Whenever you are
attacked or are the target of a spell that requires an attack roll
It's not a melee touch attack to shake someone awake. That is not written in the rules. Shaking someone awake is a standard action and an application of the aid another action written in the rules-- specifically under deep slumber and sleep.
I've not yet come across a definition in the rulebook as to why cure light wounds is not played as melee touch attack, but because it isn't it does not fall under the same rule as the protection granted by mirror image.
I'm ignoring RAW/RAI: I hope it should affect it! Awakening shouldn't be too much of a problem like you described (non-moving etc) but the CLW should definately suffer from the Mirror Image. Touch attack: missed. Ah too bad! The cleric cries out in frustration as he tries to heal the ground while his companion wizard dies a few inches from his hand.
Best story! Even if the CLW succeeds it would make a better story imho.
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
I'm ignoring RAW/RAI: I hope it should affect it! Awakening shouldn't be too much of a problem like you described (non-moving etc) but the CLW should definately suffer from the Mirror Image. Touch attack: missed. Ah too bad! The cleric cries out in frustration as he tries to heal the ground while his companion wizard dies a few inches from his hand.
Best story! Even if the CLW succeeds it would make a better story imho.
Wonderful as this is, this question was asked in the rules forum. The OP wants to know the rules. Ignoring RAW/RAI seems kind of unhelpful, huh?
I'm going to quote the relevant line from the spell itself:
Whenever you are attacked or are the target of a spell that requires an attack roll, there is a possibility that the attack targets one of your images instead.
Shaking you awake is neither attacking you, or making you the target of a spell that requires an attack roll.
On the other hand, technically, CLW is a touch based spell. You ideally have to use a melee touch attack to use it, but its normally handwaved because the person you're touching isn't actively trying to avoid you.
I'd argue the images actually hinder this as well, so you'd have to roll the miss chance to heal someone with mirror image up.
Arguing otherwise would end up meaning that enemies can automatically target you as well while unconscious, since you're not actively avoiding them.
My interpretation of RAW.
| 2 people marked this as a favorite. |
I've not yet come across a definition in the rulebook as to why cure light wounds is not played as melee touch attack, but because it isn't it does not fall under the same rule as the protection granted by mirror image.
Touch Spells in Combat: "You can automatically touch one friend or use the spell on yourself, but to touch an opponent, you must succeed on an attack roll."
Mirror Image: "Whenever you are attacked or are the target of a spell that requires an attack roll, there is a possibility that the attack targets one of your images instead."
I stand corrected then. Thanks for the relevant text, Grick
There's an assumption that in combat you're actively trying to avoid being hit, which is why, if you stop to cast a spell, you get an AoO. Presumably you're not trying to dodge your ally's hand if you need healing. (Or your ally can reach more slowly and wave their hand through the images to find the real you.)
If you're unconscious, a coup-de-grace is also an auto hit, so I guess always hits as well.
the rules are vague.
there is no assumption in the rules of some one trying to touch a mirror imaged target that is not actively meeting or avoiding the contact.
rather than lawyer the rules I will just tell you how I would play it.
the cleric casts cure light wounds and attempts to touch the target.
roll a random chance to touch the target or an image.
should the cleric touch an image the image is broken but the CLW is not released. the cleric may attempt to touch the target again on the next round with another random roll.
If asked I would also allow the cleric to spend a full round action intentionally breaking all of the images regardless of number in order to effectively end the mirror image spell.
the rules are vague.
there is no assumption in the rules of some one trying to touch a mirror imaged target that is not actively meeting or avoiding the contact.rather than lawyer the rules I will just tell you how I would play it.
the cleric casts cure light wounds and attempts to touch the target.
roll a random chance to touch the target or an image.
should the cleric touch an image the image is broken but the CLW is not released. the cleric may attempt to touch the target again on the next round with another random roll.
If asked I would also allow the cleric to spend a full round action intentionally breaking all of the images regardless of number in order to effectively end the mirror image spell.
It's worth noting that this specifically contradicts the mirror image spell, which says that touching an image discharges a touch spell with no effect. That's not to say you shouldn't do it this way - it's a fairly realistic house rule, even if not one I'd use. I just want to point out that you're now making the spell discharge or not based on the caster's intent, rather than whether the recipient is willing.
If the Party cleric can just reach in and target the right wizard could a smart enemy using spellcraft decide to ready until the cleric goes to heal and hit the same one to negate his random chance?
For fluff, say the cleric went to heal the wizard, and was confused by the images. The cleric managed to find him by touch, though, and cast his spell. The wizard is solid, and just laying there, and the cleric isn't attacking, so no problem.
If the Party cleric can just reach in and target the right wizard could a smart enemy using spellcraft decide to ready until the cleric goes to heal and hit the same one to negate his random chance?
Under the 3.5 wording of Mirror Image, yes. Under the Pathfinder one, no. I'm not going to cite my reasoning here, because there's a 350+ post thread which covers it and I don't want to turn this into another one. The short form is: Even if you know exactly which one is the wizard, the wording on the spell doesn't care.
I'm not comfortable taking this as gospel. The obvious is if your ally is invisible. Evidently you can always touch your invisible allies, which doesn't make any sense. I'd personally apply a layered approach here. Invisibility changes the circumstance such that you can't use the Touch Spells In Combat text. While RAW would suggest that mirror image doesn't interfere with a friendly touch, I would expect that it's just like invisibility.
We're looking at an edge condition interaction between multiple rules, and it's the DM who has to adjudicate this. I can accept the idea that if you can see an ally and they're not avoiding you, touches are automatic. But if you can't see them, they're concealed by blur or similar, the automatic touch really, really shouldn't be.
Yes, RAW you can do it. But I wouldn't allow the argument at my table.
Touch Spells in Combat: "You can automatically touch one friend or use the spell on yourself, but to touch an opponent, you must succeed on an attack roll."
Wonderful as this is, this question was asked in the rules forum. The OP wants to know the rules. Ignoring RAW/RAI seems kind of unhelpful, huh?
True, I'm sorry! But you'll notice there's plenty of DM advice that doesn't come down to RAW/RAI. So I don't know about being unhelpful (posting wrong info would be much more unhelpful :p)
Good to see the rules are clear on this though, thanks Grick!
If you just assume that beneficial touch spells are received via epic high-five, all of these issues go away!
Alternatively, its easy to assume that the recipient is possibly actively receiving the beneficial spell; the cleric reaches out with a heal, the mirror imaged guy grabs his hand.
Unconcious allies still remain an issue though.
Is there an official answer anywhere about friendly spells on allies with displacement or mirror image? I have a sorcerer with with both spells on my list of spells known and my GM is giving me a hard time.
|
If the character has a constitution of 10 or less, it's a moot point because he's already dead.
2) The caster is hit by an area spell and drops to -10 hp. An ally wants to come over and cast Cure Light Wounds to heal and stabilize them. As CLW is a touch spell, do they have to contend with the images to succeed at this? How does this change if they want to use a Heal check to stabilize instead?Good gaming!
Unless the spell is Breath of Life instead of CLW.
Coup de Grace requires locating a vulnerable spot, not just touching.
For conscious characters, there's no issue - the target can easily meet the friend's hand. For unconscious the rules quoted above apply - if it takes an attack roll, it applies. There's nothing written that makes touching an unconscious ally an attack roll (although technically an unconscious foe would require one). If the GM decides it does, only then would mirror image or displacement apply.