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Greetings Mortals-
I love Organized Play conventions. I started going to them during my Living Greyhawk days (Theocracy of the the Pale), then moreso during my run in LFR, and when I started the Bay Area Pathfinder Society...it turns out that I started to run local PFS play at our local conventions.
I believe conventions are really important to building a local PFS community. In the Bay Area, we have PFS play in 10 different locations and those players get to come and melt and play together each and every convention. For me, I love seeing the same yahoos every convention and catching up and playing games. It's a part of building community.
In the Bay Area, we are blessed to have 4 great local conventions: DunDraCon (February), Conquest Sacramento (March), Kublacon (Memorial Day), and now Pacificon (Labor Day). We are about 10 weeks out from Pacificon and our Bay Area team has begun planning...and we're going to do it openly.
Pacificon 2012 (August 31 to Sept 3, SF Area, CA) is going to rock this year. The "Cincorate" (the 5 yahoos of the planning team) started planning with the following goals:
- Have a well-run, great fun Con.
- Run 150 tables of PFS.
- Train a few people on how to do things so that we have the next generation of Convention Coordinators ready.
- Have a broad base of GM support from all our different local Lodges, including many new GMs.
- Run the GenCon Special.
- Run 1 or 2 tables of Eyes of the Ten.
- Run a few tables of the Ruby Phoenix Tournament.
- Run a few more adapted scenarios.
- Run a slew of the newest PFS scenarios as long as old favorites
The point of this thread will be to discuss our planning process for Pacificon. We have 10 weeks until Pacificon.
The Cincorate and I will be posting to this thread all the stuff we're doing to plan and prepare for Pacificon. I know that we don't have the best convention practices (yet), but I hope that all y'all will share your experiences as well and so that the ability to run a good PFS convention becomes less of a mystery and more certain.
-Pain
p.s. The "Cincorate" (the planning team for Pacificon):
Verdigris, aka the Amazing Walking Wondrous Item
VL Brent H. (Sacramento)
VL Jerry C. (South Bay)
Lady Ophelia
A Yahoo
p.p.s. If any of you want to be invited to our next planning meeting or be more involved in this, please drop me a PM or email. See my alias for contact info.
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Our first online meeting was set up around our Pacificon Google Planning document.
Our agenda included assigning people to handle all the planning tasks for the Convention.
Organizational:
Organize 'leadership team'. -Painlord, 6/10/2012
Create event in Paizo system. -Venus, 6/10/2012
--See about Pacificon Convention Paizo Acct. Jerry, Done.
Set up Admin rights for Cincorate in Warhorn. Venus, 6/15/2012
Scheduling:
Pre-schedule. --Brent, 6/17/2012
Get feedback on Schedule from the Cincorate. --Brent, 6/19/0202
Post schedule to PFS Boards. --Brent, 6/20/2012
Redo Schedule based on Community feedback. --Brent, 6/25/2012
Give schedule to Venus for input into Pacificon Warhorn. --Brent, 6/26/2012
Publicity:
(Ongoing): Publicize on BAPS group. --Pain, ongoing
(Ongoing): Publicize on Sacto yahoo. --Brent/Venus, ongoing
(Ongoing): Publicize on Central Cal boards. --WillJ/Andi, ongoing
(Ongoing): Publicize on PFS boards. --Cincorate ongoing
Reporting and GM & Player Rewards:
Fill out Paizo Con support paperwork. --Jerry, 6/30/2012
Get Judge list to Pacificon for free badges. --Cincorate
Confirm PFS space at Pacificon (20 tables min for Saturday/Sunday). --Venus, 8/10/2012
Get scenario list to Paizo for scenario downloads. --Pain, 8/10/2012
Manage Paizo Guest and Schedule Azmyth. Pain, Done.
--Venus will confirm with Mondo about GV needs and requirements. --Venus, 6/15/2012
Judging:
Appoint Head Judges. --Pain, 8/25/2012
Arrange Judge Rewards. --TBD, 6/30/2012
-Speak with Mondo concerning staff rewards from convention. Badge, extra bonuses, etc. --Venus, 6/15/2012
Get scenarios into our judges PFS accounts & on USB. --TBD. 8/15/2012.
Judge Wrangling. --Cincorate, ongoing.
There is more stuff on the Timeline tab of the Pacificon Google Planning doc, however, our first meeting only covered the initial steps. We have much more to cover in the weeks ahead. We are organized and trying to get stuff done well ahead of our convention date.
* * *
How BAPS determines what scenarios/modules/specials to run at Pacificon:
1) We discuss, in general, what mods we want to run at the con based on availability and what is projected to be released.
GenCon Special 2 slots
Blood Under Absalom 2 slots
Eyes of the Ten
2 Cattle Call GMs
Season 3: 3-09 to 3-26
Season 4: 4-01 to 4-04
Fury of the Fiend
Sarkosian Prophesy
Beginners Box
Cyphermage
We Be Goblins
Dawn Of Scarlett Sun
Shadows Fall on Absalom
Below the Silver Tarn
Shades of Ice 1, 2, 3
And mods by request. (See step 4.)
2) We email all the local store organizers and ask them to avoid running those mods before the con. (Which may or may not be a good practice, I debate it.)
It's my responsibility to email our local store coordinators to ask them to not run any late Season 3 or Season 4 scenarios before the convention.
Pros:
Gives a boost to convention attendance
Creates a pool of GMs for the new mods after the convention
Highlights the importance of the convention as an event
Cons:
Has nearly every run of new scenario at the convention 'new/fresh'
Might annoy local coordinators who are scheduling mod-to-mouth
uhm...yeah. Your thoughts?
3) One person takes a stab at putting the schedule together. When done, he gives it to the rest of team to discuss and nitpick. Revisions are made.
VL Brent did a great job with the initial schedule. You can see it on the 'Schedule' tab of the Pacificon Google Planning doc.
4) When the internal changes are made, the draft schedule is posted to the Yahoo group for everyone to discuss, amend, and suggest.
This is the most important step, imho. This sort of approval and sharing gets buy-in from the community that they are part of this as well...and responsible too for finding mistakes and what not. We want our community excited about the schedule. Giving them ample chance to amend and add to it is crucial.
5) The schedule is amended based on community feedback.
6) The schedule is put into Pacificon Warhorn.
7) We double check to make the Warhorn matches the draft schedule.
So, there you go. How do you decide what mods to run at your conventions?
-Pain
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Contributor, RPG Superstar 2010 Top 16
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You and Verdigris are organizing another one? What do the rest of those good for nothings in the Bay Area do? Don't you guys sleep? I'm going to have to talk to Verdigris about this, it cuts into our bi-weekly gaming schedule.
Shoot me an email if you need some light duty help. The boss and I should be able to participate in this one.
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You and Verdigris are organizing another one? What do the rest of those good for nothings in the Bay Area do? Don't you guys sleep? I'm going to have to talk to Verdigris about this, it cuts into our bi-weekly gaming schedule.
Verdigris is an unstoppable machine of awesome. I can't contain her...what makes you think you can?
-Pain
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Hey now, there will be no containing of anyone, at least, not until this Convention is in full swing. We, the Cincorate, and any willing BAPS yahoo we can finagle into signing up, will make sure this thing is an unstoppable force of fun and PFS goodness come Labor Day Weekend.
I know what you're thinking, "Labor Day is 10 long weeks away, and I can't wait that long for the fun to start" Well, the good news is you don't have to! That's right, the fun can start right away, just follow along on the planning document.
For instance, we didn't really deal with it too much at the first meeting because it really kicks in later, but we still have a lot of posters, fliers, handouts and table numbers to work through, so if people are interested in that part of the process, there are THREE pages worth of printing organization and design work to watch.
But even more exciting (oh *so* much more exciting) than that is the scheduling process. Brent and Pain have put together an amazing list, but it's nothing compared to what we'll have once the BAPS group has looked it over and made their suggestions. It's this kind of openness that made me want to volunteer in the first place. If there is something you want to see on the schedule, now is the time to step up and say so, to talk to others and let us know.
And Dennis? I will definitely be in touch. I can't think of two greater people to take advantage of...errr, I mean, to lean on. Thanks!
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My Humble Cincorate Beginnings
My adventures in the Cincorate, actually started at ConQuest Sacramento earlier this year. I volunteered to be an assistant but eventually evolved into the fearless, insane, leader of the Pathfinder Society games at ConQuest Sacramento. Now granted, I've coordinated events and have been on staff coordinating for gaming events and different conventions, but this was my fist time that I ever was in charge. So it was quite a big learning experience for me. I learned how to run an entire room and manage all the fun and nerve wracking parts. Now granted I had loads of help from the Cincorate (whom had not yet formed the organization) but they were so immeasurably helpful in keeping me sane and making sure all the tables were organized and went off without any major hiccups! We had loads of fun and I finally got to meet people that I only emailed or skyped with before the event. As a result, I have names to go with faces, and that's always for the win.
Immediately after ConQuest Sacramento, I was immediately recruited (auto-recruited) to be part of the PacifiCon team. As I know the entire staff well at this point (Both convention and Cincorate staffs) I was ready! A little ready as I found out because I started getting the ball rolling, while KublaCon was about to take place. After Master Painlord and Master Azmyth made me slow down and wait till after the convention, we began our master building conversations. Which eventually formed the Cincorate. The Cincorate is made of two Venture-Lieutenants (three including Will), and three yahoos/local coordinators who are really good at coordinating conventions. If we add our Venture-Capitan, that makes us seven. So we actually should be the "Sietecorate"...
But I am digressing..
I am very honored to share my journey with all of you. Also, thanks for letting me be a part of the BAPS community. I come from a very isolated gaming area, and I created my local society, to not only meet new people, but at the same time, to be a part of a bigger community than just the same people I always see every week. Don't get me wrong, I love em, but it's nice to have a little more variety and know that wherever I go, I am going to be able to network and meet new people who share my mutual enjoyment of the game.
In my next post, I will be sharing with you all my two departments of PacifiCon, Guest Relations and Facilities. It's going to be an event to remember, and I'm looking forward to it!
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Contributor, RPG Superstar 2010 Top 16
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You and Verdigris are organizing another one? What do the rest of those good for nothings in the Bay Area do?
Quite a lot of other things, such as run our weekly game days and be GM's and play every once in a while. :)
There are a few... Like you good sir... Who write :D...
Most sincere apologies, I did not mean to lump you and the other co-organizers in with the 'good for nothings' in the Bay area. Obviously you, Brent, and Jerry are going to be plenty busy also. I was thinking of the folks who weren't participating.
FWIW, hard to type with foot in mouth.
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Pacificon Pre-Schedule
Hello fellow mortals,
Yet again I have fallen sway to Painlord's Indoctrination Kublacookies and am compelled to obey. Today's directive was to post the process I went through to create the Pacificon Pre-Schedule. So after the requisite amount of editing and obeisance I submit the following:
After our initial planning meeting we had a list of which scenarios and modules we want to run at Pacificon per #1 on Painlord's list above. I won't go into detail about the process but there may have been tentacle wrestling and gummy worm sacrifices involved. I also knew how many tables we are shooting for. The overall strategy I had was to create a skeleton for the event, add some musculature, and then flesh it out.
Creating the Skeleton
1) First I took into account the information regarding how many tables we are shooting for this year (150) and used it as a basis for how many tables we would need in each slot. I weighted it thusly:
Friday afternoon-8 tables
evening-15 tables
Saturday morning-15 tables
afternoon-20 tables
evening-20 tables
Sunday morning-15 tables
afternoon-20 tables
evening-20 tables
Monday morning-10 tables
afternoon-8 tables
For a total of 151 tables
Adding the Musculature
When I looked at our initial list, I wanted to consider which items were going to be taking up the most GMs and Organizers and use those as anchor points. With that in mind, the first three items on the list seemed to be the ones that would be utilizing GM's and Organizers the most.
GenCon Special 2 slots
Blood Under Absalom 2 slots
Eyes of the Ten
2 Cattle Call GMs
Season 3: 3-09 to 3-26
Season 4: 4-01 to 4-04
Fury of the Fiend
Sarkosian Prophesy
Beginners Box
Cyphermage
We Be Goblins
Dawn Of Scarlett Sun
Shadows Fall on Absalom
Below the Silver Tarn
Shades of Ice 1, 2, 3
And mods by request. (See step 4.)
2)Of the three I decided to start with
The Gencon Special
We expect that most of the players will be attending on Saturday and Sunday, so putting it on Friday or Monday was out of the question. I put this event on Saturday afternoon-evening because I think that the players will be less fatigued and have more fun with this event than if we ran it on Sunday afternoon-evening. Because of the nature of these events, I filled up all the tables in these slots with the event except for the GM pool slots.
3) The next largest event is
I put this event on Monday so that the main two days of the event aren't eaten up by large events. Also it ends the convention with something special, which is nice.
4) Although the third item on the list doesn't necessarily take a lot of GMs or organizers to run, I noticed that a lot of the key people for running the first two items sign up to play in it.
With that in mind, I placed these scenarios during the time slots that are opposite the first two events on list.
5) The next order of business was creating an overflow GM pool. Painlord does this using the Intro series modules. Every slot has two tables designated to running a scenario from the Intro series modules. We state up front that GMs who sign up to run these games may be asked to run elsewhere if needed. This way if we get enough players to run an intro scenario we can, but we also have at least a couple of GMs on standby if things go south at another table. If there aren't enough players for an intro scenario, and the GMs aren't needed elsewhere, they are released to the player pool at the start of the slot. This is just one example of the organizing genius of he-who-causes-pain.
Per his directives I added two tables of intro scenarios per slot.
6) We are lucky enough to have enough Venture Officers that attend our events to be able to run a few tables of the Cyphermage Dilemma, and since some of our Venture Officers tend to help organize as well, it seemed prudent to take a look at what the availability was like now before getting into setting up the regular scenarios.
Friday afternoon and Sunday evening slots are slots that didn't have special events so availability should be better for those who can run it during those times. Also, having it run on Sunday evening seemed like a nice endcap game for attendees who can't make it for Monday.
7) The last thing I needed to do before placing regular scenarios was to took a look at modules that we want to run. The best slots available were all day Sunday, and Friday slots plus Saturday morning. That way neither of them conflict with special events I referred to earlier.
In our meeting I think we talked about
Fleshing it Out
I was now at the point where all I had left were scenarios and a couple of short modules (i.e. ones that could be run in one slot).
8) The following short modules were on the request list, so I placed them on Friday and Monday, and did it in a way so that those who miss the first and last slots of the convention still have an opportunity to play each of them if they wish.
9) Next, I assigned the four 7-11 scenarios that were requested and placed them in slots that didn't have special events.
10) There was a trilogy of scenarios that was requested, so I assigned them to be run all day on Sunday.
11) The rest of it was filling up the remaining slots with the block of scenarios that had been chosen to be run at the convention.
Scenarios 3-09 through 3-26 and 4-01 through 4-04
I weighted the mods for each day so that there were more lower level slots and fewer higher level slots, taking into account what had already been assigned in each slot.
And that, fellow supplicants, is how to figure out how to fill out 150+ tables of gaming for your local neighborhood convention. :-)
Have Fun! (and stay away from the cookies)
Brent
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Most sincere apologies, I did not mean to lump you and the other co-organizers in with the 'good for nothings' in the Bay area. Obviously you, Brent, and Jerry are going to be plenty busy also. I was thinking of the folks who weren't participating.
FWIW, hard to type with foot in mouth.
No worries Master Baker, as we will find you plenty of work to do so I can sleep a little more. :D Perhaps running a game or two of God's Market Gamble may be in the works for you :D
And yes, Sleep is very much for the non-coordinators/GM of our society. But without them, I would be planning for a very empty room which is no fun.
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Guest Relations and Facilities Reports!-6/17/12
This year at PacifiCon, I am going to be your Guest Relations and Facilities Specialist. Which means, I will be assisting our special guest Greg Vaughn and sharing with you all of his adventures, but I will also be in charge of working on the facilities of our Room Of Total Awesomeness.
Our Special Guest: Greg A. Vaughn!
Our Special Guest is Greg A. Vaughn.. If you are a Society regular, you may know his adventures that he has been a part of: "Murder On The Silken Caravan", "Echoes of Everwar", "Hersey of Man", and "King Xeros of Old Azlant". But if you are regular campaigner of Adventure Paths, he's been a part of every current AP that is available from Paizo. On top of that, he has written and published his own Adventure Path for Pathfinder called "The Slumbering Tsar Saga", so although I have never met him, he sounds pretty darn cool.
We plan on having him host not only part of our Saturday Special of Race For The Runecarved Key. (Also known as The GenCon Special) But we also are working to have him host a regular adventure or two as well. *Crosses fingers for Murder On The Silken Caravan* Of course he will have time for autographs, and chatting with all of my fellow gamers!
We are also working on having him host a few panel sessions as well during the weekend. Some of the topics will definitely include building games and adventure paths, and hopefully, perhaps chatting about how to write for Pathfinder Society.. As there are quite a lot of writers in the making in our area. So he's got quite a lot of guest fun things for him to do!
We are going to have more information in the coming weeks, so stay tuned!
The Game Room of Awesomeness
Also known as: Where you'll be spending most of your weekend!
I am happy to announce that we are going to be securing a room all to ourselves to have our way with and mega decorate! We also are going to have some overflow tables in case we are in need of more games for newcomers. And we expect to have a lot.. Since I am a health care professional, please expect there to be loads of garbage cans for trash, hand sanitizer for the germ-a-phobes, and possibly a bottle of Febreeze to air the room out with at the end of each night.
As your facilities specialist, I know that my major concerns are comfy seats, plenty of space to make sure you hear yourselves chat, and enough room for all the special events we plan on having. (Which from the preliminary schedule... Is a lot..) I also am aware that power is a major issue when attending conventions thanks to the digital age of gaming.
We have a game room need list of power strips and extension cords to borrow during the weekend. We are also looking for printers, copiers, ink and paper donations, to share for players and GM use during the weekend. As well as to help our printing Mistress Verdigris/Andi in her endeavors to make the room our own. As we are still in the development and securing of room assignments, I shall have more to report in the next coming weeks.
But I ask you my fellow convention goers: What do you look for in good gaming room? If you plan on attending or are thinking about it, what would you like to see the room have/do for you?
This is all I have to report for now, I have a big feeling that in the next week or so, I'll have more to announce, so keep reading this production thread, and stay tuned for the non-production thread coming soon!
Take care!
Venus/Lady Ophelia
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Hi all!
Here is what I did to enter scenarios for the Warhorn with Kubla (and our local FLGS Warhorn) and it works quite well. It's VITALLY important to note the tiers in as many places as possible. Your players need to easily see where they can sign up with the levels they have to avoid conflict and confusion on game day.
Scenario Name
PS#1-55: The Infernal Vault (1-7)
NOTE that I put the PS ID at the front, the name, and then the full tier range in the title.
Scenario Author
Thurston Hillman
Scenario Description
A decade ago, the Decklands family, a house of Chelish nobles, were exiled from Absalom for treason. Their fate made for an interesting story and when a Pathfinder agent in Cheliax studying the family's long history and exile from the City at the Center of the World ends up murdered, the Society sends you to the recently discovered Deckland Vaults in Absalom to see what connection their old home might have to your murdered colleague.
This product is a Pathfinder Society Scenario designed for 1st to 7th level characters (Tiers: 1-2, 3-4, and 6-7).
NOTE that I put the tier range and the sub-tiers at the end. This info is easily cut-and-pasted from the description on the Paizo site so it doesn't take much time.
Campaign
Pathfinder Society
NOTE - duh. :D
Bring characters for level
1 to 7
NOTE that I put the tiers here too, but I don't know that Warhorn actually uses this field anywhere useful. Still, I put it here to be complete.
Game System
Pathfinder
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If you have any questions or want me to do one as an example, feel free to contact me directly at efernsler@gmail.com.
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Wow! I'm copying and pasting all these goodies for future use.
I gotta say when I unknowingly stepped into the Coordinator shoes this year at Origins. I tried to implement all of the great things I saw at Kublacon in terms of organizing. It definitely helped my cause.
Pain and the rest of his team did a really good job and more importantly he made everyone feel welcomed regardless of what issues arose. I think that probably one of the most important aspects of conventions - the social part - Since a majority of gamers are introverts and really only open up when they're amongst other gamers - it's especially important to making people feel at ease and willing to come back again and play the next time.
Train a few people on how to do things so that we have the next generation of Convention Coordinators ready.
- IMO this is needed in my neck of the woods. Hopefully I'll be able to share the stuff in here and help to get better conventions rolling.
Have a broad base of GM support from all our different local Lodges, including many new GMs.
-We're having issues with the 'shake the leaves' concept but were hopeful and would like to get some rules-savvy players step up and GM.
How do you address the Following?
1. So your Organizing at a Convention but your not running the overall con, and many of the things such as the actual games/#tables being run is not what the Convention Pamphlet is showing and the con organizers are late on posting information. You're down to the last two weeks and still nothing.
2. Estimating # of Tables offered Vs. Actual player base/con attendance.
Thanks
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Venture-Captain, California—San Francisco Bay Area South & West
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You and Verdigris are organizing another one? What do the rest of those good for nothings in the Bay Area do?
We sit around nitpicking (like pointing out that it should probably be Quinvirate/Septemvirate rather than Cincorate/Sietecorate).
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Venture-Captain, California—San Francisco Bay Area South & West
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Great work, guys!
I've just taken a quick look at the preliminary schedule. I already have one observation:
It might be a nice idea to shuffle the schedule of the late season three events on Friday so that there's at least one of the lower-tier events released since Kublacon available in each slot. As things stand now, if you ran up to 3-18 at Kublacon you have nothing to play during the first slot, and a choice between 3-21, 3-25 and 3-25 in the second slot.
I'd suggest swapping the Friday Tier 3-7s (3-16 & 3-25) so that there was a new Tier 3-7 available in the first slot, and a choice between a Tier 1-5 and a Tier 5-9 in the second slot. This gives players who went to Kublacon the best chance of finding a seat.
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Contributor, RPG Superstar 2010 Top 16
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I'm going to attribute this to Brent's genius and not blind luck, but one of the first things I looked for is scenarios that I know tend to run long. I was pleased to see God's Market and Temple of Empyreal Enlightenment offered during the 7-11 slots.
This is perfect because it means that GM's can let these two fantastic scenarios breathe. Running both in four hours is a sprint that does a disservice to two very fun scenarios.
Good call, then after their characters are killed, players can cry themselves to sleep rather than ruin a full day at the con.
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How do you address the Following?
1. So your Organizing at a Convention but your not running the overall con, and many of the things such as the actual games/#tables being run is not what the Convention Pamphlet is showing and the con organizers are late on posting information. You're down to the last two weeks and still nothing.
2. Estimating # of Tables offered Vs. Actual player base/con attendance.
Hi Shivok! Congrats on a successful Orgins! I didn't get to go, but I heard great things, so it's on my list of conventions to go to in the near future!
There are a few ways to deal with knowing how many tables vs. who actually shows up.
Firstly: Having a separate Warhorn or equivalent site for players to sign up for PFS games helps. The way we're doing it with PacifiCon, is that our head of registration, is an admin, and as players signup for the schedule they are cleared by our registration staff on Warhorn. If they are not cleared, then they can email registration and see what is up. If they are a GM, they email you, and you clear them so that way you know who your GM's are and who your players are.
Secondly: If that is not doable for the convention staff, ask to have administration rights for the convention's lottery system just for PFS games. Offering to manage the room, with no additional help from the staff does wonders to overloaded convention staff members.
Doing one of these two things, help you be able to see who's already signed up and paid to show up for the convention. You also get your GM headcount so if you need more GM's, you have time to shake the tree a bit.
Third: When convention comes, it's best to have a few spare GM's available for the overflow. Many times most players are actually GM's who can easily jump out and help if you are in need. It's always good to have an extra table or two logistically just in case as well. If this is not possible, find some nice quiet spaces nearby the room in case someone has questions.
Hope some of that will help Shivok!
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You and Verdigris are organizing another one? What do the rest of those good for nothings in the Bay Area do?We sit around nitpicking (like pointing out that it should probably be Quinvirate/Septemvirate rather than Cincorate/Sietecorate).
Quinvirate doesn't sound good as a battle cry my friend. And Sietecorate was just to keep with the Spanish number system here.
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Venture-Captain, California—San Francisco Bay Area South & West
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Quinvirate doesn't sound good as a battle cry my friend. And Sietecorate was just to keep with the Spanish number system here.You and Verdigris are organizing another one? What do the rest of those good for nothings in the Bay Area do?We sit around nitpicking (like pointing out that it should probably be Quinvirate/Septemvirate rather than Cincorate/Sietecorate).
Well, that's really my point :-) I was putting on my pedant hat and suggesting you stick to the Latin number system of Decemvirate, rather than wandering off into another language.
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Quinvirate doesn't sound good as a battle cry my friend. And Sietecorate was just to keep with the Spanish number system here.You and Verdigris are organizing another one? What do the rest of those good for nothings in the Bay Area do?We sit around nitpicking (like pointing out that it should probably be Quinvirate/Septemvirate rather than Cincorate/Sietecorate).Well, that's really my point :-) I was putting on my pedant hat and suggesting you stick to the Latin number system of Decemvirate, rather than wandering off into another language.
Our leadership team isn't ten people. I wanted to originally, but was overruled.
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Quinvirate doesn't sound good as a battle cry my friend. And Sietecorate was just to keep with the Spanish number system here.You and Verdigris are organizing another one? What do the rest of those good for nothings in the Bay Area do?We sit around nitpicking (like pointing out that it should probably be Quinvirate/Septemvirate rather than Cincorate/Sietecorate).Well, that's really my point :-) I was putting on my pedant hat and suggesting you stick to the Latin number system of Decemvirate, rather than wandering off into another language.
It's still in Latin, well a different kind of Latin! ;)
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I'm going to attribute this to Brent's genius and not blind luck, but one of the first things I looked for is scenarios that I know tend to run long. I was pleased to see God's Market and Temple of Empyreal Enlightenment offered during the 7-11 slots.
This is perfect because it means that GM's can let these two fantastic scenarios breathe. Running both in four hours is a sprint that does a disservice to two very fun scenarios.
Thanks Will! You're right, it was my genius, and had nothing to do with my dart labeled '7-11' hitting the sticky notes hanging on the wall with those scenario's names on it. :-)
Sheer genius!|
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I'm going to attribute this to Brent's genius and not blind luck, but one of the first things I looked for is scenarios that I know tend to run long. I was pleased to see God's Market and Temple of Empyreal Enlightenment offered during the 7-11 slots.
This is perfect because it means that GM's can let these two fantastic scenarios breathe. Running both in four hours is a sprint that does a disservice to two very fun scenarios.
Thanks Will! You're right, it was my genius, and had nothing to do with my dart labeled '7-11' hitting the sticky notes hanging on the wall with those scenario's names on it. :-)
Sheer genius!
Hey now, coordinating schedules are not easy. I remember at ConQuest Sac that I had accidentally put a few wrong tiers on some of the modules and I got a field day of emails. LOL.
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Good call, then after their characters are killed, players can cry themselves to sleep rather than ruin a full day at the con.I'm going to attribute this to Brent's genius and not blind luck, but one of the first things I looked for is scenarios that I know tend to run long. I was pleased to see God's Market and Temple of Empyreal Enlightenment offered during the 7-11 slots.
This is perfect because it means that GM's can let these two fantastic scenarios breathe. Running both in four hours is a sprint that does a disservice to two very fun scenarios.
Dennis actually caught on to my real motivation for placing these games in the evening slots... :-)
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Great work, guys!I've just taken a quick look at the preliminary schedule. I already have one observation:
It might be a nice idea to shuffle the schedule of the late season three events on Friday so that there's at least one of the lower-tier events released since Kublacon available in each slot. As things stand now, if you ran up to 3-18 at Kublacon you have nothing to play during the first slot, and a choice between 3-21, 3-25 and 3-25 in the second slot.
I'd suggest swapping the Friday Tier 3-7s (3-16 & 3-25) so that there was a new Tier 3-7 available in the first slot, and a choice between a Tier 1-5 and a Tier 5-9 in the second slot. This gives players who went to Kublacon the best chance of finding a seat.
Thanks for the feedback John!
I actually placed the newer scenarios in the Friday evening slot because we expect many more players to be available for that slot, and I wanted to let the newer modules have greater exposure.
I'll take this into consideration and see what we can come up with before submitting the Schedule to Venus for posting on warhorn. As always, I want to accommodate where I can, but can't promise anything.
Brent
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Hey Everyone,
The next step in my part of the process was receiving feedback about the Pre-Schedule from the Cincorate, making adjustments to the proposed schedule, and submitting it to our gamers for feedback.
After some discussion amongst the Cincorate I made a few additions to the schedule, and posted the following message to the Yahoo groups for the Bay Area and Sacramento areas:
BEGIN TRANSMISSION...
Hello Everyone,
Below is the draft schedule for Pacificon (http://www.pacificongameexpo.com). This is an opportunity for you to give feedback before posting the schedule on warhorn.
We are shooting for ~150 tables at Pacificon. I'm particularly excited about this year's convention because not only are we going to be the first major convention after GenCon to be running the new Special, but we are also running the Special Blood Under Absolom! If you also factor in that we have more Eyes of the Ten goodness, The Cyphermage Dilemma, and a flurry of new scenarios that have been released since Kublacon, this is definitely turning out to be a convention that can't be missed.
Without further ado, here's the proposed schedule for Pacificon (Labor Day Weekend August 31st - Sept 3rd):
Fri: 2-6:
#3-00 Intro 1, 2, or 3 (level 1)
#3-19 The Icebound Outpost (1-5)
#3-EX: The Cyphermage Dilemma (1-5)
Mod: We Be Goblins (special)
#3-16 The Midnight Mauler (3-7)
Mod: No Response from Deepmar: Part 1 (7-9)
#3-20 The Rats of Round Mountain – Part I: The Sundered Path (7-11)
#1-46 Eyes of the Ten – Part I: Requiem for the Red Raven (level 12)
Fri: 7-11:
#3-00 Intro 1, 2, or 3 (level 1)
#3-18 The God's Market Gamble (1-5)
#3-21 The Temple of Empyreal Enlightenment (1-5)
Mod: Dawn of the Scarlett Sun (4-6)
#3-25 Storming the Diamond Gate (3-7)
Mod: No Response from Deepmar: Part 2 (7-9)
#3-24 The Golden Serpent (5-9)
#3-22 The Rats of Round Mountain – Part II: Pagoda of the Rat (7-11)
#2-04 Shadows Fall on Absalom (7-11)
#3-17 Red Harvest (7-11)
#1-46 Eyes of the Ten – Part I: Requiem for the Red Raven (cont.)
Sat: 9-1:
#3-00 Intro 1, 2, or 3 (level 1)
#4-01 Rise of the Goblin Guild (1-5)
#3-23 The Goblinoid Dead (1-5)
#4-02 In Wrath's Shadow (3-7)
Mod: No Response from Deepmar: Part 3 (7-9)
#4-03 The Golemworks Incident (5-9)
#4-04 King of the Storval Stairs (7-11)
#2-10 Fury of the Fiend (7-11)
#1-54 Eyes of the Ten - Part II: The Twofold Demise (level 12)
Sat: 2-6:
Gen Con Special - Part I
Sat: 7-11:
Gen Con Special - Part II
Sun: 9-1:
#3-00 Intro 1, 2, or 3 (level 1)
#3-19 The Icebound Outpost (1-5)
#3-09 The Quest for Perfection – Part I: the Edge of Heaven (1-5)
#2-15 Shades of Ice – Part I: Written in Blood (1-5)
Mod: The Midnight Mirror: Part I (3-5)
#3-25 Storming the Diamond Gate (3-7)
#3-12 Wonders in the Weave – Part I: The Dog Pharaoh's Tomb (5-9)
Mod: The Ruby Phoenix Tournament: Part I (10-12)
#4-04 King of the Storval Stairs (7-11)
#2-12 Below the Silver Tarn (7-11)
#1-46 Eyes of the Ten – Part I: Requiem for the Red Raven (Level 12)
#2-05 Eyes of the Ten - Part III: Red Revolution (level 12)
Sun: 2-6:
#3-00 Intro 1, 2, or 3 (level 1)
#4-01 Rise of the Goblin Guild (1-5)
#3-11 The Quest for Perfection – Part II: On Hostile Waters (1-5)
#2-17 Shades of Ice – Part II: Exiles of Winter (1-5)
#3-18 The God's Market Gamble (1-5)
Mod: The Midnight Mirror: Part II (3-5)
#4-02 In Wrath's Shadow (3-7)
#3-24 The Golden Serpent (5-9)
#3-14 Wonders in the Weave – Part II: Snakes in the Fold (5-9)
Mod: The Ruby Phoenix Tournament: Part II (10-12)
#3-20 The Rats of Round Mountain – Part I: The Sundered Path (7-11)
#2-08 The Sarkosian Prophesy (7-11)
#2-22 Eyes of the Ten - Part IV: Nothing Ventured, Nothing Gained (level 12)
#1-46 Eyes of the Ten – Part I: Requiem for the Red Raven (cont.) (Level 12)
Sun: 7-11:
#3-00 Intro 1, 2, or 3 (level 1)
#3-EX: The Cyphermage Dilemma (1-5)
#3-13 The Quest for Perfection – Part III: Defenders of Nesting Swallow (1-5)
#2-19 Shades of Ice – Part III: Keep of the Huscarl King (1-5)
#3-21 The Temple of Empyreal Enlightenment (1-5)
Mod: The Midnight Mirror: Part III (3-5)
#3-25 Storming the Diamond Gate (3-7)
#3-15 The Haunting of Hinojai (5-9)
#3-10 The Immortal Conundrum (5-9)
Mod: The Ruby Phoenix Tournament: Part III (10-12)
#3-22 The Rats of Round Mountain – Part II: Pagoda of the Rat (7-11)
#3-26 Portal of the Sacred Rune (7-11)
#1-54 Eyes of the Ten - Part II: The Twofold Demise (Level 12)
Mon: 9-1:
#3-00 Intro 1, 2, or 3 (level 1)
Blood Under Absalom – Part I (1-11)
Mod: We Be Goblins (special)
#0-03 Murder on the Silken Caravan (1-5)
#4-02 In Wrath's Shadow (3-7)
#0-20 King Xeros of Old Azlant (7-11)
#4-04 King of the Storval Stairs (7-11)
#2-05 Eyes of the Ten - Part III: Red Revolution (level 12)
Mon: 2-6:
#3-00 Intro 1, 2, or 3 (level 1)
Blood Under Absalom – Part II (1-11)
#0-03 Murder on the Silken Caravan (1-5)
Mod: Dawn of the Scarlett Sun (4-6)
#1-42 Echoes of the Everwar—Part II: The Watcher of Ages (7-11)
#2-22 Eyes of the Ten - Part IV: Nothing Ventured, Nothing Gained (level 12)
Is that awesome or what?
Send any comments, problems or changes to brenthberry at yahoo dot com. I'll
be accepting changes and suggestions until midnight Monday night 6/25. If there is a particular
mod or scenario you want to run, please let me know.
Have Fun!
Brent Holtsberry, Pacificon Cincorate Chewtoy
END TRANSMISSION...
So now I will collect any feedback I get by Monday at midnight, and submit it to the Cincorate for inclusion into the schedule.
I hope this helps explain this part of the process. Don't hesitate to post any questions!
Brent
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And now how to bribe Mrs. Shivok to let me go back to her home state w/o taking her along.... hmmm....
Shivok, you're thinking about this the wrong way. Bring her along, sit her next to the right people (ie, someone that can infect her with the PFS bug). Pretty soon, you'll be trying to figure out how to convince her not to go to every Convention that comes on her radar. ;)
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So if you've been reading this thread, you are beginning to piece together who is running what in the Pre-Convention stage so far:
Painlord: Master of All Departments... (With or without a whip in hand, I am not sure.)
Verdigris: Our Mistress of Printable Wondrous Items and Digital Marketing
VL Brent: The Creator of "The Master Schedule of The PFS Room"
VL Jerry: Our Paizo Liason: He is responsible for all the Paizo related communicados we are required to make.
VL Will: Our Networking, Marketing and Convention Travel Expert
VC Azmyth: He's the King of our area, but allows Painlord to inflict pain as needed. (not really inflicting pain, but you get what we mean..)
Lady Ophelia (me): My major departments are Guest Relations (Greg A. Vaughn,GM's and players), Mistress of Facilities and the Warhorn Site..
So now we're at today's post:
The Digital Schedule Conundrum...
One of the other things I am responsible for is I am charged with the title of Mistress of The Warhorn Site. This means, if you plan on being a GM, you will be chatting with me. This also means, if you are going to be signing up for any game slots at PacifiCon, you will treading on my schedule. Yesterday, Brent submitted in this thread, our current master schedule. *points to thread higher up*
Tomorrow, I begin the four day process of trying to put this monster that is the master schedule together to prepare for our final hurdle in the pre-con planning process. We are still taking feedback on the schedule from now until Monday about things you would like to see and not see done in the schedule!
If you see something you want us to do more of, or add, please email Master Brent at brenthberry@yahoo.com, he will forward it to me, and we shall make every effort to meet the gamers' needs! But if you say nothing now, you don't get the right to complain once the schedule goes live.. You have been forewarned.
While we are having the conversations about the digital schedule, let me tell you about digital scheduling that you may need for your convention:
1) If you are in doubt about something, have a feedback session with your general gaming group. They will let you know what they think about whatever it is you need to know. You may not like all the responses, but at least for the most part they will be honest ones. For us in BAPS and SAC, we have a Yahoo Email Group, where our gamers can come and let us know what they think. If your gaming group has something similar, consider it. If they don't, make one!
2) Always make sure you leave time for logistical things. One of the big things we are chatting about right now is that a lot of players want to have a 9am game slot on Friday.
The problem with this, is that a lot of the staff will not be arriving till after 9am when the games would begin. So we would not be able to give the early morning GM's what they would need. Now we do have a few options right now on the table such as a few Seminars (GM 101, Q&A with Greg Vaughn, Open Character Building, or a few other seminar ideas.) and possibly having some open "pickup" gaming. But whatever we finally decide, we have to make sure we leave time for our logistics to do what they need to get done, so that we have an optimal gaming experience for the entire weekend.
3) Don't be afraid to share your issues and needs with your convention liaison. Many times, they will be able to help you make it work, but sometimes, they may have their hands tied. At smaller conventions most will be able to flex a bit and make something work. Bigger conventions not so much, but by sharing with them what's going on, you can definitely build a stronger relationship with them, and in future years be able to have better accommodations. You never know until you speak with them, so don't go at it alone, chat with them and see what they can do for you!
4) Be patient. When in charge of the digital schedule, there are going to be revisions. Lots. Although I am going to build the skeleton tomorrow, it's still going to at least be another week before it's finalized and I can finally say "GO!!" to all those who are signing up for the weekend sessions.
5) If you are in absolute doubt about a scenario: Make sure to wait until signups are underway. Say you have this one scenario that everyone says you shouldn't have on the schedule, but your leadership team is adamant about keeping it, offer it and let the players decide. If the players meet the legal table size (or exceed it) Then you made the right decision, if it stays barren, you can reduce your schedule.
6) Speaking on Reducing: It's not always a bad thing to have to reduce your schedule. It usually means that your players know what they want to do, and where they are going. It's also good because then if you have leftover GM's they immediately become your spare ones, and if there is overflow (which always seems to happen), then you have a GM to make it all work!
7) Start EARLY!!! The sooner you start working on the master schedule, the sooner you can let people signup, and then if there are errors, you can catch them quite quickly and make them work out! Don't wait till the day before you open up registration! I made that mistake at ConQuest Sacramento and had loads of errors. So after a "flurry of emails" from my area, I was racing to get it all fixed. Take your time and build a little at a time.
Those are my general tips to dealing with digital schedules. If you have more specific questions, feel free to reply here or PM me for more help!
Next Post: The Coordinator's Wishlist....
-Venus
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Venture-Captain, California—San Francisco Bay Area South & West
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The Digital Schedule Conundrum...
One of the other things I am responsible for is I am charged with the title of Mistress of The Warhorn Site. This means, if you plan on being a GM, you will be chatting with me.
Do you want GMs to contact you beforehand about what they could run, or just sign up once the Warhorn site goes live?
Always make sure you leave time for logistical things. One of the big things we are chatting about right now is that a lot of players want to have a 9am game slot on Friday.
The problem with this, is that a lot of the staff will not be arriving till after 9am when the games would begin. So we would not be able to give the early morning GM's what they would need. Now we do have a few options right now on the table such as a few Seminars (GM 101, Q&A with Greg Vaughn, Open Character Building, or a few other seminar ideas.) and possibly having some open "pickup" gaming.
If it would help, I'm local, and my plans are pretty flexible. I could run the Free RPG Day module "Dawn of the Scarlet Sun" (not "Scarlett" :-) as a pickup during that slot. I think I've got everything I would need to do that (except the right Minis for Ezren & Seelah). My wife could also be around to help out with Open Character Building, complete with HeroLab on a computer and Core/APG/UC/UM/Inner Seas hardcover rulebooks.
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Hi John!
Thanks for your input, it's definitely good to know we have people ready to fill in the space to help us out!
To answer the question for the masses, email me at solanoyolopfs@yahoo.com if you wish to GM so I can have you on the Master List. Those who are on the Master List early will get a head start on registration when we go live.. (Currently set for July 1st! But the actual date may vary.)
Now in order to receive a free weekend badge and get the GM goodies, you must be willing to GM at least 3 sessions! If you only want to GM one or two that's totally fine as well, but you would have to buy a badge. :( Since that would defeat the purpose, you should just sign up to do three or more! As we have ten slots, you would still have plenty of time to play and that's totally FTW.
As for Open Character Building, I have to speak with Master Painlord about what we plan to do for it. We have heard that Hero Lab may be coming, but I am not sure at this moment what their game plan is. Regardless, I would like to if possible have one table always open to Character Building and have assistants helping people better understand and teach the game.
Thanks again! We shall be in touch!
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The Coordinators Wishlist
I've been writing like madness I know, but it most likely will be another week before I write again as I will be attending to the beast that is known as "The Master Schedule" as well as my other duties in Guest Relations and Facilities... Which hopefully will involve a trip to our gaming location next week. (Which means pictures!!!)
One of the downsides to coordinating a convention is that while the room is paid for by the convention who hosts us, we are responsible for all costs that may incur to prepare and host the gaming. This means, we're responsible for any of the costs of materials, printing, travel, equipment and necessary supplies for the convention.
Now, Paizo has been a wonderful partner with us and conventions. As they know, to support the convention, supports the business of gaming. They support us through some amazing prize support for our GM's and players who are loyal attenders and supporters of conventions. If you have been to a convention that has been supported by Paizo, you have heard about the legendary items. Or you may have one of the legendary items yourself. ***Remembers her first GM experience. I got my current GM Screen, my Harrow Deck, and the PFS Field Guide from Master Azmyth.***
But there is a good number of things, we are in need of, to have all the supplies we need to keep the game going! If you aren't planning on being a GM but you still want to help out, below is a list of things that we are totally taking open collections for:
Current Coordinator's Wishlist:
Extension Cords
Power Strips
Painters Tape for the floor to spread the power out
Copiers and Printers (2 preferred)
Copy Ink, and Paper of all sizes and colors
Binders and folders (For Pregens and holding essential paperwork)
Any donations of food products that are non-perishable (Instant Coffee counts too!)
First Aid Kit
Writings Utensils of all black and/or blue ink preferred.
Borrowing of Core Pathfinder Books to use for those who are in need of reference
Also at this time, we are opening up for ideas to thank our GM's as well. PacifiCon and Paizo have some wonderful things lined up (That I'm not allowed to spoil yet.) but we are always up for other donations to thank our GM's for giving up their time to travel and run games for the greater gaming community. In the past we've had:
Cakes!
Coins!
And even infamous cookies that everyone talks about.
If you have a Thank You Gift idea you would like to donate, please message our Master Painlord and let him know!
So that's it for me for the rest of the week! We request that if you have a question that's not about convention planning, that you please either PM us or email me at solanoyolopfs@yahoo.com!
Next week, my reports will have more pictures! (I hope XD)
-Lady Ophelia/Venus
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I'm not sure about the first aid kit. The legal weasel in me suggests that if you have a first aid kit and plan to provide that sort of assistance, you're opening yourself up to potential liability if you do it wrong or cannot fully help.
Just me being twitchy I'm sure, but you're in a hotel which will have a first aid station for anything actually serious and, I'm sure, bandaids for the occasional papercut.
*twitch*
I also suggest just the one printer on site with the other in a room/car for backup if the first one fails. You'll have limited space to set everything up and it'll get used in a hurry. Also folks who see lots of printers will ask to use one. It's easier to say no when there's only one...
That said you folks are far more organized than we were at Kubla and I think we did a great job overall. You are going to rock this thing!
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Hey Brent,
I like the schedule so far. My only complaint from looking it over is that the new Season 4 scenarios should be scheduled on both ends of the convention.
For example, if someone is participating in the first Eyes of the Ten campaign, then they've missed both opportunities to play Rise of the Goblin Guild. If the second slot was pushed back a bit, it would give those players a chance to see some more of the new season. And getting to play some of the brand new season is one of the major draws, at least in my opinion, of coming to Pacificon.
Just a thought. Otherwise, it's a pretty awesome schedule.
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Venture-Captain, California—San Francisco Bay Area South & West
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Stars are full of delicious chocolatey goodness.
Does that mean you need dark stars to get dark chocolate?
Some folks got chocolate dice at my FLGS on Free RPG Day, but it was only milk chocolate.
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So my entry on this Monday is a good one we should start chatting about now we're entering the finalization of the schedule: GM's. But first, we are answering a question of good note:
So now that the schedule is being ironed out. Do you set a dead line to have it finished and posted on Warhorn. Or is it more of a post it when you feel it is finished?
We're on a deadline, but it's not a life-death deadline either. Our personal goal is to have the schedule finalized this week, and next week start allowing players and GM's to sign up. Now we're pretty darn close to meeting this mission, but we still have a few more things to do to before we can let it out in the wild..
Now onto the topic at hand: The Game Master..
That being said, let's talk about an important part of the convention: GM's. A GM is known as a "Game Master" but are also known as "Judges" or "Dungeon Masters" as well. Now we use judge and GM's more since DM is copyrighted by Wizards of the Coast, but the title is still the same.
This person, is the one, who makes the games go round. Without them, I would planning a convention filled with empty tables. Or worse, full tables with no one to lead them. Now there are some who really feel that being a GM is not for them. But allow me to give you some good reasons as to why you should not only consider GMing, but why you *should* GM.
1) Your character auto-wins when you GM: Your character would receive full XP, PA and Gold for the tier you run. Plus your character did not have to risk anything or use any items. Mega win right?
2) Because it's just the right thing to do. GMing helps all. Without a GM = no games. Players remember those GM's who come in and always help out where needed.
3) Did we mention, that you can save money by being a GM? For example: At PacifiCon, if you GM three sessions for the weekend, you get a free weekend badge? I mean, judge 3 slots, and they don't have to be consecutive, you can judge one and play the other two and you get in for free! That saves you $60 bucks right there to either use for food, or gas, or my favorite: more gaming supplies. GMing is great for the cash strapped player, who wants to go to conventions, but live on a budget.
4) If you've played the adventure, you get another chance to get more credit by GMing the adventure. We are getting to the point, where there are a lot of players who are maxing out of adventures to play, because they have played them all. But when you GM, you get a chance to keep the credit going! So if your issue is that you are running out credits to earn, GMing is an easy way to stay in the game, while keeping your characters at a formidable level.
5) Did I mention, that it's the right thing to do? Oh I did? Well let me say that again: It's the right thing to do. Being a GM gives you the opportunity to not only give back, but it lets you see the world in a whole new light. When you GM, you get to understand the many methods to the madness, and you get to watch your friends and fellow gamers, have all the fun in the world. Or, end their PC's lives in a burning fire. ( XD )
Now here comes the nay-sayers. Unlike your local game areas, conventions are a little harder to get judges for. And you know what? I have things to say for them too. (Taken from Painlord's Guide To Judge Recruitment)
Excuse #1: "I don't have the time." (of course, this is just a stalling tactic)
Response: "No worries. We can get the module for you, and if you sign up when we open signups right away, you have plenty of time to prepare, ask questions, or if you want, run it early for your local society! No? So is there another issue that is really causing the problem?" (proceed to excuse 2, usually)
Excuse #2) "I'm not good enough./I don't know the rules well enough."
Response a: "I'm asking you because I know you know enough....you're good enough and you're ready."
Response b: "Knowing the exact rules doesn't matter. You know enough to look things up as appropriate and find solutions. Use your players as a resource...and as a check when you are unclear. They will be happy to help...they always are."
Response c: There are resources, and I am always available to chat if you have a question.
Response d:"This forum is great for additional information about the mod you're running. Check it out...the judges there have lots of insight into the mod."
Response e: (Before they play the mod) "PlayerX, I may ask you to run this mod at a future time...be sure to pay attention to what happens." (Immediately after the mod, hand them a copy.) "Here you go...read it and see what just happened. I think you'll run it just fine."
Excuse #3: "I don't have the supplies/mats/pens/minis/grognards."
Response a: "Here borrow mine. Anything else?"
Excuse #4: "I don't want to."
Response a:"I understand that, but you're good enough and smart enough to run a fantastic mod. Sadly, if you won't contribute back to the community, we will have to reduce our schedule which means you may not be able to get into a game you are looking forward to. I hope you'll want to give back and want to be part of our community.
Game Masters are an integral part of our society. And they make conventions even possible. So if you have been on the fence. You should consider being a GM for PacifiCon. If you are interested, feel free to email me at solanoyolopfs@yahoo.com or PM me also!