We're discussing a druid20 casting antilife shell , which has Area "10-ft.-radius emanation, centered on you" totally negating an AT LEAST Large monk10/druid10 with Reach at least 10 exactly in what manner ?
That's provided he doesn't for some odd reason choose to go elemental out of pure frustration.
You do realize this is ground for endless debate and DM fiat, but antilife shell isn't an end all, be all spell?
Taking flight and blasting away, or something like that, is still pretty valid for the druid20.
I am unsure why on earth the shadows would not be able to see a dragon, please clarify?
Because in a red dragon lair there'll be very heavy smoke, like that in pyrotechnics. The issue has been solved for the casters themselves through use of a Goz Mask, but that won't help the shadows.
And why is it the casters are summoning shadows some miles away from the dragon, but not RIGHT NEXT TO IT, where the shadows have visibility of it?
It's smoke(think solid fog), not heightened Deeper Darkness with jamming in case of Echolocation, Blindsight, Blindsense and associates.
If you wish to be so nit-picky, would a Wish for the shadows to threaten a critical suffice(no pun intended)?
Or(to not be that greedy) the dragon to have lowered touch AC?
All that being said, might it be easier to take an approach from the other side.
Considering your very wishful, clingy and blatantly abusive of the DM's patience and good manners take on invisibility+stealth:
I just hope he says fine, have it your way. And then next day you get ambushed by 3 ogres with invisibility cast on them with 1 rank in Stealth(obviously stealthing while invisible). Good luck with that Perception 40+ DC.
As ShadowcatX mentioned, we are humans, so let's use our head a bit before making ludicrous assumptions that momentarily favor our PCs.
I don't see any mentions of the bonus to stealth mentioned in various places stack(unlike precise statements of DR, AC stacking for example).
Invisibility is just a spell that gives you the invisible status. For all lazybones' convenience, they just doubled their +20/40 to stealth text, to make sure that people with invisible don't forget that.
NOW, the big part: had the boss cast See Invisibility , you would be treated as visible, so straight Stealth check vs. Perception check, no bonus from Invisibility. Your case : 23 Stealth vs. whatever total Perception he had.
This may have been a problem of lack of reasoning abilities, or meek character, or something else, but for all purposes and intents, See Invisibility TOTALLY counters Invisibility(consider having ONLY this 2 spells cast, to keep it simple).
Any other way around is just you pushing the DM to something not RAI(and somewhat arguably RAW) and into the "I WIN" button territory. And remember, for every Invisibility you have, he can cast 10 and handwave the sudden surge of spellcasters. Are you sure you want an arms race?
Does it matter that much ? You said the fight ended without much loss regardless, why stir the bee's nest now ? Learn to accept DM decisions without crying "foul" on every corner.
PS. To address your "moving on"
Invisibility grants a static +20 to Stealth checks(you know, the stuff you roll opposed to Perception). That's the static +20 in the table for Stealthing characters(d20+20 check). That's the DC20 perception to spot creatures NOT using Stealth. It's not a double dip. You don't get to add up various parts of the table together however you see fit. If you did, a city wall(DC30) with a knotted rope(DC5) next to it might have a Climb DC of 35, not 5. See where I'm going at ?
You can revive someone killed by a death effect or someone who has been turned into an undead creature and then destroyed. This spell can also resurrect elementals or outsiders, but it can't resurrect constructs or undead creatures.
Even true resurrection can't restore to life a creature who has died of old age.
So undead is a no-no. Thing is, reincarnate requires a part of body to cast upon(Target dead creature touched), so a combination of aging the target and stashing the body away seems pretty solid way to rid oneself of that pesky paladin.
Or, for that matter, so does aging him to death, burning and then scattering the ashes during a thunderstorm.
Well, let's give it a late entrance try(mind you, English is not my native language, and while I do try to keep it civil and mistake-free, either Varsuvius or typo-monster splashes might occur :( )
Lanliss Windhowl, LE Elf Alchemist(mindchemist archetype)
Stats : 25 point-buy:
STR 10(0)
DEX 15(7)+2 racial= 17
CON 14(5)-2 racial= 12
INT 18(17)+2 racial= 20
WIS 10(0)
CHA 7(-4)
Crime:
High Treason
You have willfully worked to bring down the current Monarch of Talingarde -- the beloved King Markadian V called the Brave of House Darius. To be successfully tried for High Treason you have done more than merely dislike the king, you did something tangible to undermine his rule. Alas, that you failed at your plot and are now headed to Branderscar Prison. Treason is the only crime that is still punished by the gruesome ritual of being drawn and quartered. Your stay at Branderscar will be brief.
Punishment: Death by drawing and quartering
Benefit: You receive a +1 trait bonus to Will saves.
Backstory:
Although not born to the city of Talingarde, Lanliss spent most of his time in the city.
At the tender age of 8, he witnessed his parents getting arrested, trialed for trying to escape and swiftly executed by an overzealous patrol led by a human paladin of Mitra. His distrust of humans from that moment onward has spurred him into becoming a reclusive sort of guy no one calls to the party.
Some 20 years later, he happened to catch a glimpse of the paladin that was leading that fateful patrol, now a middle-aged respectable member of society. At that time he swore on his soul he'd concoct a poison so vile, it would carry on through generations, providing excruciating pain and endless torture to the paladin's offspring. All that was left was finding out exactly WHO was that paladin and how would he be able to reach him.
A logical place to search was in fact, the town hall, for it was presumably easier to gain access to than the paladin chapter house. After scouting out the layout of the surrounding alleys, patrol routes and town hall corridors(to the best of his abilities), he, having hired a rogue to open the lock on a service door, entered the town hall.
Lanliss was studying the records in one of the record rooms for a good 30 minutes when a sudden cough near the door startled him enough to tilt the lantern he had over and spill oil on some shelves, igniting them into a soon to be raging devastating fire. He quickly ran out of the room, tossing a couple of his bombs at the guardsmen who were readying to enter, and them some more on doors he encountered while he was running towards his planned exit, only to be stopped by backup and taken to jail. The next day, his plan for revenge stalled, his most promising source of information gone, he was judged for burning 2 record rooms full of history of elder citizens of the city and by decree of the judge, sentenced to be quartered shortly.
The fate of her sorceror character would indicate otherwise(conspiracy fanboys - it's time to yell it's a gimmick to have her play the dervish char ;) )
That aside, the friendship dance of death sound nice.
Play your magus out, and don't go out of your way just because someone else wants to dervish dance as well. If the DM is good, he'll play this through, if he's not ... at least you'll know he's not :)
Long story short...
I was allowed to make a zen archer/paladin. And while I'm stretching it a bit with choosing a god to worship(still considering), I'm ok. Tho I'm still thinking what would be better, a straight 8th lvl zen archer, or like I did it , zen 6/pal 2(which has better saves+ LOH+ Detect evil) ... but that's the munchkin speaking, perhaps ...
Yeah, its pretty hard to say 'I want a character capable of dealing damage at range' but I don't want a Wizard, Sorcerer, Fighter, Barbarian or Ranger...
sure is ...
Ignitorius wrote:
While my original intent was either a zen archer 3/bard 5 or plain bard 8
Other options I have available are straight zen-archer, shuriken STR-monk(kinda odd I think and doesn't quite click into working order still), paladin, ranger, druid and sorceror(we play by the 1 class per party, so no second fighter or rogue).
While I did mention my options in my initial post, I find it understandable that someone might miss that.
And after posting I was biased towards ruling out ranger and sorceror..
And I clarified in later posts that I actually had a wizard die on me, and couldn't make another one.
But that's just me nitpicking probably.
That rule hinders a lot our options, but then again, 6 players' party for RotRL ... grab a completely synergistic party and Xanesha whimpers on first encounter.
PS. I try to be civil, and unless specified, my post is not intended to be snarling out at fellow forum-visitors, drip sarcasm and spew utter nonsensical gibberish ;)
Human Urban Barbarian 2 / Archer 6 <- 2 archetypes a big nono, as experience shows
also I think I mentioned that no doubling classes, and I recall Archer being an archetype of fighter, of which we have one. And we have a barbarian as well.
Heart of the Fields alternate racial trait - still subject to DM approval, and i don't think he likes being pestered THAT much yet ..
cut cut cut
Traits: My bad, but I forgot to mention no traits :(
Berserker of the Society
Auspicious Tattoo
While being a solid build, it doesn't fit into my tight limitations on classes :(
Still, I just think I'll copy all of your builds for further reference. I didn't quite consider there were that many options to consider(well, I WAS outright avoiding any fighter/ranger/barbarian stuff)
wow, now we're talking.
after much discussions, zen archer/paladin was accepted (sorry Bertious, but I don't want to engage in another debate for bard archetype/paladin build, altho it looks nice).
I intend to go paladin 1,2/zen archer 6/paladin all the way when the EXP comes.
With that, I get Precise Shot, PBShot, Weap focus (shortbow), Weap Spec (shortbow), Deadly Aim, Rapid Shot, Point Blank Master, editedImproved precise Shot,some 2 extra feats I'm still considering, better saves(looking at 10 fort, 7 ref, 10 will), good touch armor and greater mobility.
I intend to play a halfling, so looking for something like this
10 STR 11-2 racial(+1 went here at lvl 4)
15 DEX 13+2 racial
10 CON
11 INT
16 WIS
14 CHA 11+2 racial(+1 here at lvl 8)
Only thing that confuses me is how do I work with flurry. LVL 6 flurry of blows would make it +6/+6/+1 with the bow, while Rapid Shot at +4/-1/?
Rapid shot gives one attack at highest bonus, right ?
I think that eventually Rapid shot will outgrow flurry, given that monk remains at 6 levels.
Of course I seem to flunk out on manyshot for a lot of time .. maybe shift some stats around and get that DEX 17 ?
Of course, it would seem I have less to hit and damage ( +2 to hit, +2 to damage), and no buffs, but still workable, right ?
It probably isn't at all what you want, but have you considered being a wizard? Magic would give you decent ranged and buffing abilities.
You just had to rub it in :(
The character that died was a wizard. And the rest of the party fled, so no resurrection/reincarnation.
And because of the "no last played class" rule, I can't pick a wizard. I enjoyed playing it, somehow even had a chance for some RP, which I don't envision with a sorceror(I think I like the "like a sir" attitude my character had).
I think I'll just make a druid. And reincarnate my previous character, should the option arise :)
Well, it would seem educated guesses are subject to DM fiat even more than normal guesses :/
What are my options with CORE ONLY ? I for some reason totally don't wanna do sorceror or ranger, and I don't see any options to viably deal sustained damage at range, given the new circumstances.
The only 3 options I know of that would give enough feats for ranged splat and some extra are other made from unobtanium, or from dontwantium. And grabbing a class that would have 4 feats for lvl 8 and just have ranged ones... flat out NO-NO. Even paladins :/
Yeah, I see your points. It's just that sohei drops lots of bonus cookies, like fast movement and slow fall. And given that our party's motto is "every cowards for himself, hit the meat in a can<- strong hint at the fighter", fast movement is nigh mandatory :)
That and there's a lot of what-ifs going about which is better. Zen gets W Focus+ W Specialization, Sohei gets W training at 6ths elvel. So Deadly Aim isn't totally out of way, it's just more situational. IMO, that is.
Nonetheless, your input is greatly valued, I overlooked an archetype that now has some value, should the possibility arise(both fluff and mechanics-wise).
Thank you.
Also, please, anyone else having thought on the matter, feel free to share them in a civil(and preferably explained) manner.
if you are allowing archetypes, a sohei monk/ranger would be an immense damage dealer.
sohei 8/ranger x
you would have a ton of attacks per round, slight spell casting, high dpr, and skills. if you wanted to play a support character then i would suggest a ranged bard or inquisitor.
Well, things are somewhat ... strange regarding archetypes. Given the fact that the DM witnessed a Zen-Archer archetype, I ventured an educated guess he'd be ok with that.
Classes from APG, unfortunately, are not, so no Oracle or Inquisitor( had it been possible, my previous character would've been either a gunslinger or inquisitor).
Also, regarding sohei, while I confess I never encountered one to witness it's prowess, it strikes me as somewhat ...not quite what I'd like, and mounted combat oriented. And dungeon crawls while on a mount are such a rare occurence that ... I'd just say no to that.
Zen archer on the other hand, strikes me as something quite proficient at "archery".
That being said, is it a viable character having 16 WIS and 13 STR ? I'd have to pump dex at lvl-ups, to get to 13 and grab deadly aim, wouldn't I ?
We are currently running Rise of The Runelords, and during the encounter with Barl, I took too much a gamble(damn that evil DM die and crits :( ) and had my previous character die.
My rolled stats for a new one are 16,13,11,11,11,10. The party currently sorely lacks ranged abilities( we have a sword&board fighter, greataxe barbarian, a cleric of some sorts, and a twf rogue with 1-handed crossbows for some MEAGER damage at range).
While my original intent was either a zen archer 3/bard 5 or plain bard 8 (for some party support via inspire courage cookies and some knowledge splat, as my dead character was the knowledge monkey at the time).... I simply can't quite see how this could work for dealing ranged damage, with the stats I have rolled.
Other options I have available are straight zen-archer, shuriken STR-monk(kinda odd I think and doesn't quite click into working order still), paladin, ranger, druid and sorceror(we play by the 1 class per party, so no second fighter or rogue).
Standard WBL, Core only. Prestige classes from Core allowed.
