The rest of the party Sorc, Ranger, Gunslinger
I could just make a Tanking Cleric, but I glued a Bow on my mini, and recently read Son of Neptune, and loved the character Frank Zhong (bow) so...Help or continue helping please?
one more time 20 point build/has to fight/ has to heal/ has to be a dwarf blah I hate thinking...I just want to play something fun but help out the party.
I thought maybe Druid with the hunters eye trait to get the bow, and then build him like the aspect of the beast from treantmonk. I dunno, do you think an all ranged party can be effective?
Wood Oracle can heal and get nice archery bonii.
All ranged parties will be great until they aren't.
You can play an archer cleric. Dig out the pathfinder cleric guide there is a build in there.
OOOOH REALLY!
say moreZen archers will get around a lot of the disadvantages of other ranged characters as they can fire adjacent targets.
Do you want full casting?
PreferredDo you want part casting?
NODo you want to switch hit?
Of courseDo you want arcane or divine casting? I always prefer Arcane but the party needs divine healing unless you know of an arcane class that can heal other than the bard and is dwarfy/ fun to play
Is the ranger using ranged? Plenty of melee options there. If he's a bow user too, why try to compete with his schtick? If you are, then dwarven zen archer can be strong, but would be lacking the healing. And that said, every character should carry both a melee and ranged weapon even if it's not the focus of the build.
Dwarven cleric with fighter dip. Dwarven bard. Dwarven paladin. Dwarven battle or metal oracle. Dwarven druid.
You have plenty of options. Pick one that seems fun and do it. You'll have more fun just playing it than trying to follow someone else's build that may not fit your style or campaign.
An entirely ranged party will own any encouter that starts at a distance, and get owned by any that start too close until y'all pick up the feats and abilities that let you do your things without AoOs. Wind walls and stormy nights could change easy encounters into tpk threats, but otherwise you may go on no-hit streaks where nobody loses a single HP.
What material are you able to use? Because if you can use 3rd party products you can use the super genius guide to archer archetypes to add signficant archer ability to any class, including the cleric.
"has to fight/ has to heal/ has to be a dwarf"
Why? Healing is a net loss of actions, you never keep up with incoming damage unless you're casting heal, and you're not casting a ton of those.
Why force yourself into a healing role where healing is so ineffective anyway? If you really need a tank then by god make a fighter, or a paladin. Make the ranger use a wand of CLW, shove that duty off onto him. Obligation is the abusive drunk Uncle of fun.
Yeah, your party needs healing.
I don't know Oracles, so can't say for them, might be worth checking out.
Your two best options are basically druid and cleric of Erastil
(or the Empyreal Lord Sinashakti, which would give you the Travel domain and allow a Chaotic-Good alignment, but your proficiency is short-bow).
In both cases, your priority remains Dex-Wisdom. Also some strenght to help with the damage once you get a composite bow.
It appears to me Cleric might be the best route, it's pretty dwarfy (go take a look at the webcomic Guilded Age for an example of a bow-wielding dwarf cleric/oracle). You get channels, and do not need to memorize your heals so you get a better spell selection.
In any case try to all (well, not the sorceror obviously) get the teamwork feat "Target of Opportunity", this thing is gold in a ranged group.
Leave the switch-hitting to the ranger, you have enough on your hands as it is.
You could always save your mini for another character. :)
But in seriousness...
Are you sure the ranger is going to be an archer? They're also quite good at melee.
But if you wanted to go the druid route, what I would do is cast summon nature's ally a lot to summon in critters to help with melee while you stand back and shoot if you want to.
You could do that with a cleric with summon monster, but you don't have the spontaneous casting option of summons.
The other thing is--divine casters are generally very versatile (and need to be). So you can probably shoot when you need to but if you're called upon to switch hit you can probably handle it (cleric has great buffs for that).
It's all possible, and you have a versatile party, so just pick what you think will be the most fun.
Obligation is the abusive drunk Uncle of fun.
LOL!
has to fight/has to heal/has to be a dwarf
without knowing which optional rules you're actually using, what alignments the rest of the party are, or what level you'll be starting at its hard to say anything concrete, but here are 3 options to consider:
there- odd? yes. effective healer? better than anyone else in the party... effective archer? yes!
hope that helps :)
RPG Superstar 2015 Top 16
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Personally, a dwarf cleric should have SOME Charisma (at least a 12 so it'll get knocked down to 10 so there isn't a nerf on your Channel ability), so a ranged dwarf cleric would probably be: Str 12 Dex 16 Con 10 Int 10 Wis 17 Cha 10 with the extra point going into Str, Con, Int or Cha. Not ideal, but plausible.
Otherwise, a dwarf druid with an animal companion could go a long way. Pick a companion that will accompany your role, grab a couple of cure spells until you can get the Wand of CLW, then use your spells for utility and damage support. Handle Aninal is the only skill that's hurt by your low Cha, but you'll eventually get level bonuses to help with that. Str 12 Dex 16 Con 14 Int 10 Wis 18 Cha 5.
Lastly, go Dwarf Inquisitor. Again, some healing spells which allow you to go Wand of CLW later and plenty of skills and other useful abilities and have bow and specialty crossbow proficiencies automatically. Pick Teamwork feats that will work well with your group and have fun! Crossbow stats: Str 10 Dex 16 Con 14 Int 12 Wis 18 Cha 5
Bow stats: Str 12 Dex 16 Con 12 Int 12 Wis 18 Cha 5.
Sincerely,
BPC
Archery can be somewhat feat-intensive to make really effective, at least in the beginning. Human would be a better choice than dwarf, if only because you can take Point-Blank Shot and Precise Shot at first level, negating penalties for shooting into melee; alternately, if you have a dedicated range-shooting party, take Rapid Shot instead of Precise Shot so you can shoot twice if you have a full-round active (but take Precise Shot next, someone's gonna have to go into melee eventually, that that -4 penalty hurts).
For a Frank Zhong character, Druid is the way to go, for sure. A Domain might be more thematically appropriate to take instead of an animal companion, though. Maybe make a Dragon Shaman (Ultimate Magic) with the War domain?
If you need healing (which, IMO, is more important than some people give it credit for), it's hard to beat a cleric. Erastil would be a great choice: favoured weapon is the longbow, and you get access to the Animal domain (Feather and Fur subdomains). The Fur subdomain gives you Beast Shape I as third-level a domain spell, though Feather gives you fly spells. Either would be appropriate for a Frank, and it's kind of a shame that you can't take both. I can't think which of Erastil's other domains would fit; maybe go with the Crusader archetype (from Ultimate Combat)? Only one domain and fewer spells per day, but you some bonus feats instead. The Legion's Blessing ability of this archetype might have some interesting uses.
Unless you go Fighter, you're gonna need feats in the early levels to make an effective archer. Do you have your heart set on Dwarf? Because Human would really be a better choice, IMO.
thank you i am thinking
dwarf cleric of the green faith or erastil (that would open up the other trait for something else)
traits hunters eye, ???
1st point blank
I merged the threads on this topic.
Obligation is the abusive drunk Uncle of fun.LOL!
has to fight/has to heal/has to be a dwarfwithout knowing which optional rules you're actually using, what alignments the rest of the party are, or what level you'll be starting at its hard to say anything concrete, but here are 3 options to consider:
** spoiler omitted **
** spoiler omitted **
** spoiler omitted **...
nate lange this intrigues me
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"has to fight/ has to heal/ has to be a dwarf"
Why? Healing is a net loss of actions, you never keep up with incoming damage unless you're casting heal, and you're not casting a ton of those.
Why force yourself into a healing role where healing is so ineffective anyway? If you really need a tank then by god make a fighter, or a paladin. Make the ranger use a wand of CLW, shove that duty off onto him. Obligation is the abusive drunk Uncle of fun.
I am getting SO tired of people saying "you don't need a healer". Maybe that is true for your game, but that doesn't mean you should make the assumption that it applies to every Pathfinder game. If the OP wants to play a healer, either help him out or surf on over to another thread. Anything else just isn't very....helpful.
To the OP: an archer cleric build is going to take awhile to come together, as you need three basic feats to be a competent archer (Point Blank Shot, Rapid Shot and Precise Shot) -- and a Dwarf cleric doesn't get his 3rd feat until 5th level. If you want full caster progression, go straight cleric and stick it out until you hit 5th level. You'll be a decent archer and a very good casting cleric.
If you don't mind multiclassing, take a look at 2 levels of fighter (gives you 2 bonus feats), or 3 levels of Zen Archer monk (tons of archery feats AND you can use WIS instead of DEX for your attacks with a bow. Either of these options will build a fine archer that has decent (but certainly not great) cleric casting options.
glad to hear that :)
let me know if there's anything else i can do to help.
so i should have mentioned were are going jade regent ap. am guessing not a lot if chances to buy stuff in the ice and snow. So my favorite nate lange suggestion the fighter with all the precisely placed traits and stuff. probably gonna fizzle when his wand/ scrolls run out. but i can use anything that is Paizo published no 3p we just dont have as much easy access to that. so it is not fair to all
i'm not familiar with that ap (or any ap for that matter)- what level are you starting at?
i'm not familiar with that ap (or any ap for that matter)- what level are you starting at?
it si the newest ap from paizo and we are starting at 1
Clerics remain one of the most powerful classes in the game. Your party will absolutely get more done with a real cleric in the party, and not just some guy with a CLW wand. The cleric is king of keeping the party going, and can use any spell on the list. No other class comes close.
A dip into fighter will give you heavy armor proficiency, and longbow and dwarven waraxe for free, a feat, and some hit points, at the cost of a cleric level.
A dip into barbarian, if your alignment allows it, will give you enough movement to stay with the party, a couple more hit points, the same weapon proficiencies, and some class skills and points the fighter doesn't get.
Frankly, with a gunboy and an archer, you've got ranged stuff covered. Not everything dies before it gets to you.
I'm playing a bow using elf cleric of Desna in that AP now. At third level I realized that it would be really difficult to be a good archer only taking cleric levels. I'm still enjoying the bow at 4th level, but 1d8+2 is rapidly becoming weaker.
My thought would be to go bard, and focus on bow attacks. Another thing to consider is that a single level of cleric gets you a load of good healing, and all kinds of other goodies. If you have a god Cha or take the extra channel feat, you could do a lot of healing indeed.
Well right now my favorite idea is a dwarven cleric of erastil fur???/Growth. Though it has been said foolish and hard to do. I am going to build in my favorite style and that is drop and draw.I have modified the mini to have a long spear and a bow he has reach and range. if i can find another mini I don't mind stealing from he'll gain an axe. The difference will be that early on he'll get all the ranged feats he is gonna get PB and Rapid. the rest will be clericy. i dunno it sounds lame but it might work. My dm has killed many of my pcs in the past. So i guess we will see.
the fighter build will be a little challenging at times, especially if you're going to have trouble restocking consumables. at really low levels you won't really have any healing ability at all- you won't have any scrolls yet and if you have a healers kit you'll have to ration out its uses. the good news is that with a bow fighter, a bow ranger, a gunslinger, and a sorcerer enemies shouldn't live long enough to do much damage.
honestly, in terms of functionality a cleric of erastil (with Guided Hand) is clearly your best option: decent combat and spells/channeling that renew everyday.
i've never played an ap, so i have no frame of reference for how survivable they are without a healer. the healing fighter build gets more effective the higher the level- so if you guys can live long enough to level some and are able to take advantage of opportunities to stock up on consumables, it could be a fun but tricky way to get through it. its up to you- hope you have fun!
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There are many ways to fill the role you want for your character. The hard part is picking what way to want to do it. Some of the best ways to fill the role my not look that way at first glance. In games I play the first rule is if it is not an attack spell. Wand it. The Second rule if it is a spell I will not use often. Wand it. Third rule if it is a spell that I want on hand at all times. Wand it. That covers all the healing, restoration, and remove (Condition) X spells. And you just need the spell to be on your list to use the wand. And just remember it is just as cheap for a cleric to buy the wands as any one else. That leaves your spells per day open for thing other then healing. So the rules apply even if your a cleric.
Cleric : The base line of what your looking for.
Paladin : Has every spell you need from the cleric, and is a better combatant.
Ranger : Has most of the spells you need from the cleric, and is better at combat and skills.
Druid : Has most of the spells you need from the cleric, and has special ability's.
Oracle : Has every spell the cleric dose. Revelations focused on combat can cover allot of ground. (The only down side it there Cha base casters and you want to be a Dwarf.)
Inquistor : Has every spell you need from the cleric. Along with specal ability's to help them in combat.
Bard : Has most of the spells you need, and the UMD to use the ones that you don't have. (This is one of the best options. Even if he is Cha base casting. You just go with a combat base and let your spells be buffing, and healing.)
Dwarf
Bard
Str 16 (All level up points here.)
Dex 10
Con 16
Int 12
Wis 10
Cha 12
Pick up a battle axe, or war hammer and two hand it. Not the best combatent, and Not the best healer. They are the best force multiplier, and one of the best skill monkeys.
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Here ya go:
Dwarf Holy Warrior of Angradd (who's picked up a trick surface-side):
STR:14
DEX:12
CON+14
INT:12
WIS+17
CHA-10
Traits: Birthmark, Focused Mind
01 cler1 [Crusader:Angradd(War|Tactics)][Weapon Focus:Greataxe], Guided Hand, 1st
02 monk1 [Zen Archer][Perfect Shot][Precise Shot]
03 cler2 Quick Draw
04 cler3 WIS>18, 2nd
05 cler4 Channel Smite
06 cler5 [Martial Weapon Proficiency:Sap], 3rd
07 cler6 Crusader's Flurry
08 cler7 4th
09 cler8 [Legion's Blessing][Weapon Mastery], Weapon Focus:Longbow
10 cler9 5th
11 cler0 [Greater Weapon Focus:Greataxe], Quicken Spell
...the basic idea here is to Flurry with both longbow and greataxe (!!!) while stacking Clerical Vestments with Monk's Robes for decent AC. Since you have Quick Draw, you can use your axe to fell an adjacent opponent, then draw and fire the bow against a distance target as part of the same Flurry in the same round. At 9th, use Weapon Mastery to apply Weapon Specialization to whatever weapon you're using as you attack, or any other combat feat in the game which you have prerequisites for.
Weapons you are proficient with:
* longbow -- your ranged Flurry weapon
* greataxe -- your melee Flurry weapon
* sap -- melee nonlethal weapon w/o attack penalty
* simple -- (all)
* waraxe -- your d10 "@&%$...I'm grappled" one-handed dwarven racial weapon
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Crusader's Flurry only allows you to treat your deity's favored weapon as if it has the monk quality.
Zen Archer can't use flurry with anything but bows.Once you pick up ZA there's no turning back.
Under the same logic, since a normal monk can't Flurry with [<insert deity's awesome weapon>], no feat will help.
* * *
-- The whole point of a feat is to permit you to do something you otherwise could not.
If you want to go dwarven archer, Zen Archer Monk is the way to go.
If you want some healing, multiclass a level or two into something that either heals (Druid or cleric), or has a spell list and can use wands (Ranger).
Two levels of Ranger mixed with Zen Archer (take the bow style for ranger, obviously) can seriously boost your ZA survivability.
1st : Ranger (I'd go Guide or Urban) Point Blank Shot
2nd : Monk (Zen Archer) Precise Shot, Flurry, IUS
3rd : Ranger Far Shot
4th : Monk (Zen Archer) Combat Reflexes or Dodge
5th : Monk (Zen Archer) Zen Archery
By 5th level, you'll have most of your major archery feats all sewn up. You'll have an 18 or 20 wisdom to start, can use wands and scrolls of ranger spells (including gravity bow!), be able to threaten at all times, have about 29 + Con Bonus*5 HP (nothing to sneeze at), have a BAB of 4 (5 when flurrying), have weapon focus with your bow, and basically be terror on two feet. Handle the healing with wands and the heal skill (you'll have decent skills from the ranger and monk, and a lot won't overlap).
01 cler1 [Crusader:Angradd(War|Tactics)][Weapon Focus:Greataxe], Guided Hand, 1st
How are you getting guided hand at first level? The feat has Channel Smite as a prerequisite.
To the OP: out of curiosity, why are you set on playing a dwarf? The Cha penalty is gonna hurt with most of these builds. A human with a bonus feat would just be so much better. If you play a Cleric, the extra skill point humans get will also be very, very handy, since Clerics are skill-starved.
the divine hunter paladin archetype (from UC) would be a good fit for everything you're trying to do. i don't have time to give a full write up...
STR 12 DEX 16 CON 14(12+2)
INT 8 WIS 10(8+2) CHA 14(16-2)* put level bonuses here
skill- either Diplomacy or UMD (depending on what sorcerer has)
traits- Courageous and either Magical Knack or Dangerously Curious (if taking UMD)
feats:
1- point blank, precise shot (bonus)
3- rapid shot
5+ archery feats
you'll have to live to 2nd lvl before you can actually heal... get a breastplate as soon as possible, carry a dwarven waraxe (which you're proficient in and have the best BAB), take FCB in hp- by 3rd level you'll be a solid archer, a competent melee fighter, a passable tank, and an ok healer (that'll get better at 4th).
if you want i could try to post a build for the fighter later, but it sounds like you'd pretty much need your GM to let you take the Rich Parents trait for it to work at all
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Rich Parents SUCKS.
At tenth level, you'll understand how lame a measly 900gp is.
Picks somethings that lasts -- paladins get very few feats, so the traits have to pull extra weight; taking nothing that you won't get constant use out of.
-- You also don't want to commit major cash upgrading a strength bow before you'd bought a belt of giant strength anyway.