensate for latency. If you were aiming and tracking a target, your hits will home in on them, so your own lag won't make it unplayable. Granted, sometimes dodging ends up not working as fast as you need it to, but actually that could just be lurches with the game too.
For me personally, the tab and hot keys gets boring, with the various cool downs and things you end up pretty much having one choice of combination that is your most efficient use of abilities, and there's nothing else to do. I end up barely paying attention to the game, one hand tapping at hot keys, the other texting or holding a mug of tea, occasionally glancing at the game, because I've been doing the same combo for the last week repeatedly. And then I get bored and stop playing.
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Goblin Squad Member
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... you end up pretty much having one choice of combination that is your most efficient use of abilities, and there's nothing else to do.
This is an extremely valid concern.
If you're interested, I recommend the blog A Three-Headed Hydra. Scroll down to Part Three: The Combat System. Then check out the thread Goblinworks Blog: A Three-Headed Hydra.
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Goblin Squad Member
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That was interesting, thanks for the link. I do have a few concerns with that system- namely the weapon tied abilities.
Guild wars 2 has a similar system where your main combat skills are linked to your weapons. But it falls onto the same trap- within a few levels you have about all the abilities you'll ever use on a regular basis. Again you end up with one actual option for efficient use of your abilities, and that's all you can do for the rest of the game, barring exceptional circumstances, rather that being interesting, combat becomes a tedious, mindless pattern of hotkey order, with no real choices available except the occasional flavoring from your other set of abilities.
I hope that this system can give sufficient options to get around this trap. Even if they're not all available at the same time, but prepared in camp or whatever (eg choosing a certain set for a specific situation you're going into and then choosing a different set for somewhere else, and choosing a different combination entirely for when you're unsure what you'll be facing, giving you a broader, less specialized scope)
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Goblin Squad Member
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If they try to stay true to Pathfinder, it can't be twitch based which is good that they arnt going that way.
Being twitch based has nothing to do with staying 'ture to pathfinder', if anything twitch based would be more immersive giving you a higher level of control, but the dexterity to character ability curve is to steep to make it widely accepted. Staying true to pathfinder means nothing more than keeping the same setting, and TT game mechanics have nothing to do with the setting.
I would love to see the game handled more like Skyrim, but understand why it can't be that way.
@Jameow
Yeah, you will probably get most of the weapon abilities you will ever use early on, but you will also be training and improving those weapon abilities as you advance your character, hopefully changing how they function slightly. And I expect a good sized pool of weapon abilities, tied to different styles of play. If they do things right, everyone will be begging for just one more weapon slot, and GW should never give it to them.
