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Silver Crusade

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That’s awesome Terminal!


Hi all, sometimes-lurker of this thread here. :) Random question of the day:

Given a fantasy / scifi race where all members are of one sex or the other, do trans characters make and more or less sense than trans humans?

My understanding of transsexuality is extremely limited, so I'm curious how if at all it would apply to a race with only one set of private bits. Thanks!


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Tequila Sunrise wrote:

Hi all, sometimes-lurker of this thread here. :) Random question of the day:

Given a fantasy / scifi race where all members are of one sex or the other, do trans characters make and more or less sense than trans humans?

My understanding of transsexuality is extremely limited, so I'm curious how if at all it would apply to a race with only one set of private bits. Thanks!

That's interesting from a theoretical stand point, as it steps into sci-fi essentially.

It would probably be different for different species, though single gender species that somehow are strictly male or female never made much sense to me anyway.

Also for species that have no gender at all I don't know where being transgender fits into that.


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Hmm... It's been quiet. Not used to seeing this thread stay quiet for more than a day or two. Who wants hugs? I got those in spades. Though they'll be bony.

Silver Crusade

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Bah! I’m sorry! I keep checking this thread in the morning during my snooze alarm and then spend the rest of the day thinking I posted, THE MORNING LIED TO ME!

*channels positive feelings and offers hugs to anyone and everyone that wants or needs some*


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Tequila Sunrise wrote:

Hi all, sometimes-lurker of this thread here. :) Random question of the day:

Given a fantasy / scifi race where all members are of one sex or the other, do trans characters make and more or less sense than trans humans?

My understanding of transsexuality is extremely limited, so I'm curious how if at all it would apply to a race with only one set of private bits. Thanks!

As one of our resident trans folks:

If we're looking at a race that's got nothing but buff dudes in loincloths who reproduce by budding and they look at those humans across the way and go, "that race has girls! I want to be a girl," I mean, no reason why they couldn't switch up the pronouns and learn some makeup styling tips.

Now, how things like the Serum of Sex Shift would work on them is another question entirely, but there are plenty of trans folk who are happy with their genitals the way they are.


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VixieMoondew wrote:
Tequila Sunrise wrote:

Hi all, sometimes-lurker of this thread here. :) Random question of the day:

Given a fantasy / scifi race where all members are of one sex or the other, do trans characters make and more or less sense than trans humans?

My understanding of transsexuality is extremely limited, so I'm curious how if at all it would apply to a race with only one set of private bits. Thanks!

As one of our resident trans folks:

If we're looking at a race that's got nothing but buff dudes in loincloths who reproduce by budding and they look at those humans across the way and go, "that race has girls! I want to be a girl," I mean, no reason why they couldn't switch up the pronouns and learn some makeup styling tips.

Now, how things like the Serum of Sex Shift would work on them is another question entirely, but there are plenty of trans folk who are happy with their genitals the way they are.

I just don't see it. There's biology going on in real-life trans people. If that race has no gender, there's nothing there to connect to. Even beyond genitals, hormone treatments wouldn't work, since the single-sex race wouldn't have male and female hormones as such or the receptors to make use of them.

Wouldn't it be not as much like trans as wanting to be the different species?

Or to shift the example slightly: Starfinder has Shirren who have 3 genders. Does it make sense for human characters in that setting to be trans host? Would it have made sense before humans met the Shirren?

None of that means that some of the single-sex race might use different pronouns while speaking human languages - they obviously wouldn't have gendered pronouns in their own. Or some might take up human styles that are more butch or femme, but that in and of itself isn't really the same as being trans.

Silver Crusade

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When someone asks a question that amounts to "what is this trans experience like/not like?" actual trans people are qualified to answer that.

Conversely, someone who is not trans doesn't really get to define what is and is not trans, certainly not in fantasy, let alone the real world.

Biology plays a part, but it's a matter of being moreso. Trans people are not automatons.


Rysky wrote:

When someone asks a question that amounts to "what is this trans experience like/not like?" actual trans people are qualified to answer that.

Conversely, someone who is not trans doesn't really get to define what is and is not trans, certainly not in fantasy, let alone the real world.

Fair enough. I should have thrown some disclaimers in there.

But I really don't see how that extrapolation to trans experience makes sense. And it's not like actual trans people have any more experience transitioning from the single gender of fantasy race without gender to either human-style male or female than anyone else does.

Partly I wouldn't expect an actual ungendered race to identify as either of our genders - with the exception of various mythological races that reflect our own gender hangups - harpies and hags and the like. (Not coming up with male equivalents easily? Satyrs, maybe?)


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To go to the Shirren example specifically: consider nonbinary folks. Agender folks, demigender folks, genderfluid folks, intersex folks, two spirits, eunuchs, etc. The human experience encompasses many more genders than "male or female," some reflected in textbook genital expression, some not.

Consider also, for the Shirren example: we already have cases of surrogate mothers. It's reflected in our own, present scientific capabilities.

So if a Tauros said "I identify as a female Tauros," I mean... not gonna say there's anything wrong with that.

(If that Tauros wants to identify as a Miltank, that's murkier waters, because Pokémon species and breeding compatibilities, etc. are weird.)


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Hi, everyone!

I have good news about Tekko! I have a home in a different department, now. I'm now a volunteer in the manga library!

Silver Crusade

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Yay!


VixieMoondew wrote:

To go to the Shirren example specifically: consider nonbinary folks. Agender folks, demigender folks, genderfluid folks, intersex folks, two spirits, eunuchs, etc. The human experience encompasses many more genders than "male or female," some reflected in textbook genital expression, some not.

Consider also, for the Shirren example: we already have cases of surrogate mothers. It's reflected in our own, present scientific capabilities.

So if a Tauros said "I identify as a female Tauros," I mean... not gonna say there's anything wrong with that.

(If that Tauros wants to identify as a Miltank, that's murkier waters, because Pokémon species and breeding compatibilities, etc. are weird.)

took the words right out of my mouth.


VixieMoondew wrote:
Tequila Sunrise wrote:

Hi all, sometimes-lurker of this thread here. :) Random question of the day:

Given a fantasy / scifi race where all members are of one sex or the other, do trans characters make and more or less sense than trans humans?

My understanding of transsexuality is extremely limited, so I'm curious how if at all it would apply to a race with only one set of private bits. Thanks!

As one of our resident trans folks:

If we're looking at a race that's got nothing but buff dudes in loincloths who reproduce by budding and they look at those humans across the way and go, "that race has girls! I want to be a girl," I mean, no reason why they couldn't switch up the pronouns and learn some makeup styling tips.

Now, how things like the Serum of Sex Shift would work on them is another question entirely, but there are plenty of trans folk who are happy with their genitals the way they are.

Interesting, I had thought all trans people were uncomfortable with their given genitals.


3 people marked this as a favorite.
Tequila Sunrise wrote:
VixieMoondew wrote:
Tequila Sunrise wrote:

Hi all, sometimes-lurker of this thread here. :) Random question of the day:

Given a fantasy / scifi race where all members are of one sex or the other, do trans characters make and more or less sense than trans humans?

My understanding of transsexuality is extremely limited, so I'm curious how if at all it would apply to a race with only one set of private bits. Thanks!

As one of our resident trans folks:

If we're looking at a race that's got nothing but buff dudes in loincloths who reproduce by budding and they look at those humans across the way and go, "that race has girls! I want to be a girl," I mean, no reason why they couldn't switch up the pronouns and learn some makeup styling tips.

Now, how things like the Serum of Sex Shift would work on them is another question entirely, but there are plenty of trans folk who are happy with their genitals the way they are.

Interesting, I had thought all trans people were uncomfortable with their given genitals.

Dont mean to jump you here but anytime you thinking 'all' trans people x ( or any group really) it is generally wrong.


Fair enough.

In my head, I had based my definition of trans on the assumption of being uncomfortable with one's born genitals. So, thinking out loud here...

What's the difference between transgender and transvestite? I had set up the difference in my head as 'likes to dress as other gender' and 'wants to physically be other gender.' But if the latter isn't always true, is there any hard qualitative difference? Or is this a spectrum situation?

Thanks for the help; as I mentioned, my understanding is very limited.


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Tequila Sunrise wrote:

Fair enough.

In my head, I had based my definition of trans on the assumption of being uncomfortable with one's born genitals. So, thinking out loud here...

What's the difference between transgender and transvestite? I had set up the difference in my head as 'likes to dress as other gender' and 'wants to physically be other gender.' But if the latter isn't always true, is there any hard qualitative difference? Or is this a spectrum situation?

Thanks for the help; as I mentioned, my understanding is very limited.

For me at least the way I think about it is a transvestite sometimes feels like dressing as the other gender but are comfortable as the gender they are born with.

Transgendered person feel wrong with the gender they are born with...but how far they go with transitioning is a spectrum. Personally I would like to go all the way...but I am limited by living situation and money...

I am sorry if my assessment of transvestites is wrong...I am basing it on things have heard in the past. Which I recognize maybe wrong.


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One of things is I think a lot of the research and studies done on transgendered people have been skewed by the researchers point of view and the transgendered person giving the answers that they think will get them what they want...

For instance I read somewhere that a trans person felt they had to be 'straight' for a therapist to sign off on transitional procedure. As in let's again take myself as a example I am attracted to women even as a transgender women with some minor attraction to guys. Years ago if I was seeing a therapist I would have to say I am attracted to guys to get the treatments and surgery because that is what the therapist would expect.

So studies were way off on the sexual orientation of trans people.

Now we better understand that gender and sexual orientation are not as tied together as once thought but it makes me wonder what other similar things are out there,


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Hello everyone. I know that I've been out for a while. I don't really come to the boards much anymore because I don't currently play Pathfinder or Starfinder. I will need to stay up on things soon.

My life has been very hectic. I suffer from extreme panic attacks. My doctors have been working with me to deal with them. The therapy makes me feel worse. I don't like it at all. I'm going through this before I go through therapy to deal with being trans. I have no idea what that's going to be like so I want to make sure I have tools in place to deal with the emotions that will come up very strongly.

I've been reading a book called You and Your Gender Identity: A Guide to Discovery. It's a workbook written by a therapist who works as a gender therapist. It's not a light read or work at all. It makes you really look at yourself and ask a lot of questions. I'm having a transmale friend help me through this.

I'm currently in an LGBT group at the VA and it's sorta helping. Last week I went to my panic attack therapy appointment mostly as myself. It was the first time I went into the VA like that. I had a friend come with me for moral support. He is a great friend and I'm glad that he's in my life. It's nice having cis allies who are just there accepting you for you and not interfering with things unless it's asked for.

Anyway, after that we went to a friend's place so that I could finish getting changed so that I could go out to lunch with someone I had never met who was in the area to see her doctor. We all went out to Red Robin for lunch and I was treated as just a normal customer by the staff. My online friend brought a friend and they were both great. At no point did they make me feel uncomfortable. I was misgendered once, but she didn't apologize. She simply changed her words and moved on. Her actions were the apology. She didn't make it about herself and that's what I need to feel accepted and loved.

On a slightly different note, I am working on converting some of the material I've bought over the years from Pathfinder to 13th Age. I know that I can do it legally, but I asked one of the designers if he would mind if I did it and posted the conversions. He said that he would rather pay me if he likes it. So I accidentally got a chance to start getting some of my stuff published and I might be able to make a few coins on the side. I submitted my first one and now I'm just waiting to see if he likes it. Poor guy and his wife have been sick or injured several times since I submitted it so I'm just trying to be patient (which isn't always my strongest trait). I know that they are both very busy outside of this one part of their lives.

Anyway, I just wanted to pop in and say hello.


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Tequila Sunrise wrote:

Fair enough.

In my head, I had based my definition of trans on the assumption of being uncomfortable with one's born genitals. So, thinking out loud here...

What's the difference between transgender and transvestite? I had set up the difference in my head as 'likes to dress as other gender' and 'wants to physically be other gender.' But if the latter isn't always true, is there any hard qualitative difference? Or is this a spectrum situation?

Thanks for the help; as I mentioned, my understanding is very limited.

Transgender is an umbrella term that simply means that you don't identify as the gender you were assigned at birth. It's a very broad umbrella, but that's really all it means.

Cis people identify as the gender they were assigned at birth. That's the vast majority of people in the world.

Transvestites commonly wear clothing that is not the social norm for their gender. It's basically a cross-dresser. It's falling out of vogue because it's really not a good term. It assumes a binary world of gender. Instead of transvestite we are moving into gender-non-conforming or non-binary because those terms cover more ground.

Transvestites are often seen as fetishists and even though there are some men (and it's only applied to men because we have a patriarchal world) who do this for sexual pleasure, not all do and most people seem to associate the term with the act of sex.

I hope that helps.


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In other words, a transvestite is usually a guy who saw a dress and said, “yeah, that’d be comfy, but I’m still a guy. I’m just a guy in a dress.”

Eddie Izzard is a great example.

“They’re not women’s clothes; I bought them, they’re my clothes!”


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Also!!! Great to see you around again Cindy! I’m sorry to hear therapy seems to be rough for you lately, but I’m glad to hear about the rest!!


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VixieMoondew wrote:

In other words, a transvestite is usually a guy who saw a dress and said, “yeah, that’d be comfy, but I’m still a guy. I’m just a guy in a dress.”

Eddie Izzard is a great example.

“They’re not women’s clothes; I bought them, they’re my clothes!”

I found out recently that Izzard identifies as trans and came out 30 years ago. Oddly, I'm only hearing about it in the last few months. I don't know which pronouns they prefer, but it seems like "he/him". The quote is still true though. They are Izzard's, not "his or her" clothing.

Silver Crusade

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Great to see you again Cindy ^w^

Silver Crusade

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Hope everyone is having a great weekend.

*channels positive feelings and offers hugs to anyone and everyone that wants or needs some*

Silver Crusade

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Wednesday, eggroll day!

*channels positive feelings and offers hugs to anyone and everyone that wants or needs some*

*offers extra for those who don't have convenient access to yummy food truck eggrolls*


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So I might maybe have instigated an all-kitsune Confirmation.

No one can say I'm not extremely on-brand!

Silver Crusade

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VixieMoondew wrote:

So I might maybe have instigated an all-kitsune Confirmation.

No one can say I'm not extremely on-brand!

Nice!

Contributor

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Tequila Sunrise wrote:


Interesting, I had thought all trans people were uncomfortable with their given genitals.

While the underlying biology isn't subject to social influence, that multi-factorial biological underpinning of a given person's internal gender identity is a spectrum, rather than a binary male or female. Thus someone may identify as trans but not have enough underlying dysphoria, or not have dysphoria directed to their genitalia as opposed to other aspects of their body, such that they choose to go down the route of altering them by any means.


Cindy Robertson wrote:

Hello everyone. I know that I've been out for a while. I don't really come to the boards much anymore because I don't currently play Pathfinder or Starfinder. I will need to stay up on things soon.

My life has been very hectic. I suffer from extreme panic attacks. My doctors have been working with me to deal with them. The therapy makes me feel worse. I don't like it at all. I'm going through this before I go through therapy to deal with being trans. I have no idea what that's going to be like so I want to make sure I have tools in place to deal with the emotions that will come up very strongly.

I've been reading a book called You and Your Gender Identity: A Guide to Discovery. It's a workbook written by a therapist who works as a gender therapist. It's not a light read or work at all. It makes you really look at yourself and ask a lot of questions. I'm having a transmale friend help me through this.

I'm currently in an LGBT group at the VA and it's sorta helping. Last week I went to my panic attack therapy appointment mostly as myself. It was the first time I went into the VA like that. I had a friend come with me for moral support. He is a great friend and I'm glad that he's in my life. It's nice having cis allies who are just there accepting you for you and not interfering with things unless it's asked for.

Anyway, after that we went to a friend's place so that I could finish getting changed so that I could go out to lunch with someone I had never met who was in the area to see her doctor. We all went out to Red Robin for lunch and I was treated as just a normal customer by the staff. My online friend brought a friend and they were both great. At no point did they make me feel uncomfortable. I was misgendered once, but she didn't apologize. She simply changed her words and moved on. Her actions were the apology. She didn't make it about herself and that's what I need to feel accepted and loved.

On a slightly different note, I am working on converting some of the material I've bought over the...

it is so very good to see you again. You have been missed.


Todd Stewart wrote:
Tequila Sunrise wrote:


Interesting, I had thought all trans people were uncomfortable with their given genitals.
While the underlying biology isn't subject to social influence, that multi-factorial biological underpinning of a given person's internal gender identity is a spectrum, rather than a binary male or female. Thus someone may identify as trans but not have enough underlying dysphoria, or not have dysphoria directed to their genitalia as opposed to other aspects of their body, such that they choose to go down the route of altering them by any means.

Fascinating.


Cindy Robertson wrote:
Tequila Sunrise wrote:

Fair enough.

In my head, I had based my definition of trans on the assumption of being uncomfortable with one's born genitals. So, thinking out loud here...

What's the difference between transgender and transvestite? I had set up the difference in my head as 'likes to dress as other gender' and 'wants to physically be other gender.' But if the latter isn't always true, is there any hard qualitative difference? Or is this a spectrum situation?

Thanks for the help; as I mentioned, my understanding is very limited.

Transgender is an umbrella term that simply means that you don't identify as the gender you were assigned at birth. It's a very broad umbrella, but that's really all it means.

Cis people identify as the gender they were assigned at birth. That's the vast majority of people in the world.

Transvestites commonly wear clothing that is not the social norm for their gender. It's basically a cross-dresser. It's falling out of vogue because it's really not a good term. It assumes a binary world of gender. Instead of transvestite we are moving into gender-non-conforming or non-binary because those terms cover more ground.

Transvestites are often seen as fetishists and even though there are some men (and it's only applied to men because we have a patriarchal world) who do this for sexual pleasure, not all do and most people seem to associate the term with the act of sex.

I hope that helps.

Terms grow, change, enter and leave vogue. It really is amazing to see, but it can make some conversations dicey. I hope that when it happens to me I end up sounding old fashioned and maybe out of touch, not ignorant.

Silver Crusade

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Hope everyone is having a good weekend ^w^

*channels positive feelings and offers hugs to anyone and everyone that wants or needs some*

Silver Crusade

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*shoves Monday over*

*channels positive feelings and offers hugs to anyone and everyone that wants or needs some*

Silver Crusade

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*shoves Second Monday over*

Hope everyone has a great day ^w^

*channels positive feelings and offers hugs to anyone and everyone that wants or needs some*


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Found out that my being trans is becoming known throughout the family. Apparently, my grandfather-in-law asked my aunt-in-law, "Is Foxy......... weird?"

To which my aunt-in-law had to explain that, yes, I'm "weird," but a different type of "weird" than they're used to, and I go by Vixie now.

And of course we've got a big Easter get-together...

No point going butch, I guess!

Silver Crusade

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Ye, wear the pretty sun dresses!


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VixieMoondew wrote:

Found out that my being trans is becoming known throughout the family. Apparently, my grandfather-in-law asked my aunt-in-law, "Is Foxy......... weird?"

To which my aunt-in-law had to explain that, yes, I'm "weird," but a different type of "weird" than they're used to, and I go by Vixie now.

And of course we've got a big Easter get-together...

No point going butch, I guess!

Hope everything works out okay.


4 people marked this as a favorite.
VixieMoondew wrote:

Found out that my being trans is becoming known throughout the family. Apparently, my grandfather-in-law asked my aunt-in-law, "Is Foxy......... weird?"

To which my aunt-in-law had to explain that, yes, I'm "weird," but a different type of "weird" than they're used to, and I go by Vixie now.

And of course we've got a big Easter get-together...

No point going butch, I guess!

Foxy is weird. Vixie seems normal to me.

Silver Crusade

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Bleugh, weird dream. Anyway, hope everyone had a good day ^w^

*channels positive feelings and offers hugs to anyone and everyone that wants or needs some*

Silver Crusade

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Even if you’re not coherent enough today to read this, I hope everyone has a great and safe Saturday ^w^

*channels positive feelings and offers hugs to anyone and everyone that wants or needs some*


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Ok, Rysky needs some hugs.

Just from the posts in this thread I can see that their store must be depleted.
Good Saturday to ya, Rysky, and several big hugs

Silver Crusade

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CrystalSeas wrote:

Ok, Rysky needs some hugs.

Just from the posts in this thread I can see that their store must be depleted.
Good Saturday to ya, Rysky, and several big hugs

Thankies, CrystalSeas ^w^

*hugs*

Silver Crusade

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CrystalSeas wrote:

Ok, Rysky needs some hugs.

Just from the posts in this thread I can see that their store must be depleted.
Good Saturday to ya, Rysky, and several big hugs

*hugs OtherMe* Mine! Get your own!

Silver Crusade

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Rysky Clone #506 wrote:
CrystalSeas wrote:

Ok, Rysky needs some hugs.

Just from the posts in this thread I can see that their store must be depleted.
Good Saturday to ya, Rysky, and several big hugs

*hugs OtherMe* Mine! Get your own!

*hugs both of you*


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I hope everyone is having a restful enlightening time. Please enjoy chocolate for me the next couple of weeks*.

*:
I had a Navyspec crown that was 28 years old removed on Friday and am currently sporting a temporary tooth that is not friendly to chewing or a lot of force. Better safe than sorry. The last time the crown was replaced, the temptooth collapsed -- have zero desire to repeat that experience...

Silver Crusade

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Oof, that does sound gnarly. I’ll leav chocolate out for e’erbody else then too.

*channels positive feelings and offers hugs (and chocolate) to anyone and everyone that wants or needs some*

Silver Crusade

Pathfinder Adventure Path, Campaign Setting, Companion, Modules, Roleplaying Game, Starfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Roleplaying Game, Starfinder Society Roleplaying Guild, Tales Subscriber; Pathfinder Comics Subscriber

Holy crap it's Wednesday, that one snuck up on me.

*channels positive feelings and offers hugs to anyone and everyone that wants or needs some*

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