BTW, I think Felicity is wrong in breaking up with Oliver. This time, keeping it a secret was justified. It wasn't some vague "If you know, you'll be in danger". It's literally "If I tell you, I'll never be able to know my son".
He had no choice. Between giving up a relationship with his son and hurting Felicity's feeling, it's easy to see which one is worse. Felicity would surely get over it at some point, but Oliver would never be able to recover those years he couldn't be with his son.
He made a promise, under protest, to the mother of his child. He did want to tell Felcity, but she forced him to not do it. It's not a question of Oliver not trusting Felicity, it's a question of him being worthy of the trust William's mother (whose name I forget).
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Huh?
Unless Felicity TOLD the woman, how was she ever going to find out Felicity knew?
Huh?
Unless Felicity TOLD the woman, how was she ever going to find out Felicity knew?
So it's okay to lie if she never finds out? Then why would it not be okay to lie to Felicity if she never finds out?
Sure, Felicty is his fiance, but keep in mind that Oliver wasn't doing it out for his ex... He was doing it for his son! And a single slip of tongue could reveal his lie.
It's okay to break a promise made under duress by an unreasonable idiot.
And let's be real. The fact that he had a son WAS going to come out. Thea knew, Barry knew, and Felicity just miiiight start to wonder why he was visiting some woman in Central City on the regular. Not to mention the paper trail that was that check his mom wrote.
"A single slip of the tongue" could just as easily reveal the secret that he's the Green Arrow to some random people over dinner. Or even something important that he doesn't tell random people all the time anyway.
What you're saying is, basically, he doesn't trust Felicity to keep her big mouth shut. Which is not a good foundation for a relationship. Which is why she left.
Speaking of, why in the ever-loving f*$$ did he tell that woman he was Green Arrow? He could just as easily have told her the half-truth that the kid was kidnapped to ensure his withdrawal form the mayoral election and left it at that. Her presence was not needed and was nothing but an annoyance with her squawking.
BTW, I think Felicity is wrong in breaking up with Oliver. This time, keeping it a secret was justified. It wasn't some vague "If you know, you'll be in danger". It's literally "If I tell you, I'll never be able to know my son".
He had no choice. Between giving up a relationship with his son and hurting Felicity's feeling, it's easy to see which one is worse. Felicity would surely get over it at some point, but Oliver would never be able to recover those years he couldn't be with his son.
He made a promise, under protest, to the mother of his child. He did want to tell Felcity, but she forced him to not do it. It's not a question of Oliver not trusting Felicity, it's a question of him being worthy of the trust William's mother (whose name I forget).
I kind of thought the whole thing was a bit contrived honestly. They wanted to create relationship drama and this was the most heavy-handed way they could do so
It's okay to break a promise made under duress by an unreasonable idiot.
And let's be real. The fact that he had a son WAS going to come out. Thea knew, Barry knew, and Felicity just miiiight start to wonder why he was visiting some woman in Central City on the regular. Not to mention the paper trail that was that check his mom wrote.
"A single slip of the tongue" could just as easily reveal the secret that he's the Green Arrow to some random people over dinner. Or even something important that he doesn't tell random people all the time anyway.
What you're saying is, basically, he doesn't trust Felicity to keep her big mouth shut. Which is not a good foundation for a relationship. Which is why she left.
Speaking of, why in the ever-loving f#$* did he tell that woman he was Green Arrow? He could just as easily have told her the half-truth that the kid was kidnapped to ensure his withdrawal form the mayoral election and left it at that. Her presence was not needed and was nothing but an annoyance with her squawking.
What I'm saying is that he made a promise. If he breaks the very first promise he ever made to William's mother, what reason would she have to ever trust him? Again, it's not a matter of whether or not he trusts Felicity, but of whether or not he gains the trust of William's mom.
I'm not saying he should never tell Felicity... Of course he'd have to do so at some point! But Oliver only just found out about his son, and there is plenty of more immediate problems piling up on top of him and his family and friends. It's very freaking reasonable to wait a little longer.
I kind of thought the whole thing was a bit contrived honestly. They wanted to create relationship drama and this was the most heavy-handed way they could do so
Indeed... It seems the writers are slipping back a little bit into their old habit of making Oliver/Felicity relationship a soap opera drama.
I honestly have a hard time taking 'nice Ollie' seriously. Something about how he spent the first few years being insanely intense in the hood, and then giddy funboy as a thin mask out in public... Seeing him still intense as Green Arrow, but trying to convince me that happy Honest Ollie is the 'real' one just isn't clicking with me.
And I PREFER my heroes to be the 'good' guys... It's just this 'I suddenly decided to be nice' feels way to close to 'I'm pretending to be nice'...
Maybe that's a comment about the actor's ability... but I'm just not feeling it.
Just because, my translation of Krensky's post upthread:
Looking forward to Dinah (and us) finding out who Conner's mother is on LL this week.
"Looking forward to Sara (and us) finding out who Connor's mother is on 'LOT' (Legends of Tomorrow) this week."
Of course we learned Connor was son of Diggle (and presumably Lyla). What's weird is no one mentioned his sister Sara (named for Sara Lance). Presumably she's dead? But you'd think Ollie would mention it to Connor, or Connor say something like, "That was my sister's name."
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On Felicity's magic doodad---first, they made it work waaaaay too quickly. There was this great set up about healing taking time and I thought, Okay they're gonna do this respectfully and treat this as a major, longterm development, and then NOPE! Magic heal button, all basically for a visual gag.
That said, given they paralyzed her as a nod to Oracle, I'm wondering if the doodad is going to be hacked and she's going to be manipulated much like in the Brainiac plot long ago in Birds of Prey. Calculator or Brother Eye (Felicity's ex boyfriend) might do it.
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Hama, you're not the only one enjoying Darhk. Neal McDonough has been nailing it.
Sorry Krensky, just trying to help. :) Didn't mean to make you feel bad.
well crap....
Thanks alot Guggenheim! :p
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My guess: she wanted him to fake her death so that she can hide out until Darhk is on trial and then pull a surprise re-emergence and make sure he is convicted.
Stupid? Sure. Ridiculously cruel and destructive? Absolutely.
Ergo, very possibly where they are going with it.
That said... do we think it was Laurel's grave in the flash-forward from the start of the season? I'm guessing yes.
Potential ramifications: Felicity is REALLY pissed at Oliver for lying to her again. Oliver and Laurel eventually get back together. Captain Lance may or may not drink himself to death.
Regarding the identity of last night's victim:
I'd read just a couple of days ago that the writers didn't want to kill the as-yet-unrevealed victim but that it was necessary to drive plot developments going forward. I can't see the death of Black Canary or Laurel Lance making that much of an impact. Maybe Quentin starts drinking again; big deal.
Speedy's death might have had a big impact on both Oliver and Malcolm, driving both to be more brutal or sending Ollie into a deep depression where he barely comes out of the lair at all. I was fully expecting her to bite it in the last 2-3 minutes of the show until Laurel suddenly went into crisis in recovery.
@CBDunkerson: I have no alternate theory to offer for what Ollie was asked to do, but...
Honestly,
My theory is that she's a liability to the group and her father while 'dead,' So its better to have her go away for a while till they get Lance out of the crossfire.
Mystery appearance at the trial would be pretty lame, but death to protect family and friends is pretty standard stuff.
The BIG problem now is how to stop Lance from arming up and getting himself killed in his inevitable vengeance quest...
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If it is a fake, I don't think Oliver is in on it. If he is, Oliver is really crappin' good at acting; I thought his reaction was extremely convincing.
All the tears at the end of this episode got me crying. When Laurel asked for the photo from her bag and Ollie nearly lost it, that's when it started.
The last bit of this last episode was some of the best acting I've seen from the whole cast. I was super impressed (and sniffly)!
Admittedly, she is pretty dull... But her death doesn't really add anything new to the narrative. This is the third time Cap Lance loses a daughter and Ollie loses a former lover... Why do they even care at this point? Go to the Lazarus Pit... Ask Barry to go back in time. Whatever! Laurel's death doesn't has any effect on the rest of the cast that the death of any other character would have.
If she's gone forever, it doesn't really has any effect on the story... If she returns from the dead, it makes it obvious that no death has no consequence and shouldn't be a big deal ever again... And if it's indeed a fake out, it'll feel cheap as f%%*! And make Laurel an awful person, if she doesn't let Cap Lance know.
Over on Flash, Barry keeps hearing that messing with the timeline is a Very Bad Idea, but the changes brought about by his own time trips have been mostly positive: Cisco lives, tidal wave doesn't wreck Central City, Pied Piper is now a good guy, etc.
Meantime in Legends, Rip Hunter and crew are changing things left and right, but it's okay because he "knows what he's doing." Except that he doesn't. Over and over again he fails to make the change he wants; more than once he's made things worse; and he can't even check the outcome with Gideon until after it's done.
So messing with the timestream isn't automatically a bad thing, it's just very unpredictable, even for those who call themselves "masters." That should be enough of a reason to avoid having Barry run back to prevent any death that might occur...because where would you draw the line? Save/resurrect anyone on Team Arrow or Team Flash but not any SCCD or CCPD officers killed in the line of duty? What about innocent civilians killed by a supervillain? or a natural disaster? or a traffic accident?
There needs to be a better reason for retroactively saving a life than simply "it was tragic" or "I knew him/her personally."
Maybe it wasn't tragic for us but I'm sure as hell it was tragic for team arrow.
If it were Felicity's mom or... Anyone else, really... We'd see something new, since the characters and relationships affected the most would be different.
Well..I would say this will have quite a bit of impact this season:
Diggle will feel guilty for trusting his brother which let him betray them, and Thea for not being able to make the kill and prevent Darkh from getting his powers back.
So Ollie is no going to be the only one for a change racked with guilt
Well..I would say this will have quite a bit of impact this season:
** spoiler omitted **
Yeah, but all that would have happened no matter who died. Literally any other character would add something extra to the story.
I just really hate Guggenheim right now.
More and more I want to see Diggle beat the crap out of his little brother...
Watch the latest episode and you might get your wish!
Watch the latest episode and you might get your wish!
Just did, actually...
Still hate Guggenheim.
I will admit I was slightly disappointed that Evelyn Sharp wasn't Death after how her first appearance looked.
I assume you mean the blackjack gal? Was she anyone legitimate? The whole casino scene made me think they were going to bring in Zatanna... but when she introduced herself I drew a complete blank.
Well nuclear devastation does tend to be a downer in most situations, Krensky. Even if it's not hitting Las Vegas.
So who else did Darkh nuke?
Kal,
They probably thought Anarky had like super explosive powers or something.
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I liked the finale pretty much. I even thought that the rallying the city to produce enough hope and positive emotions to counter Darhk wasn't horrible, even though that trope is often overdone. It was set up as the way to counter his magic earlier, and just needed to be scaled up to deal with the vast increase in power Darhk had.
I was also pretty happy that things ended on a stable note. No horribleness at the last minute, no big twist setting things up for next season, just a nice ending and reward for characters who had been through a pretty horrible year. While I think we'll see several of them again, I think it will also be good to shrink the team down again to allow for new characters to develop without becoming too crowded.
Next year is the last of the flashback period of Oliver's life. I wonder what they'll do to replace that in S6.