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Alright, thinking about Master summoner for PFS. And am not sure, if I am missing something.
Other racial option would be hlf-elf, to get a little better eidolon (not so brilliant afterwards but still) and have skill focus already. Or human, for the additional feat and skill points. On the other hand small is nice too for a summoner....
Here we go with the basics:
Race: gnome
STR - 6
DEX - 14
CON - 16
INT - 12
WIS - 10
CHA - 18
Feats:
1st – Scion of War
2nd - Augmented Summoning
3rd - Superior Summoning
5th - Lookout
7th – Improved Initiative
9th – Skill focus: Knowledge the planes
11th - Eldritch Heritage Arcane (for Greensting scorpion)
in the end +17 to initiative (assuming CHA 24) - or is this overdoing it?
Traits:
Reactionary
Tomb raider (perception)
Racial:
Gift of tongues - to speak with all summons, esp. elementals
I looked into a possibility to get a +1d6 to all summons for all attacks via primal (air) improved eldritdh heritage, but for PFS which caps at lvl12 - a long time to wait.
Next thing, to go first, so trait and feats accomodate that. The eidolon will be based on perception as well, meaning, if we both can act during surprise round, we get a full action.
Thus, get the summon out, dismiss eidolon, contibue summoning...
for the eidolon:
base: serpentine
1st - 3rd
Skilled: Stealth (1), Skilled: Perception (1) Mount (1)
4th/5th
Skilled: Stealth (1), Skilled: Perception (1) Mount (1) ?
6th/7th
Skilled: Perception (1) Mount (1) Arms (2) Skilled: UMD (1)
8th/9th
Skilled: Stealth (1), Skilled: Perception (1) Mount (1) Arms (2) Skilled: UMD (1) Skilled: Disable device (1)
10th/11th
Flight (4), Increased Flight Speed (1), Skilled: Perception (1) Mount (1) Skilled: Fly (1)
Did I miss anything?
It actually seems a bit overkill on the charisma. It really, seriously only ever needs to hit you're highest spell level. Almost all of your casting should be buffs and summons. I'd put a few more points into str just so you can carry your gear, dump scion of war since you're going to have a high dex anyway. You could even increase dex, wis, or con which all help your build more than cha.
Just my thoughts...
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Alright, thinking about Master summoner for PFS. And am not sure, if I am missing something.
Other racial option would be hlf-elf, to get a little better eidolon (not so brilliant afterwards but still) and have skill focus already. Or human, for the additional feat and skill points. On the other hand small is nice too for a summoner....Here we go with the basics:
Race: gnome
STR - 6
DEX - 14
CON - 16
INT - 12
WIS - 10
CHA - 18Feats:
1st – Scion of War
2nd - Augmented Summoning
3rd - Superior Summoning
5th - Lookout
7th – Improved Initiative
9th – Skill focus: Knowledge the planes
11th - Eldritch Heritage Arcane (for Greensting scorpion)in the end +17 to initiative (assuming CHA 24) - or is this overdoing it?
Traits:
Reactionary
Tomb raider (perception)Racial:
Gift of tongues - to speak with all summons, esp. elementalsI looked into a possibility to get a +1d6 to all summons for all attacks via primal (air) improved eldritdh heritage, but for PFS which caps at lvl12 - a long time to wait.
Next thing, to go first, so trait and feats accomodate that. The eidolon will be based on perception as well, meaning, if we both can act during surprise round, we get a full action.
Thus, get the summon out, dismiss eidolon, contibue summoning...for the eidolon:
base: serpentine
1st - 3rd
Skilled: Stealth (1), Skilled: Perception (1) Mount (1)
4th/5th
Skilled: Stealth (1), Skilled: Perception (1) Mount (1) ?
6th/7th
Skilled: Perception (1) Mount (1) Arms (2) Skilled: UMD (1)
8th/9th
Skilled: Stealth (1), Skilled: Perception (1) Mount (1) Arms (2) Skilled: UMD (1) Skilled: Disable device (1)
10th/11th
Flight (4), Increased Flight Speed (1), Skilled: Perception (1) Mount (1) Skilled: Fly (1)Did I miss anything?
-I'm not familiar with Scion of War, what sourcebook is that from?
-You need Spell Focus (Conjuration) before you can take Augment or Superior Summoning-You didn't list feats that your eidolon will be taking, and it will definitely need Lookout since it's a teamwork feat.
The master summoner gets augment summoning for free at 2nd level, and superior summoning only needs augment and 3rd level. MS gets around that feat tax and gets one of his best feat choices for free. It is a really, really powerful class right out of the box.
Noble Scion
You are a member of a proud noble family, whether or not you remain in good standing with your family.
Prerequisites: Cha 13, must be taken at 1st level.
Benefit: You gain a +2 bonus on all Knowledge (nobility) checks, and that chosen Knowledge skill is always considered a class skill for you.
When you select this feat, choose one of the benefits listed below that matches the flavor of your noble family. Work with your GM to ensure that your choice is appropriate.
Scion of the Arts: You gain a +1 bonus on all Perform checks, and Perform is always a class skill for you. If you have the bardic performance ability, you can use that ability for an additional 3 rounds per day.
Scion of Lore: You gain a +1 bonus on all Knowledge skills in which you have at least 1 rank.
Scion of Magic: You gain one of the following languages as a bonus language: Abyssal, Aklo, Celestial, Draconic, Infernal, or Sylvan. Once per day, as a free action, you can gain a +2 bonus on any Spellcraft check you make. You must spend the free action to gain this bonus before you make the check.
Scion of Peace: Whenever you take 10 on a Wisdom-based skill, treat the result as if you had rolled a 13 instead of a 10.
Scion of War: You use your Charisma modifier to adjust Initiative checks instead of your Dexterity modifier.
Ninja'd. I still think it's Cha overkill. You could up your dex for equal benefit and have a free feat. Plus that ups a save, which is huge for MS's. They usually aren't in melee, so gaining SR and high saves, and a wand of wind wall are the protection they want.
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The master summoner gets augment summoning for free at 2nd level, and superior summoning only needs augment and 3rd level. MS gets around that feat tax and gets one of his best feat choices for free. It is a really, really powerful class right out of the box.
Noble Scion
You are a member of a proud noble family, whether or not you remain in good standing with your family.
Prerequisites: Cha 13, must be taken at 1st level.
Benefit: You gain a +2 bonus on all Knowledge (nobility) checks, and that chosen Knowledge skill is always considered a class skill for you.
When you select this feat, choose one of the benefits listed below that matches the flavor of your noble family. Work with your GM to ensure that your choice is appropriate.
Scion of the Arts: You gain a +1 bonus on all Perform checks, and Perform is always a class skill for you. If you have the bardic performance ability, you can use that ability for an additional 3 rounds per day.
Scion of Lore: You gain a +1 bonus on all Knowledge skills in which you have at least 1 rank.
Scion of Magic: You gain one of the following languages as a bonus language: Abyssal, Aklo, Celestial, Draconic, Infernal, or Sylvan. Once per day, as a free action, you can gain a +2 bonus on any Spellcraft check you make. You must spend the free action to gain this bonus before you make the check.
Scion of Peace: Whenever you take 10 on a Wisdom-based skill, treat the result as if you had rolled a 13 instead of a 10.
Scion of War: You use your Charisma modifier to adjust Initiative checks instead of your Dexterity modifier.
Got it, should have noticed that it was listed as second level.
That Noble Scion feat is pretty excellent. I should have given that to my sorcerer instead of Improved Initiative, then I could have bought the circlet of Persuasion to boost it even more. Pretty sick.
It is sick, for sorcs and enchanting bards, and oracles. Summoners just don't need the oomph. A summoner that caps at level 12 only needs a 14 cha to cast his highest spells. I would suggest starting at 16, for 6 uses of summon monster (which is good) and using two feats on extra summon instead of SoW and skill focus. If you have extra cash you can up cha with items, but really you aren't going to be lacking in the ability to summon monsters. You will be hurting from failed saves, and lack of proper camping gear...
So with the plan to dismiss your eidolon, you are basically casting a spell to go first in combat... Just shifted back and round. For maximum marginalization, you are better off without doing that. Also a dip into druid or oracle for SNA (or anything that grants sna) to get over DR issue.
Make sure you get a Dueling weapon or something like that. It's from the APG and gives you a +4 enhancement bonus to your Initiative.
I respectfully disagree that you don't need a high Cha. Here's why:
- It adds summon SLAs. Since this is what you do, every one of those is precious.
- High Cha = more spells. My level 4 summoner with 22 Cha (19 base + 1 at level 4 + 2 headband) has 5 level 1 spells and 3 level 2s. Were he at 18, he'd have two less - notable difference for a class with as few spells to spare as the summoner. Being able to drop 3 hastes/day at level 4 is pretty awesome.
- Save DCs. Yes, your list has a lot of buffs, etc on it. But if you're focusing on casting (the presumed route for a Master Summoner), you're still going to want to use spells like Glitterdust, Grease, and Black Tentacles. I.e. pump those DCs.
Now, for other summoner builds (archery focused, for instance), it makes sense to lower Cha in favor of other abilities. But if you're focusing on casting, that Cha needs to be as high as possible, IMHO. Personally, I think you could get away with a 14 Con and 8 Str - at level 5, you can always give your eidolon flight and fly away from the danger.
Hm, agree here. So, just run around without the eidolon - and have a feat free for lookout, and maybe also drop skill focus and eldritch heritage? With the circlet, it might get an initiative overkill......
CHA 24 (+7), reactionary (+2) improved initiative (+4) circlet (+3) iounstone (+1) - that's a +17...... - without the familiar.
The dip, on one hand good, I know the feats for summoning to get over DR, is there any other way to get SNA without loosing one level?
So with the plan to dismiss your eidolon, you are basically casting a spell to go first in combat... Just shifted back and round. For maximum marginalization, you are better off without doing that. Also a dip into druid or oracle for SNA (or anything that grants sna) to get over DR issue.
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If you plan to focus on casting and summoning, it might be worth it for your eidolon to get the flagbearer feat. This way your summonings will be buffed up a little for the easier encounters.
But if his Eidolon is out, he can only cast one summon monster at a time. If the eidolon is dismissed, there's no limit. That's how a master summoner is supposed to be played... every round you cast another summon monster until you simply overwhelm the enemy.
Where exactly would you fit in the Xlight Summons and the feat to get SNA?
If you plan to focus on casting and summoning, it might be worth it for your eidolon to get the flagbearer feat. This way your summonings will be buffed up a little for the easier encounters.
takes a 15 cha prereq. would have to raise the eidelons cha by 4
As awesome as Master Summoner is, I'd recommend against it in PFS (unless you play with a static group who is okay with it.) Even if you're totally on the ball, you'll end up slowing things down and taking up a lot of time for your turn, which may make people hate you.
If you are going to do it I have two pieces of advice:
- At level 1 you have a full-powered eidolon, so evolve him for combat and you can send him in to wreck faces and then summon a doggie into flanking to trip. You can change him to whatever at level 2 or 3.
- Don't worry too much about getting SNA-> X-light Summons to bypass DR. You're going to be able to get around that with proper creature selection. Demons and devils can be overcome with good outsiders, anything with DR /magic can be overcome with weapon-wielding outsiders starting with Hound Archon and when all else fails you can just summon lots and lots of Lantern Archons, which are nice because you can kind of abstract them on the playmat. You might need to do this for a high-level fey (uncommon) or shapeshifter (rare).
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Ok a lot a people are saying you shouldn't unleash a Master Summoner on Pathfinder Society. I actually have one. I went in with the idea having a Chess Master who only moves his pieces around the battlefield. And it works quite well. But I try not to to flood the board and have all the stats on hand. And occasionally you still get an unhappy GM for being what you are.
So here is my advice for doing this without cheesing off everyone (or with minimal grief):
1) Riding Dogs are your best friends early on. Use them to provide flank buddies for the melee types.
2) Archon Lanturns are next best friend. Their auras are untyped so they stack by RAW when multiple Lanturns are on the field. Their rays bypass DR and they can use AID on the party.
3) Before unleashing your minions on your foes, buff your party. They will always appreciative when you make them better at what they do.
4) Know your monsters inside and out. This will help reduce your turn from consuming far too much time (though it will still be a bit longer than everyone else's turn).
5) Summon only enough to help with the fight. Not to totally dominate it. You can easily trivialize most encounter with sheer numbers. Don't. Everyone will hate you. The exception is if 3/4 of the party are down and it's looking like a total party wipe. Then you can save the day. They will love you for this.
That's all I have for you off the top of my head. Your build looks good, not terribly optimized which is a good thing. I personally like Expanded Arcana feat since summoners have so few known spells. Anyway good luck.
I suppose you can play Master Summoner in a way that doesn't antagonize other players or the DM, but it is something you have to actively try to do. Just playing MS "naturally" can easily induce unfun in a way that other classes don't.
Of course, you'll also have the option of casting Haste and then hiding under a bush for the rest of the fight, invisible. Martial types do love their Haste.
My absolute favorite character is my half-elven Master Summoner and I've played him in a variety of incarnations since the class came out. One thing I can definitely suggest is to consider keeping your eidolon arond with UMD and a wand of something offensive like Magic Missile or Scorching Ray. Another is to know your elementals - they are far and away my favorite selection for summoning and there's one for every occaision. I even take the four elemental languages to be able to command them to do things other than engage in combat when necessary.
Also, don't forget that starting at 10th you gain the Aspect ability - that alone will allow you to fly if that's what you choose to use it for, even when you don't have your eddy out.
Ok a lot a people are saying you shouldn't unleash a Master Summoner on Pathfinder Society. I actually have one. I went in with the idea having a Chess Master who only moves his pieces around the battlefield. And it works quite well. But I try not to to flood the board and have all the stats on hand. And occasionally you still get an unhappy GM for being what you are.
So here is my advice for doing this without cheesing off everyone (or with minimal grief):
1) Riding Dogs are your best friends early on. Use them to provide flank buddies for the melee types.
2) Archon Lanturns are next best friend. Their auras are untyped so they stack by RAW when multiple Lanturns are on the field. Their rays bypass DR and they can use AID on the party.
3) Before unleashing your minions on your foes, buff your party. They will always appreciative when you make them better at what they do.
4) Know your monsters inside and out. This will help reduce your turn from consuming far too much time (though it will still be a bit longer than everyone else's turn).
5) Summon only enough to help with the fight. Not to totally dominate it. You can easily trivialize most encounter with sheer numbers. Don't. Everyone will hate you. The exception is if 3/4 of the party are down and it's looking like a total party wipe. Then you can save the day. They will love you for this.
That's all I have for you off the top of my head. Your build looks good, not terribly optimized which is a good thing. I personally like Expanded Arcana feat since summoners have so few known spells. Anyway good luck.
there are no riding dogs anymore. newest edition took them out. It is just regular dogs now. So I prefer eagles
Um... isn't this all a moot point?
I thought Master Summoner was banned from PFS play?
Or was that changed?
EDIT: Sorry, it was the Broodmaster that was actually banned. My bad.
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one note for PFS, you can only have one active critter. This means at the beginning you would have had to choose which you would use for that scenario, eidelon or familiar. So dropping familiar is good idea.
Can someone point me to this rule? I can't seem to find it in the guide to PFS organized play or any other resource. I have heard it many times now and am just trying to find the actual rule.
Edit: found it, for those who might be interested. It's in the PFS FAQ page:
FAQ: How many animals can I have?
there are no riding dogs anymore. newest edition took them out. It is just regular dogs now. So I prefer eagles
It seems they neglected to actually errata that for Summon Monster, although they did it for Summon Nature's Ally. 5th printing still includes Riding Dogs. PFS is by RAW and not RAI unless the campaign staff makes a clarification, so apparently you can still summon them.
The only mention I can find is a post from James Jacobs, but that's three years and three printings ago.
So with the plan to dismiss your eidolon, you are basically casting a spell to go first in combat... Just shifted back and round. For maximum marginalization, you are better off without doing that. Also a dip into druid or oracle for SNA (or anything that grants sna) to get over DR issue.
I don't understand why you would want to dip if your a summoner. Please explain why.
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there are no riding dogs anymore. newest edition took them out. It is just regular dogs now. So I prefer eaglesIt seems they neglected to actually errata that for Summon Monster, although they did it for Summon Nature's Ally. 5th printing still includes Riding Dogs. PFS is by RAW and not RAI unless the campaign staff makes a clarification, so apparently you can still summon them.
The only mention I can find is a post from James Jacobs, but that's three years and three printings ago.
You're incorrect sir, if you actually download the most recent version of the Pathfinder Core Rulebook PDF, this is the list of available summons for Summon Monster I:
Table 10–1: Summon Monster
1st Level Subtype
Dire rat* —
Dog* —
Dolphin* —
Eagle* —
Fire beetle* —
Frog, poison* —
Pony (horse)* —
Viper (snake)* —
For some reason they didn't actually put it in the errata PDF, but it's there.
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So with the plan to dismiss your eidolon, you are basically casting a spell to go first in combat... Just shifted back and round. For maximum marginalization, you are better off without doing that. Also a dip into druid or oracle for SNA (or anything that grants sna) to get over DR issue.I don't understand why you would want to dip if your a summoner. Please explain why.
I think the reason there is that you can then take Moonlight, Starlight, and Sunlight Summons feats, which allow your summoned creatures to bypass DR. It's a reasonable plan.