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I was talking with some buddies about what our certain favorite movie,show,game and comic characters would be in pathfinder. Eventually we got to the part about Daleks and decided it owuld be awesome to have Dalek Monsters in a campaign.
Anyone think they can crunch some stats and help brainstorm here? personally I think the Daleks would be excellent for any campaign if tooled well enough for a fantasy setting (THinking they might be constructs powered by a tiny creature stuffed into it like a cythnigot or a cacodaemon)
lets get to work.
A Daemon inside a Construct with the Armor Modification.
They'd be an epic-level encounter. Effectively they are a construct, with a living creature inside. You have to destroy the construct first, then the creature inside it to win.
The construct itself, well daleks have a force field and extremely strong plating. The force field would be either a wall of force effect that moves with the dalek, or a massive deflection bonus to AC. I would say a +20 deflection bonus vs ranged attacks and rays, myself.
The plating would be adamantine, about an inch thick and then the machine beneath would have a fair number of hit points, and the whole would be self-repairing (fast healing 1). Electrical attacks would just feed the machine energy (repair damage on a one-for-one point ratio).
Weapon-wise the dalek has the equivelant of a wand of disintegrate or a 20d6 ray of electricity, and it's sucker-arm - the latter can make grapple attacks (with greater grapple), on a pin they suffocate the target with no option to hold their breath.
The whole dalek is hermetically sealed, so it is immune to gas-based attacks and to cold based attacks thanks to internal environmental control. It will have massive resistance to fire, acid and sonic damage. They have a fly speed and perfect manoeuvrability.
Weaknesses...well, the force field does not seem to effect melee attacks, and it's probably possible to sunder the eye-stalk, weapon and manipulation arms. Touch AC will not be high if you get close enough, although they can probably charge their shell to damage attackers that close.
Daleks have been likened to miniature armoured fighting vehicles. They are lawful evil in the extreme, and consider other creatures merely as pawns to be used and discarded. They are phenomenally intelligent, and their only weakness is their automatic assumption of their own superiority, and their lack of manipulatory ability.
I am the Super-Sayan Fire Giant, and I approve of this thread.
They'd be an epic-level encounter. Effectively they are a construct, with a living creature inside. You have to destroy the construct first, then the creature inside it to win.
Epic level? You've got to be kidding me. Seriously there's no need for them to be any higher than CR 10 or so and maybe not even that.
They'd be an epic-level encounter. Effectively they are a construct, with a living creature inside. You have to destroy the construct first, then the creature inside it to win.Epic level? You've got to be kidding me. Seriously there's no need for them to be any higher than CR 10 or so and maybe not even that.
I will point out that one dalek was considered sufficient to wipe out the whole of Salt Lake City, or destroy the cyberarmy (or as the daleks called it, 'pest control'). That's a very high level threat there even when you factor in dalek arrogance.
What do you think, say, a bebilith could do to Salt Lake City? Or a young red dragon? Sure Daleks are powerful, but epic level? No, not really.
A bebelith or young red dragon would be stopped dead by an RPG. A dalek would shrug it off. The difference is not in the offensive capacity, but the defences.
The Dalek forces do not have to be epic power level. Their offensive capabilities are decent but the reason they are feared is because of the defense. Great defense allows them the ability to outlast any opponent.
They are very weak to mind influencing abilities however. The Doctor consistently hits whole squads of them with calm emotions and talks his way out. This weakness should give them a much lower CR than their defense would have you believe.
I say give them the offensive capabilities of something around CR 10, the physical defenses of something like the tarasque, and a glaring weakness in the mind effecting area. Should about do it. I would build it but I'm a new Doctor fan and would not do it justice in the least.
The Dalek forces do not have to be epic power level. Their offensive capabilities are decent but the reason they are feared is because of the defense. Great defense allows them the ability to outlast any opponent.
They have effective offence, and their defences make it deadly, though I see your point. They'd still be more than a CR10, though, by a long way.
They are very weak to mind influencing abilities however. The Doctor consistently hits whole squads of them with calm emotions and talks his way out. This weakness should give them a much lower CR than their defense would have you believe.
I am not so sure about this. The Doctor does not use a calm emotions power, he just uses his intellect. The daleks are hampered by their automatic assumption that they are superior - it never occurs to them that he is out-thinking them. Given their monomaniacal and implacable nature, I would give them very strong will.
Besides, the Doctor is epic level, no two ways about it.
I say give them the offensive capabilities of something around CR 10, the physical defenses of something like the tarasque, and a glaring weakness in the mind effecting area. Should about do it. I would build it but I'm a new Doctor fan and would not do it justice in the least.
Been watching from an early age, in the Patrick Traughton years!
LovesTha has the right of it, the daleks, when first encountered, are quite weak relatively speaking - say CR4-5. The casing was tough but you could immobilise them very easily and simply take out the occupant.
Later they became a more serious threat, although they still had problems with a flight of steps, CR8. They made much use of slaves at this point.
Then they started flying and deploying 'special weapons' daleks too. CR10-12
Lastly they added the forcefield, and this is when they became truly unstoppable. CR15+.
Da-Leks Do Not Climb Staiirs! Da-Leks Le-Vel The Whole Buil-Ding!
EX-TER-MI-NAATE!!
And My Sight Is No Lon-Ger Im-Paired!
EX-TER-MI-NAATE! EX-TER-MI-NAATE!!!
And then there are the colorful castebased Daleks created in Victory of the Daleks, who are said to be even more powerful then the Time War daleks, so they would be epic, I think.
The Cult of Scaro would probably be Advanced (or at least Sec would be) with aditional HD and abilities, including the Emergency Time Shift.
A bebelith or young red dragon would be stopped dead by an RPG. A dalek would shrug it off. The difference is not in the offensive capacity, but the defences.
So you think an RPG can do over 100 hp of damage with a single shot? That's absurd. Not to mention that I don't think all Daleks would even be able to resist an RPG in the first place, though some of the more powerful versions could.
Well, I'll throw in my two cents worth. The eye-piece has always been a weakness ("My vision is impaired! I cannot see!")
The sensors provide all around vision, so they cannot be flanked, but they CAN be attacked from the rear. Its happened too many times.
They have heavy armor sure, admantine most likely, but I've seen plenty of daleks be blown up over the years with bombs, so have an alchemist handy. ("Armor piercing bullets. Punch a hole through a dalek...")
They're vulnerable to their own weaponry.
Just a few thoughts.
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The Doctor only needs to be about level 5 or so. The Daleks have a bigger reputation than their actual threat as displayed on the show.
Forget about their armor at first. Start with the dalek as a small-sized octopus-like aberration. Use the Advanced Race Guide to build them.
Then create their armor as an adamantium-plated vehicle.
Forget about their armor at first. Start with the dalek as a small-sized octopus-like aberration. Use the Advanced Race Guide to build them.
Then create their armor as an adamantium-plated vehicle.
Perhaps something similar to a small-sized Decapus could be a start.
Actually, if memory serves, in one thing (don't remember whether an episode, special, spin-off, or whatever), an un-armoured dalek was able to kill a soldier with its grabby, icky tentacles of grossness, showing they are more then a match for an adult human.
A bebelith or young red dragon would be stopped dead by an RPG. A dalek would shrug it off. The difference is not in the offensive capacity, but the defences.So you think an RPG can do over 100 hp of damage with a single shot? That's absurd. Not to mention that I don't think all Daleks would even be able to resist an RPG in the first place, though some of the more powerful versions could.
Again, it depends on the version of dalek.
Early versions you can take out with heavy guns. I'm talking about the later, current versions of the dalek with flight and forcefields. An RPG round simply will not get close enough to damage the dalek. On the other hand, a round designed to take out a tank is going to do a lot of damage to a large creature.
Imagine shooting an RPG at an elephant. Yes, exactly.
Not only is the RPG explosive, but it directs a jet of plasma directly ahead of it when it detonates (that's how it takes out armoured vehicles). On a living creature, aside from the concussive force of the blast and the shrapnel damage, the jet will vaporise flesh to some depth. It may not kill a bebelith or dragon, but it will surely hurt it.
So potentially, yes, an RPG round could do up to 100 damage on a confirmed critical hit. A dragon taking one between the eyes or into the heart would definitely have a bad day.
Now consider the cyberman/dalek conflict: The cybermen with their energy weapons, backed up by humans with assault rifles and RPGs, failed to score a single kill on any dalek. The daleks wiped out hundreds of cybermen.
For the race inside the armour we'd have to go with stats something around:
STR: 2
DEX: 2
CON: 2
INT: 13
WIS: 7
CHR: 13 (Not charming, just very strong willed. With a note that the strength of will means they will always follow their orders)
I would rate their intelligence as much higher, Daleks are supposed to be of near-genius intellect, if somewhat unoriginal. Even the least of them would have an intelligence of 17-18. I think willpower is more a function of wisdom, so I would swap wisdom and charisma. Daleks are not interested in social interactions - they give and receive orders, and kill anything that gets in their way.
As pointed out, Daleks without their casing can attack and kill from stealth, and they have claws they can attack with. That said, they have difficulty surviving outside their shells for long.
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Each time The Doctor encountered the Daleks, he found they had upgraded their technology.
So you could conceivably have daleks with lower and higher CRs.
I would give the armor-less dalek Grab or Improved Grab as a racial ability. It seemed they would kill by choking the victim to death.
Doctor (after dalek escaped from damaged armor): Spread out and look for the dalek!
Soldier: How will we know what it looks like?
Doctor: It will try to kill you.
There are robot rules for forcefields and lasers and stuff in the inner sea bestiary, some of which could be relevant to the armored vehicle, since it's a technological construct.
The force field would translate best as a deflection bonus. The daleknium armor would then have a DR of 15/Epic.
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I don't know if this can work but shouldn't daleks have a teleport ability that can heal them because of their emergency temporal shift? I'm thinking a once per week spell-like ability similar to teleport, but only effects the dalek and has it show up 1 minute later, fully healed, as if it had traveled through time.
There's a build out there that's a halfling wizard in an adantine box. Sounds like Dalek v1.0
I don't know if this can work but shouldn't daleks have a teleport ability that can heal them because of their emergency temporal shift? I'm thinking a once per week spell-like ability similar to teleport, but only effects the dalek and has it show up 1 minute later, fully healed, as if it had traveled through time.
Just make it plane shift and call it a day. Time travel is exceedingly difficult to pull off well in RpG's as the DM can't predict the pc's actions.
Old Dr Who:
Dalek was a joke monster = Could not climb stairs, did not have imagination, willpower, was a organic robot. What made them dangerous was three things: 1) numbers "mass produced" 2) No morality "If they did not have a purpose for you... you were dead" 3) Disintegrate ray "Disintegrate spell at 1st level with unlimited uses"
1st level Monster: Fighter
Cut movement speed down to : 10 feet + no stares "Dr + Companions usually outran them unless cornered"
Have Plate Armor: There shell
At 1st level = Have Disintegrate spell, 50 charges.
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New Dr Who: Same as old Dr Who, except add to there armor
1) Fly... at will
2) Wall of Force... 3 time per day (Not something they all-way use)
3) Phase Shift... 2 time per day (Last ditch run away, or they just drop in).
Also, the new Dalek i have noticed us more machines. So they use there space ships, Computer panels, and other Devices. This would give them access to any other high teck, like Gateways, static effect, time stop, reverse gravity, etc... But then again, any player with access to the control panel, can then use these effect against the Dalek's.
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The Creature inside the shell, could be different levels of fighter from experience. This would effect there chance to hit rate, using disintegrate. Low level Dalek would miss more often, then high level dalek who have been around for a long time.
Anyway my 2 cents worth.
PS. If you give any 1st level character a Wand of Disintegrate, with 50 charges.
They will be deadly,
The Dalek were meant to be monster, never Player characters.
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How much do you want to bed "I want to rip its arm off and use the disintegrate ray" will
Be a regular occurrence.
Agreed. Never give a monster something you don't want the PCs to get their hands on.
The Daleks were able to fight the Time Lords as equals and AFAIK pretty much won, if you throw them into Pathfinder the PCs would be mulched.
The Daleks were able to fight the Time Lords as equals and AFAIK pretty much won, if you throw them into Pathfinder the PCs would be mulched.
In a full scale war, yes. But humans have fought daleks before and won limited victories.
Not only is the RPG explosive, but it directs a jet of plasma directly ahead of it when it detonates (that's how it takes out armoured vehicles). On a living creature, aside from the concussive force of the blast and the shrapnel damage, the jet will vaporise flesh to some depth. It may not kill a bebelith or dragon, but it will surely hurt it.
You forget that both those creatures have more defenses than an elephant. Red dragons would be immune to fire damage, so no searing plasma. And a Bebelith has DR10/good, so unless its a holy rpg, no shrapnel. Picking a faster maturing dragon like Brass gives both DR and Immune: fire for the same CR 10. Plus due to the way armor is abstracted, the natural armor of either might just absorb the hit.
Incidently, the Beblith's Dismantle Armor ability would be great against Daleks.
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First, Brambleman, one, who says that fire and holy are the only things that can melt flesh. Maybe a jet of force damage could do a similar effect and two why are you still talking about red dragons vs rpg's?
Second, daleks seem to use and electrical death effect dc 90 to kill people and that can disentigrate a wall so you need a customized spell for exterminate and if you want to eliminate PC's from using the ray then make it be similar to alchemical items that only respond to a dalek trying to use it. Then only dalek pc's could use it and if you allow PCs to be Daleks then...FAIL.
The 4th doctor ( tom baker ), did pull of a Dalek, arm once, and got off 2 or 3 shoots before discarding it. Then again this was the early 80's :)
Pathfinder Disintegrate spell, has the desired effect & name. :)
I picture beholder society and behavior to be exactly like the daleks.