I'm working on a Dragon Disciple and the first two levels will be a melee class - he will either be a Human Paladin 2 or a Half-Orc Barbarian 2 before continuing on into Sorcerer (Draconic) and Dragon Disciple. The character will be wielding a Greatsword or Falchion and will be pursuing both the Eldritch Heritage feat line (Orc) and taking Arcane Armor Training/Mastery. His concept is to serve as the group's blaster and secondary front-line fighter as needed.
So basically what I'm trying to decide between is:
Human Paladin 2
1 Smite/day (+3 attack, +3 AC and +2 damage)
+3 to all saving throws
Detect Evil at will
Lay on Hands (1d6 healing) 4/day
+1 Feat at 1st level
+1 skill rank/level
Half-Orc Barbarian 2
Rage 8 rounds/day
Fast Movement
Uncanny Dodge
1 Rage power (likely Superstition or Lesser Beast Totem)
Darkvision 60'
+1 to all saving throws (Sacred Tattoo)
+2 Intimidate
At the moment I'm leaning towards the Human Paladin, but I'd be interested in knowing the thoughts of any who have played both or a similar character to what I'm building...
I don't think you can take greater mercy until 3rd level. If you were going with the Orc bloodline, I suggest the barbarian for flavor.
I don't think you can take greater mercy until 3rd level. If you were going with the Orc bloodline, I suggest the barbarian for flavor.
You are correct.
Flavor seems to be the best argument for Half-Orc barbarian at this point, I was hoping for a statistical one as well. Darkvision is a powerful tool, but my past experience has been with Paladins rather than Barbarians. I'll eventually be wearing heavy armor, so the Fast Movement is likely not to be of use either.
For flavor purposes, whatever statistical choices I make, I can roleplay the benefits from the orcish bloodline Eldritch Heritage feats as merely an extention of the potency of the gold dragon he is descended from.
Yeah I would probably go with Barbarian as well. As much as I love Paladins, the barb would probably work better with the Dragon Disciple.
You've got two separate issues going on, race and class, but honestly out of the two you've listed I'd go with the paladin just because half-orc barbarians are so over done.
Statistically, barbarian's very powerful for a dip, you'll get a lot of milage out of the fast movement, even as a caster. Also, the strength bonus from rage can help make up for the poor physical attributes you'll be starting with. Half-orc also has some interesting "weapon X becomes a martial weapon" options.
I should probably post the entire build - but the character will be a 25 point buy, and his initial attributes will be STR-18, DEX-12, CON-14, INT-10, WIS-8, CHA-16 regardless of which race I choose. As the character levels up, the strength bonuses he qualifies for will eventually give him a 30 Strength unaided by magical means.
How many levels of sorcerer are you planning? Honestly with a 12 charisma it shouldn't be more than a dip to get the bloodline, yet DD isn't available until 6th level. If you only dip 1 - 2 into sorcerer then that opens the door for 4 full BAB levels, and that makes paladin (oath of vengeance) a contender.
That was a typo that I've corrected - it will be 16 at 1st level, +1 at 12th, 16th and 20th. The character will be a XX 2/Sorcerer 10/Dragon Disciple 8 by the time he is finished.
What's wrong with a half-orc paladin?
I would put STR at 16 and CHA at 18 for higher saves and because as you note you'll get boosting strength a whole lot.
What's wrong with a half-orc paladin?
I would put STR at 16 and CHA at 18 for higher saves and because as you note you'll get boosting strength a whole lot.
I kind of had these themes in my head - the Human Paladin descended from a Gold Dragon or the Half-Orc Barbarian descended from a Red... but you are right in that the Half-Orc Paladin may provide the best of both worlds. +1 saves, Darkvision 60' and +2 Intimidate may offer more to the character than a bonus feat and +1 skill rank/level.
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I'm one of the biggest Paladin fans there is, so I have to say that paladin is probably hands down the best. Remember, you aren't just getting a +3 to Saving Throws, you're getting your Charisma Mod, which will increase as you level. Same goes for Lay on Hands HP (which is small, but still there), as well as the Attack and AC bonuses of your Smite. At low levels it's a somewhat difficult choice, but at higher levels I think you'd be happier having taken Paladin.
I will agree that I think Half-Orc Paladin is the best of both worlds. You likely won't be too feat intensive (Power Attack, Furious Focus... other?), and the +1 to all saves is better than an extra skill. Plus, you can flavor his Red Draconic and Orcish bloodlines as an internal struggle, fighting against his inner brutality and darkness to maintain his status as a Paladin.
He could be their kid, a romeo/juliet love child, raised in a monastery.
If you took the half orc bite trait, would you have two bite attacks at 2nd level DD? Also, what is the DD's bite attack damage? All is says is that it's a primary attack that does 1 1/2 str.
Oh and optomistic gambler can cycle give you a d4 your touch of rage rounds via EH.
I still think in this case the Paladin is out-played. The build is considering a level 2 paladin vs level 2 barbarian. Lay on hands will NOT scale with level. And will become all but worthless at higher levels. Smite Evil will be very similar to rage (slightly better at higher levels) yet only usable against ONE person in the fight and only ever once per day.
As for other considerations, look at the class skills of Paladin Vs Barbarian. AND the fact that the barbarian gets 4 more skill points then the paladin. Plus Barbarians give you more wiggle room as you just have to be non-lawful. Which doesn't mean you can't do some lawful things and be ok, but if the paladin every goes from lawful good... You lose everything.
Pick Barbarian:
Moment of Clerity or Lesser Totem (Fiend/Beast/Spirit)
More skill points, +HP, Fast movment, Uncanny Dodge (or DR 1/- if invulnerable).
Pick Sorc. as Favored class and add 1/2 Sorc level to all fire spells.
Traits:
Magical Knack as Trait +2 CL, Reactionary +2 Init.
Feats:
Craft Wonderous, Extra Rage,
Full Attack: Claw x2 or 2-Handed weapon, Bite, Totem Attack, Armor Spikes, Quicken touch spell or Chill Touch/Calcific Touch with Claw attack.
Gear:
Amulet of Mighty Fists (+3/Furious/Energy), Robes of Arcane Heritage (Dragonic).
Spells
Fire Shield (Dazing Meta-Rod when you can)
-Flash
A disadvantage of barbarian, barring urban barbarian, is that you cannot cast while you are raging, so you are losing access to one of your central class features.
Have you looked at other starting classes, such as samurai/cavalier or ranger? What about full bard to enter DD directly? Why not fighter?
I still think in this case the Paladin is out-played. The build is considering a level 2 paladin vs level 2 barbarian. Lay on hands will NOT scale with level. And will become all but worthless at higher levels.
I really only look at Lay on Hands in this case as 4d6 or 5d6 extra hit points for the character - swift self-heals applied whenever I'm not using a siwft or immediate action - viewed in that vein its essentially another round of front-loaded Toughness.
I still think in this case the Paladin is out-played. The build is considering a level 2 paladin vs level 2 barbarian. Lay on hands will NOT scale with level. And will become all but worthless at higher levels.I really only look at Lay on Hands in this case as 4d6 or 5d6 extra hit points for the character - swift self-heals applied whenever I'm not using a siwft or immediate action - viewed in that vein its essentially another round of front-loaded Toughness.
If you went for 4 levels of oath of vengeance paladin, you can take extra lay on hands feats to get extra smites. If you took silver smite bracelet you could even count as a paladin of level 8 for the purpose of smiting.
For example: paladin (oath of vengeance) 4 / sorcerer 1 / DD x.|
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I think the strongest case for the Paladin is his scaling benefits. NONE of the abilities granted by the barbarian scale as you level. The paladin benefits increase regularly (assuming your ability scores increase regularly), and provide an substantial increase in durability, while never putting the character in a situation where spellcasting isn't an option.
Barbarian is nice if you wanna do more damage, but it will give you far lower defenses compared to the Paladin, and the damage increase of 4 strength really doesn't seem justified.
Of course, I'd stay away from your natural weapons. Stick to a two-hander, buff your bite with spells/potions if you need to. Heck, you could probably make yourself quite the tank if you went sword/buckler.
I would think of it as offense vs. than defense.
Barbarian gives you more of an offensive build. Rage, and rage power, strength, etc...
Paladin gives you better armor, better saves, a little bit of healing, etc...
I would say it kinda depends on your experince with your group and GM. If the group isn't real good at defending the squishies or you find yourself failing lots of high DC saves, take the paladin. If your group doens have much dedicade offensive muscle take barbarian.
I still think in this case the Paladin is out-played. The build is considering a level 2 paladin vs level 2 barbarian. Lay on hands will NOT scale with level. And will become all but worthless at higher levels.I really only look at Lay on Hands in this case as 4d6 or 5d6 extra hit points for the character - swift self-heals applied whenever I'm not using a siwft or immediate action - viewed in that vein its essentially another round of front-loaded Toughness.If you went for 4 levels of oath of vengeance paladin, you can take extra lay on hands feats to get extra smites. If you took silver smite bracelet you could even count as a paladin of level 8 for the purpose of smiting.
For example: paladin (oath of vengeance) 4 / sorcerer 1 / DD x.
Remember that his concept is a caster first and a fighter second. That's a lot of caster levels to give up.
As to the Paladin vs Barbarian choice, I think Paladin is the clear choice. As you said, fast movement won't really help you with heavy armor (although heavy armor with arcane armor training can be rough). The fact that you'll undoubtedly be raising cha and getting cha items means that at the end of the day Divine Grace and Smite will pay a lot of dividends. You'll also really need that extra feat.
I still think in this case the Paladin is out-played. The build is considering a level 2 paladin vs level 2 barbarian. Lay on hands will NOT scale with level. And will become all but worthless at higher levels.I really only look at Lay on Hands in this case as 4d6 or 5d6 extra hit points for the character - swift self-heals applied whenever I'm not using a siwft or immediate action - viewed in that vein its essentially another round of front-loaded Toughness.If you went for 4 levels of oath of vengeance paladin, you can take extra lay on hands feats to get extra smites. If you took silver smite bracelet you could even count as a paladin of level 8 for the purpose of smiting.
For example: paladin (oath of vengeance) 4 / sorcerer 1 / DD x.Remember that his concept is a caster first and a fighter second. That's a lot of caster levels to give up.
As to the Paladin vs Barbarian choice, I think Paladin is the clear choice. As you said, fast movement won't really help you with heavy armor (although heavy armor with arcane armor training can be rough). The fact that you'll undoubtedly be raising cha and getting cha items means that at the end of the day Divine Grace and Smite will pay a lot of dividends. You'll also really need that extra feat.
The two main characters I've played have been a Halfling Master Summonr and a Human Oath of Vengeance Paladin I've played both into the late teens), so I really agonized over taking 4 levels of Paladin due to my fondness for the character, but in the end it really did come down to wanting to be an effective caster - not just a guy who can self-buff but actually do some Fireball/Fire Snake spell-slinging when the opportunity arises.
The character was originally conceived as a cross-blooded Sorcerer rather than one who took the Eldritch Heritage feats, but that idea got axed for much the same reason - too limiting when it came to spell casting.
I think I've decided on going Half-Orc Paladin to open - I'll post the character's build in a bit for critique.
The character as he stands now:
Half-Orc 2nd level Paladin / 10th level Sorcerer (Gold Dragon) / 8th level Dragon Disciple
Attributes:
STR – 16 (+2 Racial bonus, +1 at 4th and 8th, +2 at 7th, 9th, 11th, 15th and 17th )
DEX – 12
CON – 14 (+2 at 11th)
INT – 10 (+2 at 13th)
WIS – 8
CHA – 16 (+1 at 12th, 16th and 20th)
Natrual Armor +1 at 5th, 6th, 9th, 11th, 12th, and +2 at 17th
(* all bonuses from leveling, feats and class features included)
Feats:
1st - Skill Focus: Survival
3rd - Combat Casting
3rd - Eschew Materials
5th - Eldritch Heritage (Orc Bloodline)
7th - Power Attack (Bloodline feat)
7th - Furious Focus
9th - Arcane Armor Training
10th - Improved Initiative (Bloodline feat)
11th - Arcane Armor Mastery
13th - Toughness (Bloodline feat)
13th - Arcane Strike
15th - Improved Eldritch Heritage (Orc Bloodline)
17th - Quicken Spell (Bloodline feat)
17th - Greater Eldritch Heritage (Orc Bloodline)
19th - Dreadful Carnage or Dazing Spell
Traits:
Magical Knack (+2 Caster level)
Opportunistic Gambler (Morale bonuses last 1d4 rounds longer than normal)
Sacred Tattoo (+1 luck bonus to saves, replaces Orc Ferocity)
In addition to his spell-casting abilities, he'll eventually have access to Tough of Rage (6+ times/day) which should mesh well with Opportunistic Gambler, Power of Giants, Claws & Dragon Bite, a Breath Weapon, Wings, Darkvision 60', Blindsense 30', Fire Resistance and the ability to assume the Form of a Dragon multiple times a day.
The character should have a very high armor class and very high saves, should be able to deal solid damage in melee and at range, be effective against powerful individuals and hordes of minions and should have just enough versatility to fill a variety of combat roles... its a shame there are so few decent cold spells as I'd take Rime Spell in a second if I could and go Silver Dragon instead, but unless my GM allows me to 'research' sorcererous spells like Fireball and Fire Snake as cold versions of themselves, it looks like fire is the way I shall have to go. If I choose Sorcerer as my favored class, I'll at least be able to eke out another +5 damage from my fire spells - anyone know if Dragon Disciple levels stack with Sorcerer for the purposes of favored class benefits?
Thanks again to all of the insight offered so far - any critiques at this point would be welcome.
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I think the strongest case for the Paladin is his scaling benefits. NONE of the abilities granted by the barbarian scale as you level. The paladin benefits increase regularly (assuming your ability scores increase regularly), and provide an substantial increase in durability, while never putting the character in a situation where spellcasting isn't an option.
Barbarian is nice if you wanna do more damage, but it will give you far lower defenses compared to the Paladin, and the damage increase of 4 strength really doesn't seem justified.
Of course, I'd stay away from your natural weapons. Stick to a two-hander, buff your bite with spells/potions if you need to. Heck, you could probably make yourself quite the tank if you went sword/buckler.
I have played a Barb DD in PFS now for the past two years ... Rage and Rage powers scale with level. Maybe not mechanically increasing, but extra STR & CON is always welcome at every level. Stacked with the DD's STR increase, he keeps up with the other melee classes.
You don't cast very often in combat ... Mirror Image is the exception. Most are buffing / RP castings.
Just my 2 cp.
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I have played a Barb DD in PFS now for the past two years ... Rage and Rage powers scale with level. Maybe not mechanically increasing, but extra STR & CON is always welcome at every level. Stacked with the DD's STR increase, he keeps up with the other melee classes.You don't cast very often in combat ... Mirror Image is the exception. Most are buffing / RP castings.
Just my 2 cp.
Rage and Rage Powers don't scale with level. Yes, they are universally useful at every level, BUT...
Let's look at the Paladin's Divine Grace (+Charisma modifier to saving throws). At level 1-4ish, the benefits of being a paladin are roughly equal, trading an even amount of offense for an even amount of defense. However, as level increases, the benefits of the Paladin bonuses increase, where the Barbarian bonuses remain static. True, the HP gain from Raging increases as you gain more HD, but it goes away when not raging, making it essentially a moot point. Meanwhile, the spellcaster's saving throws are getting better and better, 1/day he can get a CRAZY bonus against an evil enemy, and he has immediate access to heavy armor if he so chooses.
Back on topic, though:
I'd swap Power Attack and Combat Casting. I honestly see this character as being very melee-centric for most of his early career, only really coming into the spellcasting around level 7 or 8 (when you could get Combat Casting). Unfortunately, you can't apply your favored class bonus to Dragon Disciple.
Other than that, looks like a fairly typical DD build. Have fun!
Back on topic, though:I'd swap Power Attack and Combat Casting. I honestly see this character as being very melee-centric for most of his early career, only really coming into the spellcasting around level 7 or 8 (when you could get Combat Casting). Unfortunately, you can't apply your favored class bonus to Dragon Disciple.
Other than that, looks like a fairly typical DD build. Have fun!
I'm trying to ride my bloodline feats to get the biggest bang for me buck - unfortunately I don't get the first free one til 7th level, so I decided to grab both Power Attack and Furious Focus then. Power Attack is a Bloodline feat, unfortunately Combat Casting is not.
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If you're not planning to take Arcane Strike until 13th level, I would think you can probably skip it. At that point you should reliably have access to magic weapons. Unless, of course, you're planning to use your claws and bite, in which case keep it.
I think the paladin is a great choice simply for the huge boost to saving throws you'll gain. However, if you want the ultimate Str DD, go with barbarian and 1 level of alchemist. The alchemist gains the use of a mutagen, adding +4 to Str. Eight more Str points between rage and the mutagen is pretty significant. That said, I still think it's a good idea to go with paladin for all the reasons you already outlined.
@Mercurial:
What kind of weapon will you use?
I'd also suggest to get some metamagic feats, it's what sorcerers can use best.
Quicken spell will likely be in conflict with arcane armor mastery later, so if you really want to use armor you should at least get still spell as well.
Is there a reason you are not looking at other melee classes?
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If you're not planning to take Arcane Strike until 13th level, I would think you can probably skip it. At that point you should reliably have access to magic weapons. Unless, of course, you're planning to use your claws and bite, in which case keep it.
Uh...it's also a free +3 damage per attack any round you aren't using your Swift Action, that stacks with everything. That's probably worth a Feat.
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Uh...it's also a free +3 damage per attack any round you aren't using your Swift Action, that stacks with everything. That's probably worth a Feat.
Ack! For some reason I was thinking it imbued an enhancement bonus to your weapons for the round. Yes, I agree, the bonus damage is certainly worth the feat.
@Mercurial:
What kind of weapon will you use?
I'd also suggest to get some metamagic feats, it's what sorcerers can use best.Quicken spell will likely be in conflict with arcane armor mastery later, so if you really want to use armor you should at least get still spell as well.
Is there a reason you are not looking at other melee classes?
It will be a Falchion or a Greatsword.
Why would Quicken Spell be in conflict with Arcane Armor Mastery? It was the best remaining Bloodline feat available which is why it was chosen with a Bloodline feat slot. I've been kicking around the idea of dropping both Arcane Armor Training feats and just taking Still Spell instead.
I'm only taking two levels of the melee class and there aren't many melee classes that would give me the kinds of benefits a 2nd level Paladin offers.
@Mercurial:
What kind of weapon will you use?
I'd also suggest to get some metamagic feats, it's what sorcerers can use best.Quicken spell will likely be in conflict with arcane armor mastery later, so if you really want to use armor you should at least get still spell as well.
Is there a reason you are not looking at other melee classes?
It will be a Falchion or a Greatsword.
Why would Quicken Spell be in conflict with Arcane Armor Mastery? It was the best remaining Bloodline feat available which is why it was chosen with a Bloodline feat slot. I've been kicking around the idea of dropping both Arcane Armor Training feats and just taking Still Spell instead.
I'm only taking two levels of the melee class and there aren't many melee classes that would give me the kinds of benefits a 2nd level Paladin offers.
Because of actions:
1) Arcane strike: swift action to activate2) Arcane armor training/mastery: swift action to activate
3) Quicken spell: swift action required
So if you want to cast a spell with 20% less ASF, you need 2) and cannot use 1) or 3) in the same round. I just mentioned 3) and 2) in conflict and not 1) and 2) because you will likely only attack and not cast when 1) becomes relevant.
It's basically the same conflict as with eldritch knight's capstone :-)
Still spell would always work and allow you to wear every kind of armor, even heavy armor. It's more costly though, even when you alleviate the cost for one spell like dragon breath with magical lineage trait.
Falchion is OK for furious focus, your claws or bite would not work with it, that's why I asked :-)
As for other melee classes not being worth it, it depends on what you want. Given all the archetypes available you could get a number of feats plus proficiency (fighter), trapfinding/divine spells/track/favored enemy/free two weapon fighting (ranger), challenge/order/tactician (cavalier)... Just juggling ideas around :-)
Because of actions:
1) Arcane strike: swift action to activate
2) Arcane armor training/mastery: swift action to activate
3) Quicken spell: swift action required
So if you want to cast a spell with 20% less ASF, you need 2) and cannot use 1) or 3) in the same round. I just mentioned 3) and 2) in conflict and not 1) and 2) because you will likely only attack and not cast when 1) becomes relevant.
It's basically the same conflict as with eldritch knight's capstone :-)Still spell would always work and allow you to wear every kind of armor, even heavy armor. It's more costly though, even when you alleviate the cost for one spell like dragon breath with magical lineage trait.
Falchion is OK for furious focus, your claws or bite would not work with it, that's why I asked :-)
Some good points there, particularly about the limitations on swift actions. I think I'm going to work Still Spell in there instead of Arcane Armor Training...
I'm also playing with a purely melee-focused version of the character - just for kicks. Figure 4 levels of Paladin (OoV), the 1 level of Sorcerer, 8 levels of Dragon Disciple and then Paladin the rest of the way. Something like that. I'll still get all of the attribute bonuses but will miss out on things like Breath Weapons and Wings... Spells will be limited to self-buffs and the like. It'll be interesting to see how it turns out.
Because of actions:
1) Arcane strike: swift action to activate
2) Arcane armor training/mastery: swift action to activate
3) Quicken spell: swift action required
So if you want to cast a spell with 20% less ASF, you need 2) and cannot use 1) or 3) in the same round. I just mentioned 3) and 2) in conflict and not 1) and 2) because you will likely only attack and not cast when 1) becomes relevant.
It's basically the same conflict as with eldritch knight's capstone :-)Still spell would always work and allow you to wear every kind of armor, even heavy armor. It's more costly though, even when you alleviate the cost for one spell like dragon breath with magical lineage trait.
Falchion is OK for furious focus, your claws or bite would not work with it, that's why I asked :-)
Some good points there, particularly about the limitations on swift actions. I think I'm going to work Still Spell in there instead of Arcane Armor Training...
I'm also playing with a purely melee-focused version of the character - just for kicks. Figure 4 levels of Paladin (OoV), the 1 level of Sorcerer, 8 levels of Dragon Disciple and then Paladin the rest of the way. Something like that. I'll still get all of the attribute bonuses but will miss out on things like Breath Weapons and Wings... Spells will be limited to self-buffs and the like. It'll be interesting to see how it turns out.
Here is a sample of a level 11 guy like that, geared towards fighting undead and evil outsiders
PALORIUS CR 10
Male Half-Orc Dragon Disciple 6 Paladin (Oath of Vengeance) 4 Sorcerer 1
LG Medium Humanoid (Orc)
Init +6; Senses Blindsense (30 feet), Darkvision (60 feet); Perception +8
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DEFENSE
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AC 16, touch 10, flat-footed 16. . (+6 natural)
hp 107 (6d12+4d10+1d6+33)
Fort +15, Ref +8, Will +14
Immune fear, disease; Resist fire 5, Dragon Resistances
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OFFENSE
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Spd 30 ft.
Melee +1 Bane (undead), Holy Lance, Hooked +14/+9 (1d8+8/20/x4) and
. . Bite (Razortusk) +8 (1d4+2/20/x2) and
. . Unarmed Strike +13/+8 (1d3+5/20/x2)
Ranged +1 Longbow, Composite (Str +4) +9/+4 (1d8+1/20/x3)
Special Attacks Breath Weapon (1/day) (DC 18), Dragon Bite, Magic Claws & Fire Bite (8 rounds/day), Smite Evil (3/day)
Spell-Like Abilities Detect Evil (At will)
Sorcerer Spells Known (CL 7, +13 melee touch, +8 ranged touch):
2 (5/day) Resist Energy (DC 17), Glitterdust (DC 17), Mirror Image (DC 17)
1 (8/day) Burning Hands (DC 16), Protection from Evil (DC 16), Shield (DC 16), Mage Armor (DC 16), Vanish (DC 16)
0 (at will) Touch of Fatigue (DC 15), Mage Hand, Prestidigitation (DC 15), Read Magic (DC 15), Detect Magic, Disrupt Undead
Paladin (Oath of Vengeance) Spells Known (CL 1, 13 melee touch, 8 ranged touch):
1 (2/day) Protection from Evil (DC 16), Bless Weapon
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STATISTICS
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Str 18/20, Dex 10, Con 16, Int 14, Wis 10, Cha 18/20
Base Atk +8; CMB +13 (+15 Bull Rushing+15 Tripping); CMD 23 (25 vs. Bull Rush25 vs. Trip)
Feats Arcane Strike, Combat Expertise +/-3, Eschew Materials, Extra Lay on Hands, Improved Bull Rush, Improved Initiative, Improved Trip, Power Attack -3/+6, Razortusk
Traits Magical Knack: Sorcerer, Reactionary
Skills Appraise +6, Bluff +10, Diplomacy +10, Escape Artist +5, Fly +5, Handle Animal +9, Heal +5, Intimidate +12, Knowledge (Arcana) +10, Knowledge (Local) +7, Knowledge (Planes) +10, Knowledge (Religion) +10, Perception +8, Ride +5, Sense Motive +5, Spellcraft +7, Survival +1, Use Magic Device +13
Languages Common, Draconic, Goblin, Orc
SQ Aura of Courage (10' radius) (Su), Aura of Good (Ex), Channel Wrath (Su), Divine Grace (Su), Draconic: Brass Dragon (Fire), Lay on Hands (2d6) (9/day) (Su), Mercy: Fatigued (Su), Orc Ferocity (1/day), Ring of Sustenance, Silver Smite Bracelet
Combat Gear +1 Bane (undead), Holy Lance, Hooked, +1 Longbow, Composite (Str +4); Other Gear Amulet of Natural Armor +3, Belt of Giant Strength, +2, Handy Haversack (empty), Headband of Alluring Charisma, +2, Ring of Sustenance, Silver Smite Bracelet
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SPECIAL ABILITIES
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Arcane Strike As a swift action, add +1 damage, +1 per 5 caster levels and your weapons are treated as magic for the purpose of overcoming damage reduction.
Aura of Courage (10' radius) (Su) You are immune to Fear. Allies within 10 feet save at +4 vs Fear.
Aura of Good (Ex) The paladin has an Aura of Good with power equal to her class level.
Blindsense (30 feet) (Ex) Sense things and creatures without seeing them.
Breath Weapon (1/day) (DC 18) (Su) 1/day, Breath Weapon deals 6d6 Fire damage, DC 18.
Channel Wrath (Su) When an oathbound paladin reach 4th level, she can spend two uses of her lay on hands ability to gain an extra use of smite evil that day.
This ability has no effect for a paladin who does not have the smite evil ability. This ability replaces
Combat Expertise +/-3 Bonus to AC in exchange for an equal penalty to attack.
Damage Resistance, Fire (5) You have the specified Damage Resistance against Fire attacks.
Darkvision (60 feet) You can see in the dark (black and white vision only).
Detect Evil (At will) (Sp) You can use Detect Evil at will (as the spell).
Divine Grace (Su) You gain your Charisma Bonus as a bonus to all saving throws.
Draconic: Brass Dragon (Fire) +1 damage per die for [Fire] spells.
Dragon Bite (Ex) Bite atacks deal 1d6 damage
Dragon Resistances (Ex) You gain Fire resistance 5 and +2 natural armor
Eschew Materials Cast spells without materials, if component cost is 1 gp or less.
Immune to Fear (Ex) You are immune to all fear effects.
Immunity to Disease You are immune to diseases.
Improved Bull Rush Bull Rush at +2 to push back. No attack of opportunity.
Improved Trip You Trip at +2 and don't cause an attack of opportunity.
Lay on Hands (2d6) (9/day) (Su) You can heal 2d6 damage, 9/day
Magic Claws & Fire Bite (8 rounds/day) (Ex) 2 Magic Claw attacks deal 1d6 damage. Bite attack deals 1d6 damage.
Magical Knack: Sorcerer +2 CL for a specific class, to a max of your HD.
Mercy: Fatigued (Su) When you use your lay on hands ability, it also removes the fatigued condition.
Orc Ferocity (1/day) 1/day, when brought below 0 HP but not killed, you can fight on for 1 more round as if disabled. The next round, unless brought to at least 0 HP, you immediately fall unconscious and begin dying.
Power Attack -3/+6 You can subtract from your attack roll to add to your damage.
Ring of Sustenance This ring continually provides its wearer with life-sustaining nourishment. The ring also refreshes the body and mind, so that its wearer needs only sleep 2 hours per day to gain the benefit of 8 hours of sleep. The ring must be worn for a full week before it begins to work. If it is removed, the owner must wear it for another week to reattune it to himself.
Faint conjuration; CL 5th; Forge Ring, create food and water; Price 2,500 gp.
Silver Smite Bracelet This heavy silver bracelet is etched with icons of purity, fidelity, chastity, and honor, and glows with a soft white light whenever its owner prays. The wearer of this bracelet treats her paladin level as 4 higher than normal for the purpose of her smite evil class feature.
Construction
Requirements Craft Wondrous Item, align weapon, creator must be a paladin; Cost 8,000 gp
Smite Evil (3/day) (Su) +5 to hit, +8 to damage, +5 deflection bonus to AC when used.
He would start taking some fire spells afterwards. To shore up defenses, mage armor and shield are the way to go, protection from evil also finds its way in there.
The idea is to be the ripping, biting and piercing (lance) divine vengeance. Smiting with a bite must look interesting, particularly when you add arcane strike to it ;-)
For the other version you could consider finishing the rest with eldritch knight or - more difficult though - arcane archer. Kind of unusual but doable would be a few levels of shadowdancer for darkvision, HiPS and evasion. Or, being even more unusual, take holy vindicator or cleric 1 and mystic theurge. So many options... :-)
I reiterate Fiend Totem, as it gives you a Gore attack while raging. with your 2 levels, you get 6+con rounds of rage per day, and you use it when you close on an enemy. Rafe, drop your weapons and unleash a Bite, Gore, Claw, Claw with an extra 4 pts of srtength to increase attack and damage.
4 attacks at full bab. with a Furious AMF, you get a +2 on top of any other bonuses you add to it on all 4 attacks That's pretty devestating at level 7 when you get your bite.
This thread is from 2012. I'm going to guess the OP made his decision a long time ago.
I'm one of the biggest Paladin fans there is, so I have to say that paladin is probably hands down the best. Remember, you aren't just getting a +3 to Saving Throws, you're getting your Charisma Mod, which will increase as you level. Same goes for Lay on Hands HP (which is small, but still there), as well as the Attack and AC bonuses of your Smite. At low levels it's a somewhat difficult choice, but at higher levels I think you'd be happier having taken Paladin.
I will agree that I think Half-Orc Paladin is the best of both worlds. You likely won't be too feat intensive (Power Attack, Furious Focus... other?), and the +1 to all saves is better than an extra skill. Plus, you can flavor his Red Draconic and Orcish bloodlines as an internal struggle, fighting against his inner brutality and darkness to maintain his status as a Paladin.
I echo these sentiments.