I liked the last 2 episodes. The pacing of season 3 in general was much better than season 2. Season 3 was well done.
I liked the part with Merle. He went out a hero imo. Not a smart hero (could have killed them all with some help), but a hero.
I found the ending really strange, with the old people coming into the prison, Carl saying WTF Dad, and lullaby music with walkers in the yard. I predict there will be several “evil Carl” vs Rick confrontations next season, but I hope that doesn’t happen (since I feel Carl is correct and I wouldn't find the Rick/Carl conflict entertaining at all).
I still don’t 100% understand the assault on the prison. For example, did Rick/Daryll kill any Woodbury people or just scare them with smoke bombs, walkers, and noise/darkness? When I was watching, I was wondering why it was only Glenn and Maggie fighting off 20+ people!
Also, I was a little surprised they killed Andrea, just because she had both hands free and had a weapon, she’s very good at killing walkers with knives/tools. On the other hand, I hated her character and I’m glad she’s gone. I find it a little ironic that she committed suicide anyway.
Personally, I’m wondering why they didn’t inhabit Woodbury. With the Governor out there, it’s not like the prison is any safer. Plus, Woodbury has running water, electricity, heat, and nice beds etc.
Of course he shot that kid. Those guys just tried to kill you… and they failed. Why would you feel sorry for them?
Also, if you let him go, what’s to stop him from returning 5 minutes later and just shooting you or someone else in the back? And if you send him out without weapons he’s zombie food.
Also, it looked the kid was still wanted to "go for it", even when told to drop the weapon.
Either way, he has to get shot.
I’ve noticed the zombies seem almost inconsequential as well, but I guess it makes sense since they’re more or less protected now.
Agree with Iceniqueen.
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I was a bit amazed (at the stupidity) of just how much amunition they wasted when the Gov's people went in. One that they had actually stockpiled that much (and new how to use it, for that matter), and two that they just kept blowing through it like it was nothing. That seemed a bit rediculous.
on the contrary (somewhat)** spoiler omitted **
** spoiler omitted **
on the contrary (somewhat)** spoiler omitted **
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Just goes to show you ...
As far as the Governor pulling the wool over folks' eyes, I think it really was more due to a cult of personality than anything else. He was viewed as the strong man, as the savior for the Woodbury folks. Andrea's hesitation came from falling into that trap a bit too much and it ended up having a high price.
Can really put too much blame on any outside the inner circle (which Andrea really wasn't part of). They were fed a line and they believed it. Andrea did have more of a view behind the curtain, but I think she was still trying to balance what was real and what wasn't, hence her hesitation and not killing the Governor when she had the chance.
The BIG question is will the Governor be back, or will the other two guys kill him when they get the chance and the shock wears off as he is completely unstable.
I was a bit amazed (at the stupidity) of just how much amunition they wasted when the Gov's people went in. One that they had actually stockpiled that much (and new how to use it, for that matter), and two that they just kept blowing through it like it was nothing. That seemed a bit rediculous.
Me too, but you have to admit it was just awesome to watch, especially the grenade launchers. Who else are they going to use grendade launchers on?
The BIG question is will the Governor be back, or will the other two guys kill him when they get the chance and the shock wears off as he is completely unstable.
He'll definitely be back, maybe not at the start of next season, but he'll be back. If his henchmen didn't kill him yet, they won't kill him in the future. Can't get any worse. Besides, there's kind of a sick logic to it, since they didn't do what he wanted and he thought they were useless, he treated them like they were useless. The only question is why didn't he go back to Woodbury and clean it out?
SO I've just finished watching all three seasons in less than a week.
Apparently setting noisemaker traps surrounded by ditches is a good way to trap zombies. Then you can just drop petrol and a match every time it gets full.
So why not dig a big ditch, or series of ditches, around your town. Then when one gets nearly full drop some gas and a match down. Repeat as needed.
Seems a pretty solid plan.
Hell have several holes around key areas (such as the fields where you grow food) so that should zombies attack you just put the ole between yourself and the zombie(s). They fall in. You fetch some nearby gas and matches.
"but this will use a lot of gas!"
True, but far less than driving around constantly like they do now.
All in all I loved the show. I couldn't stop watching it.
Why did none of the people who were at the CDC mention to the smart guy in town that the CDC thinks it attacks the brain like meningitis and all that other stuff he said?
I've been an avid reader of the comic and only a sideline watcher of the TV series. Having read up on Season 3's ending (not watched yet), I'm a bit disappointed.
Her character has really suffered with the transition from page to screen, as she is much more competent and sympathetic in the comics.
Interesting that they decided to save both the Governer and the prison complex, as both disappear in the comic series. I think maybe they're trying to save some cash on set production perhaps?
So why not dig a big ditch, or series of ditches, around your town. Then when one gets nearly full drop some gas and a match down. Repeat as needed.
Burning the zombies doesn't kill them and it takes a lot of gas (and limited confines) to even disable them. Milton proved that.
I suppose that you could walk through the disabled bodies and beat their heads in, but it seems risky (biters like the one that got Hershel), messy (I'd rather remove regular zombies than burnt), and somewhat cruel (OK, maybe I'm a softy but I'd rather just waste them).
My question is why don't the survivors spend a few hours everyday near the fences, stabbing through the fence, clearing zombies. There should be no internal roamers and limited external roamers imo. Makes life a lot easier and safer, but maybe it doesn't make for great TV, lol.
My question is why don't the survivors spend a few hours everyday near the fences, stabbing through the fence, clearing zombies. There should be no internal roamers and limited external roamers imo. Makes life a lot easier and safer, but maybe it doesn't make for great TV, lol.
In the comics they did. Agreed that they should have carried it to the show.
And it begins again...
As much as I love this show...did anyone else find the raining zombies ridiculous?
I liked it. The structure was compromised with the helicopter crashing into it, as well if gasoline leaked out it could have further compromised the structure. Seems unlikely they'd fall through all over the place (it should have been isolated), but it was still OK. But you're right, it didn't make 100% sense.
Despite being a huge mark for the Walking Dead; I doubt very seriously that gasoline would corrode an asphalt ceiling like that.
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The Heli crashing into the building could have caused structural damage. Simple rain water getting into the building with no maintenance could have done the rest. My question is why were there a bunch of zombies on the roof? Seems like they would have wondered off sooner or later. Despite that, I thought the zombies falling into the store was awesome. Otherwise a pretty boring season opener.
I'll agree on the chopper doing some structural damage but that was a steel built building with an asphalt/rubber roof (which have sheet metal underneath) and rain water would not degrade it to that point in so little time if ever. Just have to chalk it up to 'suspend disbelief for the story to work'.
Maybe the walkers were all on board the chopper before it crashed?
I thought it was a decent episode...not exactly explosive or anything but it set things up well.
Yeah I thought about it more and if the roof were that compromised, the zombies would have already fallen through into the store long ago. A wine shelf falling isn't going to change that. Still enjoyed the episode though.
Also, the survivors would have been able to see that that roof of the store had a helicopter and zombies on it from a distance. That shouldn't have been a surprise.
The roof was obviously a pickup / drop-off point for the chopper. Maybe when it crashed it killed a few people? Or maybe the site was invaded while people were waiting on the roof to get picked up (and the chopper can only take so many people)? We'll never know.
It might cross interspecies, but pigs do die for other reasons that are completely normal. The pig didn't turn into a zombie (yet). Questions is, do you eat the dead pig? Maybe, someone would have to test it first.
I do hope they don't make it airborne.
Ah f*&&, you know what? I definitely think it's airborne or causing a problem with the water. Remember that zombie with the burning bloody eyes that Rick keeps looking at? Yeah, that zombie brought the disease to the prison.
Either that or the boy died from either someone sabotaging the food or water. But now that I think about it, it's that zombie with the bloody eyes.
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My take:
It could be that stupid little girl feeding the walkers through the fence at night, or an old foe feeding plague rats to the walkers in an effort to kill the defenders (notice how the fence line duty was mentioned in detail, as was some spray from one of the walkers being taken out). Since it's through the fence it could be one of the kids, though I think the plague and rat feedings drawing the dead to the fence are two separate issues.
With some water/water supply imagery in the episode (opening scene with Rick and washing his face, plus the Harry Potter/nerdcore zombie spewing over the open water container) means to me that it could be water borne and/or their water supply is about to get compromised.
There are some allusions to "death finding them" in many of the trailers without showing any real foes besides the walkers - this could be a nod to Poe's Masque of the Red Death where the protagonist and followers lock themselves up in a fortress in an effort to avoid the plague.
Considering the massive amounts of death/decomposition in the world I wouldn't be surprised if it was a normal eradicated disease that just came back, or a slightly modified one. Obviously, one of the walkers at the fence had the gore eyes, similar to Harry Potter right after he turned.
Looks like this will be the Plague Season
Also one last point about Rick’s comments on the "best defense against walkers is people", the worst defense against plague and infection is having people living together. So the situation may revise his approach on dealing with people after all the background characters get wasted. No more town efforts, clustering people and letting strangers in.
Anyway, that’s my take on it.
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and re: the events at the store:
Overall, I liked the episode.
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Yeah I thought about it more and if the roof were that compromised, the zombies would have already fallen through into the store long ago. A wine shelf falling isn't going to change that. Still enjoyed the episode though.
Also, the survivors would have been able to see that that roof of the store had a helicopter and zombies on it from a distance. That shouldn't have been a surprise.
The roof was obviously a pickup / drop-off point for the chopper. Maybe when it crashed it killed a few people? Or maybe the site was invaded while people were waiting on the roof to get picked up (and the chopper can only take so many people)? We'll never know.
** spoiler omitted **
The wine shelf falling was the noise that brought the zombies not why the roof collapsed. Also, new guy saw the water pouring down from the ceiling. There was a weak point that gave way once the zombies started moving in and putting weight on it. Why they didn't collapse it well before now, not sure.
I think the party knew the zombies were up there but they were not inside. They were watching their backs mostly and trying to get in and out. Nobody expected the roof to give way so surprise on that one. I thought it was a clever way to have a zombie attack happen even if the facts don't make complete sense.
On Talking Dead afterward they had the show runner. He mentioned that the falling zombies came from a brainstorming session, and started with everyone laughing, then it took off as an idea. He said the writers liked it for showing that no matter how careful they are, and even when they do everything right, the characters can still have bad stuff happen.
Even Talking Dead was great
That was one intense episode. Absolutely great.
Agree, the mid season ender was intense and great, one of the best. I was yelling at my TV, "Get him Rick, get him!". lol.
A sad ending for a great character too. :( I'm sad to see him go.
I agree it was a great mid season finale.
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Mrs. Gersen: "How the hell can you have a 'Mid-Season Finale'? That's stupid -- either the season is over, and you have a finale, or it's not, and you don't!"
Any thoughts on the rats?
I thought the same thing zylphryx. She was feeding rats to the walkers.
I really really wanted the rats thing to be the work of the Gov from inside the prison. That, and poisoning the water supply to set off the cholera attack..or whatever that 'disease that only kills the hippy dippy refugees from woodbury' or DTOKTHDRFW patent pending. I dunno, this show has soooooo much potential and I guess its realistic in that people make dumbass decisions under pressure, but damn. I wish they could just kill Rick off. That dude has worn the exact same shirt for the entire multi-season series. WTF?!?!?
...though having the tank show up to the fenceline was friggin badass!
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Of course it could also be something completely unrelated.
My main concern come February is how will the group being split be handled for the episodes? You've got:
1) Rick and Carl
2) Daryl and Beth
3) Tyreese and the kids
4) Maggie, Sasha and Bob
5) Glenn and all the folks on the bus
6) Michonne
Granted, some may meet up pretty quickly, but I do foresee parallel story lines or characters being dropped for a while only to pop up again later (like in the comic)
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Best guess on the rats is that it's the little girl (Lizzy?) doing the feeding (as I said in my post on 10.15). Now I'm starting to think that she killed those two people in the prison, Carol found them dead and drug their bodies out and burned them to cover it up and took the blame to protect her. Hence her frustration in the one scene when she is taking it out on the water barrels - thinking on the fact that she may have put those murders in motion by all the harsh stuff she was teaching the kids about survival.
I thought it was a decent mid-season ender. There was plenty of implausible stuff in there, but Herschel’s smile before his end more than made up for it.
Any guesses on what happened to Judith? I don't think she died in the walker attack - I think Michonne was the one who found her and took her away (due to some foreshadowing events in previous episodes).
Anyway, those are my guesses.
I agree on the rat thing until last weeks episode. Now its taken a new direction based on what i recall. Can anyone confirm if it was part of the comics?
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The rats were not, no. The tank and a character losing their head was (though it was Tyreese in the comic).
Also, in the comic, it was during the assault that Herschel, Laurie and the baby all died (though it is still not clear if the baby died in the show). It was the death of Laurie and the baby that made some of the Governor's folks turn on him and gun him down. So, some parallels to the comic, but it really is going it's own way, only occasionally touching back to the comic (no flu outbreak in the comic, for example).
EDIT: interesting take on Carole's admission of guilt Aux. Will make it really interesting if Tyreese is with the kids and the truth comes out.
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Bella Sara Charter Superscriber
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Best guess on the rats is that it's the little girl (Lizzy?) doing the feeding (as I said in my post on 10.15). Now I'm starting to think that she killed those two people in the prison, Carol found them dead and drug their bodies out and burned them to cover it up and took the blame to protect her. Hence her frustration in the one scene when she is taking it out on the water barrels - thinking on the fact that she may have put those murders in motion by all the harsh stuff she was teaching the kids about survival.
I thought it was a decent mid-season ender. There was plenty of implausible stuff in there, but Herschel’s smile before his end more than made up for it.
Any guesses on what happened to Judith? I don't think she died in the walker attack - I think Michonne was the one who found her and took her away (due to some foreshadowing events in previous episodes).
Anyway, those are my guesses.
Let me echo zylphryx's sentiment - that's a great observation/theory re: Carol.
What are the foreshadowing events you noted relating to Michonne taking up the baby? I'm also doubting the baby is dead, but one thing that made me doubt that doubt is the symmetry in the Governor losing a pseudo-daughter and Rick losing a daughter.
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Let me echo zylphryx's sentiment - that's a great observation/theory re: Carol.
What are the foreshadowing events you noted relating to Michonne taking up the baby? I'm also doubting the baby is dead, but one thing that made me doubt that doubt is the symmetry in the Governor losing a pseudo-daughter and Rick losing a daughter.
The only two things I have going to support my Michonne theory: The fact that there was mention (implied really) that Michonne lost a baby and you can see how much it damaged her when it's brought up (that's 1) the second is the fact that Michonne has configured significantly in importance into the lives of Rick and Carl...saving Judith and bringing her back to them would solidify the relationship between the three (that's my 2nd). I can't really mention Judith as a character per se in that triad, but more of a force or factor in the series. The second point is far more speculative, but from a character development pov, I see Michonne as being part of the Rick/Carl/Judith family group.
Also, in many ways Michonne on her own would be a little boring/back to do-anything-to-survive mode. Her trekking it out with a baby (and keeping that baby alive) would be nuts, with only her or Daryl really being the ones in the group with the chops and skill to pull that task off in the wilderness.
If you think about it, only Michonne or Daryl on zylphryx's list could pull off keeping her alive.
I would revise the list as such:
1) Rick and Carl
2) Daryl and Beth
3) Tyreese and the kids
4) Maggie, Sasha and Bob
5) Glenn and all the folks on the bus
6) Michonne (and maybe Judith)
7) Lilly (guv'nors ex gf) and Sister or either one alone or w/Judith
The daughter symmetry between the two leaders is a valid and solid point, from a story perspective though it only hits home if both of them were still alive after losing their kids. With the Governor gone, the symmetry loses some strength. I think the baby-Michonne connection is going to strengthened and develop Michonne’s character outside of her survivor role, and is going to cement her relationship with Rick and Carl when they meet back up.
Or...I could be wrong.
** spoiler omitted **
I was a bit amazed (at the stupidity) of just how much amunition they wasted when the Gov's people went in. One that they had actually stockpiled that much (and new how to use it, for that matter), and two that they just kept blowing through it like it was nothing. That seemed a bit rediculous.
It's well established where they got the guns and ammo. And how is shooting at people trying to overrun and kill you "stupid". On a historical note one, the main difference between a M-16 A-1 and an A-2 is that the A-! is fully automatic. During the Vietnam war soldiers tended to unload whole magazines of ammo into the jungle without hitting anything. They didn't care about ammo, they just knew there were guys trying to kill them. This is why the A-2 can only be shot in 3 round bursts, so people can't unload magazines and waste ammo.
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The M16 A-1 also had some notorious jamming issues. But yes, panic FA shooting = miss like crazy.
Backfromthedeadguy has the right take on it. They stocked up on all the heavy gear and ammo from Morgan and then after the war with Woodbury. Probably with forays into the outlying ruins during their farming days (assuming) when they had safety and stability to do so.
At first, I thought the rats were Lizzie because she humanized the walkers. But there’s no way she’s dropping rats into the depths of the prison alone. It’s someone else, my guess is Bob. Why Bob? I thought he was a Governor plant at first, but it’s probably something else. It's weird that all of his old groups mysteriously died.
What’s wrong with a mid-season finale? It means two climaxes instead of one. I have no problem with that. It means more stuff happens, more plot progression, which I think everyone can appreciate.
I doubt the baby is dead, fans would hate it a lot, and there is already a lot of fan love/hate with main characters dying. Kirkman did say that there was “a lot of blood” in the baby carrier though, and keep in mind they can’t be too graphic with something like that, so it’s still possible she is gone.
Auxmaulous could be right about Lizzie and Carol. It makes perfect sense.
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It's well established where they got the guns and ammo. And how is shooting at people trying to overrun and kill you "stupid". On a historical note one, the main difference between a M-16 A-1 and an A-2 is that the A-! is fully automatic. During the Vietnam war soldiers tended to unload whole magazines of ammo into the jungle without hitting anything. They didn't care about ammo, they just knew there were guys trying to kill them. This is why the A-2 can only be shot in 3 round bursts, so people can't unload magazines and waste ammo.** spoiler omitted **
I was a bit amazed (at the stupidity) of just how much amunition they wasted when the Gov's people went in. One that they had actually stockpiled that much (and new how to use it, for that matter), and two that they just kept blowing through it like it was nothing. That seemed a bit rediculous.
Note that that comment was in reference to the first time they did it last season, not the last episode.
One thing I think would be awful interesting is if Tyrese and the kids run into Carol. He still doesn't know she did it(or admitted to it). I could see them forming a bond and then meeting all back up with Rick and the others and then a falling out.
Ooo, I think you're onto something here. Rick was interrupted just as he tried to tell him, if I remember correctly...
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I doubt the baby is dead, fans would hate it a lot, and there is already a lot of fan love/hate with main characters dying. Kirkman did say that there was “a lot of blood” in the baby carrier though, and keep in mind they can’t be too graphic with something like that, so it’s still possible she is gone.Auxmaulous could be right about Lizzie and Carol. It makes perfect sense.
I saw the empty baby carrier and thought "whew, one of the wounded people grabbed up the kid...you can tell by the blood." I also said good no walkers around, if they got the baby they would have stuck around while feeding during the 2 or so minutes left in the fight and Rick would have came across them snackin'.
I could be totally wrong on all accounts there but the clues looked more positive to me than negative.Also I love the idea of Bob being the rat-feeding rat. He has something darker in his past than just outlasting his groups and liking some drink.