i have a lv 4 cleric, not physical at all with his big bad 7 str, but his wis is 18 and cha is 16. i have a dex of 12, so im not much of the combative perosn. would anyone recommend my adding some bard in there for the bardic performances??
i only ask because i have always been scared of "missing out" from multi classing. we are going through the Jade Regent AP.
it may not matter, but i also am Aasimar
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Generally speaking, the cleric can access spells that fulfill many of the same effects of bardic performance and last longer. Taking the caster level and spell progression hit isn't worth it, since the lost spell slots could have produced the same effects with better results.
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Well, if your not a high Charisma charcter, then no is problem.
If you have a high Charisma, then maybe is not real problem.
If you have a really high Charisma and don't mind not getting a whole lot after a while, then yeah is not problem.
I always plan on multiclassing if I do, infact, multiclass. If I do, I make sure I have the appropriate class abilities high enough to matter.
Nay, for reason mentioned by ToZ.
RPG Superstar 2014 Top 16
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it may not matter, but i also am Aasimar
Multiclassing into Bard could be very useful for you just for inspire courage +1, though you won't be casting many of your bard spells in the armor you'll likely want to wear as a cleric.
I would suggest if you want to do it, take one level of Bard with the Arcane Duelist archetype:
Arcane Duelist: gives you Arcane Strike as a bonus feat, which can come in very handy in melee, and all you give up is bardic knowledge, which is not very useful with only bard level anyway
Your one level of bard will also give you access to a lot of the bard's Masterpieces, which could prove useful later on. Masterpieces
thank you all. full on Cleric Keiji shall remain full cleric!!!
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I see you've made your decision, but I'll post this anyway so the last 20 minutes weren't a waste. XD
Inspire Courage: An affected ally receives a +1 morale bonus on saving throws against charm and fear effects and a +1 competence bonus on attack and weapon damage rolls, limited by bardic performance rounds.
Bless: Each ally gains a +1 morale bonus on attack rolls and on saving throws against fear effects, for 1 minute per level.
Inspire Courage has a benefit over Bless in adding to damage rolls and saves vs charms, but less of a duration. Bless would stack with the attack roll bonus due to being different bonuses.
Fascinate: Creatures within 90ft that fail a Will save sit quietly and listen to you as long as you perform, limited by bardic performance rounds.
Enthrall: Creatures within 100+ft that fail a Will save sit quietly and listen to you as long as you perform, up to 1 hour.
Enthrall has the advantage of time and distance, but will come in at a later level than Fascinate. (3rd vs 1st)
Distraction: Allow someone to use your Perform check in place of their saving throw, or grant another saving throw against illusions (glamer or figment).
I can't find many spells this actually affects, besides Illusory Wall. Any suggestions?
Countersong: Same as distraction for sonic magical attacks.
Protection from X: Allows a new save against mind control effects.
Countersong has an advantage of range and targets, working on all in a 30ft radius. Protection from Evil has an advantage in duration, and extra effect against the chosen alignment.
I see you've made your decision, but I'll post this anyway so the last 20 minutes weren't a waste. XD
Inspire Courage: An affected ally receives a +1 morale bonus on saving throws against charm and fear effects and a +1 competence bonus on attack and weapon damage rolls, limited by bardic performance rounds.
Bless: Each ally gains a +1 morale bonus on attack rolls and on saving throws against fear effects, for 1 minute per level.
Inspire Courage has a benefit over Bless in adding to damage rolls and saves vs charms, but less of a duration. Bless would stack with the attack roll bonus due to being different bonuses.
Fascinate: Creatures within 90ft that fail a Will save sit quietly and listen to you as long as you perform, limited by bardic performance rounds.
Enthrall: Creatures within 100+ft that fail a Will save sit quietly and listen to you as long as you perform, up to 1 hour.
Enthrall has the advantage of time and distance, but will come in at a later level than Fascinate. (3rd vs 1st)
Distraction: Allow someone to use your Perform check in place of their saving throw, or grant another saving throw against illusions (glamer or figment).I can't find many spells this actually affects, besides Illusory Wall. Any suggestions?
Countersong has an advantage of range and targets, working on all in a 30ft radius. Protection from Evil has an advantage in duration, and extra effect against the chosen alignment.Countersong: Same as distraction for sonic magical attacks.
Protection from X: Allows a new save against mind control effects.
well u got me thinkin again!! bahahahahah
my domains are good and travel
and just for information, im a cleric of Cayden Calien :)
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Well, while you're thinking, remember that your first bard level gets you those four abilities for 4 + Cha bonus rounds per day. (So, 7 rounds for Keiji.) In exchange, he is losing 1 to 3 cleric spell slots depending on when he multiclasses. Each bard level he takes past that only adds 2 rounds per day, and loses him many more spell slots. This is countered by bard spell slots, but those accrue much slower due to the bards lesser spellcasting.
I would put cleric casting and caster level (meaning length of spell duration) over those rounds of bardic performance.
Have you seen the Evangelist ?
Otherwise I wouldn´t multiclass out of cleric, not even for just 1 lvl of bard.
I would advise remaining a cleric. A rule of thumb that I have read is that it is generally not worth it to dip into a non-full-BAB class. They typically make up for slower BAB progression with other powerful abilities that progress with level (like Spells); so the dip's benefit will fall behind as you level, while your advancement in your main class remains permanently delayed.
hmmmmmmm, my guy is purely support, to soften the hit to my channel imma save up to buy the philactri of positive channeling. the reason i want to is i can do my performances, take the harmonic spell feat, and cast spells during my perfomance to not loose rounds. i know what i will miss out on. but even from a purely supportive point of view it is still completly not worth it???
No, it´s not, as your spells will be better at supporting.
Also, what do you mean by not losing rounds? You know PF bards can do everything they want while performing? Only starting the performance uses an acion.
mmmmmmmmmmmm, well thank u all. i honestly didnt expect this many people helping me. but it seems like a unanimous idea. guessin i will just keep him cleric. which isnt bad at all. im just always trying to find a reason to multiclass, i shall one day. just not with Keiji
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and just for information, im a cleric of Cayden Calien :)
Ah! I fellow worshiper of the Lucky Drunk.
I remember a fellow player in a short campaign taking up some 3.5 feats that allow him to stack his Cleric with his Bard levels to determine his bardic performance. Not sure what it was, but if your DM allows it, it may be an option to look out for.
Good luck.
my DM prefers Paizo PF only. and that feat seems realy nice
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My advice is often to build your concept.
What specifically does bard give your character concept that cleric cannot provide?
Is there something the cleric cannot do that you feel your character should be capable of?
And more to the point, are you sure?
For example, maybe your concept is "my character is a Charismatic priest who inspires his friends with his mighty paeans to the gods."
You can build that entirely with just the cleric. The cleric's buff spells do just fine, and Charisma is useful to a cleric because of channel energy, and the cleric has some good Cha based skills.
But maybe, "my character is a charismatic priest who manipulates sound and song to help protect my allies"
or "my character is a knowledgeable scholarly type who knows a little bit of everything"
--- THEN I can actually see a 1-2 level dip into the bard class for more class skills and abilities like bardic knowledge and countersong and fascinate would help reflect that concept better than just the cleric could do by itself. I wouldn't dip far so as not to bork my cleric spellcasting and domain advancement much, but 1-2 levels wouldn't hurt.
You could also consider rebuilding the character as an Evangelist (from Ultimate Magic, I think), with your GM's permission.
I don't recommend multiclassing for the sake of multiclassing. I love to build multiclass characters, mind, but it should be done because it suits the character concept and enables them to be more helpful to the party.
It's tough finding a reason to multi in Pathfinder; every time I've tried it's fallen flat. Back in 3.5 it was almost mandated for non-straight casters, but even fighters and rangers now want to stay single-classed.
And yet in a game I'm in, I'm playing a Fighter 2/Ranger 2...
:)
And yet in a game I'm in, I'm playing a Fighter 2/Ranger 2...
...and one player's Fighter I know has actually got some good mileage out of his one-level Cleric dip...
But maybe, "my character is a charismatic priest who manipulates sound and song to help protect my allies"
or "my character is a knowledgeable scholarly type who knows a little bit of everything"
--- THEN I can actually see a 1-2 level dip into the bard class for more class skills and abilities like bardic knowledge and countersong and fascinate would help reflect that concept better than just the cleric could do by itself. I wouldn't dip far so as not to bork my cleric spellcasting and domain advancement much, but 1-2 levels wouldn't hurt.
You could also consider rebuilding the character as an Evangelist (from Ultimate Magic, I think), with your GM's permission.
I don't recommend multiclassing for the sake of multiclassing. I love to build multiclass characters, mind, but it should be done because it suits the character concept and enables them to be more helpful to the party.
I second this post as the most sound advice in this thread. I'll also add to the call of those suggesting you ask your DM to allow the Evangelist archetype.
Often core only is set up because of people wanting the game to be simple or a fear of some of the newer classes having some powerscale issue. If it's the latter Evangelist is a vary timid archetype that isn't much better or worse than a standard cleric and fits the bill of a bard/cleric.
I'd go the route of asking politely showing him the links to the SRD/PRD if he needs a reference and you don't have a copy and simply explaining that thematically the class suites what you might be going for and is much easier than trying to make a bard/cleric multiclass. Explain that you'd really like to play that type of character without gimping yourself too much and being considerably less helpful to the party. Cross your fingers and hope for the best.
My advice is often to build your concept.
What specifically does bard give your character concept that cleric cannot provide?
Is there something the cleric cannot do that you feel your character should be capable of?
And more to the point, are you sure?
For example, maybe your concept is "my character is a Charismatic priest who inspires his friends with his mighty paeans to the gods."
You can build that entirely with just the cleric. The cleric's buff spells do just fine, and Charisma is useful to a cleric because of channel energy, and the cleric has some good Cha based skills.
But maybe, "my character is a charismatic priest who manipulates sound and song to help protect my allies"
or "my character is a knowledgeable scholarly type who knows a little bit of everything"
--- THEN I can actually see a 1-2 level dip into the bard class for more class skills and abilities like bardic knowledge and countersong and fascinate would help reflect that concept better than just the cleric could do by itself. I wouldn't dip far so as not to bork my cleric spellcasting and domain advancement much, but 1-2 levels wouldn't hurt.
You could also consider rebuilding the character as an Evangelist (from Ultimate Magic, I think), with your GM's permission.
I don't recommend multiclassing for the sake of multiclassing. I love to build multiclass characters, mind, but it should be done because it suits the character concept and enables them to be more helpful to the party.
there are some like mechanical reasons i want to and some reason that are just "him" he fancies himself as a ladies man. and believes he can swoon any with music. so i want the ability to summon instrument. i like the performances + harmonic spell feat so i can do like a double buff. we have a deaf wave oracle/ ninja (calls himself a mist ninja), and i want the o lv spell that allows me to make print appear infront of him. for the channel i would loose for 4lvs of bard i would buy the philactry of positive channeling. my GM sees why i want to, and says it wouldnt hurt to cross. i just like to see alot of peoples opinions.
But maybe, "my character is a charismatic priest who manipulates sound and song to help protect my allies"
or "my character is a knowledgeable scholarly type who knows a little bit of everything"
--- THEN I can actually see a 1-2 level dip into the bard class for more class skills and abilities like bardic knowledge and countersong and fascinate would help reflect that concept better than just the cleric could do by itself. I wouldn't dip far so as not to bork my cleric spellcasting and domain advancement much, but 1-2 levels wouldn't hurt.
You could also consider rebuilding the character as an Evangelist (from Ultimate Magic, I think), with your GM's permission.
I don't recommend multiclassing for the sake of multiclassing. I love to build multiclass characters, mind, but it should be done because it suits the character concept and enables them to be more helpful to the party.
I second this post as the most sound advice in this thread. I'll also add to the call of those suggesting you ask your DM to allow the Evangelist archetype.
Often core only is set up because of people wanting the game to be simple or a fear of some of the newer classes having some powerscale issue. If it's the latter Evangelist is a vary timid archetype that isn't much better or worse than a standard cleric and fits the bill of a bard/cleric.
I'd go the route of asking politely showing him the links to the SRD/PRD if he needs a reference and you don't have a copy and simply explaining that thematically the class suites what you might be going for and is much easier than trying to make a bard/cleric multiclass. Explain that you'd really like to play that type of character without gimping yourself too much and being considerably less helpful to the party. Cross your fingers and hope for the best.
my GM allows all the Paizo PF books to be used. we have a gunslinger in the crew. but since i had all books at my disposal from the begennig is why he prefers me to not change what i started as. cuz in the past i have been the guy who switches his class 1 time in game because not happy with original choice. i like my cleric, hes great. i creat ale or water if i want to....thats bad @$$. but i just figured that bardic performances would help out some for how i have played him. most of my healing has came from channeling. plus i use my domain ability of "touch of good" quite often. love the ability to be able to dump a prepared spell for a cure, so i never have to prep a cure spell. most of my spells have gone towards ones like: bless, bane, shield of faith, bulls strength, ect..
i just worry cuz im also the main support in the group as well as healer. we have an alchemist, but i dont think hes going the infusion discovery route. so i want to be able to help all at once and then aide our "paladin" of cayden (cavalier) even further
Generally speaking, the cleric can access spells that fulfill many of the same effects of bardic performance and last longer. Taking the caster level and spell progression hit isn't worth it, since the lost spell slots could have produced the same effects with better results.
how does a cleric match the +/+ to hit and damage received from the bard for the entire party as levels progress. that level 1 snapshot you provided is really not a true depiction of what each role brings to the table.
unless the evangelist is used of course
If you're gaining five levels of bard, the discussion is moot because you don't care about your cleric spellcasting.
would you suggest 5 over 4?? i figured in 4 because of the philactry could take up the damage done to my channel
oh, my bad. lol
there are some like mechanical reasons i want to and some reason that are just "him" he fancies himself as a ladies man. and believes he can swoon any with music.
THAT by itself is anyone with a high Charisma and a few ranks in Diplomacy and Perform. That's not a bard, per se. This is not a correction or anything, just a comment.
so i want the ability to summon instrument. i like the performances + harmonic spell feat so i can do like a double buff. we have a deaf wave oracle/ ninja (calls himself a mist ninja), and i want the o lv spell that allows me to make print appear infront of him.
I can't find "harmonic spell" anywhere -- could you please name your sources please? Just so I understand what you're talking about. :)
The other stuff you mention are 0 level spells and yeah, I can see dipping into bard for them.
Another option might be asking your GM if your cleric could research those specific spells you want and add them to your list of cleric spells known. If the primary draw is certain spells that might be a way to do it--since you are concerned about losing some healing mojo. (OTOH with an oracle in the party you shouldn't be the only healer.) Just another idea.
its in the inner sea world guide. and the oracel focuses his spells on his odd way of combay. obsucinr mist, and attacks creatures with in cuz he took some revelation where he can see in mist and fog, and he uses a speak so they can see him.........which seems sweet on paper untill he does it and none of us can see to help in combat at all.....so it works too well?
in case u do not have access to ISWG
Harmonic Spell
You can weave bardic music effects into your spellcasting in
such a way that your spellcasting and bardic performance
become indistinguishable.
Prerequisite: Bardic music ability.
Benefit: Whenever you cast a spell while you are
maintaining a bardic performance, you can maintain the
bardic performance for that round without expending one
of your rounds of performance for the day. In addition,
you can switch from one bardic performance to another
as a swift action when you cast a spell while maintaining a
bardic performance.
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I wouldn't recommend it out of hand, mainly because I really can't see the purpose of multiclassing in PF. In 3.5, you didn't lose much for it, but nowadays...
Especially if the roles are a tad redundant. You're already a healer/buffer...giving up your precious cleric spells for some minor-league all-around buffing isn't going to help you all that much
If you really are going to dip into a second class, you can never go wrong with a 1 level dip into Warlord (third party class from Tome and Secrets). Just for showing up to the battle you grant your allies an untyped +2 bonus to initiative and a +1 bonus to attack and damage. And as a standard action you can do a little proactive healing by tossing out 1d6 temp hp. Also they have 4 skill points which you are free to drop into any perform skill you wish.
Remember, a command word activated 1/day summon instrument is dirt cheap and it shouldn't be too hard to find somebody that can make it for you.
i forgot to mention. we play Paizo only classes/races. no 3rd party.