Greetings, fellow gamers.
We are currently running Rise of The Runelords, and during the encounter with Barl, I took too much a gamble(damn that evil DM die and crits :( ) and had my previous character die.
My rolled stats for a new one are 16,13,11,11,11,10. The party currently sorely lacks ranged abilities( we have a sword&board fighter, greataxe barbarian, a cleric of some sorts, and a twf rogue with 1-handed crossbows for some MEAGER damage at range).
While my original intent was either a zen archer 3/bard 5 or plain bard 8 (for some party support via inspire courage cookies and some knowledge splat, as my dead character was the knowledge monkey at the time).... I simply can't quite see how this could work for dealing ranged damage, with the stats I have rolled.
Other options I have available are straight zen-archer, shuriken STR-monk(kinda odd I think and doesn't quite click into working order still), paladin, ranger, druid and sorceror(we play by the 1 class per party, so no second fighter or rogue).
Standard WBL, Core only. Prestige classes from Core allowed.
Please help.
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wait core only, but you're adding archetypes?
if you are allowing archetypes, a sohei monk/ranger would be an immense damage dealer.
sohei 8/ranger x
you would have a ton of attacks per round, slight spell casting, high dpr, and skills. if you wanted to play a support character then i would suggest a ranged bard or inquisitor.
wait core only, but you're adding archetypes?
if you are allowing archetypes, a sohei monk/ranger would be an immense damage dealer.sohei 8/ranger x
you would have a ton of attacks per round, slight spell casting, high dpr, and skills. if you wanted to play a support character then i would suggest a ranged bard or inquisitor.
Well, things are somewhat ... strange regarding archetypes. Given the fact that the DM witnessed a Zen-Archer archetype, I ventured an educated guess he'd be ok with that.
Classes from APG, unfortunately, are not, so no Oracle or Inquisitor( had it been possible, my previous character would've been either a gunslinger or inquisitor).Also, regarding sohei, while I confess I never encountered one to witness it's prowess, it strikes me as somewhat ...not quite what I'd like, and mounted combat oriented. And dungeon crawls while on a mount are such a rare occurence that ... I'd just say no to that.
Zen archer on the other hand, strikes me as something quite proficient at "archery".
That being said, is it a viable character having 16 WIS and 13 STR ? I'd have to pump dex at lvl-ups, to get to 13 and grab deadly aim, wouldn't I ?
Thanks for the input.
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sohei is not a mounted character, it has class features that allow for a mounted character though. basically sohei and zen archer do the same thing, flurry with a bow, but a zen archer has a limitation that rapid shot and many shot dont function with their flurry.
so a zen archer gets 4 attacks at 8th level + haste and a ki point, while a sohei would have 5 attacks at 8th with haste and and a ki point, at 9 th level you would gain a 6th attack(many shot). making the sohei much better at killing things with a low ac.
by taking ranger later on, you gain the ability to intergrate favored enemy, with instant enemy, into your build allowing for a bane weapon and a super high to hit. by 12th level you would have a higher to hit then a solid fighter of the same level when using instant enemy and a full attack action.
but if you dont like the idea behing the sohei, then just go zen archer, they are almost as good.
i would rather skip deadly aim as monks dont have static bonuses to offset the penalties to attack like a fighter or ranger would have. put your 16 in wisdom, 13 in strength, 11 in con. knock up your strength to a 14, constitution to 12, then focus on stacking wisdom and con.
Yeah, I see your points. It's just that sohei drops lots of bonus cookies, like fast movement and slow fall. And given that our party's motto is "every cowards for himself, hit the meat in a can<- strong hint at the fighter", fast movement is nigh mandatory :)
That and there's a lot of what-ifs going about which is better. Zen gets W Focus+ W Specialization, Sohei gets W training at 6ths elvel. So Deadly Aim isn't totally out of way, it's just more situational. IMO, that is.
Nonetheless, your input is greatly valued, I overlooked an archetype that now has some value, should the possibility arise(both fluff and mechanics-wise).
Thank you.
Also, please, anyone else having thought on the matter, feel free to share them in a civil(and preferably explained) manner.
Well, it would seem educated guesses are subject to DM fiat even more than normal guesses :/
What are my options with CORE ONLY ? I for some reason totally don't wanna do sorceror or ranger, and I don't see any options to viably deal sustained damage at range, given the new circumstances.
The only 3 options I know of that would give enough feats for ranged splat and some extra are other made from unobtanium, or from dontwantium. And grabbing a class that would have 4 feats for lvl 8 and just have ranged ones... flat out NO-NO. Even paladins :/
It probably isn't at all what you want, but have you considered being a wizard? Magic would give you decent ranged and buffing abilities.
It probably isn't at all what you want, but have you considered being a wizard? Magic would give you decent ranged and buffing abilities.
You just had to rub it in :(
The character that died was a wizard. And the rest of the party fled, so no resurrection/reincarnation.
And because of the "no last played class" rule, I can't pick a wizard. I enjoyed playing it, somehow even had a chance for some RP, which I don't envision with a sorceror(I think I like the "like a sir" attitude my character had).
I think I'll just make a druid. And reincarnate my previous character, should the option arise :)
My rolled stats for a new one are 16,13,11,11,11,10.
While my original intent was either a zen archer 3/bard 5 or plain bard 8 (for some party support via inspire courage cookies and some knowledge splat, as my dead character was the knowledge monkey at the time).... I simply can't quite see how this could work for dealing ranged damage, with the stats I have rolled.
Standard WBL, Core only. Prestige classes from Core allowed.
Please help.
Zen Archer and Bard don't mesh at all. The restrictions you have are very limiting.
Have you considered a Paladin with a bow?
Race: Human
11/13/10/11/10/16+2 (+2 from levels)
Bard 1: for Arcane Strike but based off of your highest casting (Paladin - 4 at the moment) and Inspire Courage
Paladin 7: Smite everything
Feats: Deadly Aim, Arcane Strike, Point Blank Shot, Precise Shot, Rapid Shot/Toughness/Extra Performance
Or you could just go Paladin 8 with the same feats (except extra performance)
(And without arcane strike, obviously)
If archetypes are allowed i would look at Bard (Dawnflower Dervish) 6 Paladin (Divine Hunter)2 with those stats i'd go
Human
12 Str 11 +1 lvl 8
18 Dex 16 +2 race
10 Con 10
11 Int 11
11 Wis 11
14 Cha 13 +1 lvl 4
Feats
1st (Paladin) Point Blank Shot, Precise Shot, Deadly Aim
3rd Rapid Shot
5th Arcane Strike
7th Many Shot
So at 8th with a bow you'll be +6/+6/+1 but can dervish dance (16 rounds/day) to add +4 to hit and damage and smite 1/day for +2 to hit and +2 to damage ignoring DR. Add the spells Allegro and Heroism (lasts an hour for you) you total out at (Without smite)
+13(x2)/+13/+13/+8 dmg 1d8+10 without any magic items.
With the added bonus of melee with a scimitar and those buffs running at
+17/+17/+12 dmg 1d6+10
Here's what I would suggest:
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Human Urban Barbarian 2 / Archer 6
Heart of the Fields alternate racial trait
Attributes:
STR 11
DEX 16 (+2 racial bonus)
CON 13 (+1 at 4th)
INT 11
WIS 11 (+1 at 8th)
CHA 10
Traits:
Berserker of the Society
Auspicious Tattoo
Feats:
1st (UB1) - Extra Rage, Point Blank Shot
2nd (UB2) - Auspicious Mark or Reckless Abandon (Rage Power)
3rd (F1) - Rapid Shot, Precise Shot
4th (F2) - Weapon Focus: Longbow
5th (F3) - Deadly Aim
6th (F4) - Manyshot
7th (F5) - Weapon Specialization: Longbow
8th (F6) - Improved Critical: Longbow
With Urban Barbarian you can gain +4 to your Dexterity (or your Constitution) instead of your Strength and don't suffer an AC penalty when raging. That boosts your AC by +2 as well as your attack bonus by +2 whenever you are raging. With this build as is you'll get 17 rounds of Rage per day which should be good for at least 3 combat encounters is used wisely.
I like Auspicious Mark as the Rage Power because it has so many uses - some even out of combat. If you need to complete a difficult skill check (like Stealth) You can Rage for a round, boost Dex and then use Auspicious Mark to give you an additional +1d6. If you need to make a Fort save against poison or disease, you Rage for a round, boost Con and then use the mark to give you an additional +1d6 on the saving throw. If that doesn't appeal to you then I recommend Reckless Abandon which will completely offset the attack penalty from Deadly Aim.
At 8th level, while raging using the build above, your full attack chain will be:
Attack: +15(x2)/+10
+8/+3 [BAB] +4 [Dex] +2 [Rage] +1 [Focus] +1 [Point Blank] -2 [Rapid Shot] -3 [Deadly Aim] +3 [Reckless Abandon] +1 [Expert Archer]
Damage: 1d8+10 per attack
1d8 [Bow] +1 [Point Blank] +2 [Specialization] +6 [Deadly Aim] +1 [Expert Archer]
Keep in mind that none of the above includes magical equipment. A belt that boosts Dex or Strength (or both) and a magical bow would obviously increase both damage and accuracy.
I also like to take the Invulnerable Rager archetype which stacks with Urban Barbarian and will grant you a nice little DR 1/- to go along with everything else. The first two levels of duo-Barbarian, along with the Extra Rage feat and the Traits listed is actually part of a special 'combat school' we created in my campaign - after those two levels you can continue on in any martial class and still enjoy its benefits.
wow, now we're talking.
after much discussions, zen archer/paladin was accepted (sorry Bertious, but I don't want to engage in another debate for bard archetype/paladin build, altho it looks nice).
I intend to go paladin 1,2/zen archer 6/paladin all the way when the EXP comes.
With that, I get Precise Shot, PBShot, Weap focus (shortbow), Weap Spec (shortbow), Deadly Aim, Rapid Shot, Point Blank Master, edited Improved precise Shot,some 2 extra feats I'm still considering, better saves(looking at 10 fort, 7 ref, 10 will), good touch armor and greater mobility.
I intend to play a halfling, so looking for something like this
10 STR 11-2 racial(+1 went here at lvl 4)
15 DEX 13+2 racial
10 CON
11 INT
16 WIS
14 CHA 11+2 racial(+1 here at lvl 8)
Only thing that confuses me is how do I work with flurry. LVL 6 flurry of blows would make it +6/+6/+1 with the bow, while Rapid Shot at +4/-1/?
Rapid shot gives one attack at highest bonus, right ?
I think that eventually Rapid shot will outgrow flurry, given that monk remains at 6 levels.
Of course I seem to flunk out on manyshot for a lot of time .. maybe shift some stats around and get that DEX 17 ?
Of course, it would seem I have less to hit and damage ( +2 to hit, +2 to damage), and no buffs, but still workable, right ?
Edited, missed out a feat(made it bold )
A +2 dex belt will qualify you for manyshot
Here's what I would suggest:
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Human Urban Barbarian 2 / Archer 6 <- 2 archetypes a big nono, as experience shows
also I think I mentioned that no doubling classes, and I recall Archer being an archetype of fighter, of which we have one. And we have a barbarian as well.Heart of the Fields alternate racial trait - still subject to DM approval, and i don't think he likes being pestered THAT much yet ..
cut cut cut
Traits: My bad, but I forgot to mention no traits :(
Berserker of the Society
Auspicious Tattoo
While being a solid build, it doesn't fit into my tight limitations on classes :(
Still, I just think I'll copy all of your builds for further reference. I didn't quite consider there were that many options to consider(well, I WAS outright avoiding any fighter/ranger/barbarian stuff)
A +2 dex belt will qualify you for manyshot
It would ? I always thought that only your ... "natural" stats qualify you for feats. Or would lack of said belt make manyshot unusable as well ?
Here's what I would suggest:
cut cut cut
Human Urban Barbarian 2 / Archer 6 <- 2 archetypes a big nono, as experience shows
also I think I mentioned that no doubling classes, and I recall Archer being an archetype of fighter, of which we have one. And we have a barbarian as well.Heart of the Fields alternate racial trait - still subject to DM approval, and i don't think he likes being pestered THAT much yet ..
cut cut cut
Traits: My bad, but I forgot to mention no traits :(
Berserker of the Society
Auspicious TattooWhile being a solid build, it doesn't fit into my tight limitations on classes :(
Still, I just think I'll copy all of your builds for further reference. I didn't quite consider there were that many options to consider(well, I WAS outright avoiding any fighter/ranger/barbarian stuff)
Yeah, its pretty hard to say 'I want a character capable of dealing damage at range' but I don't want a Wizard, Sorcerer, Fighter, Barbarian or Ranger...
Yeah, its pretty hard to say 'I want a character capable of dealing damage at range' but I don't want a Wizard, Sorcerer, Fighter, Barbarian or Ranger...
sure is ...
While my original intent was either a zen archer 3/bard 5 or plain bard 8
Other options I have are straight zen-archer, shuriken STR-monk(kinda odd I think and doesn't quite click into working order still), paladin, ranger, druid and sorceror(we play by the 1 class per party, so ).
While I did mention my options in my initial post, I find it understandable that someone might miss that.
And after posting I was biased towards ruling out ranger and sorceror..And I clarified in later posts that I actually had a wizard die on me, and couldn't make another one.
But that's just me nitpicking probably.
That rule hinders a lot our options, but then again, 6 players' party for RotRL ... grab a completely synergistic party and Xanesha whimpers on first encounter.
PS. I try to be civil, and unless specified, my post is not intended to be snarling out at fellow forum-visitors, drip sarcasm and spew utter nonsensical gibberish ;)
Long story short...
I was allowed to make a zen archer/paladin. And while I'm stretching it a bit with choosing a god to worship(still considering), I'm ok. Tho I'm still thinking what would be better, a straight 8th lvl zen archer, or like I did it , zen 6/pal 2(which has better saves+ LOH+ Detect evil) ... but that's the munchkin speaking, perhaps ...
Well, thanks for your time.