Note that I'm not trying to bend any rules with this, I just think it would be a funny idea, and am curious how it would work:
At third level, your familiar can deliver touch spells. If I cast a touch spell, designate my familiar as the toucher, and then throw it at whatever I want touched, does that count as a ranged touch attack? I don't think armor or shields would apply, since the familiar only has to touch them, it doesn't need to actually hurt them.
Yes, I realize this would most likely hurt my familiar, and could ultimately lead to an alignment shift.
On a similar note, if I cast a spell that allows multiple touches (such as Protection from Chaos, Communal), could I touch through my familiar, toss it to the person next in initiative, have my familiar touch them, then on their turn, they toss it to the next guy in line? If it works, what kind of action is it to catch something?
I would call it: Operation Squirrel Ball
...isn't this what Spectral Hand is for?
(Though I'll admit, that spell does lack the comedy value of "toss me the squirrel".)
...isn't this what Spectral Hand is for?
I never said it was a *good* idea, or that there weren't better ways to get the effect. I was just asking if I chose to throw my familiar at someone, how it would work out rules wise.
Throwing a familiar should work no different than a thrown object. Keep in mind, that to deliver a spell the familiar has to take a standard action to deliver the touch. In combat it would work like this:
Round 1
1. Cast Shocking grasp with standard action
Round 2
2. Use standard action to throw familiar at opponent's square. Roll against AC 5 with ranged increment 10. Determine a miss Just like a splash weapon.
3. Familiar takes a standard action to deliver the touch spell.
Note: The familiar would not provoke attacks of opportunity from the target when being thrown since it is a projectile at that point.
I would say that this only works if your familiar weighs about 1 pound since that is the weight of the grenade weapons like alchemist's fire.
A familiar is an improvised weapon. Though I would allow a Cacodaemon to be thrown without penalty since it is a ball :D
----------------------------
About squirrel ball. It's a standard action to deliver a touch spell, so no dice. I'd say you have to ready an action to catch a familiar. Though the snatch arrows feat would work. Remember that hitting a creature would be a ranged touch attack against their AC. Though a creature can choose to make itself flat-footed against your attack by not trying to dodge it.
In the realm of house rules, I'd make it a reflex save with DC around 10+2 per range increment to catch the familiar.
----------------------------
Another question, can you enchant your familiar as a weapon? Maybe with the Throwing and Returning properties :D
Keep in mind, that to deliver a spell the familiar has to take a standard action to deliver the touch.
Can a familiar hold a charge? p. 185 of the CRB: If you don't discharge the spell in the round when you cast the spell, you can hold the charge indefinately... If you touch anyone while holding the charge, even unintentionally, the spell discharges" - being thrown at someone would count as touching them unintentionally...
Yes, I don't see why that wouldn't work.
Round 1
1.) Cast the spell with a standard action, choosing your familiar to deliver it.
Round 2
2.) Throw your familiar as a standard action at an ally. Ranged touch attack vs his touch AC. If it hits, the familiar has unintentionally touched the target, discharging the spell.
----Perhaps give the ally a Reflex Save to catch the familiar if they have a free hand.
3.)Ally picks up the familiar as a Move action if they did not catch it (discharging the spell on them again).
4.)Ally throws familiar at the next target as a Standard Action (again ranged touch attack vs Touch AC).
5.) Repeat steps 3 and 4 until the spell runs out of charges (or the familiar dies from being thrown around too much).
I don't think I'd let the familiar deliver the touch spell by being thrown at the target. Only one limb of the familiar is "charged" and it is tumbling through the air. It's just as likely to hit the target with its back or face.
Also, letting the thrower's attack roll deliver the spell has the side effect that it is a good idea to have your Fighter buddy throw your cat around...
Contributor, RPG Superstar 2010 Top 16
|
I like the idea, particularly with buffs or other friendly spells. It's a lot of weird gray area. One thing to note is the familiar entering a creatures square provokes which could get ugly.
Talk to your GM, you aren't going to get a lot of consistency in answers here.
I have seen a flung hedgehog to the face strike the final blow to defeat the BBEG.
I kid you not.
|
Keep in mind, that to deliver a spell the familiar has to take a standard action to deliver the touch.Can a familiar hold a charge? p. 185 of the CRB: If you don't discharge the spell in the round when you cast the spell, you can hold the charge indefinately... If you touch anyone while holding the charge, even unintentionally, the spell discharges" - being thrown at someone would count as touching them unintentionally...
does not picking up your familiar to throw is count as "touch anyone while holding the charge, even unintentionally, the spell discharges". it is not specific on who you are touching, just someone not already charged with the spell.
does not picking up your familiar to throw is count as "touch anyone while holding the charge, even unintentionally, the spell discharges". it is not specific on who you are touching, just someone not already charged with the spell.Keep in mind, that to deliver a spell the familiar has to take a standard action to deliver the touch.Can a familiar hold a charge? p. 185 of the CRB: If you don't discharge the spell in the round when you cast the spell, you can hold the charge indefinately... If you touch anyone while holding the charge, even unintentionally, the spell discharges" - being thrown at someone would count as touching them unintentionally...
True. Though if the spell had multiple touches (like it would need to be passed around) only one would discharge on you for picking up the familiar.
And you may have some guess room if you pick up the familiar, THEN cast the spell
I don't think I'd let the familiar deliver the touch spell by being thrown at the target. Only one limb of the familiar is "charged" and it is tumbling through the air. It's just as likely to hit the target with its back or face.
I don't recall it saying anywhere that only one arm or hand is charged (hence it can be delivered though any appendage when making a full round/natural attack.
A draconic bloodline Sorcerer with their claws and bite out and holding a charge can make a full round attack (2 claws and a bite) and whichever hits first delivers the spell. It's not stuck in one limb.
|
The scary part is that this reminds me of something that actually happened in my group once. It was a druid's companion badger (small size - low level), not a familiar, but same idea.
We were fighting something hanging from the rafters, 10 feet above us. Our monk and ranger were climbing the walls to get up to the rafters to try and attack it. My barbarian was firing a bow at it. The ninja with a reach weapon was trying to whack it like a pinata. But the thing had such a high AC that we pretty much needed natural 20s to hit it.
But the druid had nothing to do against it, being low level with no useful offensive spells, and no ranged weapon. So he declares, "I throw my badger at it."
The GM warns him that his badger might not let him touch it ever again, but he goes for it anyway. He sticks the roll to touch the creature with the badger, but then the badger needs to roll to deliver its attack... and it gets a natural 20 on the bite.
The stupid part is that we all forgot the badger has a climb speed and could have gotten there on its own, faster than the humans who were climbing the walls to try and get up there.
A better question is what happens if you cut an Entropic Starfish improved familiar into many pieces. How many familiars would you get?
A better question is what happens if you cut an Entropic Starfish improved familiar into many pieces. How many familiars would you get?
One. Who is sitting in a colony of entropic starfish.
Alchemists could inject their tumor with a bomb, then detach it from their body and throw it like a sentient suicide grenade.
Beat that!
Alchemists could inject their tumor with a bomb, then detach it from their body and throw it like a sentient suicide grenade.
Beat that!
Just a regular bomb?
Maybe feed the tumor an extract like shock shield so it can discharge it when thrown.
Back in 3.5 I had a Sorceror who could cast Cure spells (I don't remember how I managed that). Usually did that through my cat familiar. Buttons the medi-cat. Shame clerics don't get familiars.
Back in 3.5 I had a Sorceror who could cast Cure spells (I don't remember how I managed that). Usually did that through my cat familiar. Buttons the medi-cat. Shame clerics don't get familiars.
Witches do though! My players have cure spell delivered by the witch's cat all the time (she only delivers touch spells personally to enemies, and to one particular other PC who her PC is in a relationship with).