All,
I am curious on what you think would be the best way to make a character who has full BAB and can fight on the front lines (although I dont expect her to tank) but who is a lightly-armored longsword type character. Basically, I want a swashbuckler in a way. But I dont want the character to be a stealth type or a backstab / critical hit kind of character.
I was thinking about maybe an Urban Ranger. However, I do want the character to have lots of Diplomacy, Bluff, and Sense Motive, and I want her to be great at Gather Information.
And so I guess Bard and Rogue are most suited, and maybe I should play the kinds of characters intended for this role. Only I want the character to have Full BAB and actually NOT be a finesse character. I want her to be dexterous, to the point of having good armor class, but I actually want her to be a heavy hitter (Strength Based).
What would be the best way to do this? 1 level of Bard (I dont want any Sneak attack) and the rest Urban Ranger?
Thanks!
Urban Barbarian combined with the appropriate traits to get Bluff and Sense Motive as class skills might be an option. There are enough rage powers between all the books, you should be able to find plenty to fit the style you seek, and the modified rage helps you get the boost you need without having to go berserk.
This is pretty specific, I am concerned that you might be spreading yourself too thin with all of the requirements you have, but let's have a look at what's possible.
For the Full BAB, your options are: Fighter, Barbarian, Ranger, Monk(Kinda), Gunslinger, Cavalier, Paladin.
Of these, Fighter, Monk, Gunslinger, and Barbarian have variants designed for light armour. I suggest one of these four classes, you can multiclass between them, or throw in a level of a spellcasting class for some effective buffs as well.
With traits, you can have whatever class skills you need, so you should be alright choosing any of the above as classes.
Race: Priority to humans and half-elves, maybe dwarves or half-orcs, depending on the setting.
Ability Scores in order of Priority: Str, Dex,Con, Cha, Wis, Int (dump)
Feats(off the top of my head): Leadership, Skill focus, mobility feat chain, power attack, vital strike, toughness, step-up feat chain, weapon focus, dazzling display,
What level are you looking at?
I dont want to be good at everything.
The character has to be Human for background/RPG reasons.
The character shouldnt be a barbarian.
I basically just want a fighter who uses a longsword or rapier. Offhand can be none or a dagger. But she is not a finesse character, even with a rapier (in fact I prefer the long sword even though it sucks because of the mediocre crit range etc). I am not looking for weapon finesse stuff. The character should be lightly armored and have full BAB and be able to survive on the front lines but without the need to be primary tank.
The character does need to be a spider-in-the-web/planner/information gatherer, and so I would like access to Diplomacy (thats where Gather Information is, right) and Knowledge (Local) and I am tempted to take a level in Bard (Archaeologist) strictly to get access to most of the social and knowledge skills.
But basically, longsword fighter in light armor but with the right social skills to be an information gatherer. But she is NOT a backstabber, a sneaker, or even good at traps.
Just a Streetwise/Knowledge/Planner light armored fighter. That is why I originally thought that maybe Archaeologist Bard 1/Urban Ranger X would be good.
She should be a thinker.
The Freebooter archetype for Ranger shows leadership skills.
http://www.d20pfsrd.com/classes/core-classes/ranger/archetypes/paizo---rang er-archetypes/freebooter
The Lore Warden archetype would cover most of your bases there with the traits World Traveler or Ease of Faith to give you diplomacy (nearly typed diplomancy :)) or the Cosmopolitan for both diplomacy and sense motive.
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Right, lore warden.
Actually, I'm a bit disturbed by how often lore warden seems to be the answer...
Cool thanks folks. I will take a look at these suggestions!
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Here's...
Cosmopolitan
Living in large, exotic cities has put you in touch with many diverse civilizations, cultures, and races.
Benefit: You can speak and read two additional languages of your choice. In addition, choose two Intelligence-, Wisdom-, or Charisma-based skills. Those skills always count as class skills for you.
I dont want to be good at everything.
The character has to be Human for background/RPG reasons.
The character shouldnt be a barbarian.
I basically just want a fighter who uses a longsword or rapier. Offhand can be none or a dagger. But she is not a finesse character, even with a rapier (in fact I prefer the long sword even though it sucks because of the mediocre crit range etc). I am not looking for weapon finesse stuff. The character should be lightly armored and have full BAB and be able to survive on the front lines but without the need to be primary tank.
The character does need to be a spider-in-the-web/planner/information gatherer, and so I would like access to Diplomacy (thats where Gather Information is, right) and Knowledge (Local) and I am tempted to take a level in Bard (Archaeologist) strictly to get access to most of the social and knowledge skills.
But basically, longsword fighter in light armor but with the right social skills to be an information gatherer. But she is NOT a backstabber, a sneaker, or even good at traps.
Just a Streetwise/Knowledge/Planner light armored fighter. That is why I originally thought that maybe Archaeologist Bard 1/Urban Ranger X would be good.
She should be a thinker.
It kinda sounds like you are trying to be good at everything, or at least alot of things.
Full BAB
Front liner (even if not tank)
Sense motive
Bluff
Diplomacy
Knowledge local
Light armor but good AC
High strength
High dexterity
High charisma
High wisdom
High intelligence
That is a long list to be good at. I don't think there is any way to become very good at that many things at the same time.
Now if you say, "The skills aren't that important, I just want to have a few skill points in them and I don't care too much what the ability modifiers are." Then it becomes perfectly possible.
I would say you could get a pretty decent build with either lore warden or tactician. I'm not very familiar with the ranger types as I never get to play them.
Right, lore warden.
Actually, I'm a bit disturbed by how often lore warden seems to be the answer...
I must admit it does seem that if you start a sentence with "i want to be a fighter but..." lore warden does indeed seem to be the answer a large percentage of the time.
Archaeologist (Bard Archetype)
Ok so you don't get full BAB. However you get a nice number of rogueish traits, an adequate amount of spells and an ability that acts kinda like the usual bard perform stuff but instead of helping everyone you just supercharge yourself.
You get all the skills/abilities needed, you can just turn on the full BAB when you need it with the Archaeologist's luck ability, and some spells to boot!
Kydeem,
I dont think I want much. I basically just want a fighter with diplomacy, sense motive, and knowledge local. I dont view "you want light armor with high ac" as anything other than fluff.
Anyway, it looks like Lore Warden with some traits for social skills is just what the doctor ordered. I wont have a good AC tho, but oh well. Close enough.
I will prob do str 15, dx 14, con 14, int 14, wis 10, cha 13 (25 point buy) and put my human stat bonuses on dex, and put all my level up stat bonuses on strength.
Pipedreamsam,
I domt want the character to be a spellcaster really, or to have perform, so I domt think I want an all out archaeologist. At most I would do one level for skill access, and the archaeologist part would be more to avoid the perform stuff.
So either Lore Warden all the way, or Archaeologist 1/Lore Warden X.
Thanks all!
Cool, thanks!
So... why don't you just take the fighter's tactician archetype? Gives you tactics, diplomacy, sense motive, 4+ skill points. You might have to settle with medium instead of light armor for a decent AC, but with a shield and armor training it won't be so bad. Your fighter hp and decent AC should let you frontline effectively in a non-tank role, and the tactician feature lets you be a leader. Take the fast-talker trait and bluff is on your class skill list, and world traveler to get knowledge (local).
... and done.
This. You lose armor training at higher levels but you still get the benefits of the lower armor training levels which is all you need if you want to stay lightly armored.
Plus the fact that you can choose skill focus as a bonus feat also lets you boost skills more if you need to, and a fighter is swimming in feats so you don't have to give up much.
And I think the tactician feature and other bonuses make a better "leader" type than the lore warden, plus the tactician is PRD material (i.e., it's from a settingless PFRPG book) and the lore warden is not (it's from an accessory that is not a pure rulebook), which makes it more likely that a GM will accept it.
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A Cavalier with the Cosmopolitan trait can do all of this. If you have decent Dex and a buckler, you can wear light or medium armor and do just fine on the front line. You'll also have a pretty awesome steed, though you don't have to ride it-- a cavalier does just fine on foot.
I'd also recommend an armored coat, if only because I imagine it looks badass and helps with your "streetwise swashbuckler" persona. The Challenge ability means that you can do competitive damage without relying on critical hits or sneak attacks, and it further fits the idea of a guy who excels at dueling and bravado.
I think to get the role you want, you have to sacrifice full BAB. Anything else compromises on the role. You could possibly take one level of Bard or Rogue to get the trained skill bonus but the reason that characters with certain strengths don't get full BAB is that those strengths make up for the lower ability to thump things. Personally, I'd love to play a proper fighter-wizard a la Gwydion with full spell casting and full fighting powers. The rules don't let me. :-( A couple points off BAB as you go up levels won't hurt you that much and you can make up for them with other abilities. As a bard, you get your inspire courage, you get whip and rapier use (very swashbuckly), you don't have to pump dex so you can bump up your strength, the spells are flexible and can be used to enhance your melee (confusion and grease being very Erol Flynn effects). I'd say compromise on the power level you are seeking because it's probably an unreasonable aspiration and increase the 'fluff factor' to make the character the guy you want to be.
She is definitely not lawful.
To me the Lore Warden seems best, despite the hit to AC. She will be sharing the front lines with a (EDIT) Battle Cleric and a Barbarian anyway, so good enough. :)
Thanks all!
This may not be exactly what you're looking for, but I've been running a character lately who is without a doubt the most bad@ss fighter I've played and he is definitely educated and urban-themed. He's without a doubt the party's tactical and combat leader, but he leaves the face stuff to our party's Bard and Master Summoner.
Build can be found here.
I'd say tactician fighter 1/ ranger 19 will give you what your looking for.
You could go urban ranger for knowledge local, or you could grab it as a class skill with a trait or feat. Or you could just keep the ranks maxed and not worry about the +3 from it being a class skill. By mid levels the +3 doesn't make much of a difference anyway.
I have a build like this... Cavalier character. Played up to be a Longsword/Shortsword TWF duelist. It was a Fun character. Remember you don't actually need skills to be class skills to use them effectively. Though you can always take Cosmopolitan feat.
& Why does Lore Warden keep popping up?
Because it's the only way for CMB to keep pace with CMD. Also because it lets you be an int using non-caster without a PrC.I have a build like this... Cavalier character. Played up to be a Longsword/Shortsword TWF duelist. It was a Fun character. Remember you don't actually need skills to be class skills to use them effectively. Though you can always take Cosmopolitan feat.
& Why does Lore Warden keep popping up?
Meh, I haven't had any problems with my Martials and CMB/CMD or using INT.