If your running a game and you know that the enemy...
say a dragon.
has potions of healing
or a want of protection from arrows
or some other consumable item.
do you allow your monsters to use those items in a reasonable way. or are they party loot and the monsters never touch it?
[spoiler]personally I let my monsters use them. if its something like a wand then the monsters use of the items counts (wand with 50 charges used 6 times comes to the party with 44 charges remaining) however if its a one time thing... like a potion I will generally let the monster use them but then it just so happens that there is another one in the loot for the party to take.
I usually have problems when the monster gets away the first time and faces the party again after a heal or some form of chase. then I have to wonder... why would the dragon NOT use a potion of protection knowing the group was full of good paladins or bow users or a sommoner or something. [spoiler]
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Oh I let my monsters use them if they are readily accessible.
- Gauss
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of course they are ! what the point of not using it ? BTW, most of the npc are using their stuff in the different modules of Paizo. So why the monster should not ?
More than that, I add special magic item that can be used only by them. For example, a huge brooch that increase the flying maneuvrability of a dragon.
If your running a game and you know that the enemy...
say a dragon.
has potions of healing
or a want of protection from arrows
or some other consumable item.
do you allow your monsters to use those items in a reasonable way. or are they party loot and the monsters never touch it?
Spoiler:personally I let my monsters use them. if its something like a wand then the monsters use of the items counts (wand with 50 charges used 6 times comes to the party with 44 charges remaining) however if its a one time thing... like a potion I will generally let the monster use them but then it just so happens that there is another one in the loot for the party to take.I usually have problems when the monster gets away the first time and faces the party again after a heal or some form of chase. then I have to wonder... why would the dragon NOT use a potion of protection knowing the group was full of good paladins or bow users or a sommoner or something.
Fixed that.
Personally if it is an NPC with NPC WBL then I use their Magical Gear if it is a potion then it is gone if they use it. Same with Wands the charges are gone.
A dragon... Maybe I will use a wand with them... Potions not so much... it is hard to justify a dragon drinking a tiny little vial after a certain point...
If you use these things with moderation, you should be fine. After all, this gear is not for show, and opponents can use their stuff just as well as the PCs do.
However, don't overdo things.
If your dragon has virtually no coins, gems or jewelry, but has its complete hoard in form of equippable and usable gear, the resulting fight probably will be a tad under-CRed.
If the primary treasure of your low-level baddies consists of consumables (which they, of course, will use against the party), the characters will face enemies who are tougher than their CR, for lower rewards than the CR. Which may clash with your group's sense of fairness.
Whether of not you decrease the number of charges on a wand (I usually don't; I just define the wand has e.g. 7 charges left when the PCs get their paws on it, and that's it) is pretty much up to you.
Yes, if it is appropriate for the monster to do so. If using the items affects the monster's abilities in a way that makes it as difficult as a higher-CR encounter, the party gets increased XP accordingly.
Most low level NPCs shouldn't really have Consumable Items at least not that many...
If your running a game and you know that the enemy...
say a dragon.
has potions of healing
or a want of protection from arrows
or some other consumable item.
do you allow your monsters to use those items in a reasonable way. or are they party loot and the monsters never touch it?
** spoiler omitted **
Fixed that.
Personally if it is an NPC with NPC WBL then I use their Magical Gear if it is a potion then it is gone if they use it. Same with Wands the charges are gone.
A dragon... Maybe I will use a wand with them... Potions not so much... it is hard to justify a dragon drinking a tiny little vial after a certain point...
This just happened in our Campaign.. fighting a Dragon and it escaped..now we are worried the Dragon might drink Potions of resistance or other buffs and mess up our tactics.
I'd say it much depends on the monster and the loot.
Why has the monster the stuff? Is it it's own? Did it take it from a dead foe?
In some cases the monster might not know what the item does.
Sure most dragons will have enough spellcraft to identify a potion, but will he bother with doing it?
A party of bandits with a fighter/rogue as leader on the other hand might not have the options to identify a potion. But if they have one that already is identified they'll use it.
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A common trait of dragons is insurmountable arrogance. They might feel that using magic items to improve their prowess is to admit weakness.
Most Dragons are also far more intelligent than most humans. If they know of a party's tactics, they will prepare for said tactics.
yes, in fact just last session
KM spoiler
so indeed, if they can they should
Did you increase the encounter's CR to accommodate the improvements the items granted?
Did you increase the encounter's CR to accommodate the improvements the items granted?
A monster's treasure is part of its CR.
Intelligent monsters are assumed to be using some of their treasure (but not all; for instance, a Dragon would have vast amounts of its treasure in the form of coins and gems that it could sleep on).
How do you deal with random encounters? I normally generate treasure afterwards which has lead to some interesting "why didn't it use that magic weapon' moments.
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A monster's treasure is part of its CR.
Then, what good are the tables that cross-index damage, AC, hp, and whatnot with CR?
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Yes, they do. Only if they have time for it (not as rare as you'd think), but they do it.
Also, for a designer's intent sort of thing (or at least a closely related one), this post by James Jacobs is both relevant, and more or less how I do things. Mostly, anyway.
If, say a dragon, uses items from its hoard and their benefits equal more or less the benefits from the advanced creature template I raise its CR by 1.
This way I keep the encounter difficulty fair.
Certain creatures like bugbears, sahuagin and so on rely on using gear. Other monstrous creatures, mainly the higher CR ones, normally do not. The foes in the game are however as variable as the dm determines. If you're allowing a creature which normally doesn't use magic items to do so for a certain encounter, knock down some of its racial bonuses and abilites to keep the CR from changing. This means that if you stick a base CR 15 white dragon in +3 fullplate, ring of protection +4 and so on, make sure you raise the CR to account for the extra bonuses and abilites. Otherwise, you're ripping the players off their full deserved amount of xp. Lastly, be careful how much you beef the encounter through such items. I've seen some dms go a bit too zealous with it and caused a flat-out tpk. Battle wasn't even close. No one had a good time.
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If a dragon has a hoard that has plenty of ac boosting items, its ac can rise above what the party can hit.
So beef monsters with their hoard if you like, but be careful to do it in moderation.
Perhaps a dragon laughing and gulping a potion would be cool, then it says, "Guess what heroes? That was a potion of heroism. Hur hur hur" *breath weapon*
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I base it on the NPC's background. NOTE: I consider all monsters as NPCs.
I have/had a Young Adult Copper Dragon who has a suit of +1 Full Plate and other magical items. His CR is probably +3. As he grows his items increase in power. The reason is he witnessed his father slain and realized if his father had used the items in his horde and bought more items to use he wouldn't have fallen.
His father on the other hand was arrogant and figured no mere Humans could defeat him.
The NPC WBL chart if memory serves has a consumable items category which is meant to be used up...
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A monster's treasure is part of its CR.Then, what good are the tables that cross-index damage, AC, hp, and whatnot with CR?
The CR of a creature include his equipment. A typical human or demi-huma has half of a PC WBL and use it. With that equipment his CR is 1 point lower than his class level. With PC level WLB his CFR is equal to his class level.
Those tables are guidelines as a lot of the GM stuff. If you take them as gospel there are good chances that your monsters will be over or under powered for the CR.
An NPC with an NPC class has a CR of Character Level -2. An NPC with PC classes has a CR of Character Level -1.
NPC classes use the NPC WBL while PC classes use PC WBL. If I remember the charts correctly.
NPC classes use the NPC WBL while PC classes use PC WBL. If I remember the charts correctly.
No, classed NPCs typically use the NPC WBL chart. Those with NPC classes use the "Basic Level" to determine their gear, while those with PC classes use the "Heroic Level" to determine their gear.
Oh yeah! But that's part of the fun imho, taking the sword/wand/etc away from the bad guys before they can take YOU out with it adds an extra layer of excitement.
Yes, if it's immediately useful to them.
In general (I realize there are some overpowered creatures) I think that the CRs are too high. If the monsters can buff themselves or otherwise use their loot to make them tougher, it usually just makes the combat more interesting. In the case of dragons, I play that every dragon is an epic adversary. It should use whatever is at its disposal to make the fight hard. My players have learned to plan accordingly and have been very inventive in their combats. It feels to me that the loot is then earned.
Of course if this magical plate was made to fit a dragon, it's probably not going to see much use by the party who takes him down.I base it on the NPC's background. NOTE: I consider all monsters as NPCs.
I have/had a Young Adult Copper Dragon who has a suit of +1 Full Plate and other magical items. His CR is probably +3. As he grows his items increase in power. The reason is he witnessed his father slain and realized if his father had used the items in his horde and bought more items to use he wouldn't have fallen.
His father on the other hand was arrogant and figured no mere Humans could defeat him.
IIRC all magic items resize to their owners. Except maybe weapons. I could be wrong Though...
NPC classes use the NPC WBL while PC classes use PC WBL. If I remember the charts correctly.No, classed NPCs typically use the NPC WBL chart. Those with NPC classes use the "Basic Level" to determine their gear, while those with PC classes use the "Heroic Level" to determine their gear.
That is what I meant. I couldn't remember the distinctions.
Weapons and Armor do not change size, magic clothing or jewlery resize if necessary.
When an article of magic clothing or jewelry is discovered, most of the time size shouldn’t be an issue. Many magic garments are made to be easily adjustable, or they adjust themselves magically to the wearer. Size should not keep characters of various kinds from using magic items. There may be rare exceptions, especially with race-specific items.
Armor and Weapon Sizes: Armor and weapons that are
found at random have a 30% chance of being Small (01–30),
a 60% chance of being Medium (31–90), and a 10% chance of
being any other size (91–100).
- Gauss
Ah OK then... Though I would allow the PCs to take the armor and have its material made into armor for them. Say the armor generates a number of smaller suits of armor similar to how a Dragon can produce so much Dragonhide.
Note: this would be costly and would require the aid of a skilled craftsman. Say a Dwarf specially trained in doing said action. All resulting armor bears a lesser bonus than the dragons armor. Say that +3 Full Plate. Becomes a +2 full plate suit and a +2 Chainmail suit.
Yes, if it's immediately useful to them.
What DQ done said.
Greg
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It also depends on how intelligent the enemies are. NPCs will of course use whatever they have if the situation calls for it. But personally, when I DM, I enjoy using abberations, plant monsters, and magical beasts as enemies. These things wouldn't even know what a wand was, but they might devour a passerby who had one...
Personally, I prefer NPC loot to be in the form of static bonus gear (rings of resistance or enchanted weapons/armor) so that the NPC isn't consuming the players' treasure, but isn't carrying a magic item and not using it either.
Luckily, the rest of my group seem to be under the impression that consumables are a waste of gold, and really only care about treasure in the form of permanent items. Since there's a good chance they'd just sell the wand anyway, I doubt they'd care much if it had a few charges gone when they got it.
I play my NPCs as if they actually have a desire to survive, win and profit. So if they have magic stuff, they use it. That includes potions, wands, scrolls, etc.
I also don't adhere to WBL guidelines except for every now and then when I true up the party to be sure they aren't getting too much, or too little, treasure.
In my current campaign the seventh level party killed several bandits and a troll, and drove off the rest. Their "reward" was a couple dozen silver pieces and some personal effects. The dead bandit's loot is still at the bandit hideout. If they find it and defeat the bandits, then they can find the loot.
In that fight the bandit leader used a potion of greater invisibility and a magic bow.
Do my monsters use their treasure against the party? Well, only the smart ones, who have hands, or equivalent item slots.
The 4 make ambush wasn't within the rules was it...
I have the NPCs/monsters use their gear whenever it is appropriate. There was a situation where an NPC was about to drink a potion of cure some wounds (it's been a while so I don't remember which one) and the monk used a disarm maneuver to knock the potion away. Players who are paying attention can have some fun with it.
I have the NPCs/monsters use their gear whenever it is appropriate. There was a situation where an NPC was about to drink a potion of cure some wounds (it's been a while so I don't remember which one) and the monk used a disarm maneuver to knock the potion away. Players who are paying attention can have some fun with it.
Exactly. It is something that should be used to enhance the game not ruin it. Like everything else it takes finesse to get to work well.