First Steps Part 3: A Vision of Betrayal

[Phillip Goettsch]

I am getting ready to run this adventure and without spoiling anything I have a couple of questions about overland travel and the use of environmental effects.

As I have never played this scenario I was wondering if most GM's require survival checks of the party to determine if they become lost. It seems to me that with the provided items the party should be able to easily accomplish this task and stay on course, but I could see how with poor rolls and loose reins a party could end up in Osiria or some place else as crazy!

*wink*

So basically I would like to know if the rules from the Pathfinder Core Rulebook (page 424) with regard to getting lost were used when you played or GMed this scenario.

Before you get rankled about me leading a party astray and using 2 to 3 hours of play time making continued survival checks as the party becomes more and more astray, I would be reasonable. I was expecting that the DCs for the checks would actually be quite low due to the circumstances and if too many "unlucky" rolls were made I would simply "nudge" the party in the correct direction to keep the game on track and fun.

Please let me know your thoughts on this aspect of wilderness adventures.

[TriOmegaZero]

I didn't even think about this when I ran it. Since it does say that the area before and after the mountains are trackless, they should have to roll checks to avoid getting lost.

[nosig]

As this one always runs long... I would pause before "adding in" additional rolls. (yes-yes, I realize that they should likely be there. I've just never run with them or played with them in effect for theis scenario). That said - if there was a out-doorsy survival PC (like a ranger or druid), I might have them do some skill checks. (Take 10 or roll? anyone aid him? Kn: Geography?). Give them a feeling that they "kept the party on track". Maybe they find the shrine while climbing to a high point "to get a look at the lay of the land". Just remember - watch the time. Skill checks, getting lost, etc. can really burn game time. If the players like it, run with it. If not... skip it.
(IMHO).

[Phillip Goettsch]

That is really what I was thinking. Thank you both for your opinions.

[Gwen Smith]

I'm prepping this scenario to run this weekend, and I have a very similar question, but from the opposite direction.

When I first ran this scenario as a player, I actually played a caravan guide (Exploration domain cleric with high survival, Knowledge Geography & Nature, Profession Navigator, craft Maps, etc.) AND I dropped a nat 20 on my survival check to make sure we packed everything we needed to get through the mountains. None of our cold weather preparations helped, though, and we still needed to get the stove from the wagon.

As a player, that was kind of frustrating. So as a GM, should I bother having the players make skill checks when I know they aren't going to make any difference? Or is there some way to legally adjust the scenario so that the ranger actually matters?

[kinevon]

Remember that the successful skill checks can add things like a +2 circumstance bonus.

Main thing sthat you, as a GM can do, is, when the PC gets a good result on a check like that, make sure that you "remind" the PCs about conditions that they might face.

"So, Kevin, you got a 32 on your Survival check? Well, as you hit the stores for supplies, you see several items that you think might prove useful." Cold weather outfits, a couple of Heat Stoves (UE), maybe a reminder about the benefits of the Endure Elements spell, etc...

I currently have at least two PCs with Wands of Endure Elements....

[Phillip Goettsch]

I have completed the scenario and due to an unfortunate late start and time constraints of the venue I did have to clip the survival checks for getting lost. Additionally, some other aspected were adjusted to permit the group to complete the scenario, I have included these in a spoiler below.

spoiler:

With regard to the cold weather scenario, the players took the cue that since many of the peaks in the range were snow capped that there was likely cold weather on the trail. They all purchased cold weather gear before departing. Additionally they did find the stove in the wagon and the fighter did very well with a survival check giving himself and 3 other party members that bonus. With regard to the stove, it only provides a +2 bonus to the check and is a minor feature. All told, four of the five party members had a +13 bonus to their fortitude saves and the fifth had a +9. Due to some unfortunate rolls, one member did become unconscious due to cold exposure (he must have slept near the wagons flap!)

Besides the cold weather stuff, I have also seen some concern for the first portion of the swamp area. I elected to clip the optional "encounter" due to time constraints, but the party did make use of a longspear to check footing. I think this optional encounter could be more deadly than the cold exposure if not monitored by the GM closely.

I hope to have a chance to run this scenario in the future, fully utilizing the trackless wilderness and optional encounters. I feel that they will add a significant spice to the adventure that was missing during my shortened run yesterday.

[SlimGauge]

Now that I've been through this scenario as a player, I'm preparing to run it for my usual group the next time we need a "filler".

Spoiler:

Our problem was that the wagon only holds five medium creatures. One of those gets taken up by the NPC the party is supposed to be safeguarding, so that means that someone's outside.

The other problem is that our horses were in serious danger of freezing. We actually made makeshift horse-blankets out of regular blankets and unused cold weather gear (as we all had it before departing, making the three sets found in the wagon "extra").

We were running short of time, so the "Optional" bit was not included.

[TriOmegaZero]

Slim, maybe suggest that they have a rotating guard shift, so one person is outside on guard and the rest are in the wagon.

[SlimGauge]

When I was a player, the one character that actually had survival elected to stay outside in order to aid his (expensive) horse so that he didn't lose it, so it didn't come up. Even so, the cleric had to channel several times that morning because even my hardy donkey had failed at least one save.

[nosig]

I ran this for a group that had two small characters - with dogs.
Yeah - it was a two dog night.