All assassins aren't ninjas.
This just gave me a formal logic conniption.
I'm not real big on psychopathic, stick-in-the-mud, or disruptive PCs. Fortunately the players I game with nowadays are fairly good at making the group work and moving the game along.
I don't particularly care for nameless "+x" weapons floating about, so I usually try to reskin them into something else or give them a name/history whenever I can.
Other than that, it varies by setting and theme of the particular campaign at hand. Of our current game setting (a Neo-Victorian, steampunkish type one), for example, I'm not allowing clerics or wizards unless they take one of the archetypes (cloistered cleric, spellslinger, etc) that depowers their versatility a little bit and brings them more in line with the flavor I have imagined for the setting.
|
| 2 people marked this as a favorite. |
I like Wayne Reynolds' art a lot, but the boob-plates and powerfists I see in the Pathfinder art leave me nostalgic for the olden days when he would draw in a historically accurate style.
I know. I hate it when they don't remain historically accurate in my game of dragons and spellcasters.
| 2 people marked this as a favorite. |
I didn't like the inclusion of dinosaurs at first either, but the "Isle of Dread" made me realize that they definitely had their place in fantasy RPGs. That location, and other "forgotten places" is the perfect place for dinosaurs.
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
Half-dragon half-plants.
I hate those guys.
|
I'm okay with dinosaurs. I just hate when players try to shove them in inappropriate locations without even trying to justify them.
Player: My halfling druid feeds his t-rex dinner.
DM: Um, okay where did your druid meet this dinosaur?
Player: I'm a druid.
DM: Okay, but you're a halfling. And you're in the frozen north. And you're four miles underground.
Player: It's my class feature!
I'd really like to see a property where the designated chosen one appears, fails horribly, and its up to the guys who would normally be the supporting cast to save the world.
Isn't Discworld sort of like that? It's been a while since I read any of those books, but I seem to remember something similar.
|
|
I played in a similar campaign once.
The premise was that we were followers of this great hero/chosen one and we basically followed him around on his adventures and tried to not die.
At the very end he died and it was left to us to finish his quest.
I had a blast with it but a few of the other players chafed at the idea of not being the 'main characters'.
I'd really like to see a property where the designated chosen one appears, fails horribly, and its up to the guys who would normally be the supporting cast to save the world.Isn't Discworld sort of like that? It's been a while since I read any of those books, but I seem to remember something similar.
(Dammit, I deleted that post in order to revise it better. Here's what he's referring to):
The chosen one. There is always a chosen one. I hate the chosen one. He is the GMPC to end all GMPCs. It has become one of the laziest, hackneyed cliches in fantasy to have some random schmuck plucked from nowhere (usually the protagonist, because identifying with audience wish fulfillment is the easiest way to generate empathy) to upstage every other character no matter how much more competent or interesting they may be by virtue of the fact that the writer claims he's inherently awesome.
Can't master that singularly awesome spell/martial art/artifact despite having been training to do so all your life? Well here comes the Chosen One! He just started learning your discipline last Tuesday and naturally he is now better at it than you and all your peers combined! But don't worry--you can still learn how to be better by following at his heels as he gains in even more power and prestige!
Been trying to catch the eye of your beloved for years with no luck? Fear not! The Chosen One has arrived to melt their icy heart and leave you to either sacrifice yourself for their benefit or, at best, hook up with a minor character (who was probably pining for the Chosen One in the first place)!
Facing off against the final antagonist? You better hope he has a lieutenant or something to keep you busy, or you're pretty much destined to die a scrub's death when the bad guy easily kills you to establish how dangerous he is. Keep heart, though--your memory will undoubtedly serve to empower the chosen one when finally curb stomps the villain into the ground during the climactic battle!
I'd really like to see a property where the chosen one appears, fails horribly, and its up to the guys who would normally be the supporting cast to save the world.
A few recurring themes and tropes that always annoy me to no end:
- Tall, ancient, & magic-inventing elves. This was kind of interesting back when I was seven or eight years old; nowadays, it screams repetition, pointless orc-vs-everyone conflicts, and Tolkien fanservice.
- Deities and classes mechanically tied to them. Religion allows for drama and interesting story options, but deities bring nothing to the table. This combined with the idea of priests casting spells is utterly repulsive to me. I have no problem whatsoever with druids, oracles, or even paladins casting spells, but clerics and inquisitors won't find a place at my table.
- Halflings, hobbits, kender, etc. I've never understood the appeal of halflings; why not use a gnome instead? A special race just to play a small human...I don't get it.
What I dislike in my fantasy?
Elves being taller than human.
Dragons that have human-like personality and human-like goals. The worst offender are dragons living in organized societies (probably the only part of Eberron that I completely ignore/redesign).
Asian-themed fantasy stuff.
Dinosaurs.
Evil or sociopathic PCs.
Barbarians that are basically pelt trading cavemen. And summoners.
|
| 2 people marked this as a favorite. |
I always have a dislike for save the world scenarios. Really just "epic fantasy" play in general is just way too over done. I like my fantasy light and fluffy, or kind of gritty.
I'm the opposite. I like my games to be epic in scope. I like end of the world stuff with the big damn heroes being the ones to stop it. The higher the stakes, the more fun it is IMO.
What I don't like is hopeless grimdark. There's plenty to get miserable about in real life, keep it out of my games please.
Not fond of creatures which take the name of something in mythology, but have actually nothing to do flavor or mechanics wise with that monster. I would rather someone make a completely new monster then.
Fine with Dinosaurs, just would rather see them referred to under different names. My druid doesn't refer to wolves as Canis lupus, so why would he use the terms Triceratops or Elasmosaurus.
Regional Pantheons. An all powerful set of gods starts seeming a lot less powerful if there are 10 or so sets scattered throughout a single world. I get that their might be cultural differences that might emphasize certain gods in one area over another, but I would expect that if they were real entities they would have at least a little bit of influence everywhere.
Fine with fantasy that draws on other cultures. In fact, if you are going to model one chunk of the world off of Europe, you might as well also take inspiration and add in a Asia, North America, etc analogues. Also have no problems with guns or science-fiction elements, as long as they are consistent with the world.
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
I like Wayne Reynolds' art a lot, but the boob-plates and powerfists I see in the Pathfinder art leave me nostalgic for the olden days when he would draw in a historically accurate style.I know. I hate it when they don't remain historically accurate in my game of dragons and spellcasters.
In my defense, I'm saying that I think the historical style (subjectively) looks cooler, not that the fantasy world somehow needs to abide by that for accuracy's sake.
I am normally the first to remind people that Golarion is not "medieval". In fact, I'm not advocating that specifically medieval styles be used at all, but rather that weapons and armor look the way they do for practical reasons, and I find that aesthetically pleasing. Whereas, the style often found in Pathfinder is: "this looks cool because it is whimsical."
I prefer the old chain hauberks and somewhat dorky-looking but effective helmets that have fallen completely out of style in game illustration.
Basically, I'm fine with the "anything goes, kitchen sink" aspects of Pathfinder fantasy art, I just think the coolness of pragmatic arms and armor is underrepresented.
I know I'm in the minority, and that most readers probably love the stylized trappings that enhance the "heroic" qualities of the characters, big fists and gauntlets and comically heavy swords... that's a valid artistic expression, especially in a game of dragons and spellcasters as you say. But when I walk into a museum and see all that cool gear, and I remember when Mr. Reynolds used to draw that stuff, I think "why don't I see that anymore?"
And, why are Dwarves so often played as Scottish? (Mine tend to be more Nordic in flavor.)
Because there are no playable stats for the Nac Mac Feegle.
The one thing I can't stand in my fantasy? Elves. Period. In any flavour (tall or short, magic inventing or dessert running, wood, high, dark, or grey.) Let me amend that, elves as PCs, I am quite honestly burnt out on them. Mainly because if they are supposed to be so long lived, then why does it seem that every one is hot for human women (or men) (this incidentally strikes me as a serious perversion for an elf, at best it would be the equivalent of pedophilia [your average adult human would be like a 6 yr-old in an age comparison with an elf], at worst bestiality [equating a human's IQ and experience as compared to an elf, it'd be like a chimp or a gibbon as a bed partner], given that light, is it any wonder that half-elves are looked down upon?) and completely lacking in patience (have yet to see an elf played in a way other than this, unfortunately). Elves make even better long term villains than liches and dragons, with schemes taking generations to carry out and the patience to wait that long, so why is it we don't see more straight up villain elves?
Guns? I'm fine with black powder weapons (especially in the hands of Dwarves [blasting powder derivative], Orcs [Siege Cannons], and Goblins [particularly the Golarion variety, it just strikes me as a natural outgrowth of their love of fire - KaBOOM!! followed by a 5 min long fit of giggles? It just screams goblin])
Dinosaurs? Not that different than a dragon (in the way an ape is not that different from a human)
Comedy races? Needed, one simply can't be grim all the time without winding up with a blade at your own wrists if you're not careful.
Basically, I'm fine with the "anything goes, kitchen sink" aspects of Pathfinder fantasy art, I just think the coolness of pragmatic arms and armor is underrepresented.
I know I'm in the minority, and that most readers probably love the stylized trappings that enhance the "heroic" qualities of the characters, big fists and gauntlets and comically heavy swords... that's a valid artistic expression, especially in a game of dragons and spellcasters as you say. But when I walk into a museum and see all that cool gear, and I remember when Mr. Reynolds used to draw that stuff, I think "why don't I see that anymore?"
I am on this with you, E. Lincoln. We aren't minority when there are two of us, right?
Unlike (probably) the most of posters, I can go to museum to watch and compare to real ones.
Ok I found something...unlike the esteemed Mr Lincoln, I hate helmets on anyone not wearing full plate. I know it's a little thing, but I never order minis that have them and if I am playing a video game I always go without unless they can be toggled off. I just think they look goofy, especially if they have extra flaps or wings or the like. I don't begrudge anyone else there silly metal hat with wool lined ear flaps and bird wings screwed to the side or their half a breastplate with bull horns glued on...but it's not my thing. Give me a hood or a mask or a cowl...but just say no to the epic fantasy version of the doofy trucker cap.
Hahah! Part of what bothers me with the "no helmet" thing is that, as things stand, they're actually worthless. The silly part of that is, though, that the helmet was one of the most valuable parts of armor in general, and kept people alive more often than not by protecting their most vulnerable part.
Even when other armors went out of fashion because they were slowly become useless against emergent technology, helmets stayed as very important pieces because they were so vital to protection.
... though some fantasy designs can get kind of goofy. (Wool lined ear-flaps are pretty hot though... which is why they're worn in the bitter cold north!)
Helmets can look cool too.
I don't mind boob plate, as long as it's not a metal corset that simply hikes the girls up. Well-made boob plate fits the chest perfectly, so it would be rather pricy. Also, what if your boobs grow? You'd need a new breast plate....well I guess adventurers have that kinda gold just laying about so I guess every girl could have her fat armor (like I have my fat pants).
|
|
I don't mind boob plate, as long as it's not a metal corset that simply hikes the girls up. Well-made boob plate fits the chest perfectly, so it would be rather pricy. Also, what if your boobs grow? You'd need a new breast plate....well I guess adventurers have that kinda gold just laying about so I guess every girl could have her fat armor (like I have my fat pants).
"What do you mean you got a second Robe of the Achmagi?"
| 2 people marked this as a favorite. |
Ok I don't like guns in my fantasy, but the thing I dislike the most is...
MAGIC SHOPS
I never read a fantasy novel (which is what has inspired my gaming) where the hero drops in between missions to upgrade his +2 longsword to a +3 longsword...
WE HATES IT!
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
Yeah, I hate the magic shops too. My biggest complaint with D&D for years has been the proliferation of magic items. I wish they were a lot more rare and difficult to acquire. I'm currently in a campaign where I have two +1 scimitars (made of different materials) and just found a 3rd one. It just doesn't feel right to have so many of them lying around.
Ok I don't like guns in my fantasy, but the thing I dislike the most is...
MAGIC SHOPS
I never read a fantasy novel (which is what has inspired my gaming) where the hero drops in between missions to upgrade his +2 longsword to a +3 longsword...
WE HATES IT!
In magic shops, you can buy spell components, lab supplies, and can choose from a very limited set of wondrous items. However, Magic Marts are essentially djinn-run superstores that always have what the player wants and will buy anything they drag back from a dungeon at list price.
I've always liked magic shops, but I do hate Magic Marts.
Necromancer covered my stance to magic shops quite well.
I like magic shops where their place is (in Eberron for example, where lesser magic is ubiquitous) as long as they are not players' wish fulfilment place and instead actual and reasonable (according to particular setting and location assumptions) choice of wares.
I don't mind boob plate, as long as it's not a metal corset that simply hikes the girls up. Well-made boob plate fits the chest perfectly, so it would be rather pricy. Also, what if your boobs grow? You'd need a new breast plate....well I guess adventurers have that kinda gold just laying about so I guess every girl could have her fat armor (like I have my fat pants).
Well, realistically, it's more dangerous to wear boob-plate than a normal breastplate, specifically because of the 'edge' made that lines up with the lady's sternum. even a glancing blow to that spot can be excruciatingly painful.
Have a friend line their knuckles up with your sternum and push while you lean into it. Won't cripple you, but you'll see what I mean.
@Necromancer/Drejk
Yes, well clarified. I definitely meant I hate inappropriately stocked stores where PCs take their magic item shopping lists...
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
I'm okay with dinosaurs. I just hate when players try to shove them in inappropriate locations without even trying to justify them.
Player: My halfling druid feeds his t-rex dinner.
DM: Um, okay where did your druid meet this dinosaur?
Player: I'm a druid.
DM: Okay, but you're a halfling. And you're in the frozen north. And you're four miles underground.
Player: It's my class feature!
I thawed him from a frozen glacier. Duh.
I don't mind boob plate, as long as it's not a metal corset that simply hikes the girls up. Well-made boob plate fits the chest perfectly, so it would be rather pricy. Also, what if your boobs grow? You'd need a new breast plate....well I guess adventurers have that kinda gold just laying about so I guess every girl could have her fat armor (like I have my fat pants).Well, realistically, it's more dangerous to wear boob-plate than a normal breastplate, specifically because of the 'edge' made that lines up with the lady's sternum. even a glancing blow to that spot can be excruciatingly painful.
Have a friend line their knuckles up with your sternum and push while you lean into it. Won't cripple you, but you'll see what I mean.
Something similar is an EMS move to check if the patient is responsive to painful stimuli. You press and rub your knuckles up and down someone's sternum. Hurts like hell, but doesn't cause any major damage. It's a trick (one of many) that helps resolve if somoene is faking being unconscious. Trained medical profesionals can tell if you're faking unconsciousness, seisures, etc. I could tell you stories.
GUNS! I'm not a fan of pulp fantasy, so guns never make it into my games. I have played in games where guns where present, only to have it kill the joy of playing in a sword and sorcery game.
MAGIC MARTS and MAGIC ECONOMIES! This is actually far worse for me (not necessarily anyone else) than the immersion killing presences of firearms. Sadly it is almost integral (again my own perspective not indicitive of anyone else) to d20 with the Wealth by Level table and item creation feats.
SPELLJAMMING/INTERPLANETARY stuff. Nuff's said about that. If I want to visit strange worlds, seek out new civilizations, and boldly go where no Dwarf has gone before, I'll play Star Trek, Ecplise Phase, or any number of a host of games and settings that are science/technology based.
What I dislike in my fantasy?
Elves being taller than human.
So Tolkien's treatment of Elves must really irk you.
|
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
@Necromancer/Drejk
Yes, well clarified. I definitely meant I hate inappropriately stocked stores where PCs take their magic item shopping lists...
My DM, mdt, has what I consider 'magic mart done right'.
Cheap magic can be bought on the ground floor, but to even see the higher priced items requires a 2000gp retainer. Then the buyer is allowed into higher levels, which are heavily warded and guarded. If no purchase is made, the retainer is refunded minus a small service fee. It's very much like a high end jewelry store.
|
|
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
I don't like the idea of fantasy armor. That rule people seem to follow where the less armor it covers on a woman, the higher the AC bonus. I can't stand that pic of the Barbarian in the CRB.
While I agree in principal, I disagree about your specific example. Bikini Mail is horrible, stupid, and sexist. But Barbarians are supposed to be lightly armored bruisers who take the hits and keep going in. Having your armor eat the blow is for Paladins, Fighters, and Cavaliers (you know, wimps) --- but not the barbarian.
I think too often, since Bikini Mail is such a common and overused trope, people look for it in every instance of a female character and chafe if she has an ounce of skin showing. Sometimes it makes sense. Conan, the quintessential barbarian, wore a loincloth for chrissakes! Comparatively Amiri is dressed like a nun. It fits her, much like Seelah's cover-all full-plate fits her character.
I still can't come up with a decent justification for Seoni, though. That's plain ol' cheesecake.
|
|
It's hard for me to say what I don't LIKE in my games. There are things I don't mind when I'm playing, but won't include when I run my games. I enjoy playing in games about save-the-world epic things, but I feel like it's done so often that if I do another it's just going to lose its 'Oomph!'. I prefer to run games in an intimate setting with goals and stories personal to the PC's.
Also not a huge fan of guns. But that has been well-established.
Entriesshadow, I'm talking about how her arms and legs are covered in thick padding but her torso is exposed. It has nothing to do with her being a barbarian.