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But things like exclusive content that will NEVER EVAR BE REPEATED make me feel like if I don't attend every single con, I'm screwed.
I'm afraid that is the nature of most big living worlds like Organized Play, Nationwide Larps, or even MMOs.
Given that you are continually trying to attract players to a 'meeting' of some point (convention, game, etc) you have to offer something they can't find normally.
Honestly I've hears Paizo does it well in that will supply boons to regional or local cons if the organizers just ask.
Special boons like this are really part of the trade-offs of having a large continuing world like this.
Yea it can feel sometimes unfair, but in the larger picture it's needed.
RPG Superstar 2009 Top 32, 2010 Top 8
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What do you think about the one-off Grand Convocations every year at PaizoCon? Or the delves that are only used for PAX?
Personally I'd love to purchase them after the fact to read and enjoy. Not so much for the boons, but to see the awesomeness.
Heck, might encourage people to go. "They did what in 2010? Wow. Wonder what they're doing last year."
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Ok wow this not what expected from my 1st post but it intressting to hear how differnt a response this to arcanis and at the sametime how the same it is... At the one for Saturday ( the reason I didn't go to the pathfinder part 1) arcanis had a bi and after we had handed our tickets in and we were started the reminded us that since this was a gencon exclusive and they haven't decided weather it was going to be released for home play that our reward was going to be minimal... They later told us what ever cert we get would fallow in a month or so...
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What do you think about the one-off Grand Convocations every year at PaizoCon? Or the delves that are only used for PAX?
I think they're not quite the same thing as the second half of a two-parter, the first half of which will be published.
But frankly I'd rather those were all published too.
Given that you are continually trying to attract players to a 'meeting' of some point (convention, game, etc) you have to offer something they can't find normally.
And there's lots of those, but we should draw a line somewhere, and I'm asking for that line to be moved from where it is currently drawn.
Venture-Captain, Ireland—Belfast
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I was lucky this year. I got to Gencon for the first time since 2007, I got a great collection of players for the Special and against all odds we managed to get the Goblin boon. It was a lot of fun on so many levels and thanks to both our GMs. It was a highlight of 30 years of gaming and that was before we knew we had won anything.
I grew up with AD&D and the finale had that old school vibe where being an adventurer is an inherently dangerous thing... i.e. old PCs and bold PCs but only rarely old & bold ones...
It was meant to be like that. We knew what we were volunteering for.
Even the maps in the "module" were printed in blue and white (if you are old enough you will know why that brought a smile to my face!)
The risk/reward equation was well and truly outside the PFS norm.
I doubt I will be able to afford the trans atlantic fare for several years to come, if at all and I really do appreciate that it would be nice for special rewards to be available more widely.
BUT while I really would like to see some extra bits and pieces (i.e. boons) for people who organise lots of local PFS event and GM stars maybe equating to a little something more than "bragging rights"
It is still 100% valid for Mike at al to turn on the old razzle dazzle just for the biggest Gaming convention in the world. Also 100% valid that the Special retain an air of mystery because as in real life there are somethings you really had to be there for.
W
Semper in memoria "Team Broke Town Boys & Girl" habebamus
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What I think Patrick Harris is really trying to say, is that If they run this thing as an official Scenario, that's supposedly this awesome, world-altering event, why can't we have access to whatever box-text they used, so that we can run it with our friends in a non-PFS game, for the experience.
I completely agree with him in that regard. I love the idea of con-specific boons, etc, like the 30ish goblins that are social enough for the society, but I'd love to have access to peruse what has been altering this living organized play world that I just found and fell in love with over a single weekend.
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I was lucky this year. I got to Gencon for the first time since 2007, I got a great collection of players for the Special and against all odds we managed to get the Goblin boon.
Congratulations!
I wonder how many PFS goblins there are in the British Isles, or even in the whole of Europe? Just this one?
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What I think Patrick Harris is really trying to say, is that If they run this thing as an official Scenario, that's supposedly this awesome, world-altering event, why can't we have access to whatever box-text they used, so that we can run it with our friends in a non-PFS game, for the experience.
I completely agree with him in that regard. I love the idea of con-specific boons, etc, like the 30ish goblins that are social enough for the society, but I'd love to have access to peruse what has been altering this living organized play world that I just found and fell in love with over a single weekend.
Unfortunately, since it was an un-developed Word file, it did not have any background text or really box text at all. Just a description of the room and the monster stat blocks.
I, for one, am perfectly fine with Paizo releasing one-offs at PaizoCon, PAX and GenCon that aren't published. Basically because they are just word files and aren't fully developed in the first place. Why put out the mule when the race horse is ready to go?
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Venture-Captain, Ireland—Belfast
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I was lucky this year. I got to Gencon for the first time since 2007, I got a great collection of players for the Special and against all odds we managed to get the Goblin boon.Congratulations!
I wonder how many PFS goblins there are in the British Isles, or even in the whole of Europe? Just this one?
Thanks! I should point out that so far there is just the boon, the goblin is still just a twinkle in it's daddy's eye. If it is the sole example of Goblinus Britrannicus I want to make it is a bit special! I am thinking alchemist.......
W
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Hmm... That brings up an interesting question. Is any of the Advanced Race Guide Goblin section legal for these unique goblin Pathfinders? Could Heretic make a Goblin Fire Bomber and use bomb launchers?
From previous posts, I believe Mike is going to check into other books becoming legal, but I could be very wrong on that.
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Venture-Captain, Ireland—Belfast
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Hmm... That brings up an interesting question. Is any of the Advanced Race Guide Goblin section legal for these unique goblin Pathfinders? Could Heretic make a Goblin Fire Bomber and use bomb launchers?
The boons specifies that other than access to the race all character creation rules are as outlined in the Guide to Pathfinder Society play.
I'd like to imagine that was not intended to deny racial traits, feats, archetypes, horse choppers etc.
W
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Venture-Captain, Missouri—Cape Girardeau
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I for one enjoyed the concept of a second night that's exclusive. I understand more than most what a pain in the ass it was to pull off. I hope we do it again.
I liked the idea too, in concept.
The competitive nature of this years Special did seem to fly in the face of the core concepts of the Society... "Explore, Cooperate and Report."
Ideas to improve it? I have a few... if you are interested I'll send them to you in a PM. One thing I think needs to be considered in an event of this type though... what happens if half your "team" Tiers out because of their participation. I played at a Tier 10-11 and was told we just missed making it in. One of the successful teams of the same tier lost half their members due to leveling up. Should they have been disqualified? Heck no, they earned it! But it does make some envious that they missed it... by that much.
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I'm asking to not be left feeling like I missed out forever because I can't make GenCon. Incentives are good. Exclusive perks are good. These are things that will make me want to come next year. Maybe some year I can even do so. But things like exclusive content that will NEVER EVAR BE REPEATED make me feel like if I don't attend every single con, I'm screwed. That's not cool.Every network campaign that ever went anywhere had special one off events. And if you're going to have them, GenCon is going to be one of those places to do it, because it is after all the ultimate gaming convention. Special events aren't so special if they're repeated elsewhere.
You're only "screwed" if you can't accept that that there are times in which you can't get everything you might want.
And also keep in mind that even going to this event did not guarantee you a boon. In fact boon is the wrong word for it, it was a prize for finishing in the top score ranks.
One of the prizes was to be charged only half PA for a glorious death.
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Hmm... That brings up an interesting question. Is any of the Advanced Race Guide Goblin section legal for these unique goblin Pathfinders? Could Heretic make a Goblin Fire Bomber and use bomb launchers?
Mike Brock has said they are reviewing and sometime in September will make a note what material is legal for the goblin boon characters.
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I confess I am VERY curious about the Goblin PCs .. we got one guy down here in Jax who got the boon.. he won't play my suggestion (admittedly 'Gobzilla' the Alchemist/Master Chymist is a bit out there)
I DO want to hear stories from those 30 or so folks about their Gobs antics, orgins and stuff..
Cause secretly I"m DEAD Jealous!
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I confess I am VERY curious about the Goblin PCs .. we got one guy down here in Jax who got the boon.. he won't play my suggestion (admittedly 'Gobzilla' the Alchemist/Master Chymist is a bit out there)
I DO want to hear stories from those 30 or so folks about their Gobs antics, orgins and stuff..
Cause secretly I"m DEAD Jealous!
Slugtooth (my character that died in the Special, his last name was Fang so kept the teethy reference), Goblin "Ninja"... not finalized, waiting to see what's all approved... sounds like the rest of my table is leaning Alchemist, Ranger, and three haven't decided just yet. We're a little spread out across the country so its possible anyone could run into us at a con. We're waiting on the approved materials list to come out to create the backstory in case there's something a PC wants as part of their concept. Planning on doing an all goblin table next year at GC (and totally going "off the mod" as much as possible!)
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Every network campaign that ever went anywhere had special one off events. And if you're going to have them, GenCon is going to be one of those places to do it, because it is after all the ultimate gaming convention. Special events aren't so special if they're repeated elsewhere.
You're only "screwed" if you can't accept that that there are times in which you can't get everything you might want.
And also keep in mind that even going to this event did not guarantee you a boon. In fact boon is the wrong word for it, it was a prize for finishing in the top score ranks.
Again, there is a difference between a one-off event and the second part of a two-parter which is not being published even though the first part is.
Also again, I'm not talking about the boon, I'm talking about availbility of content.
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I am debating what to do with my Goblin as well. I asked my friends, new and old what they planned on doing and so far a Fighter and Gunslinger. The rest unknown. I am leaning toward Ranger myself, but a Goblin Oracle with Fire seems to call to Mince Firetooth. I see a goblin who talks in tongues and loves fire too good to pass up. Sorceror seems like fun too. I was thinking a Goblin abandoned by the warmth of clan and tribe and turned to the cold. A Rhime blooded. Gonna wait and see for the rules on resources :D
"Broketown Boys & Girl"
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I am debating what to do with my Goblin as well. I asked my friends, new and old what they planned on doing and so far a Fighter and Gunslinger. The rest unknown. I am leaning toward Ranger myself, but a Goblin Oracle with Fire seems to call to Mince Firetooth. I see a goblin who talks in tongues and loves fire too good to pass up. Sorceror seems like fun too. I was thinking a Goblin abandoned by the warmth of clan and tribe and turned to the cold. A Rhime blooded. Gonna wait and see for the rules on resources :D
"Broketown Boys & Girl"
An goblin 'anti' Pyromaniac? I like it. Could also wait to see what comes of the winter witch archetype. I sudden have this image of a goblin running around with liquid ice flasks and the new ice blade widget from UE.
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You don't. You had to complete the Part 2 of the "Race for the Runecarved Key" Special at GenCon this year. This was a run-once event that will not be repeated, and the Goblin boon is unlikely to be awarded again. If it is, it will probably be for another one-shot event at GenCon (Maybe Paizocon.)
I am disheartened to hear this. Verisimilitude-wise, it makes 0 sense for PFS characters to be goblins. Goblins hate words and think they steal the thoughts from your brain. Therefore logically they can't receive faction missions unless someone reads it to them. That's not very practical.
So either those 37 people will have characters quickly falling behind the prestige award curve. They'll not get to play the goblins. Or they'll have to sacrifice part of the flavour that makes goblins unique and fun in order to simply play these characters.
I am disappointed that Paizo chose to go down that road.
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Venture-Captain, Michigan—Mt. Pleasant
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I am disheartened to hear this. Verisimilitude-wise, it makes 0 sense for PFS characters to be goblins. Goblins hate words and think they steal the thoughts from your brain. Therefore logically they can't receive faction missions unless someone reads it to them. That's not very practical.
So either those 37 people will have characters quickly falling behind the prestige award curve. They'll not get to play the goblins. Or they'll have to sacrifice part of the flavour that makes goblins unique and fun in order to simply play these characters.
I am disappointed that Paizo chose to go down that road.
I think you're stereotyping the goblins too much. Yeah, your average goblin hates writing, but this is 30 some goblins in all of Golarion. How often do you really see stereotypical PC's? maybe 1-5% of the time? So it is really that surprising that these goblin PCs won't be stereotypical? Not to me it isn't. I mean, We Be Goblins starts off about a goblin that wrote and was driven off. Who's to say that he didn't go to the Pathfinders to join them so he could learn more of their written words? If everyone was able to play Goblins, then I could see that as a problem, but these are maybe 37 people at max out of 50,000+ players with who knows how many characters each. It is not the end of the world.
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Venture-Captain, Massachusetts—Central & West
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I mean, We Be Goblins starts off about a goblin that wrote and was driven off. Who's to say that he didn't go to the Pathfinders to join them so he could learn more of their written words?
The module itself? You do find out what happens to Scribbleface. Other than that, I agree wholeheartedly with your point.
You don't. You had to complete the Part 2 of the "Race for the Runecarved Key" Special at GenCon this year. This was a run-once event that will not be repeated, and the Goblin boon is unlikely to be awarded again. If it is, it will probably be for another one-shot event at GenCon (Maybe Paizocon.)I am disheartened to hear this. Verisimilitude-wise, it makes 0 sense for PFS characters to be goblins. Goblins hate words and think they steal the thoughts from your brain. Therefore logically they can't receive faction missions unless someone reads it to them. That's not very practical.
So either those 37 people will have characters quickly falling behind the prestige award curve. They'll not get to play the goblins. Or they'll have to sacrifice part of the flavour that makes goblins unique and fun in order to simply play these characters.
I am disappointed that Paizo chose to go down that road.
Here is the beauty of the boons: considering all the reasons you have listed, this forces players to get really creative to explain why a goblin would be a Pathfinder.
Our group (hi, I have a goblin boon) are considering the idea that a small group of baby goblins were found in their pens, helpless, during a clean up of a Goblin camp. Perhaps a Pathfinder was there and was of such an alignment as to find it extremely distasteful to slaughter babies (even if they were goblin). Why not try an experiment? Why not put the nature vs. nurture debate to the test?
And so, you have a reason for at least 6 players. You have baby goblins, raised in a non-goblin, controlled environment as a social experiment by Pathfinders.
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Yeah, your average goblin hates writing, but this is 30 some goblins in all of Golarion.
Unfairly stereotyping would be saying all goblins are evil.
Fearing the written word is part of the racial roleplay and is an intrinsic part of being a goblin. But let's say you overlook that aspect. For playability reasons you're also going to need to remove the hatred for dogs and horses (otherwise animal companions are going to get slaughtered which is against the rules). Furthermore DMs are now going to have to work extra hard to explain why this goblin is permitted in the area that the adventure module takes place in. Sometimes this just won't make sense and so we'll have DMs saying "you're not allowed to play that character in this game" or "the town guard imprisons you until the Pathfinder Society pulls enough strings at the end of the mod to allow you to go free, escorting you to the border to ensure no further confusion occurs."
AFAIK DMs aren't allowed to categorically say "you fail the mod because you're playing a freak" (trust me, I would have loved to do so on a number of occassions). So instead what will actually happen is DMs will gloss over the flavour of goblins in order to adhere to the rules of PFS and players will gloss over the flavour in order to be able to partake in the Pathfinder Society.
The end result is we either receive flavourless characters that have lost (due to the rules) all of the wonderful flavour that makes up goblins. Or we see players playing special snowflakes.
In my view this is no different to having an elf that rides a kank in Dark Sun or a Half-Giant that's cunning and manipulative. If you want to be cunning and manipulative, you don't play a half-giant, you play a race that can be manipulative and cunning.
How often do you really see stereotypical PC's?
There's a difference between playing "a stereotypical member of a race" and "adhering to the racial roleplay." I always adhere to the racial roleplay.
My Taldanes? Manipulative and cunning. Their motives are different (one of them has the motive of trying to stay alive. Another's motive was to serve his noble family to the upmost of his ability).
My Andoran? A Chelish halfling that was freed from slavery who became a squire of a knight in the Pathfinder Society and now carries on the virtues that knight lived by as a fully fledged agent of the Pathfinder Society.
That isn't a stereotypical halfling. But it does adhere to the flavour of Cheliax, Andoran and halflings.
If everyone was able to play Goblins, then I could see that as a problem, but these are maybe 37 people at max out of 50,000+ players with who knows how many characters each. It is not the end of the world.
And thankfully I live in Australia so I won't have to jump through these hoops to permit goblins at my table. And I want to make it clear, I have no issue with those who gained these boons to use these boons. If I had survived insurmountable odds I would also want to benefit from the reward I had received.
My issue is entirely with WotC for handing out this reward in the first place. I am disappointed they did this and I think it cheapens the world setting they have worked so hard to establish.
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My issue is entirely with WotC for handing out this reward in the first place. I am disappointed they did this and I think it cheapens the world setting they have worked so hard to establish.
I always knew that WotC had an evil plot to take down Pathfinder! Insidious!
Seriously though I do find it funny that it seems you subconsciously blame WotC for this.
Anyway...
Your points are valid but the Goblin boons are special snowflakes, the players who won them deserve them to be special snowflakes. That's the reward for winning. Hopefully the players will embrace the roleplaying opportunities to play characters that are at conflict with their own nature.
And goblins aren't much more odd than people walking around with pet lions or dinosaurs in a city.
I don't think Paizo did a bad thing here, and it'll be interesting to see how it pans out in the long run.
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My issue is entirely with WotC for handing out this reward in the first place. I am disappointed they did this and I think it cheapens the world setting they have worked so hard to establish.I always knew that WotC had an evil plot to take down Pathfinder! Insidious!
Seriously though I do find it funny that it seems you subconsciously blame WotC for this.
They weren't content with warping their own game to the point of being almost unrecognizable, so now they're coming after ours!
What a twist!
Anywho, some characters are likely to balk at seeing goblins in their team, just as some characters will at seeing fetchlings, tieflings, or half-orcs. Yes, the GM's will have to let the characters play the scenario as per normal, but I'm going to bet that those 37 people are among the best of the best and will likely manage to come up with compelling and fun characters to game with.
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WotC did not hand them out. i believe you ment Paizo.
I can see and understand your dislike of the goblins being playable and I had similiar dislikes when drow became playable for D&D. I liked my drow evil and Greyhawked . Everyone was wanting to play the redeemed Drow before DRizzt came onto the scene. AND after words. BAM Drizzt Clones. The kind Tiefling paladin.etc.
Plenty of good cause for people changing their ways and ideals with the world around them. If everything was SO sterotypical than why play?? Why cant a Goblin be better than the norm??
Why cant a half-giant be cunning and manipulative??? How do you get warriors and leaders then??
Have a little faith in the people who got them. I understand you got issues with the race being used and not the players themselves.
You would not be jumping through hoops to get them to be permited at your table. Im sure the players and the DM is good enough to Role-Play and let the things fall as they will. A poorly played character is doomed any how. Be it human, half-orc or Goblin.
Who says the hatred and fear of Horses and reading needs to be removed in order to make them playable?? I believe it will enhance and make them stand out. I think this will help bring about a more role-played intensive character where racial taboos for them and how it is handled will be great. A far cry from cheapening the world they have done a good job of establishing.
Im sure a goblin can sneak into a town or Disguise themsleves they do it all the time to live in the gutters of the civilizied world. Thats what alot of Pathfinders have to do any way LOL. Not a real change there at all.
They are being limited and Seeing all the negative and none of the positive is disheartening to say the least. you would not be interested to see what we came up with??
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IF I had one, which I don't. I think I'd go with the story,"There was this gnome with a scroll of reincarnate ...." and the story would end with .."Okay maybe burning the WHOLE town down was a mistake but I was feeling a bit put upon. ..."
With the details changing every time because I'd be playing lying goblin rogue.
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RPG Superstar 2010 Top 16
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One goblin PC was originally hired on as kitchen help in the Grand Lodge, as a special directive from on of the Ten. That went ... rather badly.
"Look!" said the head chefs to Ambrus Valsin, "You've got to get that damned goblin out of the kitchens before it 'cooks' the fruit and yogurt." Behind them, there was a high-pitched cackle and a cheer, as a puff of brown smoke billowed into the dining hall.
At a loss, Valsin looked around and saw Aram Zey collecting a team of agents for a mission in the Hao Jin tapestry. And he smiled a terrible, horrible, Grinchified smile, as only a Venture Captain could smile. "I have ... just the thing."
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Scribbleface from "We Be Goblins" could write; so could Vorka the cannibal (who also kept dogs, *and a horse*!). There, canon supports it! ('Course, it didn't end too well for either of them...)
Well it could be argued the 'Heroes' of We Be Goblins didn't end well if you follow the story with the Adventures Path that followed after it.
Venture-Lieutenant, South Dakota—Rapid City
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Scribbleface from "We Be Goblins" could write; so could Vorka the cannibal (who also kept dogs, *and a horse*!). There, canon supports it! ('Course, it didn't end too well for either of them...)
I dunno, Vorka ate well last time I ran WBG (First TPK, of course the cleric hoarded all of the healing potions and decided to channel energy in melee with all of the other PC's...)
As far as Gobins in the Society, as stated it could be the .01% that are actually stable enough to follow directions and not set EVERYTHING on fire. As much as I would have liked a shot at the special (didn't get to play Round 2 as one of the lucky Round 1 GM's), it's not a terrible loss. There's still the possibility it may be opened up later down the road anyway (higher than a Paladin of Asmodeus at least!).
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Seriously though I do find it funny that it seems you subconsciously blame WotC for this.
Sorry, I first started playing organised play with LFR. Much of my growing issues with Pathfinder Society were issues I had with LFR and so it was just a slip of the tongue. I've had these discussions all before.
And goblins aren't much more odd than people walking around with pet lions or dinosaurs in a city.
And here lies my problem with animal companions 9 out of 10 times.
If everything was SO sterotypical than why play??
You don't need to be a special snowflake in order to be interesting. There are a wide swathe of intriguing and fun characters you can make while still remaining true to the racial roleplay and campaign setting.
Why cant a Goblin be better than the norm??
I'm not saying you can't have non-evil goblins. But if you remove their superstitious fear of writing, their hatred for dogs and horses are you really playing a goblin? What part of the character says "this is a goblin"?
Why cant a half-giant be cunning and manipulative??? How do you get warriors and leaders then??
I could go on specifically about this example and explain how they're a magically created race from the dawn of time that had a magickal fusion between true giants and humans and how they're entirely dependent on human society.
But that's not what you're asking. You're asking (and correct me if I'm wrong): Why should we adhere to the racial roleplay?
May answer: Because that's what makes that race interesting and makes it unique.
If you play a Dark Sun elf who doesn't like stealing, trusts everyone and also rides around on mounts everywhere, are you actually playing a Dark Sun elf? Or are you playing a human that doesn't get the usual racial traits humans get?
I am of the opinion that by not adhering to the racial roleplay, you're not playing that race. Now there's a lot of variation you can explore while adhering to that racial roleplay.
A poorly played character is doomed any how. Be it human, half-orc or Goblin.
True. And I have seen cases where people aren't roleplaying the core races according to the documentation available for the campaign setting. It can be hard to work out how to play an elf, dwarf, half-orc, halfling, gnome or half-elf. Heck, it can even be difficult to work out how to a play an ordinary human sometimes. By Paizo allowing this flood of races to be playable, we're increasing the burden on the player and the GM to ensure they adhere to the campaign setting.
I've seen characters that are basically humans with different racial traits. When I've seen half-orcs my characters treat them like the dirty half-breeds they are. And everyone is shocked at me when I do this. That tells me (1) the player themself isn't familiar with the place their own character is meant to occupy in the game setting (2) no-one else has treated them as the game setting says they should be treated. When someone saw me doing this with more than one character they said "oh, made another racist character there John?" As if my character is the one that's out of the ordinary. Now I can continue adhering to the campaign setting and encourage those players to read up on their race and roleplay their characters appropriately. However with Paizo allowing more and more non-core races in PFS, it becomes harder and harder. I personally don't even know what the appropriate roleplay is for a vishkanya (what the heck is that even suppose to be? Oh wait. It's in yet another splat book. That explains why I have no idea what this race is) or an udine. So they're making my job harder as now I need to buy more books for races I have no plan on playing just so I can roleplay with players that do play them.
And this is a great model for selling books. WotC did it with LFR and their "everything's core" model. It certainly sold a lot of books, but it killed any interest I had in the Forgotten Realms setting for 3 years. Only now am I starting to explore the setting once more (of course, avoiding anything resembles 4th ed Forgotten Realms). And while Paizo thankfully haven't taken the "everything's core" route, they are allowing more and more material to become legal which effectively ends up with there not being much difference.
Anywho, some characters are likely to balk at seeing goblins in their team, just as some characters will at seeing fetchlings, tieflings, or half-orcs.
THis is exactly the problem. We are seeing the return of team monster. There'll be parties composed entirely of Tieflings, Dhampyrs, Udines, Nagaji, Tengu and Fetchlings. The setting will play less and less of a role in the game as DMs have to ignore the flavour more and more just to let people play their exotic races. Meanwhile people are forced to ignore how their character should react and eventually it all devolves into no-one actually playing characters and simply building stat blocks that have the two correct ability boosts and we get 3 combats and a skill challenge and that's all people remember from the mods because we've seen the flavour sucked out simply to allow tables to play the game.
Now are we there yet? God no. But that is the direction we seem to be headed. The more splat books Paizo produces and the more races we see become legal (through boons or just open access) the closer we get to this situation. It happened with LFR and can easily happen with PFS if Paizo continues in the direction they seem to be headed.
As such I want to voice my concerns in the hope that those who feel the same also do and if enough of us feel this way, perhaps Paizo will reconsider.
Who says the hatred and fear of Horses and reading needs to be removed in order to make them playable??
I can't kill animal companions.
With the details changing every time because I'd be playing lying goblin rogue.
Sense motive. The second a city watch captain succeeds on his sense motive you're placed in jail for being a goblin. Which of course isn't legal.
But again the purpose of my posts isn't to personally critique every single goblin character people have. People have them, I hope they enjoy them, but I'm concerned about the trend they are a part of. I came to these forums to see what people thought of tieflings aasimars becoming open access (the two races that are now optimal for every class ever except alchemist. For alchemists we have humans with +2 STR, +2 INT thanks to Advanced Race Guide). I found this thread on goblins purely by accident.
Scribbleface from "We Be Goblins" could write; so could Vorka the cannibal (who also kept dogs, *and a horse*!). There, canon supports it! ('Course, it didn't end too well for either of them...)
I don't understand the appeal to playing a goblin if you're not going to adhere to all of the wonderful flavour Paizo has produced about goblins.
There's still the possibility it may be opened up later down the road anyway (higher than a Paladin of Asmodeus at least!).
I'm fully aware of this and am quite concerned by this possibility.
I will quote what an organiser of PFS once said on this very issue:
I can appreciate that some folks really like playing monstrous humanoids in their PRPG games, but the Society doesn't allow them for two reasons:
1) As you noted, the world of Golarion is humano-centric and was always intended to be so. Though there are books written for our world that support non humano-centric thinking, the population of the Inner Sea is by far more human then all the other non human races combined. Because the Society is designed to show off our world and capture the flavor of our world, we stick to the core races only.
I really want to draw people's attention to one part: "to show off our world and capture the flavor of our world, we stick to the core races only"
I feel this new approach is not showcasing the world nor capturing it's flavour.
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THis is exactly the problem. We are seeing the return of team monster. There'll be parties composed entirely of Tieflings, Dhampyrs, Udines, Nagaji, Tengu and Fetchlings. The setting will play less and less of a role in the game as DMs have to ignore the flavour more and more just to let people play their exotic races. Meanwhile people are forced to ignore how their character should react and eventually it all devolves into no-one actually playing characters and simply building stat blocks that have the two correct ability boosts and we get 3 combats and a skill challenge and that's all people remember from the mods because we've seen the flavour sucked out simply to allow tables to play the game.
So what you're saying, is that the players who got these special races through boons (before the recent opening of the 3 for everyone) are ruining everyone's fun and forcing people to ignore the setting of the game? So me having played through, and survived, the 12+ tier at Paizocon to get a Fetchling has ruined everyone's fun because I got something cool and fun for going to the con with my high level character?
So now when I sit down at a table with this character and his twin (played by a friend) nobody is allowed to treat us with suspicion and disdain, or even any small amount of distrust? By us sitting at the table, we're forcing all the other players to act as though nothing is out of the ordinary, and play like nothing's different? I'm sorry, but I guess the players in your area must be very unimaginative and unwilling to do a bit of entertaining roleplay if you are convinced that nobody will think twice about finding themselves adventuring with the very creatures that attacked the society at the Grand Convocation.
I've sat at tables where the other characters were utterly disgusted at having to deal with my Tiefling (which I got through a race boon early this year) simply because of his race, but they still pushed on and put up with it, though we got some truly fantastic RP out of the whole thing because of it.
I've seen very few tables with any boon races that haven't been treated to at least a little in-character racism or at least raised eyebrows unless they went through pains to conceal their odd heritage. Also, I've seen a grand total of maybe 5 tables this year with more than one boon race at it that wasn't a group that got them together at an event. Besides, if "Team Monster" crops up at a table where everyone's having fun with it and you're not being forced to play with them, does it really ruin your fun when those folks are enjoying themselves?
I will quote what an organiser of PFS once said on this very issue:
I can appreciate that some folks really like playing monstrous humanoids in their PRPG games, but the Society doesn't allow them for two reasons:
1) As you noted, the world of Golarion is humano-centric and was always intended to be so. Though there are books written for our world that support non humano-centric thinking, the population of the Inner Sea is by far more human then all the other non human races combined. Because the Society is designed to show off our world and capture the flavor of our world, we stick to the core races only.
I really want to draw people's attention to one part: "to show off our world and capture the flavor of our world, we stick to the core races only"
I feel this new approach is not showcasing the world nor capturing it's flavour.
Seeing as how this setting is supposed to be humano-centric, would you rather only Humans be available with things like Elves, Dwarves, Halflings and the like being the boon races?
A major reason people enjoy playing weird races is because they get to play the oddball character that has to face the racial perceptions of them and the way society treats them. I enjoy playing the sinister Tiefling that nobody wants to trust but they begrudgingly put up with him because he's a pathfinder and they're not supposed to try to bludgeon him to death despite the fact that they may be compelled to do so.
Even when he ended up at a table with two other boon Tieflings at Paizocon there was an entertaining dynamic as the different racial heritages were at each other's throats. I didn't hear anyone at that table complaining about the presence of the three fiendspawn, if anything people were generally laughing and having a great time.
I'm truly sorry that other people getting to play these wacky races is ruining your fun, but nobody's forcing you to make your characters ignore the races, and nobody's forcing you to sit at their table. If you sit at a table with team monster and decide you don't like it, you don't have to sit at that table and play.
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I see PFS as a decent excuse to play an open-minded character. Really, speaking multiple languages and traveling widely are both great ways to expand your perspective. I just don't see any problems with PC characters accepting each other. Random townfolk might be another matter, but most odd characters would work on having some sort of disguise.
Goblins walking around in the open should expect some distrust, but if one or two goblins live successfully in a normal society, it will provide an example to the commoners. These are all issues that players and GMs are working out on a regular basis.