blackbloodtroll
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Can I use Iomedaean Sword Oath with unarmed strikes, natural attacks, or improvised weapons?
| Xaratherus |
My first thought was that of course unarmed strikes would be considered melee weapons, but reading over the combat section and glossary I actually think that's incorrect.
Melee Attacks: With a normal melee weapon, you can strike any opponent within 5 feet. (Opponents within 5 feet are considered adjacent to you.) Some melee weapons have reach, as indicated in their descriptions. With a typical reach weapon, you can strike opponents 10 feet away, but you can't strike adjacent foes (those within 5 feet).
Unarmed Attacks: Striking for damage with punches, kicks, and head butts is much like attacking with a melee weapon, except for the following:
The Combat section appears to consider them two separate items. Therefore I don't think you'd normally lose the benefit of Sword Oath from using an unarmed strike. The exception would be if you were for some reason cross-classed into monk, in which case their unarmed strikes are explicitly called out as treated as manufactured weapons (in which case I'd assume they'd fall into the melee weapon category).
Natural attacks explicitly state that they are attacks "made without a weapon"; thus I can't see how they'd be considered melee weapons if they aren't made with weapons.
Improvised weapons is a little trickier. I think that using them would probably break the bans included in Sword Oath, because the section on them states that you compare them to a melee weapon of similar size and weight in order to determine damage.
| Honorable Goblin |
Well, for combat maneuvers that don't normally use a weapon (such as grapple or overrun), you're doing just that: not using a weapon. For these kinds of combat maneuvers, I'd say you're not violating the oath; however if you wanted to disarm your opponent, you'd best use that longsword or suffer the disappointment of Iomedae.
Pre-Post EDIT: I'm iffy on Bull Rush, because of the way it's worded and the existence of at least one feat that grants free bull rushes when using shields. I'm leaning toward the opinion that it doesn't normally use a weapon since I'm having trouble picturing someone bull rushing with a longsword (and I mean actually using it to perform the maneuver, not just using it to play connect the dots with your hands as you shove the guy).
LazarX
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I am talking about times when grappled, or disarmed.
Maybe you have a bite, or end up in a bar fight.
Do all these situations cause you to atone?
What about using unarmed strikes for Combat Maneuvers?
What about Combat Maneuvers that cannot be done with the Longsword?
Yes.
No. and for the last.. if you want to do other things than attack with a longsword, you shouldn't be taking the Oath. That's the whole point of taking the oath.. it's an act of devotion by fighting in Iomaedae's sole combat mode.| bodhranist |
The feat specifically allows you to use flame blade, a weapon-like, scimitar-shaped melee spell effect. If making attack rolls with that doesn't cause you to lose the benefits of the feat, it seems to suggest that what the oath is about is not holding and using a physically distinct, non-longsword weapon. If swinging your fist at someone while it holds a "magical blazing beam of red-hot fire" doesn't break the oath, then swinging that fist without the blazing beam should be no worse. Unarmed combat should be fine, combat maneuvers performed without using a weapon should be fine. Clubbing or trying to disarm someone someone with a candelabra wouldn't be fine, because you *picked it up and swung it*, like it was a physical weapon. Bull rush should be fine, I've always pictured it as a football-esque shoulder charge, just make sure to use the shoulder of your weapon arm and not your shield.
LazarX
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An oath is an oath... It's not something to be set aside because it's inconvenient, or because you didn't have the heart to truly show your devotion to Iomedae the Inheritor who smote evil just fine by using only her longsword for melee combat.
You really don't have any reason to take the oath, unless you intended to expand your longsword combat options with fighter feats. You don't have a ton of feats to spend on combat abilities as a cleric or paladin anyway.
blackbloodtroll
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LoneKnave wrote:So instead of fighting back when grappled, Iomedae just took it like a champ?Or maybe she read the grappling rules and then attacked the grappling creature with her longsword?
It can be quite difficult to do this.
Also, being disarmed is hell for such a PC.
Good thing Gunslingers screwed over Weapon Cords.
| Samasboy1 |
Jiggy wrote:It can be quite difficult to do this.LoneKnave wrote:So instead of fighting back when grappled, Iomedae just took it like a champ?Or maybe she read the grappling rules and then attacked the grappling creature with her longsword?
You can attack with a weapon in a grapple at a -2 penalty. You can't use a two handed weapon, but longsword is just fine.
Also, being disarmed is hell for such a PC.
Good thing Gunslingers screwed over Weapon Cords.
Draw another longsword?
Pick up the disarmed longsword?Use a spell, as allowed by the feat?
Use a locking gauntlet to prevent disarm?
Why couldn't you use a weapon cord (he disarms you, on your turn you get it back as a swift)?
Aberrant Templar
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Do Fighter levels stack with the feat? I.e., can a 4th level Fighter with Iomedaean Sword Oath qualify for Greater Weapon Focus (longsword)?
Not as written, no. The feat just lets you select longsword-related feats as if you were a 4th level fighter. It doesn't give you fighter levels, or let you stack cleric levels, or anything like that.
| Honorable Goblin |
LazarX
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Samasboy1 wrote:They changed weapon cords.*snip*
Why couldn't you use a weapon cord (he disarms you, on your turn you get it back as a swift)?
Which means it's only a move action to recover. Gunslingers were getting a bit silly with weapon cords, so they refined the item.
James Risner
Owner - D20 Hobbies
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Can I use Iomedaean Sword Oath with unarmed strikes, natural attacks, or improvised weapons?
It is going to be a pedantic day I guess. ;-)
No unless you consider Natural Weapons, Unarmed Strikes, and Improvised Weapons not weapons. If so, then Yes.
Not all options have to be uber. Sometimes an option is frustrating in some situations.