Iomedaean Sword Oath and unarmed strikes.


Rules Questions

Grand Lodge

Can I use Iomedaean Sword Oath with unarmed strikes, natural attacks, or improvised weapons?


If you ever use a melee or ranged weapon other than a longsword in combat. you lose the benefits of this feat until you receive an atonement spell.

I think you can't but i might be wrong.

Grand Lodge

Weapon in what sense?


I guess in extreme situations where there is no recourse but to punch and slap then I would wonder why Iomedae have an issue with it.


you can get Weapon Focus on claw or bight. I think it works both ways.

you might be able too use unarmed strike.

Grand Lodge

I am talking about times when grappled, or disarmed.

Maybe you have a bite, or end up in a bar fight.

Do all these situations cause you to atone?

What about using unarmed strikes for Combat Maneuvers?

What about Combat Maneuvers that cannot be done with the Longsword?

Grand Lodge

Okay, so this is some serious necro here, but now I have a fellow player wanting this feat, and asking some of the same questions.

Any clue?


My first thought was that of course unarmed strikes would be considered melee weapons, but reading over the combat section and glossary I actually think that's incorrect.

Combat - Standard Actions - Attack wrote:

Melee Attacks: With a normal melee weapon, you can strike any opponent within 5 feet. (Opponents within 5 feet are considered adjacent to you.) Some melee weapons have reach, as indicated in their descriptions. With a typical reach weapon, you can strike opponents 10 feet away, but you can't strike adjacent foes (those within 5 feet).

Unarmed Attacks: Striking for damage with punches, kicks, and head butts is much like attacking with a melee weapon, except for the following:

The Combat section appears to consider them two separate items. Therefore I don't think you'd normally lose the benefit of Sword Oath from using an unarmed strike. The exception would be if you were for some reason cross-classed into monk, in which case their unarmed strikes are explicitly called out as treated as manufactured weapons (in which case I'd assume they'd fall into the melee weapon category).

Natural attacks explicitly state that they are attacks "made without a weapon"; thus I can't see how they'd be considered melee weapons if they aren't made with weapons.

Improvised weapons is a little trickier. I think that using them would probably break the bans included in Sword Oath, because the section on them states that you compare them to a melee weapon of similar size and weight in order to determine damage.

Grand Lodge

Well, I actually see unarmed strikes and natural weapons as more of weapons, than improvised weapons.

Really, the use of non-weapon specific Combat Maneuvers is one of my concerns, especially when concerning things like grapple, when the use of a Longsword is not really viable.


Well, for combat maneuvers that don't normally use a weapon (such as grapple or overrun), you're doing just that: not using a weapon. For these kinds of combat maneuvers, I'd say you're not violating the oath; however if you wanted to disarm your opponent, you'd best use that longsword or suffer the disappointment of Iomedae.

Pre-Post EDIT: I'm iffy on Bull Rush, because of the way it's worded and the existence of at least one feat that grants free bull rushes when using shields. I'm leaning toward the opinion that it doesn't normally use a weapon since I'm having trouble picturing someone bull rushing with a longsword (and I mean actually using it to perform the maneuver, not just using it to play connect the dots with your hands as you shove the guy).

Digital Products Assistant

Removed an unhelpful post.

Grand Lodge

blackbloodtroll wrote:

I am talking about times when grappled, or disarmed.

Maybe you have a bite, or end up in a bar fight.

Do all these situations cause you to atone?

What about using unarmed strikes for Combat Maneuvers?

What about Combat Maneuvers that cannot be done with the Longsword?

Yes.

No. and for the last.. if you want to do other things than attack with a longsword, you shouldn't be taking the Oath. That's the whole point of taking the oath.. it's an act of devotion by fighting in Iomaedae's sole combat mode.


The feat specifically allows you to use flame blade, a weapon-like, scimitar-shaped melee spell effect. If making attack rolls with that doesn't cause you to lose the benefits of the feat, it seems to suggest that what the oath is about is not holding and using a physically distinct, non-longsword weapon. If swinging your fist at someone while it holds a "magical blazing beam of red-hot fire" doesn't break the oath, then swinging that fist without the blazing beam should be no worse. Unarmed combat should be fine, combat maneuvers performed without using a weapon should be fine. Clubbing or trying to disarm someone someone with a candelabra wouldn't be fine, because you *picked it up and swung it*, like it was a physical weapon. Bull rush should be fine, I've always pictured it as a football-esque shoulder charge, just make sure to use the shoulder of your weapon arm and not your shield.

Grand Lodge

An oath is an oath... It's not something to be set aside because it's inconvenient, or because you didn't have the heart to truly show your devotion to Iomedae the Inheritor who smote evil just fine by using only her longsword for melee combat.

You really don't have any reason to take the oath, unless you intended to expand your longsword combat options with fighter feats. You don't have a ton of feats to spend on combat abilities as a cleric or paladin anyway.


So instead of fighting back when grappled, Iomedae just took it like a champ?

EDIT: Sometimes I HERP so hard I DERP

Grand Lodge RPG Superstar 2012 Top 32

LoneKnave wrote:
So instead of fighting back when grappled, Iomedae just took it like a champ?

Or maybe she read the grappling rules and then attacked the grappling creature with her longsword?

Grand Lodge

Jiggy wrote:
LoneKnave wrote:
So instead of fighting back when grappled, Iomedae just took it like a champ?
Or maybe she read the grappling rules and then attacked the grappling creature with her longsword?

It can be quite difficult to do this.

Also, being disarmed is hell for such a PC.

Good thing Gunslingers screwed over Weapon Cords.

Grand Lodge RPG Superstar 2012 Top 32

I don't understand how any of that is a reply to me.


blackbloodtroll wrote:
Jiggy wrote:
LoneKnave wrote:
So instead of fighting back when grappled, Iomedae just took it like a champ?
Or maybe she read the grappling rules and then attacked the grappling creature with her longsword?
It can be quite difficult to do this.

You can attack with a weapon in a grapple at a -2 penalty. You can't use a two handed weapon, but longsword is just fine.

blackbloodtroll wrote:

Also, being disarmed is hell for such a PC.

Good thing Gunslingers screwed over Weapon Cords.

Draw another longsword?

Pick up the disarmed longsword?
Use a spell, as allowed by the feat?
Use a locking gauntlet to prevent disarm?
Why couldn't you use a weapon cord (he disarms you, on your turn you get it back as a swift)?

Scarab Sages

Do Fighter levels stack with the feat? I.e., can a 4th level Fighter with Iomedaean Sword Oath qualify for Greater Weapon Focus (longsword)?

Grand Lodge

Horselord wrote:
Do Fighter levels stack with the feat? I.e., can a 4th level Fighter with Iomedaean Sword Oath qualify for Greater Weapon Focus (longsword)?

Not as written, no. The feat just lets you select longsword-related feats as if you were a 4th level fighter. It doesn't give you fighter levels, or let you stack cleric levels, or anything like that.


Samasboy1 wrote:

*snip*

Why couldn't you use a weapon cord (he disarms you, on your turn you get it back as a swift)?

They changed weapon cords.

Grand Lodge

Honorable Goblin wrote:
Samasboy1 wrote:

*snip*

Why couldn't you use a weapon cord (he disarms you, on your turn you get it back as a swift)?
They changed weapon cords.

Which means it's only a move action to recover. Gunslingers were getting a bit silly with weapon cords, so they refined the item.

The Exchange Owner - D20 Hobbies

blackbloodtroll wrote:
Can I use Iomedaean Sword Oath with unarmed strikes, natural attacks, or improvised weapons?

It is going to be a pedantic day I guess. ;-)

No unless you consider Natural Weapons, Unarmed Strikes, and Improvised Weapons not weapons. If so, then Yes.

Not all options have to be uber. Sometimes an option is frustrating in some situations.

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