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Lest assume that each gnoll get to make one attack before getting killed, also assume that they need a 20 to hit (doing 7hp of damage) and that the fighter have about average HP (180).
With those assumptions it would need 515 Gnolls to kill him.
The actual number is probably a lot higher, since he can use healing items fairly readily to keep going until he runs out, since he's almost certainly getting hit maybe once a round.
If he's got a Ring of Regeneration (or DR 5 from armor Master, which he should), he can probably kill a basically unlimited nuber of basic Gnolls in melee.
Make them all archers and put them on a flat plain and the number goes back down to 520 or so (assuming an average of 7 damage with their bows...which is only true if they're +2 Str Composite Longbows, with a more typical 4.5, it's 800), and they'll do it in a round as all the arrows descend on him simultaneously, potentially taking almost no casualties.
But aqgain, if he has DR from Armor Master (which he should), he becomes nearly immune to that, too.
So circumstances and equipment matter...but if he's actually wearing armor, and they aren't massively overequipped he can kill an effectively unlimited number of Gnolls.
How did a generic fighter get his hands on 10 damage resistance?
Regardless, assuming he has that, since each gnoll would be doing 1/7 as much damage as he would normally, it would take something in the ballpark of 3605 gnolls to kill him (assuming that Korpen's numbers are correct). Even more than that since Damage Reduction can reduce damage to 0. Probably closer to over 10,000 gnolls if he's got DR 10.
Korpen assumes that you can't attack gnolls before they can reach you and some other stuff, I doubt that any number of gnolls could kill a lvl 20 fighter if the fighter can be of any "general" build.
An archer could most likely shoot any gnoll before it arrives.
Or a two-weapon fighter could do a lot more attacks, and as the ennemies are only gnolls they will hit without a problem.
If you mean by "generic" fighter the sword and board without any feats that help against a large number of groups, then those 10 000 gnolls stand a chance.
But cleave, combat reflexes, longspear, and such things will make it near impossible.
On the other hand, the gnolls could just keep attacking the fighter, 1 every minute and wait till the fighter is exhausted and will (non RAW) die of sleep deprivation.
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That's not how critical hits work. You need to confirm them, which is literally impossible for the Gnolls if the Fighter has, say, AC 25+. Which he will.
So they'll still hit on 20 (and only on 20), but literally never crit.
So yeah, he can probably kill every generic Gnoll in the world, all working together.
Fighter has 10 Damage resist, which would make it a damage of 1, because you can't take less 1 point damage that's 1 HP of damage per gnoll.
Damage Reduction (or resistances in case of energy damage) and hardness can reduce damage to 0. If damage rolls is reduced to 0 or less with penalties before application of DR/resist/hardness the attack inflicts one point of nonlethal damage (which means that creatures immune to nonlethal damage can suffer 0 damage from attack even without DR).
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I know very well how critical hits work, or else the number should be very different. Assuming the gnoll have say battleaxes that do d8+str (read: 2) damage with x3 crit.
That means 1,5 HP of damage after DR/5 for a single hit on average. But one out of ever 20 hits is a critical hit, or 14,5 HP damage after DR. To make it simple it looks like this: (14,5+1,5*19)/20 = 1,875.
You misunderstand, Gnolls have a +3 to hit, thus they cannot ever critical against someone with AC 24+ (which a 20th level Fighter will certainly have). A 20 is still an auto-hit (and the only time they'll hit), but they are incapable of successfully confirming, and so will never critical.
However, looking at the default Gnoll, he has Power Attack, which actually ups his damage significantly (to 8.5 points per attack if using a shield, 10.5 if not). That's actually enough to make a significant difference...but only in melee, where the Fighter's getting hit maybe once every three rounds.
Toss the Fighter a Ring of Regeneration or some other healing items and the Fighter can still butcher pretty close to an unlimited number.
You misunderstand, Gnolls have a +3 to hit, thus they cannot ever critical against someone with AC 24+ (which a 20th level Fighter will certainly have). A 20 is still an auto-hit (and the only time they'll hit), but they are incapable of successfully confirming, and so will never critical.
Confirmation roll is stated to be an attack roll and thus subject to "natural 20 hits regardless of actual AC" rule. Of course chance of rolling two natural 20 in a row are rather slim.
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Confirmation roll is stated to be an attack roll and thus subject to "natural 20 hits regardless of actual AC" rule. Of course chance of rolling two natural 20 in a row are rather slim.
Ah! You're right. So 1 in 400 atacks is a Critical, and will thus do some significant damage (potentially over 30 points with Power Attack), which is relevant.
So, 400 attacks = 20 hits (including one crit), assuming Battle Axes wielded two-handed using Power Attack, that's 5.5 *19 + 26.5 =130 HP.
Of course, that's done 8 attacks at a time, so it's 50 rounds of combat. Assuming a Ring of Regeneration and no other healing (for simplicity), that's 50 points of healing, so 80 points of damage total. So about 20 damage unresisted per 100 Gnolls. That'll average out to around 1,000 Gnolls till death, total.
Using their weapons one-handed it's 3.5 *19 + 20.5 =87, again over 50 rounds, so 37 points net, and less than 10 damage per hundred Gnolls, making the total required more like 2,100.
With non-Mighty longbows only 3/160 hits do anything, and that's 1-3 points of damage (plus a critical for 8.5 points every 400). Still, rounding up a little that's 47 points per 800, so you'd need 3,200 to take the Fighter out in a round. But less than that might well work given time, just because they can focus fire so well. Terrain obviously screws this idea up quite a bit.
Mighty Longows do a bit better, averaging 19 * 1.5 +14.5 = 43 points of damge per 400 (or almost double the non-mighty variant), allowing 1800 to do the same thing as the 3200 mentioned above. Again, focused fire makes this a lot more effective (casualty-wise) than the melee tactic.
So it depends a lot on the terain, and how many attacks the Fighter's taking per round, as well as what healing he has acess to.
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So, say I wanted to try this as a real world experiment. What would the rules be for creating the fighter?
The original post says "generic" fighter, but what is a generic fighter? If guidelines for creating this guy can be established, I would find it interesting to grab one of my friends and see just how long it would take to get to the tootsie roll center of a tootsie pop ;)
1 20th-level Wizard Gnoll.
someone didn't read the "generic Gnoll" I guess.
Or you live in a very dangerous world if lvl 20 gnoll wizards are that common.
A generic 20th-level Wizard Gnoll. :p
Someone was just being funny.
Sorry, I'll stop.
But honestly, the question can't be answered without knowing the Fighter's feat selection.
I'd go for an even 100 and see what happens.
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So I put the question to my group and here's the first response ...
Yeah ok so I came up with a straight 20th level fighter with 880,000 starting gold. He has AC of 48 and his armor and shield are both +5 enhancement with Heavy Fort (75% negate crit) and the armor is adamantite which is DR 3/-. He has an amulet of Natural Armor +5 and a ring of Protection +5 and a cloak of Resistance +5 His weapon is a +5 adamantite vorpal longsword. If using max HP every level he has 440 hit points. He also has a Belt of Physical Perfection +6 (to Str, Dex, Con). Pretty much invulnerable to anything and has a fair chance of negating any crit threats that happen to get confirmed. So IMO one 20th Level geared Shield and Sword fighter could take on an army of Gnolls singlehandedly with no real chance of failure.
He did not give me a feat list though.
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What about "Aid another". They could attempt a grapple then too. If 8 could get into attacking possitions, and the fighter hadn't used all attacks of opportunity by that point, the gnolls could get a +14 bonus to grappel. Still not sure if that would be enough to help them though... Especially if the fighter has combat reflexes...
They should grapple him.... all of them.
Regardless, assuming he has that, since each gnoll would be doing 1/7 as much damage as he would normally, it would take something in the ballpark of 3605 gnolls to kill him (assuming that Korpen's numbers are correct). Even more than that since Damage Reduction can reduce damage to 0. Probably closer to over 10,000 gnolls if he's got DR 10.
This is one thing I think that 4th edition got right. Classic foes (like Gnolls) are available at almost every level. 1 Fighter would not be able to take on 10,000 gnolls and you wouldn't be forced to fight Dragons or extra-panar creatures pretty much from 8th level on.
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They should grapple him.... all of them.
Yes, I would guess that's the best tactics. 8 gnolls grappling together. Grapple in the first round, pin in the second, coup-de-grace in the third.
If the Fighter mows them down before they get a hold of him, the next 8 gnolls will step forward. Rinse and repeat.Korpen, would you be so kind and calculate the probability?
Well, if you have one main grappler and seven supporters, they could give him up to +14 bonus, distributed to CMB (attack) or CMD (AC).
assuming we can muck around with the gnoll gear a little...
1: fighter becomes surrounded by 8 gnolls with battleaxes or other two-handed weapons.
2: they are surrounded by 16 gnolls with reach weapons (call it longspears for simplicity)
3: those gnolls that can't get into melee are using slings on him (almost negligable, but lets call it 20/turn)
4: the gnolls are re-enforced with 15 fresh fighters per turn. (8 die from whirlwind attack, 7 from combat reflexes AoOs.) this maintans the status quo.
as a result the fighter is taking: 1 damage from range after DR (average) + (4 from 1d8 + 3 str + 3 power attack * 24 attacks / 20 hits) 12 - 5 dr = 7 damage in melee for 8 damage a round total. assuming 240 hp (he's been ill) then that will take 30 rounds and cost the lives of 450 valliant gnolls.
Gak, H'urus, Lor'rm, Ti'kkri, Bob... your sacrifices to science will not be in vain.
note that any confirmed crits could save gnoll lives, and they were not factored in.
I'ma side with effectively infinity. The fighter should have DR 8/- and would heal crits before they piled up enough to bring him down.
[bad singing]
how many Gnolls must a man take down,
before you can call him a man?
and how many seas must a white Roc sail,
before she sleeps in the sand?
and how many times must the crossbow bolt fly,
before they are forever banned?
the answer my friends, is blowing in the wind.
the answer is blowing in the wind...
[/bad singing]
It would probably take a long, long, long time.
And it should.
At 20th level a fighter is practically a demigod of melee.
Actually... how many Gnolls does it take to make a CR20 encounter?
Multiply that number by 6 and playtest it!
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42. The answer is always 42.
Interestingly enough, 42 goes into 4096 exactly 97.5238095 times.
Coincidence?
Is the triple-20 rule allowed? If so, it would take only a few hundred. Eventually, they will have made 8000 attacks, so statistically, at least one of those would have been a triple-20.
It should be 758 Gnolls.
Which is the sort of number we're dealing with.
Of course, an equal CR encounter isn't supposed to be a losing fight.
A CR 25 Gnoll Encounter is 4,096 of the bastards, and perhaps more likely to result in death.
That's why I said to multiply it by 6. An equal CR encounter is equal to 1/4 of the resources of 4 to 5 adventurers, so I roughed the multiplication to be slightly more than the Fighter should be able to handle. Higher than your figure by a couple hundred, but close enough.
Why does this remind me so much of "How many angels can dance on the head of a pin?"
I suppose that we have to ignore the mountain of dead gnolls piling up around the fighter, by RAW I suppose it doesn't matter that there's a couple thousand dead gnolls in a 15 foot rectangle...
Using standard rules, as I understand them, if surrounded by eight gnolls, a single gnoll could attack each round with a +14 attack bonus from "aid another." A second tier of gnolls could aid from a square away with reach weapons.
If you are using generic gnolls from the bestiary, then some gnolls will have class levels.
Organization solitary, pair, hunting party (2–5
gnolls and 1–2 hyenas), band (10–100 adults plus
50% noncombatant children, 1 sergeant of 3rd
level per 20 adults, 1 leader of 4th–6th level, and
5–8 hyenas), or tribe (20–200 plus 1 sergeant of 3rd
level per 20 adults, 1 or 2 lieutenants of 4th or 5th
level, 1 leader of 6th–8th level, 7–12 hyenas, and 4–7
hyaenodons)
Treasure NPC Gear (leather
Anyway, whether you are using the class level gnolls or not, with aid another tactics critical hits will apply. That will significantly reduce the number of gnolls needed to kill the fighter.
But I'm not interested enough to do the math.
Here are two fighters in my campaign that are a little undergeared, but they are fully stated. 20 point buy and I allow keen and improved critical to stack but you can ignore that if necessary.
XAVIER CR 19
Male Human Fighter (Shielded Fighter) 20
LG Large Humanoid (Human)
Init +4; Senses Perception +20
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DEFENSE
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AC 43, touch 19, flat-footed 42. . (+14 armor, +9 shield, +1 Dex, -1 size, +5 natural, +5 deflection)
hp 340 (20d10+140)
Fort +21, Ref +14, Will +8
Defensive Abilities Active Defense, Bravery +5, Shield Guard, Shield Ward +4; DR 5/—, Shield Mastery; Resist Shield Ward +4
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OFFENSE
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Spd 20 ft.
Melee Heavy Shield Bash +27/+22/+17/+12 (2d6+26/20/x2) and
. . +1 Returning Trident +23/+18/+13/+8 (2d6+22/20/x2) and
. . +4 Keen Adamantine Longsword +26/+21/+16/+11 (2d6+25/15-20/x2)
Ranged Masterwork Longbow, Composite (Str +3) +24/+19/+14/+9 (1d8+3/20/x3)
Space 10 ft.; Reach 10 ft.
Special Attacks Shield Buffet (swift action), Shield Fighter +4
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STATISTICS
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Str 20/28, Dex 15/19, Con 16/22, Int 10, Wis 10, Cha 14
Base Atk +20; CMB +30; CMD 54
Feats Bashing Finish, Combat Reflexes (5 AoO/round), Critical Focus, Double Slice, Greater Shield Focus, Greater Two-weapon Fighting, Greater Vital Strike, Improved Critical: Longsword, Improved Shield Bash, Improved Two-weapon Fighting, Improved Vital Strike, Iron Will, Power Attack -6/+12, Shield Focus, Shield Master, Shield Slam, Shield Specialization: Heavy Shield, Shield Specialization: Heavy Shield, Skill Focus: Intimidate, Toughness +20, Two-weapon Fighting, Vital Strike
Traits Armor Expert, Conspiracy Hunter: Diplomacy
Skills Acrobatics -1, Climb +4, Diplomacy +26, Escape Artist -1, Fly -3, Intimidate +31, Knowledge (Nobility) +7, Perception +20, Ride -1, Sense Motive +9, Stealth -5, Swim +11
Languages Common
Combat Gear +1 Returning Trident, +4 Keen Adamantine Longsword, +5 Bashing Shield, Heavy Steel, +5 Fortification, Heavy Adamantine Full Plate, Arrow, Durable (50), Masterwork Longbow, Composite (Str +3); Other Gear Amulet of Natural Armor +5, Belt of Physical Perfection, +6, Cloak of Displacement, Minor, Portable Hole (1 @ 7545 lbs), Ring of Protection, +5
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TRACKED RESOURCES
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+1 Returning Trident - 0/1
Arrow, Durable - 0/50
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SPECIAL ABILITIES
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Active Defense +5 (Ex) Swift action to share dodge bonus with adjacent ally or 1/2 bonus with all.
Armor Expert -1 Armor check penalty.
Bashing Finish Whenever you score a critical hit with a melee weapon, you can shield bash the same target as a free action.
Bravery +5 (Ex) +5 Will save vs. Fear
Combat Reflexes (5 AoO/round) You may make up to 5 attacks of opportunity per round, and may make them while flat-footed.
Critical Focus +4 to confirm critical hits.
Damage Reduction (5/-) You have Damage Reduction against all attacks.
Improved Shield Bash You still get your shield bonus while using Shield Bash.
Power Attack -6/+12 You can subtract from your attack roll to add to your damage.
Shield Buffet (swift action) (Ex) Combat Maneuver check to give foe -2 penalty to AC and attack vs you.
Shield Fighter +4 (Ex) +4 to hit and damage with shields, may alternate weapons during a full attack rather than 2-weapon.
Shield Focus +1 Shield AC
Shield Guard (Ex) Designate 1 or more squares. Enemies in those squares cannot flank you or count towards flanking others.
Shield Master No off-hand penalties for shield bashes, add a shield's enhancement bonus to attack rolls.
Shield Mastery (Ex) DR 5/- while using a shield.
Shield Slam Shield Bash is also a Bull Rush.
Shield Specialization: Heavy Shield You have mastered the use of one type of shield.
Prerequisites: Proficiency with selected shield, Shield Focus, fighter level 4th.
Benefit: Choose one type of shield (buckler, light, heavy, or tower shield). With the selected shie
Shield Specialization: Heavy Shield You have mastered the use of one type of shield.
Prerequisites: Proficiency with selected shield, Shield Focus, fighter level 4th.
Benefit: Choose one type of shield (buckler, light, heavy, or tower shield). With the selected shie
Shield Ward +4 (Ex) Evasion, add Shield AC to touch AC and Ref saves.
Vital Strike Standard action: x2 weapon damage dice.
ZADOKI CR 19
Male Half-Orc Fighter (Weapon Master) 20
LN Large Humanoid (Orc)
Init +7; Senses Darkvision (60 feet); Perception +25
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DEFENSE
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AC 37, touch 15, flat-footed 36. . (+14 armor, +4 shield, +1 Dex, -1 size, +4 natural, +5 deflection)
hp 340 (20d10+140)
Fort +23, Ref +14, Will +14
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OFFENSE
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Spd 30 ft.
Melee Heavy Shield Bash +22/+17/+12/+7 (1d6+21/20/x2) and
. . +5 Axiomatic, Holy, Keen Adamantine Curve blade, elven +34/+29/+24/+19 (2d8+45/12-20/x3) and
. . Bite (Tusked) +17 (1d6+10/20/x2)
Ranged +1 Longbow, Composite (Str +5) +23/+18/+13/+8 (1d8+6/20/x3)
Space 10 ft.; Reach 10 ft.
Special Attacks Critical Specialist: Curve blade, elven, Deadly Critical: Curve blade, elven (3/day), Reliable Strike: Curve blade, elven (4/day), Unstoppable Strike: Curve blade, elven, Weapon Training +5: Curve blade, elven
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STATISTICS
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Str 20/28, Dex 12/16, Con 16/22, Int 12, Wis 12, Cha 11
Base Atk +20; CMB +30 (+34 Sundering); CMD 46 (51 vs. Disarm53 vs. Sunder)
Feats Bleeding Critical, Critical Focus, Exotic Weapon Proficiency: Curve blade, elven, Greater Penetrating Strike, Greater Sunder, Greater Vital Strike, Greater Weapon Focus: Curve blade, elven, Greater Weapon Specialization: Curve blade, elven, Improved Critical: Curve blade, elven, Improved Initiative, Improved Sunder, Improved Vital Strike, Iron Will, Penetrating Strike, Power Attack -6/+12, Quick Draw, Sundering Strike, Toughness +20, Vital Strike, Weapon Focus: Curve blade, elven, Weapon Specialization: Curve blade, elven
Traits Conspiracy Hunter: Perception, Tusked
Skills Acrobatics -3, Climb +13, Escape Artist -3, Fly -5, Intimidate +25, Knowledge (Dungeoneering) +18, Knowledge (Engineering) +18, Perception +25, Ride -3, Stealth -7, Swim +11
Languages Common, Elven, Orc
SQ Orc Ferocity (1/day), Weapon Guard +5: Curve blade, elven (Ex), Weapon Mastery: Curve blade, elven (Ex)
Combat Gear +1 Longbow, Composite (Str +5), +2 Animated Shield, Heavy Steel, +5 Adamantine Full Plate, +5 Axiomatic, Holy, Keen Adamantine Curve blade, elven, Arrow, Durable (50); Other Gear Amulet of Natural Armor +4, Belt of Physical Perfection, +6, Boots of Striding and Springing, Cloak of Resistance, +5, Handy Haversack (1 @ 4956 lbs), Manual of Gainful Exercise, +4, Ring of Protection, +5
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TRACKED RESOURCES
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Arrow, Durable - 0/50
Deadly Critical: Curve blade, elven (3/day) (Ex) - 0/3
Orc Ferocity (1/day) - 0/1
Reliable Strike: Curve blade, elven (4/day) (Ex) - 0/4
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SPECIAL ABILITIES
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Bleeding Critical Critical Hits deal 2d6 bleed damage.
Critical Focus +4 to confirm critical hits.
Critical Specialist: Curve blade, elven (Ex) Increase the save DC of any critical hit effects by +4 for your chosen weapon.
Darkvision (60 feet) You can see in the dark (black and white vision only).
Deadly Critical: Curve blade, elven (3/day) (Ex) Increase the critical damage multiplier of your chosen weapon
Greater Penetrating Strike Ignore up to 10 points of DR/? or 5 points of DR/–.
Greater Sunder +2 to Sunder, excess damage is transferred to the wielder.
Improved Sunder You Sunder at +4 and don't cause an attack of opportunity.
Orc Ferocity (1/day) 1/day, when brought below 0 HP but not killed, you can fight on for 1 more round as if disabled. The next round, unless brought to at least 0 HP, you immediately fall unconscious and begin dying.
Penetrating Strike Ignore up to 5 points of DR/?.
Power Attack -6/+12 You can subtract from your attack roll to add to your damage.
Quick Draw Draw a weapon as a free action. Throw at full rate of attacks.
Reliable Strike: Curve blade, elven (4/day) (Ex) Reroll attack roll, critical confirmation, miss chance or damage roll for your chosen weapon
Sundering Strike Critical hit's confirmation roll is a Sunder maneuver check.
Unstoppable Strike: Curve blade, elven (Ex) Standard action: a single attack with your chosen weapon is a touch attack that ignored DR or hardness.
Vital Strike Standard action: x2 weapon damage dice.
Weapon Guard +5: Curve blade, elven (Ex) +5 CMD vs. Disarm and Sunder or other effects targeting your chosen weapon.
Weapon Mastery: Curve blade, elven (Ex) Chosen weapon has an improved critical multiplier, always confirms criticals, and cannot be disarmed.
Weapon Training +5: Curve blade, elven (Ex) +5 to hit and damage with your chosen weapon.
Here are some that I was working on and they are 15 point buy:
BRICKHOUSE CR 19
Male Half-Orc Fighter (Unbreakable) 20
LE Large Humanoid (Orc)
Init +7; Senses Darkvision (60 feet), Scent; Perception +31
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DEFENSE
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AC 34, touch 16, flat-footed 31. . (+14 armor, +3 Dex, -1 size, +4 natural, +4 deflection)
hp 284 (20d10+140)
Fort +24, Ref +14, Will +19
Defensive Abilities Stalwart, Unflinching +5; DR 5/—; Immune mind-affecting
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OFFENSE
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Spd 30 ft.
Melee +5 Defending, Guardian, Speed Cold Iron Greataxe +31/+31/+26/+21/+16 (3d6+43/20/x3)
Ranged +2 Longbow, Composite (Str +11) +25/+20/+15/+10 (1d8+13/20/x3)
Space 10 ft.; Reach 10 ft.
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STATISTICS
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Str 24/32, Dex 12/16, Con 18/24, Int 10, Wis 14/20, Cha 8/14
Base Atk +20; CMB +32; CMD 49
Feats Blind-Fight, Combat Reflexes (4 AoO/round), Diehard, Endurance, Furious Focus, Greater Blind-Fight, Greater Penetrating Strike, Greater Vital Strike, Greater Weapon Focus: Greataxe, Greater Weapon Specialization: Greataxe, Heroic Defiance (3/day), Heroic Recovery (4/day), Improved Blind-Fight, Improved Initiative, Improved Vital Strike, Iron Will, Keen Scent, Penetrating Strike, Power Attack -6/+12, Scent of Fear, Vital Strike, Weapon Focus: Greataxe, Weapon Focus: Longbow, Weapon Specialization: Greataxe
Traits Conspiracy Hunter: Perception, Legacy of Sand
Skills Acrobatics +0, Climb +8, Escape Artist +0, Fly -2, Intimidate +27, Perception +31, Ride +0, Stealth -4, Swim +8
Languages Common, Orc
SQ Armor Mastery (Ex), Armor Training 2 (Ex), Miraculous Recovery, Quick Recovery (Ex), Unlimited Endurance (Ex)
Combat Gear +2 Longbow, Composite (Str +11), +5 Defending, Guardian, Speed Cold Iron Greataxe, +5 Fortification, Heavy Full Plate, Adamantine Arrows (20), Cold Iron Arrows (20), Silversheen Arrows (20); Other Gear Amulet of Natural Armor +4, Belt of Physical Perfection, +6, Boots, Winged (3/day), Boots, Winged (3/day), Cloak of Resistance, +5, Efficient Quiver (61 @ 12 lbs), Headband of Mental Prowess, WIS & CHA +6, Manual of Bodily Health, +3, Manual of Gainful Exercise, +4, Ring of Protection, +4, Shoanti War Paint (Red)
--------------------
TRACKED RESOURCES
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Adamantine Arrows - 0/20
Boots, Winged (3/day) - 0/3
Boots, Winged (3/day) - 0/3
Cold Iron Arrows - 0/20
Heroic Defiance (3/day) - 0/3
Heroic Recovery (4/day) - 0/4
Shoanti War Paint (Red) - 0/1
Silversheen Arrows - 0/20
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SPECIAL ABILITIES
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Armor Mastery (Ex) DR 5/- while wearing armor
Armor Training 2 (Ex) Worn armor -2 check penalty, +2 max DEX.
Blind-Fight Re-roll misses because of concealment, other benefits.
Combat Reflexes (4 AoO/round) You may make up to 4 attacks of opportunity per round, and may make them while flat-footed.
Damage Reduction (5/-) You have Damage Reduction against all attacks.
Darkvision (60 feet) You can see in the dark (black and white vision only).
Diehard You are stable and can choose how to act when at -1 to -9 HP.
Endurance +4 to a variety of skill checks. Sleep in L/M armor with no fatigue.
Furious Focus If you are wielding a weapon in two hands, ignore the penalty for your first attack of each turn.
Greater Blind-Fight Melee attacks treat total concealment as 20%, and invisible ranged attackers you have pinpointed gain no benefits against you.
Greater Penetrating Strike Ignore up to 10 points of DR/? or 5 points of DR/–.
Heroic Defiance (3/day) 1/day, delay the onset of a harmful affliction or condition until the end of your next turn.
Heroic Recovery (4/day) 1/day, attempt an extra Fort save against a harmful condition or affliction.
Immunity to Mind-Affecting attacks You are immune to Mind-Affecting attacks.
Improved Blind-Fight Melee attacks ignore the miss chance for less than total concealment and can still reroll for total concealment. Invisible attackers within 30' you have pinpointed gain no advantages to hit you with ranged attacks.
Miraculous Recovery When making save vs ongoing effect, may roll twice and choose better roll.
Penetrating Strike Ignore up to 5 points of DR/?.
Power Attack -6/+12 You can subtract from your attack roll to add to your damage.
Quick Recovery (Ex) At 11th level, an unbreakable needs only 15 minutes of rest or to be subject to a healing spell or effect to recover from the fatigued condition. This ability replaces armor training 3.
Scent (Ex) Detect opponents within 15+ feet by sense of smell.
Scent of Fear +2 to hit shaken or frightened opponents, and can detect them at twice the normal range. +2 to Will saves if you can smell fear.
Stalwart (Ex) If you succeed at a Fort or Will save for reduced effect, you take none instead.
Unflinching +5 (Ex) +5 Will save vs. mind-affecting effects
Unlimited Endurance (Ex) When exhausted, only suffer the effects of fatigued.
Vital Strike Standard action: x2 weapon damage dice.
This character intentionally doesn't have any magic items.
MUNDANE CR 19
Male Elf Fighter 20
NN Medium Humanoid (Elf)
Init +7; Senses Low-Light Vision; Perception +25
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DEFENSE
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AC 24, touch 14, flat-footed 20. . (+9 armor, +1 shield, +3 Dex, +1 dodge)
hp 144 (20d10)
Fort +11, Ref +9, Will +10
Defensive Abilities Bravery +5; DR 5/—; Immune sleep; Resist Elven Immunities
--------------------
OFFENSE
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Spd 30 ft.
Melee Masterwork Dagger +19/+14/+9/+4 (1d4+28/19-20/x2) and
. . Masterwork Flail, Heavy +20/+15/+10/+5 (1d10+25/19-20/x2) and
. . Masterwork Longsword +22/+17/+12/+7 (1d8+28/19-20/x3)
Ranged Masterwork Longbow, Composite (Str +4) +21/+16/+11/+6 (1d8+19/20/x3)
Special Attacks Weapon Training: Blades, Heavy, Weapon Training: Bows, Weapon Training: Flails, Weapon Training: Natural
--------------------
STATISTICS
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Str 18, Dex 17, Con 8, Int 14, Wis 14, Cha 8
Base Atk +20; CMB +24; CMD 38
Feats Alertness, Bleeding Critical, Breadth of Experience, Cosmopolitan: Perception, Diplomacy, Critical Focus, Critical Mastery, Deadly Aim -6/+12, Dilettante, Dodge, Elven Accuracy, Elven Weapon Proficiencies, Improved Initiative, Improved Unarmed Strike, Iron Will, Perfect Strike (2d20) (5/day), Power Attack -6/+12, Sharp Senses, Siege Commander, Skill Focus: Diplomacy, Skill Focus: Stealth, Staggering Critical (DC 30), Toughness +20
Skills Acrobatics +16, Climb +3, Diplomacy +20, Escape Artist +2, Fly +2, Knowledge (Arcana) +6, Knowledge (Dungeoneering) +14, Knowledge (Engineering) +14, Knowledge (Geography) +6, Knowledge (History) +6, Knowledge (Local) +11, Knowledge (Nature) +11, Knowledge (Nobility) +6, Knowledge (Planes) +10, Knowledge (Religion) +10, Perception +25, Ride +2, Sense Motive +4, Stealth +22, Swim +3
Languages Celestial, Common, Draconic, Dwarven, Elven, Giant
SQ Armor Mastery (Ex), Armor Training 4 (Ex), Elven Magic, Weapon Mastery: Longsword (Ex)
Combat Gear Arrows (40), Masterwork Buckler, Masterwork Dagger, Masterwork Flail, Heavy, Masterwork Full Plate, Masterwork Longbow, Composite (Str +4), Masterwork Longsword;
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TRACKED RESOURCES
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Arrows - 0/40
Masterwork Dagger - 0/1
Perfect Strike (2d20) (5/day) - 0/5
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SPECIAL ABILITIES
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Armor Mastery (Ex) DR 5/- while wearing armor
Armor Training 4 (Ex) Worn armor -4 check penalty, +4 max DEX.
Bleeding Critical Critical Hits deal 2d6 bleed damage.
Bravery +5 (Ex) +5 Will save vs. Fear
Critical Focus +4 to confirm critical hits.
Critical Mastery Apply two Critical feats to a critical hit rather than one.
Damage Reduction (5/-) You have Damage Reduction against all attacks.
Deadly Aim -6/+12 Trade a penalty to ranged attacks for a bonus to ranged damage.
Dilettante You can make untrained Knowledge checks up to DC 15.
Elven Accuracy Reroll miss chance due to concealment.
Elven Immunities +2 save bonus vs Enchantments.
Elven Immunities - Sleep You are immune to Sleep effects.
Elven Magic +2 racial bonus on caster checks to overcome spell resistance. +2 to spellcraft checks to determine the properties of a magic item.
Improved Unarmed Strike Unarmed strikes don't cause attacks of opportunity, and can be lethal.
Low-Light Vision See twice as far as a human in low light, distinguishing color and detail.
Perfect Strike (2d20) (5/day) Roll 2d20 for an attack with a Monk weapon and use the higher as your attack roll, the next as your critical confirmation.
Power Attack -6/+12 You can subtract from your attack roll to add to your damage.
Siege Commander Grant weapon crew +4 on assemble or move checks
Staggering Critical (DC 30) Critical hit staggers target
Weapon Mastery: Longsword (Ex) Chosen weapon has an improved critical multiplier, always confirms criticals, and cannot be disarmed.
Weapon Training: Blades, Heavy +4 (Ex) +4 Attack, Damage, CMB, CMD with Heavy Blades
Weapon Training: Bows +3 (Ex) +3 Attack, Damage, CMB, CMD with Bows
Weapon Training: Flails +1 (Ex) +1 Attack, Damage, CMB, CMD with Flails
Weapon Training: Natural +2 (Ex) +2 Attack, Damage, CMB, CMD with Natural weapons
TACTIKALL #20 CR 19
Male Human Fighter (Tactician) 20
LN Medium Humanoid (Human)
Init +17; Senses Perception +29
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DEFENSE
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AC 39, touch 22, flat-footed 30. . (+6 armor, +7 shield, +3 Dex, +4 natural, +3 deflection, +6 dodge)
hp 244 (20d10+120)
Fort +24, Ref +16, Will +22
DR 5/—
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OFFENSE
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Spd 30 ft.
Melee Heavy Shield Bash +19/+14/+9/+4 (1d4+22/20/x2) and
. . +5 Dueling, Speed Shortsword +27/+27/+22/+17/+12 (1d6+30/19-20/x3)
Ranged +3 Longbow, Composite (Str +8) +23/+18/+13/+8 (1d8+25/20/x3)
Special Attacks Weapon Training: Blades, Light, Weapon Training: Bows, Weapon Training: Hammers
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STATISTICS
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Str 24/30, Dex 10/16, Con 14/20, Int 14/20, Wis 18/24, Cha 8/14
Base Atk +20; CMB +31; CMD 52 (54 vs. Disarm54 vs. Feint)
Feats Combat Expertise +/-6, Coordinated Charge, Coordinated Defense, Cosmopolitan: Knowledge (Arcana), Knowledge (Local), Deadly Aim -6/+12, Devastating Strike, Greater Vital Strike, Improved Initiative, Improved Vital Strike, Iron Will, Jaguar Pounce, Lookout, Outflank, Pack Attack, Paired Opportunists, Power Attack -6/+12, Practiced Tactician, Practiced Tactician, Shake It Off, Toughness +20, Vital Strike
Traits Dawnflower Initiate: Knowledge (Religion), Devotee of the Green: Knowledge (Nature)
Skills Acrobatics +24, Appraise +7, Bluff +4, Climb +17, Diplomacy +27, Disguise +4, Escape Artist +4, Fly +24, Handle Animal +15, Heal +9, Intimidate +4, Knowledge (Arcana) +22, Knowledge (Dungeoneering) +22, Knowledge (Local) +22, Knowledge (Nature) +22, Knowledge (Planes) +22, Knowledge (Religion) +22, Linguistics +30, Perception +29, Ride +21, Sense Motive +13, Spellcraft +27, Stealth +4, Survival +13, Swim +11 Modifiers Dawnflower Initiate (Knowledge (Religion))
Languages Aboleth, Abyssal, Aquan, Auran, Celestial, Common, Cyclops, Daemonic, Draconic, Dwarven, Elven, Ettin, Giant, Gnoll, Gnome, Goblin, Grippli, Halfling, Ignan, Infernal, Orc, Protean, Sahaugin, Shadowtongue, Sylvan, Tengu, Terran, Undercommon
SQ Armor Mastery (Ex), Armor Training 3 (Ex), Battle Insight +5 (8/day) (Ex), Cooperative Combatants (+5 allies) (Ex), Tactician () 13r (6/day) (Ex), Weapon Mastery: Shortsword (Ex)
Combat Gear +3 Longbow, Composite (Str +8), +5 Dueling, Speed Shortsword, +5 Shield, Heavy Steel, Arrows (20), Rhino Hide; Other Gear Amulet of Natural Armor +4, Belt of Physical Perfection, +6, Boots, Winged (3/day), Cloak of Resistance, +5, Efficient Quiver (20 @ 3 lbs), Headband of Mental Superiority, +6: Linguistics, Acrobatics, Ioun Stone, Dusty Rose Prism (Cracked), Ioun Stone, Pale Green Prism, Manual of Gainful Exercise, +4, Ring of Protection, +3, Stone of Good Luck (Luckstone), Tome of Understanding, +5
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TRACKED RESOURCES
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Arrows - 0/20
Battle Insight +5 (8/day) (Ex) - 0/8
Boots, Winged (3/day) - 0/3
Tactician () 13r (6/day) (Ex) - 0/6
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SPECIAL ABILITIES
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Armor Mastery (Ex) DR 5/- while wearing armor
Armor Training 3 (Ex) Worn armor -3 check penalty, +3 max DEX.
Battle Insight +5 (8/day) (Ex) As a swift action, grant +5 insight bonus on attack rolls to a single ally until the tactician's next turn.
Combat Expertise +/-6 Bonus to AC in exchange for an equal penalty to attack.
Cooperative Combatants (+5 allies) (Ex) When using aid another, you can affect 5 additional allies, and can grant different allies different bonuses.
Coordinated Charge You may charge the same foe when an ally does
Coordinated Defense +2 CMD if you are adjacent to an ally with this feat.
Damage Reduction (5/-) You have Damage Reduction against all attacks.
Dawnflower Initiate: Knowledge (Religion) You gain a +1 trait bonus to Knowledge (religion) and one of the following: Weapon Proficiency with the scimitar; a +1 trait bonus to DC of channeled energy; or Knowledge (religion) is always a class skill for you.
Deadly Aim -6/+12 Trade a penalty to ranged attacks for a bonus to ranged damage.
Devastating Strike Deal extra damage when using Vital Strike bonus
Jaguar Pounce Treat charge or spring attack against flat-footed or helpless foes as if you have Improved Critical.
Lookout Act in the surprise rouns if an adjacent ally with this feat can act in the surprise round.
Outflank Flanking bonus increases to +4 if the other flanker also has this feat, and ally gets an AoO if you score a critical hit against the target.
Pack Attack Ally's attack allows you to take a 5-foot step
Paired Opportunists +4 to hit for AoOs if you and an ally with this feat both threaten the target.
Power Attack -6/+12 You can subtract from your attack roll to add to your damage.
Shake It Off Gain +1 to all saving throws per adjacent ally
Tactician () 13r (6/day) (Ex) Grant the use of your Tactical feats to your allies within 30'.
Vital Strike Standard action: x2 weapon damage dice.
Weapon Mastery: Shortsword (Ex) Chosen weapon has an improved critical multiplier, always confirms criticals, and cannot be disarmed.
Weapon Training: Blades, Light +3 (Ex) +3 Attack, Damage, CMB, CMD with Light Blades
Weapon Training: Bows +2 (Ex) +2 Attack, Damage, CMB, CMD with Bows
Weapon Training: Hammers +1 (Ex) +1 Attack, Damage, CMB, CMD with Hammers
Hopefully these give you some fighters to throw some gnolls at.
If I had the time, this thread would have inspired me, in my software geekiness, to write a simulation program that would allow me to adjust the parameters of the characters to truly determine the mean/median number of dead gnolls and how different items/feats/etc would effect the encounter.
Hmmm... Maybe I could try and squeeze it in. If only I didn't have to pack for moving...
How many gnolls does it take to make a thread whose title actually tells you something about the content of the thread? Apparently it's impossible.
I would say.... Several thousand...
The bodies will eventually pile up. The fighter would eventually be unable to shove the massive mountain of corpses on top of him. If the Gnolls are smart, this would have been their tactic all along.
After a few days, the fighter will get hungry, and begin eating corpses. Rolls for disease would occur here. The blood would last for maybe a few hours to slake his thirst, if ever so slightly. Remember, corpses began to decay within hours on ancient battle fields, though now-a-days we eat so many preservatives it takes a few days, so I'll assume decay sets in within several hours. Thus he's eating decayed corpses.
Let's not forget the inevitable swarm of insects and rodents that will begin to accrue. Thus the swarm damage begins, as despite his struggling under the some possible few thousand pounds of corpse mountain (corpses + gear!), the miniscule things WILL be considering him part of their meal.
So... It may take two weeks and several hundred to a few thousand gnoll corpses... But they'd win eventually. Starvation, dehydration, disease, and carrion eating swarms will see to that.
In effect, the gnolls win the war, but lose the battle. :)
Does grapple succeed on a natural 20? If so, "all" you need is for 20 gnoll to roll a 20 on his grapple check, for the fighter to roll a 1 on his grapple check to break free, and then for the gnoll to roll another 20 to pin him. Then you've got a coup de grace possible. The odds of a 20, followed by a 1, followed by a 20 are pretty darn slim, though.
Any method that relies on dealing damage, in my own opinion, stands no chance against a fighter with DR and a ring of regeneration.
This is the most probable means to kill a fighter on endless flat terrain, I believe. Relying on 3 trick rolls. However, if the terrain is not flat, then this can change drastically. Add a chasm and then the gnolls can attempt to bull rush the fighter into it.
This is all assuming a natural 20 on a combat maneuver roll is auto-success, which I'm not sure of. If it's not, then a properly equipped fighter can kill infinite gnolls until you start factoring in fatigue with some homebrew rules.
My 2 cents:
I don't think it could possibly be infinity. If there's an indeterminate number of gnolls facing one fighter who has DR and, let's say, a ring of regen, sure, he's really not taking any kind of real damage. But I can't help but think that the probability could line up eventually and there'll be a round that they'll roll at least somewhere in the area of 5 natural 20's. Sure, the odds of that are astronomical, but dice are so random that it could happen eventually. Since there's no real limit to the number of gnolls that are flying at this guy, the probabilities are getting rechecked so often that sometime they're bound to line up into an amazing and seemingly impossible result. Is the number of gnolls infinite? Nope. If the guy's taking pretty much no damage from any of them except on a crit can we easily say how many? Nope. It comes down to a very simple amount: A lot, like, Xerxes' army a lot.
I know that this isn't a viable statement for Any kind of calculations, and will probably be disregarded as unhelpful, but...
Also, Crit and Fumble decks will slant the battle heavily to the gnolls, since the fighter would get a new penalty every few rounds, in theory.
Does grapple succeed on a natural 20? If so, "all" you need is for 20 gnoll to roll a 20 on his grapple check, for the fighter to roll a 1 on his grapple check to break free, and then for the gnoll to roll another 20 to pin him. Then you've got a coup de grace possible. The odds of a 20, followed by a 1, followed by a 20 are pretty darn slim, though.
Any method that relies on dealing damage, in my own opinion, stands no chance against a fighter with DR and a ring of regeneration.
This is the most probable means to kill a fighter on endless flat terrain, I believe. Relying on 3 trick rolls. However, if the terrain is not flat, then this can change drastically. Add a chasm and then the gnolls can attempt to bull rush the fighter into it.
This is all assuming a natural 20 on a combat maneuver roll is auto-success, which I'm not sure of. If it's not, then a properly equipped fighter can kill infinite gnolls until you start factoring in fatigue with some homebrew rules.
Wow, I did not expect to be ninja'd in that way. I think my post outlined that your idea is a perfectly viable tactic. It'll take a while, but it'll succeed eventually.
Yes, a natural 20 auto-succeeds a CM check.
Oooooohh, they could all try to called shot to the heart him in hopes of a crit to deal con bleed. That could reduce the fight to a matter of minutes, unless the Ring of Regen stops that...